|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell
Oct 12 2012, 3:19pm
Post #1 of 44
(5456 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Galadriel and The Battle Of Dol Guldur
|
Can't Post
|
|
Hi Everyone, long time lurker but first time poster so here we go...
I'm interested to hear any theories/ideas on Galadriels involvement in the Battle Of Dol Guldur. Phillipa Boyens back at Comic Con mentioned this when asked about female involvement in the movie -
Philippa Boyens: Galadriel, as you all know, is the most powerful being in Middle Earth, at the time. And we wanted to go in there and tell that story. We worked with Cate. We talked to her about the role. She did a phenomenal job. I was… I had my total geek-out moment when she stepped up. And, the battle of Dol Guldur. Let me just say that. It’s extraordinary. So she immediately brings a very powerful feminine energy into the film, and one of the reasons… It’s interesting that you did that, because we did feel the weight of it being a “boys’ own” story.
I wonder how they'll show Galadriel's power at Dol Guldur as in Appendix B it says "They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed". But it's important to note that this passage is talking about the battle at the end of the third age and not the one that takes place in The Hobbit. Whether Peter Jackson decides to merge these two battles together is a possibility though.
Any thoughts/ suggestions?
|
|
|
Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Oct 12 2012, 3:37pm
Post #2 of 44
(3933 views)
Shortcut
|
Hi BornOutOfTheWest!
Wel my take is that what you putted about the cleansen of Dol Guldur at the end of the third age is gonna be used on The Hobbit, and the way is gona be shown I can´t stop think about Luthien throwing down the walls of Dol In Gauroth with some kind of spell, so, I imagine that Gandalf, Saruman and Elrond could do the dirty job and then let Galadriel finish the job with her power
I can not guarantee his safety - understood...
Nor will I be responsible for his fate - Doh!
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 12 2012, 3:42pm
Post #3 of 44
(4105 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I'd be happy for Galadriel to destroy Dol Guldur during The Hobbit
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Since this is our last return to Middle-earth, then I'd be happy for PJ to shuffle history a bit, and have Galadriel destroy Dol Guldur during the time of The Hobbit.
They never mentioned any of the events (the wars in the North) in the LOTR trilogy. I'd do anything to see Lady Galadriel bring it on.
Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!
|
|
|
dubulous
Rohan
Oct 12 2012, 4:02pm
Post #4 of 44
(3893 views)
Shortcut
|
It's one of the things I actually really look forward to seeing in one of these movies. I'd really like to see Galadriel in action, even if it means some creative interpretation of the timeline we know.
|
|
|
Vangalad
Lorien
Oct 12 2012, 4:29pm
Post #5 of 44
(3991 views)
Shortcut
|
|
This line...still not digging it
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Galadriel, as you all know, is the most powerful being in Middle Earth, at the time.
As we all know?really?
Nevermind, probably she wanted to say ''...Galadriel, one of the most powerful beings...''
Oh, dear Philippa, forgive and forget 
So, Galadriel's part in dol guldur's battle will be prominent I see. Not bad, not bad at all! Cate's Galadriel is a true beaty to behold and judging from Philippa's passionate words about her part ,we should expect to see something no less than spectacular in this battle ( hopefully not something extreme though).
We may witness a more 'magic' battle, considering the full(?) presence of the white council's members but not ala harry potter style. The three rings will be there, so I wouldn't be surprised to see their owners use their powers in some way...
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
|
|
|
Groppe
The Shire
Oct 12 2012, 4:49pm
Post #6 of 44
(3782 views)
Shortcut
|
"The sun will go on rising and setting, whether I fail Geometry or not."
|
|
|
Vangalad
Lorien
Oct 12 2012, 5:28pm
Post #8 of 44
(3832 views)
Shortcut
|
The hobbit speculation was on it's peak at that time during comic-con, the press, the fans...and a geek like Philippa could not have been restrained  .
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 12 2012, 6:17pm
Post #10 of 44
(3757 views)
Shortcut
|
It's a shame they didn't expand on Legolas' comment. Well worth more of a mention. The War of the Ring wasn't *just* about the Fellowship.
Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!
|
|
|
Beren0nehanded
Bree
Oct 12 2012, 6:23pm
Post #11 of 44
(3731 views)
Shortcut
|
So much material!
But like you said, since this is the last we'll see of ME on the big screen, I too wouldn't mind Galadriel doing what she does to Dol Guldur at the end of the War of the Ring this time around in the movies even if it is off chronologically!
Don't be hasty.
|
|
|
Hanzkaz
Rohan
Oct 12 2012, 7:35pm
Post #12 of 44
(3766 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I wouldn't assume that the Hobbit Trilogy (spoilers) -
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
- is the last we'll see of Middle-Earth. Middle-Earth is quite the money-maker.
Depending on how well the 'invented' parts of the Hobbit Trilogy (Dol Guldur, White Council, etc ) are received by audiences, they just may decide to do a War in the North movie (or two).
Quite a few characters in the Hobbit (including those only in the movie version) survive until time of the War of the Ring. I would expect that a number of these characters will gain a certain amount of popularity, so the studios just may decide to jump at the chance to bring them back in a War of the Ring era film.
I would assume that a War in the North movie storyline would differ somewhat from what's written in the LOTR Appendices.
Returning characters could include:
- Thranduil.
- Celeborn.
- Galadriel.
- Dain Ironfoot.
- The surviving members of Thorin's company.
- Radagast.
- (Old) King Bain (as well as his son Brand. There could be a Bard II but film makers sometimes shy away from using characters with identical names.).
- Original Beorn (as opposed to his descendant Grimbeorn). Being a supernatural being, the shapeshifter could be assumed to have a longer lifespan than usual. (I've got this image of a grizzled old bear leading a group of others (most likely his descendants) in an ambush against Sauron's minions).
- Tauriel.
Obviously, in Tolkien's original writings, some of these characters are dead (and may actually be killed off in the movie Trilogy). But just as the opportunity was taken to bring back Galadriel, Legolas and Saruman, they could do the same with the Hobbit cast..
(Come to think of it, they can show the actual debut of the 'true' White Wizard. I wouldn't put it past Galadriel to send her Elves to retrieve Gandalf's corpse at some point, and all of a sudden, in the middle of some dramatic moment, he wakes up. That new staff of his looks quite Elven in design to me. Perhaps that's the Lady of Lórien's gift to the last member of the Fellowship of the Ring to visit her realm. That's something for 'The War in the North - Extended Edition', I think.).
.
(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Oct 12 2012, 7:38pm)
|
|
|
painjoiker
Grey Havens
Oct 12 2012, 10:26pm
Post #13 of 44
(3661 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think that there will be more as well,
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
but I think it won't be Jackson directed!
Jackson may produce and maybe write some films, but he won't direct them, I am sure of this.
After The Hobbit, Jackson has two Tintin movies to direct and then the Dam Busters, and after that he got Bad Taste 2, and he probably has some more surprises (King Kong 2?)
Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Oct 12 2012, 11:23pm
Post #14 of 44
(3682 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Having our cake and eating it too...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Who is to say that Galadriel can't destroy Dol Guldur in the timeframe of The Hobbit only to see the forces of Sauron rebuild it in time for the War of the Ring? A Noldo-woman's work is never done!
'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 12 2012, 11:24pm)
|
|
|
Estel78
Tol Eressea
Oct 12 2012, 11:44pm
Post #15 of 44
(3689 views)
Shortcut
|
|
How to show the power of wizards and elves without making it look tacky?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
PJ himself said he doesn't like the flashy magic stuff. I'm really curious how they will portrait the Dol Guldur battle.
|
|
|
dubulous
Rohan
Oct 13 2012, 5:38am
Post #17 of 44
(3609 views)
Shortcut
|
If they do it (which I really, really hope they will) it'll be interesting to see how they do it. There is that risk of the magic looking tacky, but obviously Galadriel can't just start hacking at the walls with a sledge hammer either.
Maybe she'll just walk up to the gates and say: "Dol Guldur, your walls are broken." 
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 13 2012, 9:19am
Post #18 of 44
(3570 views)
Shortcut
|
I could just about cope with compressing the two Battles of Dol Guldur (2941 and 3019) if the pay-off is seeing Galadriel the super-Noldo in action. What makes me hesitate though is what it means for the depiction of Sauron. In Middle-earth (including in Jackson's re-imagining of it), Sauron is the arch-villain / Dark Lord etc. Having the events of Dol Guldur in 2941 come across as a massive defeat, with Sauron in retreat (that bit did happen then) and his base for the last 1800 years destroyed undermines the 'Dark Lord' narrative. Sure, Sauron wasn't invincible (indeed, he was uniquely vulnerable) but if a film-goer is supposed to fear for the fate of Middle-earth in the LotR film trilogy then depicting Sauron in TH trilogy as a local wrangler down in Dol Guldur who can be crushed by the White Council has the potential to undercut that.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 13 2012, 9:55am
Post #19 of 44
(3551 views)
Shortcut
|
And there might be an epilogue of sorts - leftovers from the bridge film. I might not necessarily like the idea, but the epilogue could cover these events. Though really, it deserves it's own film (or to have been shown/spoken of in ROTK).
Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!
|
|
|
DanielLB
Immortal
Oct 13 2012, 10:09am
Post #20 of 44
(3572 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I don't want flashy power magic either
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
And it could probably be avoided quite easily.
Ignoring Galadriel for a second, Elrond and Gandalf would fight with their swords. We've seen them both do it in the trilogy, so there would be no need to have magic shooting out of their fingers and toes. I assume they will battle whoever's there - orcs, wargs, mewlips, wights, Bombadil and even possibly Ringwraiths.
Adding Galadriel into the battle is a bit of an unknown. She could fight with a sword, but I can't see it happening. I don't know about you, but when I think of Lady Galadriel at Dol Guldur, this image comes into my head.
So, while Elrond and Gandalf are giving it all they've got, Galadriel could enter Dol Guldur, conjure up some spell (perhaps right in front of the Necromancer), cleansing it? The Necromancer flees, and Galadriel plants an Elanor flower?
Something like that?
Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!
|
|
|
irodino
Bree
Oct 13 2012, 4:34pm
Post #21 of 44
(3472 views)
Shortcut
|
|
And yet PJ did show a cheesy fireball
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
..in ROTK EE. It really is mindboggling why he would show the leader of the Istari shooting a third grade non-AoE D&D fireball at the wizard who not only wears the Great Ring of Fire, but also has fire as one of his specialties, next to lightning. It really ruins a great scene. I seriously hope that side of PJ will not resurface in the Hobbit movies.. he did pretty well otherwise, showing restraint in showing cheap magic spells.
"The past tempts us, the present confuses us, and the future frightens us. And our lives slip away, moment by moment, lost in that terrible in-between."
|
|
|
Elthir
Grey Havens
Oct 13 2012, 11:09pm
Post #22 of 44
(3394 views)
Shortcut
|
And it [flashy power magic] could probably be avoided quite easily.
It could be avoided easily, I agree. But I think they hired Peter Jackson, so subtle is out
Galadriel will further her connection to the Dwarrows by wielding the long lost magic dwarf-axe known in Westron as Blundersome (or in the Neo-dwarvish tongue krakaskul ortoo).
She will set some heads flying, and get a tattoo to mark the kills.
(This post was edited by Elthir on Oct 13 2012, 11:13pm)
|
|
|
Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens
Oct 13 2012, 11:53pm
Post #23 of 44
(3348 views)
Shortcut
|
About the depiction of magic in LOTR that prompts you to label it unsubtle?
LR
|
|
|
Tim
Tol Eressea
Oct 14 2012, 3:50am
Post #25 of 44
(3336 views)
Shortcut
|
King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim?
King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.
Tim: Quite.
|
|
|
Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Oct 14 2012, 4:09am
Post #26 of 44
(3418 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think Elthir is simply commenting on
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
How unsubtle Peter Jackson is in general. And as far as I can tell, there is near unanimous agreement about that, no matter if you love him or not.
Our differences usually lie in our tolerance for such a style.
|
|
|
Elthir
Grey Havens
Oct 14 2012, 4:55am
Post #27 of 44
(3399 views)
Shortcut
|
... that's it exactly.
|
|
|
Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens
Oct 14 2012, 8:41am
Post #28 of 44
(3363 views)
Shortcut
|
It is certainly an oft repeated phrase but my own impression is that is predominantly by a subset of posters, and scarcely near unanimous at all.
It will be interesting to explore - especially if we have similar cases to this, where I presume there isn't actually a perception of a lack of subtlety surrounding the portrayal of magic.
LR
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 14 2012, 9:31am
Post #30 of 44
(3350 views)
Shortcut
|
Not that. Not again.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
Elthir
Grey Havens
Oct 14 2012, 7:46pm
Post #31 of 44
(3288 views)
Shortcut
|
... one can add me to the: Jackson, in general, is 'not' subtle list; however long or short such a list might be at the moment.
But if we have a poll as to whether he is subtle or un, I suggest that one of the choices be C) 'about as subtle as an axe in the head' because that's a good tie to the new films in my opinion, subtle or not.
|
|
|
AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Oct 15 2012, 3:23am
Post #32 of 44
(3293 views)
Shortcut
|
|
For Galadriel to seem like the most potent force of magic imaginable whilst poor
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
old Gandalf and even Saruman are made to look like rank amateurs by comparison . . . ahhh, I would rather not see that. And it could probably be avoided quite easily. Ignoring Galadriel for a second, Elrond and Gandalf would fight with their swords. We've seen them both do it in the trilogy, so there would be no need to have magic shooting out of their fingers and toes. I assume they will battle whoever's there - orcs, wargs, mewlips, wights, Bombadil and even possibly Ringwraiths. Adding Galadriel into the battle is a bit of an unknown. She could fight with a sword, but I can't see it happening. I don't know about you, but when I think of Lady Galadriel at Dol Guldur, this image comes into my head. So, while Elrond and Gandalf are giving it all they've got, Galadriel could enter Dol Guldur, conjure up some spell (perhaps right in front of the Necromancer), cleansing it? The Necromancer flees, and Galadriel plants an Elanor flower? Something like that?
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
|
|
|
Fardragon
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 6:41am
Post #33 of 44
(3282 views)
Shortcut
|
and very constrained in what they can do.
Galadriel is under no such restriction.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 8:01am
Post #35 of 44
(3263 views)
Shortcut
|
|
the quote, and Galadriel as warrior
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"...Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lórien over Anduin in many boats. They took Dol Guldur, and Galadriel threw down its walls and laid bare its pits, and the forest was cleansed." (LotR, App. B).
Joint effort in the war by Celeborn & Galadriel, and Galadriel cleans up the pollution. Regarding actual combat, in one of his last notes on the history of this pair, Tolkien describes Galadriel and Celeborn fightng heroically to defend Alqualondë when Fëanor and his crusaders turn up (Unfinished Tales, "History of Galadriel & Celeborn"). This implies that Galadriel could swing a sword or use a bow.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
Fardragon
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 9:01am
Post #36 of 44
(3253 views)
Shortcut
|
This implies that Galadriel could swing a sword or use a bow.
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 9:32am
Post #37 of 44
(3265 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The Galadriel / Lúthien & Dol Guldur / Tol-in-Gaurhoth parallel
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I reckon Galadriel's display of power at Dol Guldur was more along the lines of Lúthien bringing the walls of Tol-in-Gaurhoth down (The Sil, 'Of Beren & Lúthien'):
"Then Lúthien stood upon the bridge, and declared her power: and the spell was loosed that bound stone to stone, and the gates were thrown down, and the walls opened, and the pits laid bare..."
Tolkien used the same language to describe Galadriel's feat - notice the recycling: "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits" (Galadriel) / "the gates were thrown down, and the walls opened, and the pits laid bare" (Lúthien).
No need for fireballs, or summoning Elementals or Djinns or drolems! Jackson could still shoot a cataclysmic CGI scene and still keep it in the legendarium, and to better visual effect.
Regarding fireballs at the Battle of Alqualondë, if that was the case it would have been one big magic festival! Galadriel and Fëanor and Fingolfin using fireballs, Olwë and the Teleri using water magic etc.
Alternatively, we have these passages describing the Kinslaying (The Sil, 'Of the Flight of the Noldor')
"...swords were drawn, and a bitter fight was fought upon the ships"
"and the Teleri had less strength, and were armed for the most part but with with slender bows."
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
Joe20
Lorien
Oct 15 2012, 9:46am
Post #38 of 44
(3248 views)
Shortcut
|
I'm not really a fan of Harry Potter, but I got dragged into watching one of them the other day, and while reading through the thread a section of the film came to mind. At 2:21 in this clip, the way Voldemort builds up the power and then unleashing it to such destructive effect, could perhaps work well with Galadriel where she "threw down its walls and laid bare its pits". Its not too outlandish and 'magicy', and can fit quite nicely into the tone of the films. (There is a bit of a simmilar effect during the prolouge of the Fellowship of the ring with the last alliance as Sauron is defeated.)
Thoughts?
|
|
|
Fardragon
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 11:18am
Post #39 of 44
(3204 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yeah, I think this is most likely.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
(Fireball is a joke) - double meaning intentional
Galadriel casts Earthquake instead!
A Far Dragon is the best kind...
|
|
|
Elthir
Grey Havens
Oct 15 2012, 2:16pm
Post #41 of 44
(3197 views)
Shortcut
|
Regarding actual combat, in one of his last notes on the history of this pair, Tolkien describes Galadriel and Celeborn fightng heroically to defend Alqualondë when Fëanor and his crusaders turn up (Unfinished Tales, "History of Galadriel & Celeborn"). This implies that Galadriel could swing a sword or use a bow.
This is true. Although I find something interesting about this revision, noting first that in this late version Galadriel is not part of the Noldorin Rebellion but just happens to be at Swanhaven when Feanor attacks (it might also be noted that Tolkien already had Galadriel defending Swanhaven, when she was 'still' in the Rebellion of the Noldor).
What I find interesting is that in this very latest version Tolkien appears to have desired to remove Galadriel from the Rebellion because he wants to make her 'unstained' at this point (probably forgetting that he had already published that she was a leader in the Rebellion in any case). And the so called 'revision' is with respect to Galadriel's initial entrance into the tale of the Elder Days in the early 1950s, where she takes no part in the battle of Swanhaven, as the children of Finarfin simply arrive too late to do anything (the 1977 Silmarillion of course makes no mention of Galadriel defending Swanhaven).
This ultimately means that Tolkien's 'unstained' Galadriel is now going to fight, and not against orcs or any other monsters of Morgoth, but against other Elves.
Did Galadriel in fact slay Elves; or was her heroic 'fight' of a purely defensive nature?
However Tolkien saw Galadriel's defense he is also possibly thinking, at least in some measure here, of the Virgin Mary (considering his late letter to Lord Halsbury on making Galadriel unstained, if I recall correctly), and I sometimes wonder if he was actually putting Elven blood on Galadriel's hands here, as it would seem, I admit, even in the defense of the Teleri.
OK it's not really about the film. It's just my annoying aside. Wait... there's a film!?
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 4:15pm
Post #42 of 44
(3186 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Galadriel the 'unstained' defender
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I suppose it's possible to mount a heroic defence without killing anybody but it seems unlikley - the Noldorin rebels wanted the ships of the Teleri and the accounts of the Kinslaying are descriptive enough to indicate that blood was shed during the standoff. If Galadriel resisted the seizures, she may well have had to kill.
I agree though, that reconciling this with the later, 'unstained' version of Galadriel is tricky (the 1973 Lord Halsbury correspondence indeed, Letter 353 - nice citation Elthir!). In that letter, Tolkien states that "she [Galadriel] had committed no evil deeds". Sometimes Tolkien's revisions just can't be squared but perhaps in this case we could take it to mean that "evil deeds" refer to the transgression of those Noldor who not only attacked Alqualondë but also failed to repent once the Prophecy of the North was handed down by Mandos. Finarfin repented and returned to Valinor. Galadriel presumably never had the chance to do so (in this version she and Celebron sailed separately and would never have encountered Mandos).
An aside, Galadriel, as described in The Grey Annals (back to the 1950s), was very coy when questioned by Melian about what took place back in Valinor and despite being pressed would not speak of the Kinslaying, simply hinting a dark deeds. Not exactly the behaviour of someone 'unstained'! Over the decades Tolkien went on quite a journey with this character.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
Elthir
Grey Havens
Oct 15 2012, 8:49pm
Post #43 of 44
(3184 views)
Shortcut
|
In that letter, Tolkien states that "she [Galadriel] had committed no evil deeds". Sometimes Tolkien's revisions just can't be squared but perhaps in this case we could take it to mean that "evil deeds" refer to the transgression of those Noldor who not only attacked Alqualondë but also failed to repent once the Prophecy of the North was handed down by Mandos. Finarfin repented and returned to Valinor. Galadriel presumably never had the chance to do so (in this version she and Celebron sailed separately and would never have encountered Mandos).
Yes I think Tolkien was focusing on these things and her [now former] part in the Rebellion in general (again, seemingly forgetting what he had published in The Road Goes Ever On). Regarding my earlier mention of Mary however, I just checked letters and the Virgin Mary comparison is referenced in earlier letters, but not actually in the late Lord Halsbury letter itself (the one you noted for me), and in the latest reference to Mary (in letters), Galadriel was still a leader in the Rebellion in Tolkien's mind.
I wonder if Mary along with Galadriel had come up when Tolkien and Lord Halsbury talked (just before Tolkien's letter), but maybe that will never be known.
An aside, Galadriel, as described in The Grey Annals (back to the 1950s), was very coy when questioned by Melian about what took place back in Valinor and despite being pressed would not speak of the Kinslaying, simply hinting a dark deeds. Not exactly the behaviour of someone 'unstained'! Over the decades Tolkien went on quite a journey with this character.
I rather like the early 1950s scenario (in the 1977 Silmarillion), and not that you said otherwise, but even though Galadriel did not want to speak of certain things to Melian, at this point it seems Tolkien imagined that she had yet no part in the Kinslaying. I say that because not only did the earlier Silmarillion of the mid to later 1930s (again if I recall correctly) note that Finrod (Finarfin's) children had not taken part in this deed (Galadriel not being one of his children yet, in any case), but in the later text Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn, Finarfin's children are noted as having had no part in the Kinslaying.
If memory serves this text is later than that which describes Galadriel and Melian's speech together, somewhat after the early 1950s anyway.
(This post was edited by Elthir on Oct 15 2012, 8:59pm)
|
|
|
Felagund
Rohan
Oct 15 2012, 10:15pm
Post #44 of 44
(3336 views)
Shortcut
|
Great knowledge of the source material Elthir - hope to see you in the Reading Room too!
Felagund
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
|
|
gandalfpinecones.jpg
