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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Jackson comments on Del Toro's vision of The Hobbit
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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 25 2012, 4:50am

Post #51 of 216 (3978 views)
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Aside: It was upon seeing HB II [In reply to] Can't Post

That I became convinced that the Hobbit was going to look spectacular. The elves especially, their look, their weapons, their fighting style... sigh. Actually Prince Nuada's sword reminded me very much of what Peter Lyon came up with for the Prologue Elven Warrior's, which remain my favourite designs in LOTR.



(This post was edited by SirDennisC on 0 secs ago)


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 4:53am

Post #52 of 216 (3987 views)
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oh i agree [In reply to] Can't Post

makes my mouth water for what is in-store for us!


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


imin
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 8:36am

Post #53 of 216 (3925 views)
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You say the same thing in every thread, lol [In reply to] Can't Post

If PJ cant do it then no one can! lol.

Other directors could i am sure come in and try their hand at making a film adaptation of Tolkien's works. I am sure some would fail, others i think would succeed.

This does not mean people who have this opinion wish that PJ had never made the films - how you are coming to this conclusion is strange as no one is saying this in any thread yet its all you say...........


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 9:24am

Post #54 of 216 (3928 views)
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Had PJ not made the trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post

I reckon someone would have made an adaptation with the same feel as The Neverending Story. While I like the book and enjoy the film, I certainly wouldn't want it to have ended it up like that ...


imin
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 9:46am

Post #55 of 216 (3934 views)
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Well we cant know now obviously [In reply to] Can't Post

as it has been done. Though i am sure if someone else did it and then other people mentioned PJ - he would get a poor reception from people here due to his other works.

I think it would totally depend on the director, for example if Nolan adapted the lord of the rings it wouldnt be anything like the neverending story and would also be different to PJ's version.

Its besides the point though, that from certain posters its either PJ or you want nothing, it just doesnt make sense. no one ever says these things.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 25 2012, 9:59am

Post #56 of 216 (3943 views)
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It's a lovely design for a king... [In reply to] Can't Post

... majestic, mysterious - just stunning. that said, it's a design that has already been used so I wouldn't have wanted to see Thorin looking like that.

I would be fascinated to see other film directors take on Tolkien's work in future. But I'm glad, so glad, that Peter Jackson and co are making The Hobbit now because I love the vision of Tolkien's world they created and want to see more of it. It's as simple as that, really.


imin
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 10:05am

Post #57 of 216 (3910 views)
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Yeah this is how i feel, would be nice in the future to see other adaptations but for now im pleased its PJ as i like his LOTR :) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I would be fascinated to see other film directors take on Tolkien's work in future. But I'm glad, so glad, that Peter Jackson and co are making The Hobbit now because I love the vision of Tolkien's world they created and want to see more of it. It's as simple as that, really.



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 10:18am

Post #58 of 216 (3885 views)
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I'm not *that* familiar with Nolan [In reply to] Can't Post

Did he make any films around the same time of the filming of LOTR (~2000), and what were they like?

In my opinion, all fantasy films up to LOTR had the very same feel to The Neverending Story (and some still do).


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 10:19am

Post #59 of 216 (3857 views)
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Agreed as well / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


imin
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 10:26am

Post #60 of 216 (3888 views)
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He had made a few at that point [In reply to] Can't Post

From the ones i have watched they were insomnia and memento. I really like memento think it was very original. insomnia was good but for me there are other woks he has done which are better. Overall i think he has a great track record - though he isn't the only one who could adapt the books into film, it was just an example. I dont know what you would think of them obviously but seeing as i like them i think you would, lol.

PJ was the first to do a big blockbuster fantasy in a realistic way - i doubt people would have expected him to do so before the films came out from looking at his previous material so its hard to say every other director in the world would have gone down the never ending story route. Like i have said if Nolan did it, it certainly would not have but he is just one example. And at the end of the day he didn't and PJ did.

My point i was making though is that certain people are so pro PJ they cant take any criticism of him - all they hear is PJ sucks! I wish there were no movies. When that just is not what has been said.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 12:01pm

Post #61 of 216 (3912 views)
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Remember that GDT hired John Howe and Alan Lee to work on the films [In reply to] Can't Post

They were never intended to look radically different from Lord of the Rings.


dalecooper
Rivendell

Aug 25 2012, 12:22pm

Post #62 of 216 (3834 views)
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Well, I meant the Tolkien-ish brand of fantasy... [In reply to] Can't Post

...swords, wizards, warriors. Certainly GDT's movies are "fantastical in nature" but they draw from fairy tales and horror, not from anything especially Tolkien-like. The two do share a common love of monsters, though.

Unfortunately my Googlin' skills are letting me down on this front, because I can't find the quote from him (years ago - it pre-dates him being involved with the movies at all).


dalecooper
Rivendell

Aug 25 2012, 12:24pm

Post #63 of 216 (3801 views)
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Yes, they work for PJ. But: [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe he hired those guys because they have a history of interpreting Tolkien visually. Otherwise, any skilled sketch artist with a little imagination would do. Those guys were used for a reason, and that is to give creative input.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 12:25pm

Post #64 of 216 (3857 views)
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As much as I like Nolan, he would be a poor fit for Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

As evidenced by his Dark Knight films, Christopher Nolan does not particularly like fantasy universes. Almost every comic-like or fantastical element of the Batman mythos was stripped away. The result – while very good in its own right – did not satisfy all fans of the material, many of whom are eagerly awaiting the upcoming reboot. Considering that even Peter Jackson's handling of Tolkien's fantasy – such as Gandalf's magic – managed to elicit complaints from some corners, I can scarcely imagine how Nolan's ultra-realistic, fantasy-free Lord of the Rings would have been received.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 12:31pm

Post #65 of 216 (3800 views)
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Fairy tales like 'The Hobbit'? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dalecooper
Rivendell

Aug 25 2012, 12:35pm

Post #66 of 216 (3841 views)
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Found the quote. [In reply to] Can't Post

From a Spanish interview, here translated to English:

To what extent has the work of Tolkien influenced you ? Thank you and much success with the film!

Not at all. I could barely finish "The Hobbit". Curiously, that kind of fantasy, never called out to me. I think that fairy tales are in themselves a different genre. Heroic fantasy, in general, leaves me cold. I am more interested in Robert E. Howard's work of terror - his novels about the muscular Conan. Although there are two writers of fantasy that I think are sublime: Clark Ashton Smith and Lord Dunsany.

So it's clear enough: GDT doesn't view "The Hobbit" as a fairy tale, he views it as a tale of swords and sorcerers, and it clearly wasn't up his alley at all.


imin
Valinor


Aug 25 2012, 12:37pm

Post #67 of 216 (3852 views)
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Yeah i dont think he would be a great fit for Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

He would not be as good as PJ at any rate in my mind as like you say he is good but just wouldnt fit in middle earth.

It was more an example of how it wouldnt be in the never ending story mold if he were the director. Tongue


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 12:45pm

Post #68 of 216 (3887 views)
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I'll let GDT speak for himself [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
wetahost: My question is, when Del Toro has acknowledged his disdain for Hobbits and "sword and sandals" fantasy, how can he do justice to the movie? Why can't Peter direct it himself after The Lovely Bones? He can direct these 2 movies and then direct the 3rd Tintin movie.



Quote
Guillermo_del_Toro: Okay- If by “Sword and Sandal” you mean “Sword and Sorcery” I stand by the general lines of my statement in 2006. But allow me to reproduce the following paragraph from ONERING.net and expand it-

Since the age of 4 I became an avid reader and collector of books; manuscripts, pamphlets, first editions, small press or worn-down paperbacks... they all find a home at my library which has grown so cumbersome and obtrusive that I had to move to a separate home from the family one...

For many decades my main area of interest has been horror fiction: Algernon Blackwood, Arthur Machen, MR James, LeFanu, etc and classic Fairy tales and literature about the engines of Myth: unabridged Grimm, Andersen, Wilde, Bettelheim, Tatar, etc

Now and then I indulge in Science Fiction (not hardware oriented but more humanistic things) and thus I count Bradbury, Ellison, Sturgeon and Matheson amongst my favorites.

My area of interest gets much narrower when we deal with another genre... the genre that is shelved under Fantasy.

As a youngster I read Moorcock, Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany, Lloyd Alexander, Fritz Leiber, Marcel Schwob, RE Howard and a few others.

Nevertheless I was never propelled into an aleatory addiction to sub-genres like Sword & Sorcery or indiscriminate fantasies about magical this or that- Like any other genre or subgenre there's a great abundance that makes it hard to discern when a new "trilogy" or "chronicle" comes from as genuine a place as Tolkien's or derives from genuine fervor -religious or otherwise- like C.S. Lewis' did. But here I am now: reading like a madman to catch up with a whole new land, a continent of sorts- a Cosmology created by brilliant philologist turned Shaman.

As if he grasped an existing universe outside our Platonic cave, Tolkien channels an entire world, weaving expertly from myth and lore. The oustanding virtue is that all this scholarly erudition doesn't reduce his tales to mere Taxidermy. He achieves an Alchemy all of his own: he writes new life in the freshly sculpted clay of his creatures.

I have, through the years become familiar with the very roots of Tolkien's myths and the roots of Fafhrd or Elric or Hyperborea and many a time I have relished the intricate ways in which demonic wolves, shape-shifter and spindly-limbed pale warriors can be woven into those many tales that become, at the end, the single tale, the single saga- that of what is immortal in us all.

In creating Pan's Labyrinth I drank deep of the most rigid form of Fairy Lore and tried to contextualize the main recurrent motifs in an instinctive rhyme between the world of fantasy and the delusions of War and Politics (the grown man's way of playing make-believe) and in re-reading THE HOBBIT just recently I was quite moved by discovering, through Bilbo's eyes the illusory nature of possession, the sins of hoarding and the banality of war- whether in the Western Front or at a Valley in Middle Earth. Lonely is the mountain indeed.

When that statement was made- at different times during PANS LABYRINTH’s promotion, many a time I made the distinctive call to say that althought I had not read Tolkien outside THE HOBBIT I had been fascinated by the Trilogy films. A statement that I already had the chance to make in 2005 when PJ, Fran and I met about HALO.

So, no, generally I am NOT a “Sword and Sorcery” guy or a “Fantasy” guy- By the same token, I'm not a sci-fi guy but I would make a film based on Ellison in a second- or on Sturgeon or Bradbury or Matheson. I'm not into Barbarians with swords but i would kill to tackle Fafhrd and Grey Mouse... and so on and so forth... I'm a believer but not a Dogmatic.

Allow me to put a final, finer point to our discussion. The aesthetics of HELLBOY II are completely Pop and color-saturated, much more comic book / modern than I would ever use in THE HOBBIT but- I spend two years creating a world of Fairies, Elves, Trolls, etc

Two Years. A career / creative decision that precedes any inkling of THE HOBBIT. I wrote the script years before I met with PJ or Fran. In other words I dedicated the last 6 years of my career (between PL and HBII) to create Fantastical world inhabited by Fairies, Fauns, Ogres, Trolls, Elves, etc

In that respect- I guess I am a Fantasy guy when the particular world appeals to me. Back in the Jurassic Period (1992 / 1993) when CRONOS won the Critic’s Week at Cannes I was referred to as an “art house guy”- I followed that with a giant cockroach movie that proved successful enough to spawn two sequels and allow me to co-finance THE DEVILS BACKBONE which send me back to being an “art house guy”. Then I did BLADE II and people thought of me as an “Action guy”- PJ went through a similar mercurial career with HEAVENLY CREATURES, BAD TASTE, DEAD ALIVE, etc I squirm away from a tag and I hope I can avoid being just a “Fantasy guy” after PL, HBII and H…

I do the tales I love (regardless of what shelf Barnes & Noble classifies the book under) and I love the HOBBIT.

I love it enough to give it half a decade of my life and move half a world away to do it.


http://www.comingsoon.net/...bitnews.php?id=45413


GoodGuyA
Lorien

Aug 25 2012, 12:49pm

Post #69 of 216 (3907 views)
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You said monopolized. [In reply to] Can't Post

That means all encompassing. You did not specify live action in that statement. Even if you did, it's absurd to be saying that someone has 'monopolized' something there's only been one attempt at... Maybe if there were more than two Tolkien stories which were properly adaptable (since I'm sure few here want to see shots in the dark at stuff like the War in the North in detail) then you might have a point on how much influence PJ's team has over the vision of Tolkien. However, there are only two stories. That's where it will likely end. I don't think that's 'monopolizing'.


dalecooper
Rivendell

Aug 25 2012, 12:53pm

Post #70 of 216 (3907 views)
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That's a strong about-face from him EXPLICITLY saying: [In reply to] Can't Post

"I could barely get through 'The Hobbit'."

Pardon my cynicism, but I think his current employment at the time of that second quote informed it greatly. I think his earlier comment was a lot more candid. He just wasn't big into Tolkien, or medievalist fantasy in general.

That doesn't mean his "Hobbit" movies would have been bad, but it doesn't fill my heart with hope that they would have been great, either. As I said above, GDT is a guy with a strong personal vision and a common feel to all his movies (even his "superhero blockbusters" - Hellboy). That feel, to me, doesn't resemble Tolkien and would have dovetailed rather strangely with PJ's LOTR approach.

I also think it's probable that he would have taken more bothersome liberties with the material than PJ is prone to. But that's just my feeling, and it's possibly quite inaccurate.


(This post was edited by dalecooper on Aug 25 2012, 12:55pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Aug 25 2012, 2:00pm

Post #71 of 216 (3838 views)
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You know something is wrong... [In reply to] Can't Post

...when a translation of an off-the-cuff statement made more than half a decade ago holds more water than a life-changing career commitment. If GDT legitimately does not like Tolkien, why on earth did he spend two years in New Zealand developing The Hobbit as a directorial project? Before you suggest that he accepted a film he did not want to make in an attempt to further his career, remember that this is the man who turned down Harry Potter to make a comic-book vampire movie, and declined The Chronicles of Narnia in favour of a little Spanish horror film.

I find it easy to relate to the 'about-face', perhaps because I had a similar experience. I first read The Fellowship of the Ring when I was eight or nine years old, and for the most part, Tolkien's world flew right over my head. I was not yet mature enough to appreciate the complexity and stately beauty of what he had created. Since then my relationship to the story has reversed entirely.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 25 2012, 2:08pm

Post #72 of 216 (3862 views)
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Of the same mind [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
I love the vision of Tolkien's world they created and want to see more of it.


However when G was directing I was confident he would make a film that would delight even though it would have been completely different than what PJ had done before.

As for the King Balor pic, that wasn't a vote for the look of Thorin, I was just saying G has a great design sense and the antler idea can be aesthetically pleasing... just a little tired of people saying "OMG he was gonna put antlers on his head," like it's universally understood as a bad thing.



(This post was edited by SirDennisC on 0 secs ago)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 25 2012, 2:36pm

Post #73 of 216 (3798 views)
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That is true [In reply to] Can't Post

But with GDT in the driving seat, Howe and Lee would have to work to his requirements, and his vision of Middle-earth; rather than PJ's, which had already been created.


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 25 2012, 3:05pm

Post #74 of 216 (3807 views)
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I have to agree with you... [In reply to] Can't Post

Knowing his first statement did not make me excited for him filming. In fact I personaly don't think his second statment was anything but saving face.

Has anyone ever seen an actor or director praise there current project. But after admit they reolized it was. Crap all along. As far as I am concerned GDT was an employee of WB at the time and it was his responsibility to put his best foot forward.

For me PJ and team have such a deep love for this work that I can much easier forgive their mistakes. Had GDT directed and made a mess of the film/films I would not be so easy to forgive because I know he had no real love for it.

I feel it shows when a director does not love the source material. Christopher Nolan is a prime example. His achivment with his batman trilogy rests with his incredible talent as a film maker. He made three incredibly well made movies. But he also made three kinda crappy "batman" movies. He is and was not ever a comic book fan and it shows.

I will also say that I am generally happy with the LOTR trilogy. Could have another director done a better job. Sure. But there is just as much chance another director would have done worse.


Marionette
Rohan


Aug 25 2012, 3:16pm

Post #75 of 216 (3768 views)
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I second that [In reply to] Can't Post

I admire what Peter Jackson is doing, for sure, but in the other hand I was very much interested in watching Del Toro´s (Something different) vision as well.

Yeah, New Zealand and Jackson´s company has the hands over all Tolkien, but I still think it was good after all to have them back to make both trilogies the same.

Good to hear Jackson mentioning Del Toro, interested in seeing what he (Del Toro) did.Smile


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen


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