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Spaldron
Rivendell
Sep 8 2012, 7:53pm
Post #1 of 57
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Aragorn's American Accent.
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So does anyone notice Viggo's alternating accent during FOTR? Its especially prominent during the early scenes (pre-Moria). It seems to slip between the traditional archaic English that is LOTR standard and his own American twang.
It can be heard clearly during the Prancing Pony scenes and on Weathertop.
This is possibly down to his late arrival on set and not having much time to learn the accent but surely this could've been amended during the ADR sessions (which Jackson used prominently)?
Am I the only one who hears it?
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geordie
Tol Eressea
Sep 8 2012, 7:59pm
Post #2 of 57
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I didn't pay it that much attention -
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what with Astin and Wood an' all, there were many American accents in the movies.
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FlyingSerkis
Rivendell
Sep 8 2012, 8:00pm
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I certainly notice his accent being a bit funny up to Rivendell
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It doesn't sound noticeably American to me, just a bit odd!
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
Sep 8 2012, 8:05pm
Post #4 of 57
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I think the accent generally stayed consistent throughout the films; it's just a bit higher at times
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Patty
Immortal
Sep 8 2012, 8:14pm
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The movie drew me in so much I didn't even notice.
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Fortunately for me.
Permanent address: Into the West
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 8 2012, 8:34pm
Post #6 of 57
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I hear it particularly on "They are the Nazgul...neither living nor dead", "that is a rare gift", and "Rivendell, Master Gamgee", the last of which is just odd to my ear.
It seemed to be 'fixed' pretty quickly.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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DanielLB
Immortal
Sep 8 2012, 9:27pm
Post #7 of 57
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[.] and "Rivendell, Master Gamgee", the last of which is just odd to my ear.
It seemed to be 'fixed' pretty quickly.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 9 2012, 12:46am
Post #8 of 57
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But not quite English either.
A Westron accent, perhaps?
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 9 2012, 9:47am
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perhaps we could ascribe it to Viggo's apparently zealous method acting. I think we have a simple case of accent slippage. 
Unless, of course, they were attempting
You began to talk to me like the Bree-folk, but your voice has changed 
Thank goodness they didn't try that. We could have ended up with dodgy Somerset accent meets Eddie Boone.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 9 2012, 9:52am
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Perhaps the dialect coaches had been on the loose...
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after a good 10 minutes of being made to pronounce 'Rivendell', I can imagine that anything one tries will sound odd. 
Seriously though, that was the only one that ever bothered me. Sadly, it pulled me out of the story for a moment. It is however, a much less heinous offence than Sam's 'the one place we're tryna get to'.
But I'll leave that there. 
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
(This post was edited by Nightingale on Sep 9 2012, 9:56am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 9 2012, 7:27pm
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I have lived most of my life in the USA
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And have never heard an accent like that.
It's sort of a flattened English accent, with an American undertone, that doesn't really exist anywhere...
In short, its a badly done English accent by an American actor.
I am happy that the Hobbit features primarily English actors. Wood and Astin's accents were atrocious, and I never could accept them as being a part of Middle Earth.
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Loresilme
Valinor
Sep 9 2012, 9:10pm
Post #14 of 57
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upon which viewing did you notice this? First time? Second, third, etc...?
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
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Sep 9 2012, 10:16pm
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That's the one place I noticed Sean Astin's accent had slipped.
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'the one place we're tryna get to'.
Whereas I think Elijah's accent was bang-on throughout the trilogy.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
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Arandiel
Grey Havens
Sep 10 2012, 6:50am
Post #16 of 57
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Just discovered the definitive take - it's not American, as
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dialect coach Andrew Jack points out here on his website:
Aragorn was raised secretly in Rivendell by Elves and therefore is familiar with all the languages of Middle-earth. He spent nearly 70 years among various peoples and in various guises; he has the ability to modify his speech according to where he is and who he's with (a requirement of being incognito); he does not belong to any particular place or people. We decided to create a way of speaking that illustrated these characteristics, choosing RP vowels, an Irish 'R' and an idiosyncratic rhythm. ('RP' in the above quote stands for 'Received Pronunciation,' indicating standard British English). Considering Mortenson's background in languages (he's fluent in at least three) and singing, I'm not sure that his own ears would've let him unintentionally make huge slips in his accent work. Also, all three films went through ADR in post-production for the overwhelming majority of the dialogue (it's mentioned in the production team and cast's audio commentaries), providing the filmmakers ample time to send the actors off to the dialect coaches. I think we're just not used to how close some Irish and American dialects sound to each other; it can be disconcerting. And I rather suspect we in the US and Canada have some Irish influence to thank for our "American Rs".
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 10 2012, 7:58am
Post #17 of 57
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And unfair, if you ask me. I, as neither English or American, (but I have lived in England for some time) thought Wood and Astin did a pretty solid job with their accents. If Persbrandt even achieves half of what they did, it will be good (Persbrandt is notoriousfor having limited English skills over here...I dread he will slip into some form of Swe-nglish as Beorn. I hope not.)
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 10:11am
Post #18 of 57
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"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
(This post was edited by Nightingale on Sep 10 2012, 10:14am)
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 10:14am
Post #19 of 57
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When Aragorn's accent went 'wrong'
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I agree that it sounded like neither one nor the other. Just something strange about the vowels.
I am curious as to where you heard Wood's accent slip? I never noticed, but perhaps I would if it was pointed out to me....
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 10:20am
Post #20 of 57
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if, being from Sweden, you will be more sensitive to any possible wobbles in Beorn's accent. Perhaps your ear will be more attuned to it, as it were.
On the other hand, we could be pleasantly surprised with Persbrandt's accent. To be honest, I am in no position to judge. I am sure that my Swedish accent would be terrible.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 10 2012, 10:23am
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I am adamant that I along with the rest of the Swedish crowd that will be watching are going to be distracted by Persbrandt's way of speaking English in the films. Thankfully, the rest of the world won't be! I won't be surprised if American, British, NZers, Australians etc folks will like, or love, a somewhat scandinavian twist of Beorn's way of speaking.
Though, I read that Persbrandt has taken special English speaking classes for his role as Beorn. So who knows!
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Sep 10 2012, 10:24am)
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Nightingale
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 11:14am
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This is interesting. I shall be listening for the Irish 'r's next time. I speak fairly neutral RP, and had Irish grandparents (County Kerry).
In fact, that whole article is fascinating, thanks.
Oooh, is this the moment where I get to gush over Viggo's linguistic and musical skills? I agree that he probably has a sensitive ear for that kind of thing, (and all that poetry he writes would have instilled a feeling for intonation and phrasing yes? ).
Frankly, whatever accent Viggo has is just fine by me.
"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis
"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 1:00pm
Post #23 of 57
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Viggo is fully fluent in three languages, conversational in two and can understand Swedish/Norwegian.
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So I think he has enough of an ear to not "slip up" as often as some people may think he did. Thanks for the background on the accent they developed.
(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Sep 10 2012, 1:01pm)
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MatthewJer18
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 1:02pm
Post #24 of 57
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While I think he's been unfairly maligned in general, his accent in particular has been subject to some rather excessive criticism, in my opinion. Perhaps it's simply due to my untrained ear, but as an audience member I found it fairly convincing and pleasing to the ear throughout the trilogy.
(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Sep 10 2012, 1:04pm)
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Escapist
Gondor
Sep 10 2012, 1:54pm
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But I don't think that's saying much!
I have heard so many different accents from so many different places and haven't spent enough time in any one of them to sort them out by regions rather than individuals.
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Kassandros
Rohan
Sep 10 2012, 2:49pm
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Didn't have a problem with anyone's accents in the trilogy
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Never noticed anything funny about that Sean Astin line, nor any of the Viggo or Elijah examples cited on this thread. Everything sounded pretty consistent to me. Nothing as distracting as, say, the change in Gimli's prosthetics and makeup in certain scenes.
On the other hand, I don't have much experience with Great Britain accents. I imagine someone living in England would be more sensitive to mistakes. Having grown up in the American South, even though I myself do not have a Southern accent, I am still sensitive to poorly done attempts made by actors. Some attempts I've heard from English actors have been something close to laughable, but I'm thinking more of television at the moment. So I can imagine Brits might have the same experience whereas I wouldn't notice.
all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...
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Solicitr
Gondor
Sep 10 2012, 10:23pm
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Having grown up in the American South, even though I myself do not have a Southern accent, I am still sensitive to poorly done attempts made by actors. Some attempts I've heard from English actors have been something close to laughable, but I'm thinking more of television at the moment. So I can imagine Brits might have the same experience whereas I wouldn't notice.
What most Hollywood actors never seem to understand (except for genuine Southerners like Fred Thompson or Anson Mount or Robert Duvall) is that there is no one Southern accent. There are dozens: Virginia Tidewater, East Texas and Tennessee coal country are pretty much nothing alike. What Hollywood gives us instead is a "generic Southern" which is a mishmash of all sorts of places which therefore comes from no place at all.
I imagine Britons react rather the same way, although at least British English is backstopped by RP.
(This post was edited by Solicitr on Sep 10 2012, 10:24pm)
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Ruinwen
Rivendell
Sep 10 2012, 11:47pm
Post #28 of 57
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Viggo, IMHO, is a great Aragorn. He looks the part. His physical dedication to becoming the character really shines through and you can see it on screen. I love, love, love him as Aragorn, he is a wonderful screen presence, he lived and breathed the character and the films just wouldn't be the same without him.
BUT.
I'm afraid I cringe almost every time he opens his mouth. I just do not know what is going on with his accent. At first he just sounded American, which was a bit jarring for me but I accepted it. But then other times he sounds as if he's trying to do Englishishness, and sometimes it's an Irishy/West country sounding thing? I just have no idea. If it was deliberate on the part of the voice coaches....hmm. Not sure it was a great idea.
My absolute least favourite part, that is almost so bad it's funny, is the line 'You cannot wield it! None of us can. The One Ring answers to Sauron alone. It has no other master!' (apologies if I've quoted that wrongly, I'm just doing it from memory)
Seriously. Re-watch that bit. He sounds as if he's huffed a bunch of helium. His voice goes all high and strange and his accent is just....wow. I feel embarrassed for him whenever I watch it.
As for the others....I thought Sean's West Country thing for Sam was quite good. A bit thickly laid on, but fairly accurate. There are actually people who sound like that in England!
Elijah had a couple of slip ups - one of the worst ones is when he says 'You will take us to the Black Gate' in TTT, that sounds pretty American. But in general his English accent is exceptionally good - for an 18-year-old in a fantasy movie, I think he pretty much nailed it. But I believe he spent some time in England as a child? which probably makes it easier for him.
Theoden's 'Many Lives' bit is super bizarre, I think it's just a bit of Lancastrian slipping through his RP.
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thomasofrohan
Lorien
Sep 11 2012, 12:24am
Post #29 of 57
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Words cannot describe how much I love Aragorn's voice in the trilogy.
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And I think it was quite consistent throughout too; I certainly never thought of the accent as "American".
In fact, I'll go even bolder and say that I think the supposed "missteps" were actually a believeable extension of the voice, just as we can sometimes sound slightly different ourselves depending on certain factors (for instance, the voice does go higher several times throughout the trilogy, and when it does there's usually a certain emotional context). As I believe others have mentioned, Viggo seemed to know what he was doing - he'd not just slip up to the extent that some are suggesting he did, and, in my own opinion, he did not.
(This post was edited by thomasofrohan on Sep 11 2012, 12:30am)
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 2:43am
Post #30 of 57
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If Beorn has a bit of a Swedish accent?
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
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Sep 11 2012, 2:53am
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Viggo had a head cold at the time of that scene in the Coundil, which I think accounts for the odd nasal sound of it. What has always bugged and puzzled me about it, however, is that I could swear I remember an early trailer in which that line featured - and it didn't sound like that. The only conclusion I can come to is that they either did ADR for the trailer which wasn't done for the movie, or they somehow altered the sound for the trailer. Either way, I have never understood why they didn't replace the movie version.
Silverlode
"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you." -On Fairy Stories
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Ruinwen
Rivendell
Sep 11 2012, 3:18am
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Was that bit even in the theatrical release? It's been so long since I've watched the un-extended versions that I can't even remember. If it wasn't, maybe that 's why they didn't bother.
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 6:41am
Post #33 of 57
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Because it will sound cheesy //
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The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Ruinwen
Rivendell
Sep 11 2012, 7:36am
Post #34 of 57
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I wouldn't have any objection to him having a swedish accent either....unless it made him sound like an 80's porn actor...
I think I always imagined Beorn having a different accent to Thorin & co. I don't know exactly what, though....Swedish will do fine.
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 7:46am
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That it will sound cheesy to my ears... hopefully not to other people!
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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dijomaja
Lorien
Sep 11 2012, 12:40pm
Post #36 of 57
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Frodo notices Aragorn's accent changing shortly after their first meeting at the inn, "You began to talk to me like the Bree-folk, but your voice has changed...", so there's some support for the idea that the accent was meant (or at least allowed) to change.
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Solicitr
Gondor
Sep 11 2012, 5:46pm
Post #37 of 57
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If Beorn has a bit of a Swedish accent?
No reason why not: Tolkien's own 'fiction of translation' had it that the Dwarves' public names were of Norse type because the Men of northern Wilderland spoke a language which related to Rohirric related to Westron as Norse related to Old English related to Modern English.
In other words, if Beorn sounds like Bjorn Borg, no problem.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 8:11pm
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I notice that line every time, too.
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But not necessarily for the accent. It's more the higher register his voice is in when he speaks.
I didn't notice anything about anyone's accent in the movies, to be honest.
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RosieLass
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 8:13pm
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In the BBC audio adaptation...
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...Robert Stephens' "Strider" voice was a rustic, country accent, whereas, when he became "Aragorn," it shifted to a much more cultured accent. I think they call it "Received Pronunciation"?
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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RosieLass
Valinor
Sep 11 2012, 8:17pm
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Although I don't think it's just Hollywood that doesn't understand it.
I'm always amused when British actors portrays Americans, because they usually come out sounding like Texas. Or Pittsburgh.
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
(This post was edited by RosieLass on Sep 11 2012, 8:17pm)
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Solicitr
Gondor
Sep 11 2012, 8:40pm
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...Robert Stephens' "Strider" voice was a rustic, country accent, whereas, when he became "Aragorn," it shifted to a much more cultured accent. I think they call it "Received Pronunciation"?
When "Strider" spoke like the Bree-folk, then the accent I'm sure Tolkien had in mind was something like rural Buckinghamshire, and that's what Viggo should have used there (or at the very least a generic Loamshire like Butterbur).
(This post was edited by Solicitr on Sep 11 2012, 8:45pm)
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Misto
Lorien
Sep 11 2012, 10:55pm
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I believe the person who brought up the Beorn-issue is a Swede himself? Sorry, I couldn't find the post in a hurry.
If so I totally understand why this would be bothersome. For my part I do have a problem with "my own" accent - it drives me up the wall to hear someone with the slightest German accent. I guess it's just that you are so sensitive towards your own accent in a foreign language, wishing for it to disappear, that it makes you somewhat intolerant towards it.
Also, the more you're into a language the more you start to notice even the slightest accents. I remember when I worked in England I had a German colleague who spoke really superb English. When I first heard her talk I though she could pass as a Brit. But after some time I would still be able to notice her slight German accent. Up to the point when I answered her English question in German because I had my mind on whatever work I just did and all of a sudden her English just didn't sound "English enough" any more for me to recognize it as such.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 12 2012, 2:06am
Post #43 of 57
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Why is having a Swedish accent cheesy?
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Does. not. compute.
Particularly for a character that has his roots in Norse/old Germanic myth...
It is also realistic that the men of Middle Earth would speak in accents when they used the Common Speech (Westron), as for many, it wouldn't have been their first language.
This is all very strange to me...
(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 12 2012, 2:08am)
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 12 2012, 6:53am
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What I clarified in my other post
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And as Misto filled in, it will sound cheesy to me and probably 99% of my fellow countrymen. I added that this may not be the case for the rest of the world.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
(This post was edited by macfalk on Sep 12 2012, 6:55am)
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elevorn
Lorien
Sep 12 2012, 5:03pm
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always has a strange accent to me, like he cannot be placed to one area of the world in any movie. Watch him in GI Jane and you can here this odd accent he has, as well as History of Violence, and Hidalgo where he tries a psuedo southern accent. I think the man is an awesome actor and I love what he brings to every role he's in. I think his vast knowledge of languages really plays with his english at times.
"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 13 2012, 4:25am
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So you are a Swede, and find it cheesy to hear Swedish accents on lines spoken in English?
If so, that makes sense. I also dislike American accents on characters that should have English ones.
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wendy woo
Rivendell
Sep 13 2012, 11:26pm
Post #47 of 57
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Most Americans can't do British accents well and vice versa...
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Not Kevin Costner, that's for sure. Not even the great Shakespearean actor Kenneth Branagh could carry off a believable American accent in Dead Again. When I first heard Hugh Laurie do his American accent on House I about split in two laughing. It was painful to hear because I knew it was fake. I knew him from the early '90's from episodes of Blackadder and he'd even been in a few films after that using his usual accent. But when people started talking to me about this new "American" actor on House, I about lost it. Now he's been doing it so long, it's believable, but it took him a while to get it right. The only American I can think of at the moment who is good at accents is Meryl Streep, but there might be others out there too.
"I ate the Shirriff, but I did not eat the deputy."- Wormtongue
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Solicitr
Gondor
Sep 14 2012, 12:01am
Post #48 of 57
(2433 views)
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Emma Thompson actually does an excellent midwestern American.
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wendy woo
Rivendell
Sep 14 2012, 1:42am
Post #49 of 57
(2426 views)
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It's acceptable, and American South accents are easier for them, also.
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Can't Post
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Tilda Swinton has done one well.
"I ate the Shirriff, but I did not eat the deputy."- Wormtongue
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RosieLass
Valinor
Sep 14 2012, 4:02pm
Post #50 of 57
(2410 views)
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But I've never understood why they make actors change their accent anyway.
Why couldn't Dr. House have been a Brit?
"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)
It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)
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wendy woo
Rivendell
Sep 16 2012, 5:36pm
Post #51 of 57
(1793 views)
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Because that would have made sense!
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Can't Post
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"I ate the Shirriff, but I did not eat the deputy."- Wormtongue
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Elenorflower
Gondor
Sep 16 2012, 10:56pm
Post #52 of 57
(1771 views)
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Hes a Ranger, he probably never spoke to another human being for months in the Wild. he probably felt a bit rusty and awkward in Bree suddenly having to talk a lot. Viggo had an odd slightly old European sounding accent in Bree, but not American.
But as I am English and I am very familiar with various English accents, I never for one moment thought Viggo or any of the actors had an American accent. I would have noticed it like a sore thumb. I thought Elijah was perfect too, and I loved Sams West Country burr. Liv was pretty good also.
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 17 2012, 3:58pm
Post #53 of 57
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If you would have clicked my profile, would have seen that I was a Swede in the first place
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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macfalk
Valinor
Sep 18 2012, 8:23am
Post #55 of 57
(1683 views)
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Clicking on fellow torn-members profiles doesn't make you a stalker!
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor
Sep 18 2012, 1:43pm
Post #56 of 57
(1666 views)
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But doing it does put you a step closer to being a stalker.
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Gwynele
Registered User
Sep 24 2012, 9:00am
Post #57 of 57
(1878 views)
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I didnt mind the different accents. I could pick out the different dialects at times (like Billy Boyd's scottish accent), and thought nothing of it. I'd imagine, that in Middle Earth there would be different dialects depending on geography, just like there are in the real world.
Yea, I did hear some slip ups once in awhile as others have noted, but generally was too engaged to let it bother me.
In the Hobbit trailer you can already hear some of the different dialects (like James Nesbit's Irish one), so I'd imagine we'll get some of that in the Hobbit as well.
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