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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Greenbooks guest post: in defense of a Hobbit trilogy
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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 4 2012, 5:42pm

Post #51 of 112 (745 views)
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Well if film 2 is to focus on Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

they will need a significant amount of padding. Regardless, I'm not convinced film one, as we have been lead to imagine it, will be changed at all.

But as Monteath and others here have noted, there's an awful lot of encounters to wade trough for one part of a trilogy, if balance is any consideration. Perhaps they should retitle it "A Series of Unfortunate Events."

ETA: I would like to add that I found your post to be of highest quality, though I haven't commented on it (yet).


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Aug 4 2012, 5:44pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 4 2012, 5:45pm

Post #52 of 112 (737 views)
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Wasn't me (assuming you mean me, and not another Daniel). [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Also, someone on the board (Daniel?) recently mentioned Aragorn's travels in Rhun and Harad with his stumbling on some "wayward Tooks" and Blue Wizards...would enjoy seeing the movie as well, though it would be mostly fan-fiction! Wink



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 4 2012, 5:47pm

Post #53 of 112 (742 views)
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Ack! That's twice today I've spelled "rationale" as "rational" [In reply to] Can't Post

how irrational of me! Crazy


Bladerunner
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 5:57pm

Post #54 of 112 (734 views)
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I like that approach also... [In reply to] Can't Post

especially if the Dol Guldur Orcs under the Necromancer's command are only shown to be joining forces with the much greater Gundabad and Misty Mountain contingents already mobilizing under Bolg's command, - and that Bolg is not beholden to the Necromancer in any way during that time.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 6:02pm

Post #55 of 112 (787 views)
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A good question [In reply to] Can't Post

And one that is very difficult to answer. The licence agreement provides that the "basic commencement period" is 30 months, but there are so many different provisions and extensions and complications, that it is difficult and or impossible for me to give a clear answer to that question. Hence my repeated "with a certain amount of time."

Another interesting provision in the licence agreement is that it requires that the person holding the licence produce one version of one of the films made in the series of films with an odd green tint. It further requires that the licence refuse to discuss this issue, and indeed deny that the green tint even exists!
Angelic

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 6:06pm

Post #56 of 112 (750 views)
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LOL. [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the best Conspiracy Theory I've heard yet. *mods up* Laugh

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 4 2012, 6:43pm

Post #57 of 112 (773 views)
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Doesn't it strictly forbid the use of the character Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

with a similar denial clause?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 4 2012, 6:56pm

Post #58 of 112 (735 views)
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LOL II [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't see that coming, making it all the more funny! Superb. May I quote you? Wink


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 6:59pm

Post #59 of 112 (715 views)
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At your own risk [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Glad you found it amusing.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 7:09pm

Post #60 of 112 (777 views)
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It could, or it could enhance both trilogies into one continuous story. [In reply to] Can't Post

by placing the story in its larger context. There are those who are worried about The Hobbit being overshadowed, and when the third movie was announced, there were those who then became worried that the LOTR trilogy would be overshadowed by the adaptation of the much-shorter and "simpler" Hobbit. But I'm beginning to think that if they play their cards right both stories might get justice.

I think we have to take it as definite that the "original" stand-alone Hobbit (that it was written before and unconnected to LOTR) is not going to happen. Clearly we are getting the post-LOTR revised Riddles in the Dark version of The Hobbit. That being so, what is the larger context? Tolkien himself said that the Ring was the obvious connection point when he went to write another story about Hobbits. And the second tie-in is the disguised Sauron in Dol Guldur who pulls Gandalf away from the main story of The Hobbit. What we may be getting here is the Rise and Fall of Sauron in six parts.

Hobbit, Part 1: Gandalf is worried about the stories he's heard about the Necromancer. He goes to investigate, discovers his identity and meets Thrain. He cannot convince the White Council to move (as Saruman speaks against it). But he hears that Thorin is planning a raid on Smaug. At least he can inconvenience any plans Sauron might have had to make use of a dragon to subdue/intimidate the north. He provides Thorin with a map, a key, a Burglar, and his own escort as far as Mirkwood, where he goes off to confer with Radagast. The White Council meets. Movie motivation: Nazgul weaponry proves to the White Council that they need to make a move.

Hobbit, Part 2: Thorin and Co stir up trouble all along the way. They get captured by goblins, killing the Great Goblin in the process and dragging the whole population of Goblin Town out to war. Bilbo finds a strange Ring and meets a strange creature. Gandalf is puzzled by Bilbo's newfound invisibility trick but has a few more urgent things on his mind just then, such as what Sauron is up to. The dwarves the proceed to involve Beorn and annoy the Elves and Laketown on their way to annoy Smaug. Bilbo, using his new Ring then proceeds to use to stir up Smaug, getting him out of his mountain, and appropriates the Arkenstone. Smaug is killed and Laketown and the Elves are stirred up to war. Meanwhile, Gandalf persuades the White Council to annoy the Necromancer. They battle, but (my personal theory here) the Necromancer takes advantage of the goblins tracking Thorin and Co. as a diversion, using them to distract and draw off Gandalf while he makes his pre-planned escape.

Hobbit, Part 3: Smaug is dead, but everyone hates Thorin. Goblins from Goblin Town, Elves from Mirkwood, Men from Laketown and a probable northern contingent of goblins from Mt. Gundabad converge on the Lonely Mountain. Gandalf hurries to get there before things go up. Thorin sends for help from Dain of the Iron Hills. Bilbo hides the Arkenstone and uses it as leverage. The Battle of Five (or so) Armies is fought. Bilbo survives, Thorin does not. Bilbo returns to the Shire and tries to pick up his life again. Sauron begins rebuilding his domain in Mordor in secret...

The Lord of the Rings, Part 1: Bilbo is old, eccentric, and is writing a book of his adventures, but he's itching to travel again and feeling that something's not right. He plans a joke, a retirement and an adventure all rolled into one. He leaves his old life, including the Ring, to Frodo and heads off to Rivendell. Sauron captures Gollum, and dispatches the Nine to find Baggins. Gandalf discovers the truth about the Ring, the Nine, and about Saruman. He and Elrond decide the Ring cannot be hidden or lost again, but must be destroyed. Bilbo passes on his sword, his mail and his story to Frodo. The Fellowship is formed, and sets out. Gandalf falls, Gollum follows, and Boromir falls. The Fellowship breaks.

The Lord of the Rings, Part 2: The War of the Ring begins. Sauron begins to mass his troops and sets out to take the fords of Osgiliath, while Saruman sends the Wild Men and Uruk-Hai against Rohan. Frodo and Sam join up with Gollum and meet Faramir on their way toward Mordor. Saruman's hold on Theoden is broken. He sends his army to destroy Rohan but they are destroyed instead at Helm's Deep. Merry and Pippin are captured by Saruman's Uruk-Hai and stir up the Ents to destroy Isengard and end his usefulness to Sauron. Sauron prepares to launch his final attack.

The Lord of the Rings, Part 3: All armies converge on Minas Tirith. Aragorn triggers Sauron's attack via the Palantir and summons the Oathbreakers. Minas Tirith is saved for the moment. Frodo and Sam bypass Minas Morgul as the armies march out but are betrayed by Gollum in Shelob's Lair and Frodo is captured by Mordor orcs. Sam aids his escape, but Sauron gains Frodo's mithril mail as a bargaining chip. Aragorn stages a feint to draw out Sauron's army and give Frodo a clear path to Mount Doom. The Ring is destroyed, Gollum dies, Mordor falls. Sauron is destroyed. The King Returns. Frodo continues Bilbo's book with his part of the Tale. Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Bilbo and Frodo take ship to the Undying Lands. Sam goes home (and finishes Bilbo's book).

Seen this way, all six movies make for one continuous story, and I don't think either needs overshadow the other. Bilbo's adventure was certainly of key importance to what came after, and Frodo's story is a continuation of what began during Bilbo's adventure. "Bookend" scenes may be entirely appropriate here, as the tale in its entirety is told in the Red Book - written by all three Ringbearers in turn.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Aug 4 2012, 7:31pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 4 2012, 7:22pm

Post #61 of 112 (718 views)
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Agree completely with this Silverlode [In reply to] Can't Post

When it's written out like this, you can't help but think how amazing the hexology will be!


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Aug 4 2012, 7:26pm

Post #62 of 112 (707 views)
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I thought it might be interesting - [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
They battle, but (my personal theory here) the Necromancer takes advantage of the goblins tracking Thorin and Co. as a diversion, using them to distract and draw off Gandalf while he makes his pre-planned escape.


- if both sides underestimate each other. Sauron does real damage to the White Council and the Elves, weakening them and diminishing their numbers (which leads to the forces of good relying on the 'strength of Men' during the War of the Ring) , and the White Council weaken him a bit in return, so that it's more than half a century before his all-out assault on Middle-Earth. I think that would make sense to audiences.

(LOTR Elrond seems be a less cheerful character than his Hobbit-era self, from what I've seen.)


(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Aug 4 2012, 7:31pm)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 7:41pm

Post #63 of 112 (715 views)
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Looking at it... [In reply to] Can't Post

some of the "annoying of everyone" by Thorin and Co on their way to the mountain will probably happen in the first movie and some in the second. As I was writing it, it all landed in a lump under my second heading but I do expect that they will at least reach Mirkwood in the first film. I still think it's possible for the first film to end with Barrels out of Bond, especially because I keep associating it in my mind with the blend of optimistic and ominous that we saw in the last scenes of FOTR, with Frodo and Sam looking at Mordor. I can see Bilbo and the dwarves floating down the river, maybe with an ominous glimpse in the distance of the Lonely Mountain wreathed in clouds....or smoke.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 7:47pm

Post #64 of 112 (724 views)
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This is brilliant speculation [In reply to] Can't Post

I am guessing that this is largely the thrust of it.

However, Bilbo will be far more center-stage than this suggests. Though I cannot say for certain, it seems PJ and company may end film 1 before Mirkwood, and perhaps even before Bern, in order to give Bilbo more to do in film 2.

Remember, PJ has stated that the main difference between his films and other fantasy films is that he has hobbits to work with. That's the way to keep the audience connected.

And frankly, Bilbo doesn't do much from Thranduil's to the Lonely Mountain.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 4 2012, 7:52pm

Post #65 of 112 (689 views)
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Only if they're "man-in-suit" -- [In reply to] Can't Post

the way the ROUSs moved in The Princess Bride remains one of its endearing qualities. Knowing PJ, they would be mo-capped though. (On the other hand, there was that pony puppet on Caradhras.)

It would be cool if somewhere in the background noise of Mirkwood we are able to hear the sound that the flame spouts made in the Fire Swamp.

Laugh


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Aug 4 2012, 8:24pm

Post #66 of 112 (698 views)
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That third film still seems like a drag [In reply to] Can't Post

3 hours of plotting and a battle---yikes. I'm very excited about the first and second films but fail to muster any enthusiasm for what's supposedly the "big finale." The rumor of Sauron in the Battle of the Five Armies starts to make sense now. There's no way PJ kills Smaug and vanishes Sauron in the second film to leave us with what... an Orc captain as the main villain of the final film?

Which brings us back to the "Smaug as secondary villain, Sauron as primary villain" nonsense. I fear this is indeed how the movies are going to play out, but it is a ridiculous notion. Smaug is indeed a secondary villain, but he is secondary only to our main characters' flaws and ambition (which create division among themselves and set the mood for the BofA), and certainly NOT to the Necromancer, who is thematically irrelevant at this point. Make no mistake - I'm very excited about seeing the White Council in action, but it should be action limited to Dol Guldur alone. Having Sauron as the main villain of all six films sounds not just unimaginative but ponderous.


(This post was edited by HiddenSpring on Aug 4 2012, 8:31pm)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 4 2012, 8:26pm

Post #67 of 112 (708 views)
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The "quiet bits" [In reply to] Can't Post

are where you have room for some character development. As an example from LOTR, that's where we got to see and like Boromir; when they inserted scenes of him interacting with the hobbits during the occasional quiet moment along the journey.

We have 13 dwarves for Bilbo to interact with - and be annoyed by; I have a feeling that Bilbo is going to be peacemaking and rescuing them from the results of their folly all the way through the story, especially once Gandalf leaves them. I see it as a sort of comic theme which culminates by turning deadly serious in his bargaining with the Arkenstone in Film 3. I think Bilbo is going to have important things to do in all three films.

Film 1: Hosts the Unexpected Party. Bungles his first attempt at burglary and is involved in the troll incident. Receives Sting. Meets Elrond and falls in love with the Elves in Rivendell (remember, he later chooses to spend his "retirement" there, they may do a few scenes to set up for that). Bilbo sees the crack in the goblin cave open and yells to wake up Gandalf. He has an extensive (12 minutes, according to comments from Martin and Andy) Riddles in the Dark scene with Gollum, then his invisible escape. He's has a very close call with wargs because of not being able to find a tree with a low branch, and then is only rescued by eagles by hanging on to Dori's legs. He meets Beorn. He climbs a tree in Mirkwood. He rescues the dwarves from spiders. He sneaks around the Elven halls in invisible form and plans and executes their escape via barrel. (I'm assuming this is still the end of Film 1 for now)

Film 2: He arrives in Laketown with a bad cold (comedy opportunity). I wouldn't be surprised if he makes friends with Bard - or Bain while in Laketown. I don't expect to see a lot of time spent on the journey between Laketown and the arrival at the foot of the mountain - probably more a travel/scenery montage. He joins in the search for the Back Door (we saw the location for some of the search in the Locations blog), and then sits on the doorstep until the thrush knocks (I expect quite a bit of conflict with grumbling dwarves here). He takes center stage with his encounters with Smaug, and I expect these will be set pieces, much like the Riddles in the Dark scene. One of his scenes ends with being scorched as he runs up the tunnel. He steals a piece of treasure, stirring Smaug up to come attack and smash the Back Door and then head off to attack Laketown (at this point the story switches away from the Lonely Mountain for a considerable chunk of time. He explores the hoard and finds the Arkenstone. He is given the mithril mail by Thorin.

Film 3: Lots of conflict with dwarves, especially arguments with Thorin over his warlike attitude and worry and guilt over the Arkenstone (he has to rationalize it to himself). He meets the thrush again, and is present when Roac arrives. He sneaks into the army camp and bargains with the Arkenstone, reuniting with Gandalf. I expect him to be present for some of the discussion with Thranduil, Bard and Gandalf before he goes back. He is kicked out by Thorin in a rage when he discovers his use of the Arkenstone. He gets knocked out in the battle (although I expect this will not happen in the movie until he's been through a number of near misses even though invisible. He has a major scene with Thorin on his deathbed. He comes home to an auction and begins his feud with the Sackville-Bagginses. We may even see him "adopt" Frodo.

That's quite a lot of major story. I don't think he'll be relegated to the background in any way. My overall summary was only meant to show the overarching theme and how his story affects the bigger story, since PJ was saying he wanted to show how important Bilbo was to the larger story. But I think that Bilbo's story will be intercut with the Gandalf/Sauron background so that at the end we will have a big picture as well, which will continue smoothly on into LOTR.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 4 2012, 8:31pm

Post #68 of 112 (728 views)
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Film 3 will likely include more than BOFA, IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

My guess is that PJ ends film 1 earlier than expected. Either before Beorn, or before Mirkwood. But I may be wrong.

This would give far more meat to film 2 and 3. It will also balance out the films in terms of Bilbo's participation.


Bladerunner
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 10:21pm

Post #69 of 112 (685 views)
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Film 3 has other key events.... [In reply to] Can't Post

In addition to the auction at Bag End scene,
another crucial scene that can't be underestimated is the moment when Bilbo reveals to Gandalf how he "appropriated" the ring from Gollum.
I'm very much looking forward to how this moment is treated by Jackson and interpreted by McKellen and Freeman.
I suspect it will happen either after the battle or in Rivendell during the "back again" journey.

In a two-film structure such scenes may not have been given the proper attention by the general audience suffering through 3-hr movie fatigue (aka - TME! - "To Many Endings!").
With a third film Jackson has the luxury to dwell a little bit more on these key character development moments.

On a different note (and as I've posted in the past), I'm still curious too see if Jackson will change when and how and if Bilbo reveals the ring to the dwarves.


(This post was edited by Bladerunner on Aug 4 2012, 10:28pm)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 4 2012, 10:25pm

Post #70 of 112 (637 views)
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Good article [In reply to] Can't Post

John Rhys-Davies in NZ possibly reprising hid Gimli role, to me is a clue this was planned or at the very least discussed far prior to the actual announcement.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 5 2012, 3:06am

Post #71 of 112 (607 views)
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Contents [In reply to] Can't Post

When I first heard that PJ was intending to make two films of the Hobbit I couldn't see how it could be done, at least without producing something aimed at fans who can never get enough while alienating everyone else with a slow and indulgent fairy tale. On the other hand there's certainly a lot else going on in Middle Earth at the same time but making the quest of the Hobbit dramatically central to those events poses story-telling challenges.

The original poster certainly shows what's there and available but except for die-hard fans it isn't relevant to the quest itself. Moreover the poster doesn't touch on what are, for me, two major elements the Hobbit is going to have to deal with to succeed.

1. Why does Gandalf choose Bilbo the Hobbit to be the burglar? Tolkien never explains this, that I'm aware of. Moreover had it not been for Bilbo's purely fortuitous finding of the Ring and the trick of invisibility it gives him, allowing him to actually succeed in his 'job' as burglar, is it really likely Bilbo would have pulled it off? Certainly Gandalf does not know Bilbo is going to find the Ring, as even at the beginning of LotR he still doesn't know what it is Bilbo found. To me this can only be 'pulled together' if Gandalf in the Hobbit is setting up the conditions for a fulfilment of prophecy - a prophecy dealing not so much with with Smaug and the Dwarves return to Erebor but Frodo's quest to destroy the Ring, defeat Sauron and end the Third Age. After all, for Middle Earth history and LotR by far the most significant event of the Hobbit is the finding of the One Ring although in the book itself this is a relatively underplayed event.

Unfortunately 'Prophecy' as a device does not feature much in Tolkien's writings - IMHO the closest we get to it in LotR is the Mirror of Galadriel, while Elrond's many visions of the possible future most of which showed Sauron's victory and Arwen/Aragorn unconsummated are a PJ addition .

In 'Fellowship' Gandalf tells Frodo that he was 'meant' to have the Ring but I believe that's also a PJ addition, not in the original. However it must be significant that in LotR Frodo's quest only succeeds because, perhaps alone of the denzins of Middle Earth, a Hobbit was the only race or culture which would have let Gollum live, while in the Hobbit the Ring was won not by an act of violence - the only time it isn't - but in a Hobbitish riddle game (tho' in truth Bilbo's winning question would have been ruled out of order in most quizzes, hence the ring was won by a cheat.).

Hence I think it inescapable that for some reason Gandalf becomes aware that the fate of the world depends on a Hobbit going on Thorin's quest. The how and why of it he doesn't know, and he doesn't even make sense of it when Bilbo returns. However the ultimate defeat of Sauron 'requires' that the One Ring come into the possession of the Hobbits in such a way that Gollum survives the initial encounter - and any another race coming across Gollum as Bilbo did would just have killed him and taken the Ring . This can be done because of some 'foresight' by Galadriel that 'the world is poised in balance on Erebor's peak and the smallest must become great to prevent it's fall' but which must obviously not be too explicit forcing Gandalf to 'take a punt' that it means a Hobbit has to go with Thorin on his quest. But then why Bilbo of all the Hobbits? However all this will need to be established at some point, by showing Galadriel's 'revelation', her discussing it with Gandalf and Gandalf's speculation as to what it means and requires.

2. Tauriel. PJ knows the story/film needs a romance - and in a major way. LotR without Arwen would just be a "Boy's Own" adventure. So we have Tauriel and... who? From what we know of the cast only Bard currently fits this role, Legolas being ruled out apparently. PJ won't repeat the Aragon/Arwen plot yet the tensions of elf/human romance are surely too powerful not to pursue, which leaves? Beren and Luthien, of course. So will we have Tolkien's wonderful Beren/Luthien story echoed in Bard/Tauriel? (Beren/Bard Tinuviel/Tauriel?) There would be plenty of scope for echoes of Beren/Luthien's quest for the Silmaril in the Hobbit story - the Necromancer and Smaug etc. - so my money's on it.

However to be a romance in a major way it needs to arc across all three films, which means we need to have met both characters before the end of film one. This is not a problem for Tauriel who we'll meet in Mirkwood, but Bard = Laketown which we aren't likely to get to until film two so my money's on Bard being in Mirkwood where he sees Tinuviel dancing in a glade a'la Beren, and on them both becoming involved in the quest.


Phibbus
Rohan


Aug 5 2012, 3:17am

Post #72 of 112 (599 views)
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Still not sure about that third film... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a bit leery that the author can't seem to avoid analytical filler in order to beef up the written length of prognostication for the last film to match the other two.

The best I can say for this piece is that it argues for a split at the capture by the wood elves rather than after the barrel escape. That's always made much more sense to me, if doing any splitting in the first place. It then becomes the typical "carbonite" cliffhanger ending followed by an Indiana Jones rollercoaster escape opening for the next film.

The worst... "This battle could easily last for easily an hour or more on screen." If that's the case, I would hope, like the hero, to get fortuitously bonked on the head so as to miss most of it.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 5 2012, 3:22am

Post #73 of 112 (576 views)
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Film 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

It will be fleshed out a lot more especially Dol Guldur and the cleansing of Mirkwood, which will become less a subplot and become a much more promient part of the story.


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 5 2012, 3:24am

Post #74 of 112 (605 views)
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Interesting theory about Bard and Tauriel... [In reply to] Can't Post

a substantial first post in general.

Do you think Gandalf, rather than foreseeing Bilbo finding The One Ring, simply had a hunch that Bilbo figured heavily in the fate of Middle-earth? As he said to Frodo:

"Hobbits really are amazing creatures, as I have said before. You can learn all there is to know about them in a month, and yet after a hundred years they can still surprise you at a pinch."

Or, do you think the film makers will somehow make the case that the Ring drew Bilbo into the adventure as a harmless courier in order to deliver itself to Sauron (who it seems will be at the Bo5A)?

Welcome to TORn Lurker!


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 5 2012, 3:30am

Post #75 of 112 (570 views)
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Isn't Bard married? [In reply to] Can't Post

He has a son in the movie supposedly doesn't he?


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!

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