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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Revisiting Bilbo's Contract

DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 14 2012, 9:36pm

Post #1 of 72 (12002 views)
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Revisiting Bilbo's Contract Can't Post

I came across this blog today that had recently come across a very high-resolution picture of Bilbo and his "contract", given to him by the Dwarves after arriving at Bag End. The blogger has been able to decipher (pretty well) the wording of much of the document. Naturally, people will disagree/have suggestions of some of the words/phrases/omissons, but thought I would post it. I know it has been discussed before, but I think this is the best we've ever got.

http://thorinoakenshield.net/...ing-dwarf-documents/

I think he has done a pretty good job (considering).

Also, if the majority of the deciphering is correct, I'm quite happy with the contract Wink I hope Bilbo is too!!


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Feb 14 2012, 10:09pm

Post #2 of 72 (3085 views)
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I <3 geeks! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


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Carne
Tol Eressea

Feb 14 2012, 10:41pm

Post #3 of 72 (2972 views)
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Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post

That's really impressive Smile


Lauryn
Bree

Feb 14 2012, 11:05pm

Post #4 of 72 (2870 views)
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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

That's amazing....

Some one has a little too much time on their hands... that being said...Awesome!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 14 2012, 11:32pm

Post #5 of 72 (3077 views)
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As geeked-out as I am [In reply to] Can't Post

that someone has taken so much time to translate as much of that contract as the images allowed, I'm even *more* geeked out that the Weta designers wrote a contract in the Dwarf language that could actually be read! Those guys rock!

[which (?) are described collectively herein as the Adventure]

And they even employ Tolkien's wonderful use of random capitilisation. Heart

Burglar understands and agrees to maintain this knowledge
in utmost secrecy and confidentiality and to neither divulge nor make known
said knowledge by any means, including but not limited to speech, writing
demonstration, re-enactment, (?) or storage and retrieval within means
or (?) currently known or (?) or as yet unthought of.

How appropriate that Dwarves, being such gifted creators of objects as they are, take into account any future inventions that could aid the dissemination of information. :D

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Milknut
Rohan


Feb 15 2012, 12:48am

Post #6 of 72 (2839 views)
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Awwww! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nerds! Heart

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 15 2012, 1:14am

Post #7 of 72 (2896 views)
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Imagine how much fun [In reply to] Can't Post

the Weta folk had crafting the language, then translating it. I want to have that kind of job Sly


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 15 2012, 1:52am

Post #8 of 72 (2843 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I believe the contract, as shown in this shot, is written in English, not dwarven.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 2:29am

Post #9 of 72 (2810 views)
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*kerplop!* [In reply to] Can't Post

OMG! I'm staggered! Not just at the effort and geekiness and genius of this work, but that this blogger has highlighted what I already knew... but took for granted. That the massive detail that's going into these films is mind-blowing!!

I was jaw-dropped in awe as I read through this entire blog, the contract, the pictures and delightful generosity sharing this with everyone!

I'm just overwhelmed! BRILLIANT!!!!


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




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Unused Scenes



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 15 2012, 3:13am

Post #10 of 72 (2836 views)
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I have never [In reply to] Can't Post

paid much notice to the written languages of Middle-earth as my mind doesn't bend that way, but I love how so many people can read Tolkien's letters.

At The Hobbit stage play in Wellington (2005, I think, during Wellingmoot), two of the TORNadoes I was with were giggling away madly: They had realised that the large writing on part of the set was incorrect. Gotta love those girls!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 15 2012, 3:23am

Post #11 of 72 (2927 views)
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Yes, it's in English. [In reply to] Can't Post

Which substitutes for Westron in the movies. I wonder if Daniel Reeve developed the script? It's different from the one used by Bilbo and Frodo, and seems reminiscent of Old English script.

Note how the "B" in all instances of "Burglar" has a starting upper "tail" to the letter, giving a "flourish" to the word, thereby emphasizing it!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Thorins_apprentice
Rohan

Feb 15 2012, 3:53am

Post #12 of 72 (2799 views)
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Impressive stuff Daniel.|!! [In reply to] Can't Post

ShockedI am not even going to ask how you did that.All i'll say is you are a genius,:))

We are more connected than ever before, more able to spread our ideas and beliefs, our anger and fears. As we exercise the right to advocate our views, and as we animate our supporters, we must all assume responsibility for our words and actions before they enter a vast echo chamber and reach those both serious and delirious, connected and unhinged.



(This post was edited by Thorins_apprentice on Feb 15 2012, 3:54am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 15 2012, 4:05am

Post #13 of 72 (2796 views)
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This really belongs on the home page. [In reply to] Can't Post

With the care the author took it really deserves wider attention.


Macfeast
Rohan

Feb 15 2012, 4:28am

Post #14 of 72 (2813 views)
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First of... [In reply to] Can't Post

...taking the time to decipher this much of the contract is quite the impressive task. This is dedication right here.

Secondly, that the team made sure to make this an actual contract, even though only the most dedicated fans would actually find that out, does not surprise me. Their attention to detail is still superb.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Feb 15 2012, 4:33am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 8:39am

Post #15 of 72 (2693 views)
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Yeah, it probably does [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just so impressed the time this person has taken to do it!


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 8:40am

Post #16 of 72 (2829 views)
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Unfortunately [In reply to] Can't Post

It wasn't done by me. I wish I could take full credit (Tongue) but I just stumbled across the blog. Has nothing to do with me!!


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Feb 15 2012, 8:41am)


miriel
Registered User

Feb 15 2012, 12:25pm

Post #17 of 72 (2670 views)
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deciphering [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! Impressive :D

speaking of deciphering, have anyone gotten anywhere with the rhunes above the door in the Hobbit trailer? (at approximately 01.36)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Feb 15 2012, 2:17pm

Post #18 of 72 (2624 views)
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But you did an impressive job ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... of a bringing it to our attention. Smile Thanks!

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Feb 15 2012, 2:43pm

Post #19 of 72 (2577 views)
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A mere internet will not do. A new kind of special price must be granted for this fan [In reply to] Can't Post

for Special Achievement In Geekiness.

<3 Gandy, Raddy, Sharkey, Ally & Pally <3


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Feb 15 2012, 3:27pm

Post #20 of 72 (2614 views)
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Here is a great deciphering runes from trailer thread for everyone, and could anyone see if they can work out any more?: [In reply to] Can't Post

http://newboards.theonering.net/..._reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


We got somewhere but not that far sadly.......

"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"

___________


Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!


Elven
Valinor


Feb 15 2012, 3:49pm

Post #21 of 72 (2532 views)
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Just rushing in to say ... WOWWWWW!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am so impressed!!! Amazing!
Good on you! and Lucky us!
WOOT!


Tookish Hobbit Girl
The Shire


Feb 15 2012, 4:42pm

Post #22 of 72 (2517 views)
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Wow, Impressive [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that's what I call dedication! I'm so glad he took the time to do that. Thanks for sharing! ( :

"if most of us valued food & cheer & song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world."

-J.R.R. Tolkien


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 5:42pm

Post #23 of 72 (2488 views)
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*tig* ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
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TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Feb 15 2012, 6:27pm

Post #24 of 72 (2468 views)
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Good find! [In reply to] Can't Post

And Shocked to the guy for that awesome work!

However, I've been wondering and worrying about that absurdly long document that Bilbo was holding ever since I saw the picture for the first time.

Call me a purest (and you will) but I don't think the film needs the sight gag of Bilbo trying to parcel thru a huge contract. Prof. Tolkien did it right the first time . . . short and sweet.

The book has so much humor to exploit, they didn't need to go for such an obvious gag.

A big BOO to the writers on this one.

"I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me!"

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 6:35pm

Post #25 of 72 (2469 views)
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I wonder.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder where this contract will end up. Do you reckon that Bilbo will keep hold of it during the entire adventure, as a reference/guidance on what he should and should not do.


stormcrow20
Gondor


Feb 15 2012, 6:43pm

Post #26 of 72 (1302 views)
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Amazing! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the attention to detail, by the filmmakers and the decipherer. Well done! And many thanks for posting it here, DanielLB!

After reading this amazing blog, I suggest taking a look at the more humorous interpretations of the contract by our members in last month's Caption Contest.



Good Morning!



Gollum the Great
Rohan


Feb 15 2012, 7:08pm

Post #27 of 72 (1299 views)
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wow... just wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

Geeks rock.

I'm not sure which is more amazing - the fact that Weta actually wrote out this whole contract in proper dwarven style and all, or the fact that someone took the time to figure out what it says.

(do you think Weta knew someone would actually try to figure out what it says?)

Lord Sméagol? Gollum the Great? The Gollum! Eat fish every day, three times a day; fresh from the sea. Most Precious Gollum!


JustLuthien
Registered User

Feb 15 2012, 7:08pm

Post #28 of 72 (1319 views)
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language [In reply to] Can't Post

If the contract were in the dwarves' language, Bilbo would not be able to read it - more likely, it would have been written in Westron, the common tongue. In Tolkien's version of MIddle Earth, dwarves were very secretive, esp about their culture, etc.; that said, it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson did write it in 'dwarve-ese.' I just stick such alterations in file 13 with all of his other root alterations like the elven warrior princesses, Aragorn being tossed over a cliff... I guess more than just the road goes on forever.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 8:03pm

Post #29 of 72 (1285 views)
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I've wondered that, too! [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo carried Thorin's letter with him throughout the Quest and used it to confirm his portion of the treasure when he's talking the Bard and Thranduil, so I'd always thought that he carried his contract, too. BUT the size of this one makes me think he'd leave it behind and just carry the letter as his proof.

Actually... did Bilbo ever sign the contract? ;) From his comment here, I'd say yeah... but seeing that he thought the morning the Quest started and the Dwarves were gone, he didn't seem to think he was supposed to be going... making breakfast and clearing up and all. It'll be fun to see how they handle it in the film! In the trailer when he's chasing after the Dwarves, he's got the contract flailing behind him and firmly grasped in his hand!

Oh geez... this is gonna be fun!! :D



Quote

"Really you know," Bilbo was saying in his best business manner, "things are impossible. Personally I am tired of the whole affair. I wish I was back in the West in my own home, where folk are more reasonable. But I have an interest in this matter—one fourteenth share, to be precise, according to a letter, which fortunately I believe I have kept." He drew from a pocket in his old jacket (which he still wore over his mail), crumpled and much folded, Thorin's letter that had been put under the clock on his mantelpiece in May!



sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Feb 15 2012, 8:06pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 15 2012, 8:09pm

Post #30 of 72 (1260 views)
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Yeah!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I can imagine PJ wanting a little scene with Bilbo pulling out the contract in the dungeons of Thranduil's Halls (all crumpled and stained), saying that coming up with a plan to save the Dwarves wasn't in the contract!

Not in the book, but would be great!


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Feb 15 2012, 8:54pm

Post #31 of 72 (1290 views)
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Or even a pur-i-st... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Yeah I think you may be right on this one......it is terribly OTT.......even has scribbled in clauses in every spare space practically.......

buuuuut oh vell.....

Smile

"I would draw some of the great tales in fullness, and leave many only placed in the scheme, and sketched. The cycles should be linked to a majestic whole, and yet leave scope for other minds and hands, wielding paint and music and drama"

___________


Let us then continue Tolkien's Legendarium!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Feb 15 2012, 9:01pm

Post #32 of 72 (1312 views)
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While it is cliché, I think it capture's Thorin's character well... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's said in the book that Thorin likes to go on for hours about important matters. So it seems fitting that he'd leave a huge contract for Bilbo rather than a short note. It also gives the sense of Bilbo being well out of his depth on the adventure. I'm fine with it Smile

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"

(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Feb 15 2012, 9:02pm)


Macfeast
Rohan

Feb 15 2012, 9:13pm

Post #33 of 72 (1268 views)
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Plus... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's kind of an early visual cue to establish the dwarves as the "calculating folk with a great idea of the value of money" that they are described as later.

For my part, I love it. The idea of them going to great lengths to make a contract that covers all bases, seems very fitting, IMO. Definitely a change I support.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Feb 15 2012, 9:15pm)


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Feb 15 2012, 11:12pm

Post #34 of 72 (1199 views)
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Puree-ist? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

"I am Gandalf, and Gandalf means me!"

The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


squire
Half-elven


Feb 16 2012, 1:32am

Post #35 of 72 (1230 views)
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I am surprised that it is in English [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the great jokes of The Hobbit is that the runes on the endpaper map of the Lonely Mountain actually transliterate into English. It took me two reviews of the blog before I realized that the lettering on the prop contract was actually the Latin alphabet - I had just assumed the film would take advantage of Tolkien's easy-to-use gag runes. (Needless to say, the film audience will not have to read the contract, so why not follow Tolkien's lead here? LotR's Moria was not filled with fake-looking Old English style letters, but honest Dwarven runes)

I agree that the prop department had fun with writing a contract that by design had to be so long as to be funny, when seen spilling out of Bilbo's hands. Part I (as the blog breaks it down) is obviously straight from the non-disclosure agreement that the cast and crew had to sign before working on the film - thus the bit about future technologies was already written, by the production company's lawyers!

Excellent photo-analysis work by DarkJackal!

But I am disturbed by the close-up of Richard Armitage as Thorin at the top of that blog. Maybe I never studied his make-up before, but I find the eerie smoothness of his skin very disturbing. Young or old, Thorin Oakenshield's face should have some "character" - some lines and creases, some roughness and weathering, some pores, some hair. Tolkien's Thorin is a venerable dwarf-lord who has done forge work for many decades, and traveled outdoors or lived in rock caves all his life, and struggled with life and death decisions about his people. This Thorin, up close, looks like a modern day model or film actor in all his glorious cosmetic perfection.



squire online:
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haddock
Registered User

Feb 16 2012, 6:55am

Post #36 of 72 (1184 views)
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Part G: more words [In reply to] Can't Post

"Meals to be provided (or not) at the sole discretion of the Director,
............... for ..., ...., or any special dietary
requirements not disclosed at the outset"

Now it's making sense! The change from "Means" to "Meals" provides a vital clue for this section. So we find that dwarves and hobbits share the trait of attaching special importance to the subject of food.... ;-)

Note to DarkJackal: Congrats on a magnificent job so far. Tolkien would have admired the philological skills and the exercise in textual criticism. I hope you agree with my additions. On the basis of the fact they include 2 newly-deciphered words containing the letter "l", I might suggest that you pay extra attention to this admittedly rather elusive (and faintly drawn) letter. Could be useful in deciphering other words!

(The decoding continues....)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 7:50am

Post #37 of 72 (1178 views)
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The letter's NOT written in dwarven style, it's in Hobbit style [In reply to] Can't Post

Or rather, "mock" Hobbit style.

Thorin was, in essence, poking fun at the "hobbitish" way of doing and agreeing to things, which was very much officious, well-ordered, businesslike, highly prosaic, and all written down proper, with the i's dotted and the t's crossed.

The dwarven style is, as we know, poetic, emotional, passionate and heroic. They don't quite tell Bilbo what the adventure is about, they sing it, and they do so in a way that inspires wonderful (and terrible) thoughts in Bilbo.

The contract is, in many ways, a joke at Bilbo's expense. There is very little at all "dwarven" about it.

This is another great example of Tolkien's humor, which simultaneously says something about the very different "modes" of the characters Bilbo and Thorin.

Bilbo starts as the "modern everyman" type and Thorin is the more ancient, heroic type. And the latter has contempt for the former.

All you really need is the contract to prove it!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 7:53am

Post #38 of 72 (1185 views)
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The contract [In reply to] Can't Post

Says more about Bilbo than it does about the dwarves. It was written in that way as a not-so-subtle dig at "hobbitishness."

It is a very un-dwarvish document.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 7:56am

Post #39 of 72 (1137 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

But I hope PJ and company treat the contract for what it is - Thorin's rather sarcastic attempt to produce a "hobbitish" document.

It is hobbits that go for that sort of thing (everything written down neat and proper) not dwarves.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 8:00am

Post #40 of 72 (1156 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

The contract from the book is short, sweet, and hilarious.

However, I'm not too concerned about this. In some ways, it may strengthen a joke that might otherwise sail over a lay audience's head.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 16 2012, 8:43am

Post #41 of 72 (1131 views)
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We see Bilbo taking the contract with him in the trailer... [In reply to] Can't Post

... it's flying in his hand as he runs along and pants "Wait!" Smile

ETA: Linkie to screencap.



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.

(This post was edited by Earl on Feb 16 2012, 8:44am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 16 2012, 11:15am

Post #42 of 72 (1109 views)
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Yeppers! [In reply to] Can't Post

Flailing and flying in his speed!!! *snigger* This is gonna be great!


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 16 2012, 11:15am

Post #43 of 72 (1133 views)
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Oh cripes... [In reply to] Can't Post

they could have so much fun with this! Good One! :D


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



squire
Half-elven


Feb 16 2012, 11:59am

Post #44 of 72 (1148 views)
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No, it's in Dwarven style [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Tolkien's joke is that his Dwarves, though seemingly out of a fairy-tale, can be as officious and long-winded as any provincial British councilman. The letter is distinctly in Thorin's business-style, which was revealed at the party the night before:
“We are met to discuss our plans, our ways, means, policy and devices. We shall soon before the break of day start on our long journey, a journey from which some of us, or perhaps all of us (except our friend and counsellor, the ingenious wizard Gandalf) may never return. It is a solemn moment. Our object is, I take it, well known to us all. To the estimable Mr. Baggins, and perhaps to one or two of the younger dwarves (I think I should be right in naming Kili and Fili, for instance), the exact situation at the moment may require a little brief explanation-”
This was Thorin’s style. He was an important dwarf. If he had been allowed, he would probably have gone on like this until he was out of breath, without telling any one there anything that was not known already.
(The Hobbit, 1)
There's no real difference between such speech, and the letter that is Bilbo's contract:
“Thorin and Company to Burglar Bilbo greeting!
For your hospitality our sincerest thanks, and for your offer of professional assistance our grateful acceptance. Terms: cash on delivery, up to and not exceeding one fourteenth of total profits (if any); all traveling expenses guaranteed in any event; funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives, if occasion arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.

“Thinking it unnecessary to disturb your esteemed repose, we have proceeded in advance to make requisite preparations, and shall await your respected person at the Green Dragon Inn, Bywater, at 11 a.m. sharp. Trusting that you will be punctual.

“We have the honour to remain

“Yours deeply

“Thorin & Co.”
(The Hobbit, 2)
The Dwarves do have a romantic side to them, as you note: the remarkable song that reveals a side of them that has been hidden throughout the Unexpected Party. But I don't think we can say that Thorin is "poking fun" at Bilbo with his prosaic way of speaking and contracting for burglary services. The story is a comedy, and it is Tolkien who is poking fun at our belief that Dwarves are inherently romantic. Throughout the story, they remain fussy, whiny, indecisive, and at times foolish, at least as much as they convey any sense of being "ancient and heroic."

I have no idea whether the films will pick up on this deep irony or not. The long contract that we are discussing here, while well-executed as a prop and an obvious sight gag, actually has nothing at all to do with the equivalent item in Tolkien's book.



squire online:
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Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 16 2012, 12:00pm

Post #45 of 72 (1196 views)
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Glad to see you all were interested [In reply to] Can't Post

I figured you guys would enjoy this, but not to the level you've shown in the comments! Thank you all for your kind words, and even for the offers of therapy. I had been trying to do this with the smaller quality pics and did not get far, so it was a bit of a thrill (such a geek) when I found I could read much more of it with these images. I will be taking all of the suggestions I've read into account, and updating the post as soon as I get time.

Oh, and I just wanted to say that I hate to disappoint you boys, but I must claim this supremely dorky endeavor for the fairer sex, although I'm glad I don't always sound like a hopeless fangurl. Sly


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 16 2012, 1:11pm

Post #46 of 72 (1130 views)
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Welcome to TORn DarkJackal [In reply to] Can't Post

Before I praise you for all your hard work, I must say sorry, as I originally put in my post "he" rather than finding out if you were a "she" Blush

But anyway, I just want to say a massive thanks for spending so much time deciphering this picture! It definitely feeds my need for spoilers in this drought! It will tide us over until the next report/vlog!

Thanks so much, and hope your time at TORn will be enjoyable Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 16 2012, 1:16pm

Post #47 of 72 (1167 views)
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Oh, and we also have another job for you! [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you feel about deciphering this for us Wink

http://newboards.theonering.net/...t_reply;so=ASC;mh=25;


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Feb 16 2012, 1:19pm

Post #48 of 72 (1159 views)
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In your opinion... [In reply to] Can't Post

That is there's no real evidence as to whether either species uses or doesn't use contracts. I don't think it was on Tolkien's list of priorities to mention anyone preferring contracts over anyone else, and as such all comment is entirely subjective as to whether this contract is hobbitish or dwarvish. In my opinion, dwarves would like contracts (being organised mining folk - and coming from a king) and hobbits would prefer a more informal short letter (being a more laid-back community run by a modest mayor) All PJ is doing is removing Thorin's attempt at being hobbitish and replacing it with a more in-character contract. (In my opinion)

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Feb 16 2012, 4:30pm

Post #49 of 72 (1149 views)
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Welcome and well met! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your blogs is great. I've tumbled upon it before and it's interesting to read.

<3 Gandy, Raddy, Sharkey, Ally & Pally <3


DrunkenMime
Registered User

Feb 16 2012, 8:07pm

Post #50 of 72 (1107 views)
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I agree! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And Shocked to the guy for that awesome work!

However, I've been wondering and worrying about that absurdly long document that Bilbo was holding ever since I saw the picture for the first time.

Call me a purest (and you will) but I don't think the film needs the sight gag of Bilbo trying to parcel thru a huge contract. Prof. Tolkien did it right the first time . . . short and sweet.

The book has so much humor to exploit, they didn't need to go for such an obvious gag.

A big BOO to the writers on this one.



I'm totally with you on this one...it seems to be a gag referring back to the contracts of secrecy all who are involved with the making of the Rings movies and now the Hobbit movies are required to sign prior to their involvement with them. I can imagine the actors signing contracts just as long as the one in this picture promising to not divulge any information they see, hear or otherwise become educated about during their time on set. Not only is the contract super huge but doesn't Bilbo read the note the next morning after the dwarves have gone? The book never says he signs anything does it? I'm re-reading the book now and I don't recall seeing that in the beginning of the story.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 9:57pm

Post #51 of 72 (1352 views)
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There's a huge difference, in terms of language, between Thorin's speech and the contract [In reply to] Can't Post

And according to what we know of Tolkien, and the literature on the history of the Hobbit, included the Annotated Hobbit, we can see that Tolkien meant this to be so. The difference is significant:
Let's look at word choice, which we know Tolkien was very careful about.
In the speech:


Quote

plans, ways, means, policy, devices, before the break of day, long journey, solemn moment


The only potentially hobbitish, and modern, word there is “policy.”
In the contract – there is a profusion of modern English words. professionalisms and jargon – which is very much in the hobbit vein (remember the description of Bilbo’s “will” in FotR). It's a sort of devolution in/impoverishment of the meaning of language and words, as Tolkien saw it, which was also evidenced by Gandalf's irritation at Bilbo's use of "good morning" to mean a whole host of different things. It is a contract that is perfectly fit for a "grocer" as Bilbo is referred to by the dwarves. Anyway, here's a list:


Quote
hospitality, sincerest thanks, offer of professional assistance, Terms, cash on delivery, one fourteenth, total profits, traveling expenses, funeral expenses, defrayed, representatives, esteemed repose, requisite preparations, 11 a.m. sharp.


I understand that certain things are subjective. However, Tolkien was very precise in his use of different styles of language to illuminate character, and by many accounts, the contract was Tolkien’s way of showing Thorin’s sarcastic contempt for the “grocer,” Bilbo Baggins.
It is a hobbitish contract, shot through with Thorin's contemptuous humor.

IMO, the idea that dwarves do "business-like" and "contract work" is something that has developed over the years as fantasy authors and imitators have taken them in different directions. Tolkien's dwarves are great craftsmen, and lovers of beautiful things, but they are not professional merchants of the modern world, concerned overmuch with profits and timely deliveries. They love crafted things for their own sake!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 10:02pm

Post #52 of 72 (1330 views)
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There is reams of evidence, in the books and in Tolkien scholarship [In reply to] Can't Post

To suggest that hobbits are Tolkien's "anachronisms" in Middle Earth. He uses them as the vehicle to allow the reader to enter the deep and "faery" past. And dwarves are of the deep and faery past, not modern England.

There is no place, outside the Shire and Bree, for this very modern kind of "contract" that is written by Thorin. We only hear of such things when hobbits are involved, such as in Frodo's "will" in FotR, where Tolkien explicitly mentions that it is a particularly hobbitish trait to want everything written down proper in red ink, with all the i's dotted and all the t's crossed.

Tolkien's dwarves, on the other hand, are craftsmen and miners because they LOVE beautiful crafted things. Not because they want to make money, as modern merchants do.

Dwarves are not late medieval or industrial age merchants that work on contracts. They are ancient mythological beings of the Earth, with a burning passion for the crafted things of the world.

It is no accident that the dwarves of Belegost got along relatively well with Feanor and his sons. Those are not the kind of dudes that bring lawyers in to seal a deal.

Thorin's long-windedness is an overwrought, and pedantically poetic long-windedness. It is not the kind of long-windedness associated with legalese and business-speak.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Feb 16 2012, 10:11pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 16 2012, 10:15pm

Post #53 of 72 (1324 views)
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And I would add [In reply to] Can't Post

That Thorin does this, in part, because he knows a hobbit couldn't be in it for "the beauty of treasure," "the glory," the "vengeance," or "the adventure."

As a contemptible grocer, the only way he would come along is to be given a contract, written in parochial hobbit fashion as if they were making a deal on a sale of wheat stocks, to clear up the duties, and terms of payment, for him.

He is a modern. Detached from the heroic. He only does things that are comfortable and good for business. Thorin knows this, and creates a document with the style of a hobbitish agreement, but the substance of a heroic adventure.

That is the essence of the contract.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Feb 16 2012, 10:21pm)


squire
Half-elven


Feb 17 2012, 12:39am

Post #54 of 72 (1313 views)
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Not so huge and not so simple [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand the point you want to make, and elements of a heroic/modern conflict are where you say they are - as they are throughout the book. But I think you are missing the comedy elements in Thorin's speech, which coexist with higher themes in The Hobbit in a way that cannot be found in either The Lord of the Rings or The Silmarillion.
  • "a journey from which some of us ... may never return." Elevated but meaningless threat because of its screaming obviousness.
  • "It is a solemn moment." Absurd filler. An obvious parody of every speechifier who tries to build atmosphere through declamation rather than description.
  • "Our object is, I take it, well known to us all." Again, meaningless rhetoric enhanced by an even more meaningless interjection ("I take it.")
  • "(I think I should be right in naming Kili and Fili, for instance)" Apophasis, a classic rhetorical device of indirection - "I should be right if I named them" suggests that he hasn't named them yet, which of course he just has. "for instance" - any other younger dwarves available if they won't do?
  • "the exact situation at the moment may require a little brief explanation-" At this point in the speech anyone who has ever attended a banquet in the early 20th century is rolling in the aisles. As Tolkien is kind enough to explain in his commentary after breaking Thorin off.
Seen this way, the Dwarves' letter to Bilbo is likewise a spoof. The idea of a fairy-tale character getting a contract including provision for funeral arrangements (!) is hilarious. Bilbo is more modern than the Dwarves, to be sure. But these bumbling, fumbling, selfish, ineffective, and petty (but brave!) Dwarves are not delivered to us with an entirely straight face from this author, either. They make their grand entrance into Bilbo's front hall with a pratfall that would do Charlie Chaplin proud, and they never really recover their heroic dignity after that.

Smaug's dialogue with Bilbo can be read as both comedy and commentary on the classic Norse Dragonspell, as well. So can many other little interjections in the story where the modern outlook of the narrator imposes a comedic perspective on what seemingly aspires to be a fairy tale of a heroic age into which a bourgeois hobbit has wandered.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 17 2012, 1:31am

Post #55 of 72 (1277 views)
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I don't disagree with that at all [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact, you're right. Tolkien is also highlighting the absurdity and pomposity of the "heroic mode" that Thorin exhibits.

My point is simply that Thorin's wind-baggery (I am patenting that term) is of a different mode than what is in the contract. Thorin's speech is Tolkien poking fun at the empty pomp and braggadocio that comes with such a worldview. Thorin is, in essence, a parody of Beowulf, Sigfried, or even Feanor and Turin.

The contract, on the other hand, is clearly, IMO, not a parody of Thorin at all. It is written in the modern mode, full of legalese and professional jargon. This is the kind of "filler" that is not in Thorin's speech. This is hobbit filler.

The contract is a parody of Bilbo - and by extension - the modern world (and modern man). It shows how ridiculous modern conceits like "contracts" are when applied to the topic of high adventure and life-threatening circumstances. The way it is written suggests that the author, Thorin, is aware of this. His inclusion of "funeral expenses" is particularly funny, as it is pragmatic legalese referring to the possible violent death of the contractor. In this sense, Thorin is diminishing the positive value of "death," as he expects Bilbo has (someone who faints at the mere thought of it). Thorin, in actuality, likely greatly values death - in particular, heroic death. This goes some way in explaining why they had such a horrible, non-plan for once they got to the Lonely Mountain - to barge in and either get lucky, or die.

Of course, as you highlight, it turns out that the dwarves are just as afraid of death as Bilbo is, and perhaps more. But this is a de-mythologizing of the heroic mode (which the dwarves should represent) that is a separate issues from the kind of language used in the contract.

In short, someone earlier said it is written in "dwarven style," and it simply isn't. You, I agree with completely.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 17 2012, 1:35am

Post #56 of 72 (1322 views)
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Just to clarify: [In reply to] Can't Post

By 'Dwarven style' I meant the letters used - about which I was entirely wrong - not the syntax.

(Thanks for correcting me, those of you who did!)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Longbottom Leaf
Lorien


Feb 17 2012, 1:55am

Post #57 of 72 (1290 views)
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Wind- baggery! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ha!...Love it! My favorite term since numb-skullery!

The best weed in the southfarthing!


Owain
Tol Eressea


Feb 17 2012, 4:10pm

Post #58 of 72 (1306 views)
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Actually this particular statement isn't quite accurate... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Dwarves are not late medieval or industrial age merchants that work on contracts. They are ancient mythological beings of the Earth, with a burning passion for the crafted things of the world


They indeed do care about being paid for their work and the matter of binding contracts, enough so to fight wars, as is stated in The Hobbit.

Tolkien's writings indicate this as stated below.

"In ancient days they had had wars with some of the dwarves whom they accused of stealing their treasure. It is only fair to say that the dwarves gave a different account, and said that they only took what was their due, for the elf-king had bargained with them to shape his raw gold and silver, and had afterwards refused to give them their pay." The Hobbit - Chapter VIII "Flies and Spiders"

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

(This post was edited by Owain on Feb 17 2012, 4:15pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 18 2012, 4:42am

Post #59 of 72 (1219 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry I missed this post yesterday. I came to the same conclusion last night, with the help of those commenting in the blog.

"Meals to be provided (or not) at the sole discretion of the Director,
with due respect for ..., ...., or any special dietary
requirements not disclosed at the outset"


Note additional words in italics are potentials, but not certain. Might be worth a re-look with food oriented words in mind. My own mind is too lazy right now, and I'm loving this community effort!!

I agree once you start to recognize a tricky letter it is worth going back. Amazing how the word "special" in the paragraph above appears to be missing every other letter due to the angle.



DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 18 2012, 4:51am

Post #60 of 72 (1223 views)
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I had enough trouble with English! [In reply to] Can't Post

I will have to leave the runes to the experts for now. It's all chicken scratches to me!


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 18 2012, 5:09am

Post #61 of 72 (1202 views)
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Sympathy from a modern audience? [In reply to] Can't Post

The insistence on actually signing a contract seems, to me, to be a way to get modern audiences to feel for Bilbo's predicament. Most of us have had to sign something that appeared to be asking for more relinquishment of rights than was necessary, but we did it anyway because we really wanted/needed that resource.


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 18 2012, 6:51am

Post #62 of 72 (1243 views)
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Very interesting discussion here! [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not claim to be as well-informed as Shelob's Apprentice or Squire about the details of either dwarves or hobbits. You will have to forgive my simplistic viewpoints after all this intense examination of the whether the content of the contract is more dwarven or Shire-like. As it turns out, I've been convinced by both sides. I can see the contract (short Tolkien version, or long WETA version) to be either intentionally written with a hobbit in mind, and taking pains to use very hobbit-appropriate terms, or to be oblivious to hobbit writing styles, and actually be from a dwarven mind. The dwarves of the Blue Mountains were in dire straits compared to those of preceding centuries. Even if they were well-fed and living in relative peace, the lack of gold and gems meant they were unable to make things they could be truly proud of. These dwarves lived by trading with their neighbors, the men and hobbits of the Shire and Bree (and perhaps others) and it makes sense they picked up habits, as well as modes of speech and business, from these trading partners. For all we know, the contract may be in the style of Men, with whom, I'm going to guess, the dwarves traded with more than hobbits.

The other reason I am inclined to accept both of your views is because I believe Tolkien changed his opinions about dwarves from the early Hobbit days, to the later Rings era (and even from the beginning of The Hobbit to its end). The dwarves of the "Unexpected Party" are very much ridiculous, though fun characters, yet by the end of the book (and with only a micron of character development to explain the change) they become grim and effective warriors. The story as a whole becomes more serious, dealing with issues that actually affect the real world, such as racial conflict and greed, rather than a fanciful dragon. Thorin's speech becomes less casual, more archaic, and loses its pedantic tone in favor of a stern nobility. When researching the character (see my post "What sort of Thorin will we see in the Hobbit film?"), this inconsistency was most distracting. I feel there is a disconnect between these two representations of dwarves simply because Tolkien decided more than half way through writing the story that he wanted to increase their nobility factor. The character of Dain, as well as the later writings about dwarves in the "Appendices" and the "Quest of Erebor", are of the latter mould.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Feb 18 2012, 4:58pm

Post #63 of 72 (1223 views)
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Excellent point [In reply to] Can't Post

There in the second paragraph, DarkJackal.

Tolkien's view of his mythology developed during (and after) he wrote the Hobbit, and the dwarves certainly do change over the course of the story.

However, I also think that has to do with the simple fact that the dwarves are travelling from the relative peace and mundane parochialism of the Shire, to the "Wild." By the time they are in Erebor, in the heart of the Lonely mountain, their journey from the ordinary and routine life to the very center of the wild in the dragon's lair (and the center of their dwarven being, an ancestral underground hall full of treasure) is complete. So it makes narrative sense for these two different versions of the dwarves, and Thorin, to exist (and it is no accident that the dwarves originally came from "the East.")

In the kindly West, the dwarves became soft, and perhaps, as you suggest, adopted some of the habits and speech of their soft, "grocer" neighbors. In the wild East, they become hardened again, literally returning, as they do, to their heroic (mountain) roots.

In this sense, the contract is either an attempt by Thorin to appeal to his hobbit host, or an indication that the dwarves have grown a bit hobbitish. In both cases, however, the style is not what one would describe as "dwarven."


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Feb 18 2012, 5:02pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 21 2012, 5:48pm

Post #64 of 72 (1132 views)
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Well put [In reply to] Can't Post

Shelob, you've managed to turn the annoying discrepancy into something that is canonically acceptable (at least to me). Many thanks! I will probably be referring to your post in future!

The mention Thorin makes of the "child of the kindly West", at a moment when words should not be wasted, supports your argument. It became important enough to point out that not just Bilbo, but the entire region he is from, is markedly different in temperament from where they now reside. Thorin's people were guests of the West, but never its children. The description Tolkien gives when introducing Dain's people shows what dwarves untainted by the West are like, namely fierce and grim. I suppose it surprised me that Thorin & Co. could undergo a change so quickly, but perhaps it is not so quick after all. The time they spent in Lake-town, in sight of the Mountain, could have been when the process began.


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 21 2012, 7:44pm

Post #65 of 72 (1154 views)
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Update on the Contract [In reply to] Can't Post

Due to the wonderful efforts of many people, lots of blanks have been filled since last week, and I'm sure there will be more to come. For ease of discussion, I'm posting what we have so far. If you want to scrutinize the source (probably a good idea!), or help identify more, then by all means visit the blog. Lettering of the parts below is just for identification and indicates absolutely nothing about anything. Tongue


Part A [the contract is folded over making it impossible to read much of the beginning]
(?) agreement or undertaking....
and witnessed below as set forth hereunder:
[very fine print]
I, the undersigned, [referred to hereinafter as Burglar] agree to travel
to the Lonely Mountain, path to be determined by Thorin Oakenshield, who
has a right to alter the course of the journey at his so choosing, without prior
notification and/or liability for accident or injury incurred.


Part B
The aforementioned journey and subsequent extraction from the Lonely
Mountain of any and all goods, valuables, and chattels [which activities are described
collectively herein as the Adventure] shall proceed in a timely manner and with all due
care and consideration as seen fit by said Thorin Oakenshield and companions,
numbering thirteen, more or less, to wit, the Company.
[fine print]


Part C
Burglar holds harmless and without blame in perpetuity the Company
and its successors for..................................or...............................
Note: Plenty more, but too dark to read.


Part C - Bonus section
Funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives
if occasion arises, and the matter is not otherwise arranged for.
[fine print]
Note: Having done some tweaking of the image, I'm now confident the "Funeral expenses" section is accurate. One of the words in the middle of the undeciphered part above it also looks like "expenses". Might that be the "traveling expenses" line?


Part D
Burglar shall choose.............................................
............................................................Company's
......................successful........of............................
[bend in page]
squatter in said home shall not necessarily earn any additional monetary or fiscal
reward, but will definitely guarantee Burglar (if he survives) and Burglar's family
the undying gratitude and promise of service (?) (?) and forever of the
Company and its successors.
[two lines very fine print]
[one line fine print]

Part E

Eviction or elimination of any undesirable guardian of Company's
property, goods, or premises or holdings, shall take priority over the recovery of
said property, goods, premises or holdings, should such (?) be encountered.
Elimination shall take priority over eviction in any and all cases.
[two lines fine print]
Note: Suspect the last word is "guardian" again.

Part F
Burglar hereby accepts.................................
......................................................................
......................................................................
[three lines fine print]

Part G
Meals provided (or not) at the sole discretion of the Director,
with due respect for availability, season, or any special dietary
requirements not disclosed at the outset.
[three lines very fine print]
[two lines fine print]

Part H
The Principles agreeing to this contract, namely the Company, [as
represented by Thorin Oakenshield] and the Burglar, and known collectively
henceforth as the Parties, shall signify their agreement to all clauses
contained herein [the Conditions of Employment] by signing or making their
marks in the spaces provided for so doing, and affixing seals if applicable.
The (?) to the Contract.............................whose (?) marks or seals
................................and before their understanding and endorsed
agreement to all that is contained herein.
[three lines fine print]

Part I

Confidentiality is of utmost importance and must be strictly
maintained at all times. During the course of his employment with the Company,
Burglar will hear, see, learn, apprehend, comprehend, and in short, gain knowledge
of particular facts, ideas, plans, strategies, theories, geography, cartography,
iconography, (?) tactics and/or policies, whether actual, tangible, conceptual,
historical or fanciful. Burglar understands and agrees to maintain this knowledge
in utmost secrecy and confidentiality and to neither divulge nor make known
said knowledge by any means, including but not limited to speech, writing
demonstration, re-enactment, mime, or storage and retrieval within means
or apparatus currently known or unknown, or as yet unthought of.
[one line fine print]

Part J
Early termination of this Contract shall (?) (?) early termination
fee to be determined by Thorin and Company at their sole and absolute
discretion. All clauses contained herein shall survive such termination and
remain enforceable in all countries whether existent now or in the future,
throughout the known world.
[three lines fine print]

Part K
Disputes arising between the Contract Parties shall be heard...
[the page bends and the rest, which is a large amount, cannot be seen]


Part L [this section is a folded over bit which comes at the end of a larger section, none of which can be seen]
This agreement constitutes the entire agreement between the parties, and replaces
and supersedes all prior understandings and agreements whether written or oral, with
respect to the subject matter described and set forth herein.
Except as is set forth in the key provisions, Burglar [page bends]
permit or allow any distribution of the recovered goods of any kind whatsoever(?) without the
Company's written permission, which may be granted [or not] at the Company’s sole discretion.
Note: Not sure about italicized words here.

Whew! That's all for now.


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 21 2012, 7:59pm

Post #66 of 72 (1112 views)
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Thanks for the update DarkJackal! [In reply to] Can't Post

You're doing a super job, and we all greatly appreciate it! I hope they release a prop or something in the future (after the films) so we can find out!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Feb 21 2012, 8:15pm

Post #67 of 72 (1133 views)
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Wouldn't it be annoying if the next image they release... [In reply to] Can't Post

...is a detailed scan of the contract Evil

"...For if joyful is the fountain that rises in the sun, its springs are in the wells of sorrow unfathomed at the foundations of the Earth"


DanielLB
Immortal


Feb 21 2012, 8:54pm

Post #68 of 72 (1133 views)
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And then... [In reply to] Can't Post

decide to scrap the contract, and re-film all the scenes with just the letter from Thorin (as in the book)! Tongue


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 21 2012, 9:29pm

Post #69 of 72 (1108 views)
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You are so bad! [In reply to] Can't Post

Of course I would be delighted to have all our hard work proven completely accurate! Laugh DE-lighted.


DarkJackal
Rohan

Feb 21 2012, 9:32pm

Post #70 of 72 (1517 views)
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Ah, even better! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, please. Please do that...Mad


TheHutt
Gondor


Oct 1 2012, 1:45pm

Post #71 of 72 (1006 views)
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New picture of Bilbo's Contract - anyone cares to decypher? [In reply to] Can't Post

Now here is a very large picture of Bilbo's contract which could be more easily deciphered than the original first shot, I guess:

http://www.wetanz.com/...Bilbos-Contract2.jpg

Russian LotR/Hobbit Site:


Henneth-annun.ru - the Russian LOTR site


DanielLB
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 3:20pm

Post #72 of 72 (1074 views)
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You're lucky if anyone stumbles across this post again! Probably worth a new thread ;-) / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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