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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Brian Sibley's Official Movie Guide to The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey (some spoiler pics)
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Aragorn22
The Shire


Oct 28 2012, 12:46am

Post #76 of 207 (1093 views)
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?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ummm.. Not quite the same thing and pretty dramatic but to each their own. I love the books and ill enjoy the movies I'm sure.


Malveth
Rivendell

Oct 28 2012, 12:46am

Post #77 of 207 (1129 views)
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Apologies.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was far off topic!

And let me go on record as a huge Brian Sibley fan. His book on Disney's "Snow White" is one of my favorite "coffee table" movie books.


Beutlin
Rivendell

Oct 28 2012, 1:10am

Post #78 of 207 (1125 views)
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"Desecrate"? "Corrupting The Hobbit"? [In reply to] Can't Post

Your quasi-religious tone about the book is very amusing.

Ceterum censeo montem artis magicae atrae esse delendum.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 1:33am

Post #79 of 207 (1065 views)
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I'll say I whole heartedly agree and leave it at that [In reply to] Can't Post

 I think the Hobbit will be noticeable in the films whats from the text and whats not from it, But I agree its a shame they feel they need to add so much to it to make it a success.


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Oct 28 2012, 1:35am)


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Oct 28 2012, 2:05am

Post #80 of 207 (1023 views)
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I'd be willing to bet... [In reply to] Can't Post

...this is our first look at Galadriel in Dol Guldur Wink

She looks terrifying - in a good way.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 2:17am

Post #81 of 207 (1032 views)
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Beutlin [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to Billy Connolly...


Carne
Tol Eressea

Oct 28 2012, 2:41am

Post #82 of 207 (1028 views)
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I'm curious about this as well [In reply to] Can't Post

I have the post-filming book and it's packed with behind the scenes info and photos. Doesn't sound like that's the case with this one Unsure


(This post was edited by Carne on Oct 28 2012, 2:42am)


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 7:47am

Post #83 of 207 (932 views)
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No, but I dare say I'll pick it up in the stores later... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the other book I have on order is the Weta Chronicles: Art and Design. Looking forward to that!


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 28 2012, 7:49am

Post #84 of 207 (941 views)
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Ahh. I ordered both! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be picking them up tomorrow. Hopefully that one has some more spoilers too!

Smile

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 28 2012, 7:50am

Post #85 of 207 (927 views)
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And hopefully [In reply to] Can't Post

You will scan lots of the spoilerific pages! Smile


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 7:57am

Post #86 of 207 (953 views)
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Sibley LotR Books [In reply to] Can't Post

I have both Brian's LotR Official Movie Guide and the LotR The Making of the Movie Trilogy, if those are the two you are meaning?

I would say the Hobbit Official Guide is on a par with the LotR version, obviously enough, in terms of depth and coverage. Very much just tickling the surface in a lot of cases. As I said, a lot of the pictures are the same official stllls we have seen over the past few months, with various photos of behind the scenes activity which correspond with what we have seen in the v-logs to date. There is a two-page spread of drawings by Alan & John... Each major role/actor is given a double-page feature, there's brief sections on wardrobe, wigs, prosthetics, and the techncal side, including 3D., etc as well as an article on how Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, how Peter came to take the decision to handle directing, his approach, etc. The usual stuff.

I agree that "The Making of" book is more comprehensive for "Rings" so hopefully there will be similar to come for "Hobbit"


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 8:40am

Post #87 of 207 (936 views)
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Contents [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a scan of the Contents page, if it's any help?

http://s574.photobucket.com/...t=Sibleycontents.jpg


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 8:47am

Post #88 of 207 (917 views)
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Cool! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, hopefully Jude Fisher will have got some exclusive new photos....Wink


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Victoria Monfort






Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 10:24am

Post #89 of 207 (922 views)
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Shelob, same here in the UK, beards, or at least a light beard (I have one myself), are getting more common :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 28 2012, 11:18am

Post #90 of 207 (867 views)
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This already happens [In reply to] Can't Post

There are lots of fan edits, spoofs, remixes, and redubbed or recaptioned scenes. As far as I am aware there have been no legal actions taken.

But that is rather beside the point. A better question would be that of if Jackson had sold the rights to a piece of his work and you had bought them would you be allowed to adapt it, respond to it and interpret it in your own way. The answer, of course, would be yes.

LR


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 28 2012, 11:36am

Post #91 of 207 (903 views)
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Yup, beards are in [In reply to] Can't Post

Which just proves that fashion eventually catches up with me...

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Malveth
Rivendell

Oct 28 2012, 1:41pm

Post #92 of 207 (851 views)
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Missing my point [In reply to] Can't Post

My point is not what I would have a right to do, but how Jackson would feel like about it. I don't think he'd be at all happy to see his artistic intentions warped into something completely different. Taking this into consideration, I would be far more respectful of anything I adapted that was not actually "public property", like folklore.

So please stop with the knee-jerk responses about PJ having "the rights"; I think I've made it clear that that's not what I'm talking about. As I said before, if the film companies ever broke up and the various properties were auctioned off, and some awful Canon Films like distributor got hold of LotRs or King Kong and butchered them up, Believe Me, Mr. Jackson would have something to say about it. This makes his bizarre wrecking-ball mentality toward Tolkien's works & clearly stated intentions truly puzzling to me. Do unto others, a wise man once said.

As for the rights, when they were sold, there was no way to make a film based on Tolkien's books, Tolkien thought it would come to nothing; it might have been "hasty" of him to ever part with them, but I don't think he could possibly have imagined the uses those rights would be put to, he certainly would not have approved of unhealthy junk-food tie ins, and a lot of plastic junk being sold under his name.

I keep hearing how these stories belong to "everyone" now. Apparently, they belong to everyone but the people who still read and care about them and are willing to defend them against the vandals of the film industry. I guess some "fans" are more equal than others in this brave new world.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 1:56pm

Post #93 of 207 (838 views)
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I think [In reply to] Can't Post

your spot on in your assessment Malveth.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Oct 28 2012, 6:35pm)


Malveth
Rivendell

Oct 28 2012, 2:11pm

Post #94 of 207 (858 views)
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Thanks... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's good to know I'm not alone.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 28 2012, 2:12pm

Post #95 of 207 (846 views)
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PJ didn't butcher up anything. [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTR was very close to the source material. Yes, they changed a bunch of stuff - was every of the changes necessary? No but changes are inevitable in a book to movie adaptation. It is still very recognizably Tolkien's story.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 28 2012, 2:13pm

Post #96 of 207 (829 views)
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I'm afraid I don't agree with almost any of this. [In reply to] Can't Post

In my experience guessing what other people might think in certain circumstances, particularly people we do not know and have never met is very far away from a matter of surety.

I am also sorry if you perceive my post as "knee jerk" and that you feel that you you have made it clear that you are not discussing rights. I have re read all of your posts and can find no reference to the fact you are not discussing rights. Perhaps you could point me towards where you made this clear?

It is, as you see here, extremely difficult to guess what someone else feels, even when one is in conversation with them, let alone in a hypothetical situation based on no interaction whatsoever.

As it goes, were I to guess, I would tend to think that the issue of rights should not be ignored and would tend me towards the logic that if someone sells them, then complex thought the emotions would no doubt be, they would have accepted the notion that the work was passing into others' hands for the purpose of response, interpretation and adaptation.

Aside from Carpenter's late quote* I think Tolkien's letters amply refute the idea that he believed adaptations of his work were impossible (and indeed the somewhat ungentlemanly suggestion that he knowingly sold something which he believed to be worthless).

I'm afraid your distinctions between types of fans simply do not hold water. Again this may illustrate how difficult it is to guess how others feel or what they think.

LR

*Which was that it was Carpenter's thought that Tolkien had no real expectation that LOTR could be filmed successfully (though this was some thirty years after Tolkien's death)


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Oct 28 2012, 2:19pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Oct 28 2012, 2:21pm

Post #97 of 207 (838 views)
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But there are some who think he did [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying he "butchered" LOTR I thought overall it was done well.

The Hobbit on the other hand is a completely different story. taking a 309 page book adding what material from the appendices that involves the Hobbit (roughly only 12 pages at most) so say taking 321 pages and making a trilogy out of them? Sounds like Peter Jackson is going to be making up A LOT of his own story to do this.Unsure

1 their either gonna be so drawn out that they are boring full of detail yes but boring

2 either gonna have so much extra material that it is no longer the Hobbit
or

3 the hobbit will be there but scattered throughout some larger tale, in the process taking the material of the Hobbit out of its meant context hence changing the story

My vote is on option 3 at this point which to me is a disappointment since I think the tale of Bilbo is excellent the way it is by Tolkien... (granted they would need to merely tweak a few things but it would work just fine IMO)


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Oct 28 2012, 2:25pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 28 2012, 2:28pm

Post #98 of 207 (821 views)
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Comparing the number of pages is very misleading. [In reply to] Can't Post

It has been pointed out multiple times, Hobbit is written very differently from LOTR, with much less detail. It doesn't mean not much is happening.

I would suggest seeing the movies before judging them.

Personally, i wouldn't want a movie that glosses over things and doesn't give characters the room to breath.


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Oct 28 2012, 2:33pm)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Oct 28 2012, 2:38pm

Post #99 of 207 (800 views)
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You're not alone - [In reply to] Can't Post

"I keep hearing how these stories belong to "everyone" now. Apparently, they belong to everyone but the people who still read and care about them and are willing to defend them against the vandals of the film industry. I guess some "fans" are more equal than others in this brave new world."

- Well said.

.



Malveth
Rivendell

Oct 28 2012, 2:40pm

Post #100 of 207 (814 views)
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To me it's about... [In reply to] Can't Post

...Respect.

Bird crap in Radagast's beard, giant bunny rabbits pulling sleighs, completely fabricated characters, turning lightly comical aspects into completely over-the-top comedy (ax-heads in skulls, eating flowers etc.) so on and so on.

None of this shows respect for the book. If it is so respected by Mr. Jackson, why change it all? If the book was so unsuitable for filming, why bother "adapting" it?

I think we all know the answer...

I don't think I'm being obscure. If Jackson underwent the same experience he would be howling in public about how his films were being changed and ruined without any power to stop it.

But Tolkien is safely dead. Mr. Jackson doesn't have to worry about his opinion or remarks. In short, Tolkien is not here to defend himself. Very nice for Mr. Jackson! Some of us feel that he should be reminded of the author's intentions, but as we're all a bunch of reactionary cranks & spoil-sports, there's always the Fan Police to get us to move along quietly with no protest.

"I feel very unhappy about Z[immerman's]...complete disrespect for the original (it seems willfully wrong without discernible technical reasons at nearly every point). But I need, and shall soon need very much indeed, money."
Jrr Toklien Letter 207

"I would ask them to make an effort of imagination sufficient to understand the irritation (and on occasion the resentment) of an author, who finds, increasingly as he proceeds, his work treated as it would seem carelessly in general, in places recklessly, and with no evident signs of any appreciation what it is all about...

"I do earnestly hope that in the assignment of actual speeches to the characters they will be represented as I have presented them; in style and sentiment. I should resent perversion of the characters (and do resent it...) even more than the spoiling of the plot and scenery."
Jrr Tolkien, Letter 210

I think his latest remarks on the subject were along the lines of "my works are unsuitable for dramatization in any form".

But I'll stop here, and agree to disagree, since I don't fancy getting banned for arguing, and this is a thread about the Sibley companion book, not the film itself.


(This post was edited by Malveth on Oct 28 2012, 2:41pm)

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