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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Three Films" News will have No Effect on Film One
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DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 7:25pm

Post #26 of 120 (673 views)
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Well ... we will have to agree to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's fine - we will have lots of different strands (characters and plots) that all pulled together at the BO5A.

There won't be one narrative, there will be lots of different sub-plots, which, in my opinions, sounds great - it all culminates in a massive battle.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 7:28pm

Post #27 of 120 (707 views)
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I'd always thought that the majority of the Dol Guldur sub-plot in film 1 [In reply to] Can't Post

was composed mainly by White Council meetings. We know there is at least one meeting in Rivendell, and that Gandalf goes to Rhosgobel. I suspect the end of film 1 will be Gandalf entering Dol Guldur - perhaps discovering the true identity of the Necromancer?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 7:35pm

Post #28 of 120 (680 views)
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I hope that the films don't mess with Tolkien's timeline too much... [In reply to] Can't Post

I truly detest the idea that Gandalf discovers the identity of the Necromancer withing the timeframe of the films. Prior to the announcement of the third film, I could see the assault on Dol Guldur occuring either late in part one or early in part two. Now I am certain that it will be in part two with the consequences still playing out into the third film.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Aug 3 2012, 8:05pm

Post #29 of 120 (651 views)
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Agreed! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 8:07pm

Post #30 of 120 (635 views)
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It's really hard to say [In reply to] Can't Post

They've got a lot to play with, so who knows how the final plot will turn out. Crazy


Lissuin
Tol Eressea


Aug 3 2012, 8:27pm

Post #31 of 120 (712 views)
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Conspiracy theorists - get a life! [In reply to] Can't Post

What was Production Video #8? An verrrry elaborate ploy? An excuse to drink champagne out of plastic cups? Just a wishful thinking day to write "Last Day of Filming" on clapper boards? All those fake hugs. The staged group photo session (maybe the faked moon landing photos were produced by the precursor of Weta Digital!!!!!).
Yes, definitely a set up.

Sad sad.


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Aug 3 2012, 9:02pm

Post #32 of 120 (665 views)
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No conspiracy, just reality [In reply to] Can't Post

The appearance of a third film has nothing to do with the end of filming celebration. Even with a third film, there isn't going to be a ton of new scenes. A month or more of pick-up shots were already in the works for 2013 so what has actually changed? A few more weeks maybe? That's all.

Now a question for you: you honestly believe that a third film doesn't change the contracts of many of the people in front of the camera or behind the scenes? What about the contracts with the studios and distributors? Again, these are not things that get worked out 'in a couple of weeks.'

(This post was edited by Black Breathalizer on Aug 3 2012, 9:03pm)


Snaga
Lorien


Aug 3 2012, 9:02pm

Post #33 of 120 (656 views)
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I think it was probably a combination of things that spawned the 3rd film [In reply to] Can't Post

I also suspect, and don't flame me for this, that it had it's roots way back during the writing process. I'm sure they assembled and storyboarded material from The Hobbit, and then began pulling from LOTR and the appendices for material for the Dol Guldur storyline and background stuff on Erebor, the Dwarves and Dale and so on. They likely pulled and scripted a lot of this because at that stage they wouldn't have been exactly certain how it would compress when filmed and exactly how they would seed it throughout both films.

I believe what happened is that at some point as the editing process for film one began Peter, Fran and Phillipa started to realize that they had filmed some material and done pre-production on other material that was really damned good, and that they had no room for it in the two films as they were planned. It would have been around this time they began to seriously float a third film option.

Of course all of this is just wild speculation on my part, but my gut tells me things kind of fell together as Peter described and wasn't some long plot. If for no other reason than it would have been risky and less efficient.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 3 2012, 9:08pm

Post #34 of 120 (604 views)
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And how do you know these things? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 3 2012, 10:09pm

Post #35 of 120 (583 views)
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I think "Barrels out of Bond" will remain the end of movie #1 ...+1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Me too.

Jackson flat out said said in his blog or on Facebook, I don't recall which, that they were watching the rough cut edit of Film 2 when they came to the decision to make a 3rd film. I don't think film 1 will change much if at all. Mostly because its too late to do so.

This leads me to think more of the subplot of Dol Guldur will be expanded into part two now to flesh it out more.

Along with a 3rd film, I am also hoping for more Dwarven backstory, flashbacks, or prologue


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 3 2012, 10:10pm

Post #36 of 120 (638 views)
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Contracts? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure this does involve contractual changes. Voronwe says it does and he knows the legal side. But because I don't, I'm not going to build theories on the length of time it must take. In many cases it will surely be a case of extending an existing contract and if both parties are in agreement I don't see why that would take long. For all I know, now the change to three films has been agreed and the announcement has been made the legal business is proceeding behind the scenes.

Now, far as the extra filming goes, this is a quotation from what Peter Jackson said at Comic-con:


Quote
Eventually Philippa [Boyens] and Fran [Walsh] and I have been talking to the studio about other things that we haven’t been able to shoot and seeing if we could possibly persuade them to do a few more weeks of shooting. It’ll be more than a few weeks actually, a bit of shooting, additional shooting next year. What form that will end up taking, the discussions are pretty early so there isn’t anything to report. But certainly there’s other parts of the story that we’d like to tell that we haven’t had a chance to tell yet. So we’re just trying to have those conversations with the studio at the moment.


"More than a few weeks. . . a bit of shooting. . . . additional shooting. . . the discussions are pretty early. . ." Are you seriously saying that here speaks a man who actually knows that he's shooting three films and has known it since way back in pre-production? And knows that he doesn't really need to shoot extra scenes at all, it's all an elaborate pantomime. For why? What could possibly be the point?

Sorry, I'm really not getting at you here, I'm just baffled by the assertion that all this is some elaborate hoax. So here's a question for you: if they've known all along that they were making three films, why would they keep it secret until now?


Snaga
Lorien


Aug 3 2012, 10:32pm

Post #37 of 120 (603 views)
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I wouldn't surmise much on the need to negotiate & produce new contracts [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Now a question for you: you honestly believe that a third film doesn't change the contracts of many of the people in front of the camera or behind the scenes? What about the contracts with the studios and distributors? Again, these are not things that get worked out 'in a couple of weeks.'



After all through his association with WB Peter probably has enough lawyers at his disposal to draw up instant contracts for half the sheep in New Zealand.

Remember how fast Viggo was brought into the production. Wasn't he in NZ getting wardrobe and wig done in something less than four days after he received his first call from Peter?

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir


Istaris'staffs
Rivendell


Aug 3 2012, 10:33pm

Post #38 of 120 (548 views)
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I'm glad you posted this... [In reply to] Can't Post

Because there has been a ton of talk on here about where the new break of film one will be...which hasn't made a lot of since to me. I guess this isn't much of a big deal, but the wallpaper generator still is up and it ends with the barrels out of bond. It would be strange to end film one differently when there has already been a lot of promotion for film one. I think there's still a lot of material for two movies, and I think that many are underestimating how much the Dol Gulder sub plot will be inplamented into the second film especially.


Voronw_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 3 2012, 10:34pm

Post #39 of 120 (590 views)
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Many references to new contracts [In reply to] Can't Post

For instance, in this article in EW before the news became official they state: "EW has confirmed that serious discussions between Jackson and Warner Bros. are indeed taking place to explore the possibility of turning The Hobbit into a trilogy. Before you get too excited, though, there are several major hurdles that would need to be cleared before this could become a reality: Among other things, new deals would need to be worked out with the cast." I continue to maintain that there is no way that those new deals, as well as the necessary agreements between Jackson and the studios, and between the different studios, could possibly have been negotiated and completed in a the space of a few weeks. Things just don't happen that way. This had to have been in the works over the course of several months, at the least.

I'm not saying it is a big conspiracy, just that they are not being totally upfront about how this has all gone down. Which is par for the course.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 10:38pm

Post #40 of 120 (568 views)
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I think the possibility of a third film [In reply to] Can't Post

probably arose months ago among the production team and the studio - not last month when a "rumour" appeared at Comic-Con. I suspect the the rumour was planted deliberately.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 3 2012, 10:42pm

Post #41 of 120 (551 views)
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Not so sure [In reply to] Can't Post

My guess is that film 1 will end with the eagle rescue from the burning trees, meaning that Goblins and Wargs will be the key threats. Likely it will end with the camera panning up revealing Mirkwood in the distance, and the Lonely Mountain off in the far, far distance, as at the end of FOTR. I think Bilbo's heroic moment for film 1 will be his confrontation with Gollum, and his daring escape from the goblin tunnels.

This means no Beorn until film 2.

That's my guess.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Aug 3 2012, 10:43pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 10:46pm

Post #42 of 120 (557 views)
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I'd put money on that film 1 doesn't end before they enter Mirkwood / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 3 2012, 10:47pm

Post #43 of 120 (545 views)
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I'd bet money too [In reply to] Can't Post

Plus it's just too late to change film 1 IMHO ... too much to do!!!


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 3 2012, 10:49pm

Post #44 of 120 (539 views)
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The eagle escape is a perfect dramatic ending [In reply to] Can't Post

Entering a dark forest, after a peaceful encounter with a generally friendly Beorn, is not.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 10:57pm

Post #45 of 120 (528 views)
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I'm not saying end the film between Beorn and Mirkwood [In reply to] Can't Post

But there is no way the film will finish *before* Mirkwood (the western side)

The attack of the spiders, and the consequent separation, would also make a perfect ending.

Edit: It also mirrors Fellowship of the Ring, to some extent:

Orc attack in Moria & Balrog = Escape from Misty Mountains & eagle rescue
Galadriel = Beorn
Amon Hen attack & breaking of the Fellowship = Mirkwood attack & breaking of the company


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 3 2012, 11:02pm)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Aug 3 2012, 11:04pm

Post #46 of 120 (555 views)
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Read PJ's announcement [In reply to] Can't Post

They didn't see a problem until they got into what was going to be film 2.
Film 1 will stay the same and end at Barrels out of Bond +/-


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 3 2012, 11:10pm

Post #47 of 120 (519 views)
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Anywhere in Mirkwood would be a good time to stop [In reply to] Can't Post

There are plenty of opportunities. I can see Thranduil being move to film 2, just for padding that film out.

My point is, that film 1 will end somewhere in Mirkwood.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Aug 3 2012, 11:40pm

Post #48 of 120 (493 views)
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end [In reply to] Can't Post

As Guillermo and pj said way back, the first film ends at a point where Bilbo's relationship with the dwarves changes...i believe some members here contributed to Guillermos decision....

Now that could be the spider rescue...after Golin tunnels...or Barrels...the strongest would be barrels ...but that, in my view, is too much plot for film 1 if were going to have a trilogy now...


lurtz2010
Rohan

Aug 3 2012, 11:42pm

Post #49 of 120 (508 views)
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how could it possibly end at the eagles rescue? that's barely half a movie [In reply to] Can't Post

It's just way too early, anything before the spiders in Mirkwood would be too early. Imagine it... The Shire, Trolls, Rivendell/White Council, Mountain paths, goblins, Gollum, wolves and trees with perhaps a few flashbacks in there... compare that to all the stuff in FOTR. I doubt PJ would've put out that Scroll just a few days before announcing 3 films.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 4 2012, 12:15am

Post #50 of 120 (480 views)
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The Eagle Escape would leave a weak first film.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket


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