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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Can you name all the movie dwarves?
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 28 2012, 4:25pm

Post #51 of 79 (800 views)
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Noone said have 13 anonymous dudes [In reply to] Can't Post

As has been mentioned, Thorin and Balin would need to be fully fleshed out.

However, the others really do not need much to work on film. The Ox-Bow incident, a classic American western with a massive ensemble cast that is essentially "on the road," pulled it off wonderfully, with just short sketches of each of the secondary characters.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 28 2012, 4:35pm

Post #52 of 79 (784 views)
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Naming [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure at this point I can name them all. It all helps with the looks being different and I'd say at worst I'd mess up a couple. It's great reading the hobbit now placing these looks into it, and see how for me it is again the cherry on top of the world Tolkien created.



There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 28 2012, 7:32pm

Post #53 of 79 (766 views)
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of course [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just replying to Elenorflower's post specifically about "generic" dwarves.

I agree with you, I really don't think most of the dwarves will receive fully fleshed background treatments either besides Thorin and Balin and most likely Fili and Kili (maybe even Bofur). I am glad however they are taking the time (so it seems) that they are least giving a bit of texture so that we can tell them all apart.

The Ox-bow Incident looks like a lot of fun, what a cast! I'll check it out.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 8:00pm

Post #54 of 79 (755 views)
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maybe you are right [In reply to] Can't Post

and only Thorin, Balin, fili, Kili and Bofur get detailed backstories, I suppose they could recount their past lives during quiet moments round a camp fire or in Thranduils prison or even in Beorns Hall. I imagine the important dwarves would get to tell their tale in Rivendell when Thorin will tell Bilbo the tragic outcome of Smaug ousting his relatives and brother Dwarves from Erebor.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 28 2012, 8:07pm

Post #55 of 79 (761 views)
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I think we should at least learn some details about all the Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

The book works fine the way it is. However, if we have a film about a company of 15 characters, in which we only learn about the stories of 5 or 6 of the Dwarves, it wouldn't work - it wouldn't be accepted by the general audience. They all need something to do. We need to learn about them all. That's the way I see it, anyway.

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Sep 28 2012, 8:12pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 28 2012, 8:09pm

Post #56 of 79 (746 views)
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Are you afeared that Bilbo is such a weak character [In reply to] Can't Post

That he can only shine in the absence of other rounded characters?

I think he will stand up perfectly well myself and have no particular reason to imagine, on the evidence so far, that Bilbo will not remain centre stage.

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Sep 28 2012, 8:10pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 28 2012, 8:25pm

Post #57 of 79 (717 views)
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Thought this was referring to matching names with cast...but yeah, have LONG been able to name the Dwarves from the book. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


elostirion74
Rohan

Sep 28 2012, 9:03pm

Post #58 of 79 (731 views)
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stories for all isnīt essential, but you can still make most of the dwarves stand out [In reply to] Can't Post

Trying to make arcs and backstories for so many characters would just make the story confusing and muddled. But you can still distinguish most of the dwarves by their behaviour and how they react in specific circumstances, so in that respect I agree that most of the dwarves need something to do.

It doesnīt have to be much though. If Gloin several times is shown as particularly sceptical and slightly grumpy, itīs enough to distinguish him from the others.

If Dori is assigned the task of helping and carrying Bilbo in several situations, itīs enough to distinguish him.

Other dwarves can be distinguished by being fierce fighters, being assigned specific tasks or having a particular talent.

Bombur will be singled out because of his weight and being teased by the other dwarves for it, possibly heīll grumbling about his treatment as well.

You donīt really need to have stories about each dwarf as long as they have a few distinguishable characteristics in their ways of interacting with the others in the company.


elostirion74
Rohan

Sep 28 2012, 9:14pm

Post #59 of 79 (708 views)
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well, nearly all [In reply to] Can't Post

I tend to mix up Dwalin and Oin, but apart from these two the others look so clearly different from each other that itīs not difficult to name them.

Many casual moviegoers would probably not be so concerned about remembering the names of all the dwarves. I expect that most of the so-called "general audience" will focus on the most prominent dwarves in the company (Thorin, Balin, Fili and Kili and Bombur and perhaps Gloin because he looks similar to Gimli).


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 9:23pm

Post #60 of 79 (768 views)
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Nope L.R I am not afeared, [In reply to] Can't Post

 I prefer Tolkiens version, ie its Bilbos story so he should be the focus without distracting Axe stories, after all we only have 2 hours to tell Bilbos story, I am not very interested in Bofurs domestic arrangements.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Sep 28 2012, 9:25pm)


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 28 2012, 9:36pm

Post #61 of 79 (698 views)
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this [In reply to] Can't Post

exactly, I feel like PJ will nail their characters not so much focusing on "arcs" per say, but in general, character consistency. That's the great thing about film, you can reveal character through body language and visual treatment.

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 28 2012, 9:44pm

Post #62 of 79 (690 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't mean to suggest flashbacks for everyone, but it's just as important to give each character well ... characterisation. And there's plenty ways of achieving this, like you say.

It's Bilbo's story, that also involves 13 Dwarves. They can't be ignored.

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Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 10:00pm

Post #63 of 79 (683 views)
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I often wonder [In reply to] Can't Post

why Tolkien chose to have quite so many Dwarves, I mean was there a reason? does anyone know? I could imagine 6 or 7, but 13 is a lot. specially as most of them in the story were largely silent.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 28 2012, 10:03pm

Post #64 of 79 (685 views)
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There had to be 13 Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

so that Bilbo was the lucky 14th Wink

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TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Sep 28 2012, 10:05pm

Post #65 of 79 (678 views)
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Cheers! [In reply to] Can't Post

It was starting to bother me how often I would get them mixed up.

I honestly think we're pretty lucky that we managed to get all 13 dwarves despite how very few of them are actually fleshed out characters. I could easily see the number of dwarves possibly being cut in half if someone else was at the helm, but thankfully this isn't the case and we're receiving a bakers' dozen. Smile

Yes, my username is terrible.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 28 2012, 11:06pm

Post #66 of 79 (677 views)
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I am confused as to why [In reply to] Can't Post

Without recourse to actual experience we think that a character (Bilbo) cannot be the focus whilst also having other supporting characters in the piece. I don't particularly recall feeling similarly distracted from Frodo by the other members of the fellowship having a characterisation. Or in any other film for that matter. I suppose it depends how easily distracted one is, mind you.

I have no idea what you mean by "2 hours to tell Bilbo's story"

LR


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 11:17pm

Post #67 of 79 (670 views)
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well to be fair, [In reply to] Can't Post

in Lotr there were only 9, 4 Hobbits, 2 men, 1 wizard, 1 Elf, 1 Dwarf. They were easy to remember. 13 Dwarves is a lotto Dwarvage. How many films have you seen with 15 main characters? all at once.


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Sep 28 2012, 11:31pm

Post #68 of 79 (737 views)
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Bilbo! Allow me to introduce... [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili (Dean O'Gorman), Kili (Aidan Turner),
Oin (John Callen), Gloin (Peter Hambleton),
Balin (Ken Stott), Dwalin (Graham McTavish),
Bifur (William Kircher), Bofur (James Nesbitt), Bombur (Stephen Hunter),
Dori (Mark Hadlow), Nori (Jed Brophy), Ori (Adam Brown),
and the leader of our company...Thorin Oakenshield (Richard Armitage).
Did it! Cool


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 28 2012, 11:31pm

Post #69 of 79 (680 views)
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I don't think there will be 15 main characters [In reply to] Can't Post

But there can happily be 15 characters. I have seen lots of films with 15 characters in - sometimes even more.

I am also a bit puzzled that you found the distinctive characteristics of the fellowship helpful as they were easy to remember but seem to be saying that giving distinctive characteristics to the company here is a bad idea, despite the fact that there is even more to remember

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Sep 28 2012, 11:33pm)


elostirion74
Rohan

Sep 29 2012, 12:13am

Post #70 of 79 (680 views)
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I agree that it wonīt be difficult to have 15 characters [In reply to] Can't Post

 especially since itīs not necessary to give every character a story, just some distinguishing characteristics.

Itīs also easy to forget that even though there are a lot of dwarves, the general audience will in the course of the three films probably focus more on characters like Gandalf, The Elvenking and his court, Bard, Smaug etc. than the minor dwarves. (Iīm not mentioning Bilbo here, since itīs a given that heīs the main character). I think of the minor dwarves more as a fun and colourful addition to the cast of principal characters centered around Bilbo. They will be noticeable and distinguishable, but not distracting.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 29 2012, 12:56pm

Post #71 of 79 (615 views)
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well I wouldnt want you [In reply to] Can't Post

to be puzzled. So I will reiterate. The only other time I have seen 15 or more characters with substantial backstories, prominence and character arcs is with a tv soap, or a long series like Lost. So if the first film is roughly about 2 hours 30 minutes long, if they spend a lot of that time setting up the Dwarves characters/backstories, that is time that I personally would prefer to see dedicated to Bilbo and Thorin, Balin and Gandalf, and maybe Kili and Fili at a stretch. Is that clearer? perhaps I didnt explain myself very well before?


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 29 2012, 1:25pm

Post #72 of 79 (624 views)
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Well no I don't think it is awfully clear. [In reply to] Can't Post

What you are arguing for. At points you point out the ridiculousness of diverging from the anonimity of the dwarves in the text and question the need for individuality, whilst at others you simply suggest the goldilocks argument that a quarter of the film(s) shouldn't be spent creating overly elaborate back stories (with which I don't think anyone would disagree).

A happy medium is of course perfectly possible between the two, where the characters in a large ensemble are individualised, rounded and memorable without drawing away from the central themese and plot.

Quite a few films such as the Poseidon Adventure, Towering Inferno, Sin City, Gosford Park, The Thin Red Line etc etc all do a reasonably happy job in this space.

LR


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 29 2012, 3:12pm

Post #73 of 79 (608 views)
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I am puzzled [In reply to] Can't Post

by your reply. Laugh


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 29 2012, 3:13pm

Post #74 of 79 (594 views)
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Apologies - how so? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 29 2012, 3:15pm

Post #75 of 79 (598 views)
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Number of characters [In reply to] Can't Post

Poseidon Adventure and Towering Inferno the number of characters to keep track of diminishes rapidly as the film progresses.

Gosford Park is all character - nothing actually happens.

I haven't seen the other films you mention.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...

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