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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Main:
Nicholas Cage Was Almost in LOTR...
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Feb 3 2012, 3:00pm

Post #26 of 60 (6147 views)
Yes, absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
I think some actors refer to a 'role they turned down' when it's more like 'I chose not to pursue it'. It really means about the same thing, I'm sure, to them and sometimes a simple answer - even if slightly misleading - is what works best for light interviews. I'm not sure we can assume that Cage was offered the job or that he even read for it.

It is also an ego thing. Most A or even B list actors really think that they can get any role they want because of who they are and who they know. This is not always the case... but happens more than we civilians realize. Hollywood producers and directors are more subject to this than their Kiwi counterparts obviously.


Feb 3 2012, 3:11pm

Post #27 of 60 (6190 views)
Here [In reply to] Can't Post

From IMDB trivia:

"A scene was cut from the finished film that showed Eowyn (Miranda Otto) stripping away her regular clothes and then dressing herself in the armor of a Rohan warrior."

*Darkstone bangs head against wall*

Tolkien Forever

Feb 3 2012, 4:58pm

Post #28 of 60 (6174 views)
Is this? [In reply to] Can't Post

Eowyn with the beard?

She looks like a dwarf woman! Crazy

The Ultimate Tolkien Trivia Quiz: http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=so-you-want-to-be-tolkien-geek


Feb 3 2012, 6:35pm

Post #29 of 60 (6137 views)
Thanks, I forgot to edit those out...// [In reply to] Can't Post


Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2012, 6:36pm

Post #30 of 60 (6137 views)
OMG Magpie! [In reply to] Can't Post

You are amazing! A real magpie (AH! Lightbulb moment)

I thought about referring the question to you for more in-depth info on Townsend from files at the Old TORn Site, but decided that wasn't fair because we always send the tough questions to you, so I just went to google to refresh my memory. Now the secret is out - you LOVE this stuff! And you know where to find it all - instantly! You must never leave us - ever! Are we clear on that?!

Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2012, 6:44pm

Post #31 of 60 (6176 views)
These photos are hysterical! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Gramma!

Julia looks the part, but I hear the voice in my head! (aaargh!)

Yoda, however, is adorable. "Precious we are, yeeeees."

(This post was edited by Lissuin on Feb 3 2012, 6:45pm)


Feb 3 2012, 6:47pm

Post #32 of 60 (6118 views)
OMG - those were great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the giggle!!!



Feb 3 2012, 7:09pm

Post #33 of 60 (6142 views)
That list... [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of you may be aware of the TORn History Project which is getting developed with wiki software at The TORn Mathom-house.

I picked, almost at random, a topic to start researching by starting at the beginning of history (around April 1999) and browsing articles. A lot of the articles back then had to do with casting rumors, reports, and rumblings (as I called them) so I went about methodically collecting info on the subject. (as told through the lens of TORn... as we define it).

So all this info is at the Mathom-house with lots and lots of links and information. But, most of the pages at the Mathom-house are set to private until we get a little more content and clean the place up a little. That is happening in small, baby steps. If anyone here has an account with the wiki, they can sign in to see. If you don't, you'll have to wait a bit. Or volunteer to work on the project so you get an account! :-) (serious intentions only, please)

But, Townsend... lots of links on Townsend. Here's what I wrote in regards to Connery and Townsend:

TORn's News Archives date back to April 10, 1999 and on April 12, the first casting rumor appeared: Tehanu, after meeting someone in the filming industry wrote, "The rumour about Sean Connery being involved is still going strong among actor circles here (in Wellington, NZ), she at least believes there is a strong possibility that it's true. Gandalf?" The number of LOTR casting 'rumors, rumblings, and reports' for Connery at TORN - which span April, 1999 to November, 2006 far exceed those for any other actor. (The number collected for Connery stands at 30. The next highest is for Ethan Hawke at 18. However, if we include post-casting rumors, Stuart Townsend would surpass Hawke and rival Connery.)

I will make that one page public. To read it, go here:

None of the other Casting Rumors pages are public so you won't be able to access internal links. But you can access all the TORn News Archives links in the footnote section.

If you want to read more about the Mathom-house, you can go to this page:
and follow the links you see there.

Back to Townsend. Because the wiki focuses on what TORn reported, it does not include this article I stumbled across a comment when researching cameo roles in the LOTR movies. The site was in Dutch, I believe. And it was an interview with a group of special effects makeup artists that were hired to work on the LOTR movies. One of them, Xander Forterie, portrayed a Dwarf in the prologue (start here: https://picasaweb.google.com/...#5506119770531221490 and click next a few times). In that interview, Forterie said (and what follows is the google translation of the original Dutch)

[The work] went on far more professional than we were before accustomed to working in the Netherlands. Aragorn, for example, was originally played by another actor, but he had misbehaved on the set. He was immediately thrown out and Viggo Mortensen took his place. They were pretty strict.

The page this quote was on is now gone. I checked the internet archive and they never captured it. But I did take screenshots of both the original language and the google translation of the page (thank goodness). If anyone wants to see either, let me know and I'll find a way to share them.

I have not run across a similar sort of comment as Forterie made anywhere else. I don't know Forterie and can't vouch for his character (in terms of making stuff like this up). I don't think he would lie and he would have no reason to in this interview. But we have to consider that he could have the story wrong, or a bit misconstrued, or someone else was making something up that he later heard... or... that it's true but people in a higher up, more responsible (in the production team and cast) position couldn't or wouldn't say such a thing.. but Forterie didn't know he wasn't supposed to say anything.

LOTR soundtrack website
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Feb 3 2012, 7:42pm

Post #34 of 60 (6132 views)
Danny DeVito unspecified - Scale Double? [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually that is not very nice, but I couldn't resist. Very interesting list. I had heard of some, but not nearly as many as you listed. I did also like Yoda as a possibility.

Thanks for the information.


Feb 3 2012, 8:36pm

Post #35 of 60 (6145 views)
I think I would have had trouble accepting any actor [In reply to] Can't Post

who had appeared in a lot of blockbuster type films. That might not be fair as there are probably some with the skill to play the part, but I would just have trouble with the over familiarity of it. I'm glad the films were cast mostly with actors I wasn't familiar with.

Growth is less a matter of change than of ripening--and what alters most is the clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter

Tol Eressea

Feb 3 2012, 8:46pm

Post #36 of 60 (6122 views)
*mods up*, Magpie Half-Elven! [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's hear it for the TORn history project, and here is an example of how useful it's going to be. That page about Stuart Townsend gives a summary and then sets out all the references. People can draw their own conclusions, not easy when dealing with filmworld rumor and innuendo.

Can't wait to have our own wiki. The Mathom-house looks brilliant!

Tolkien Forever

Feb 3 2012, 10:45pm

Post #37 of 60 (6110 views)
I bet [In reply to] Can't Post


That if TLOR had been stocked with Brad Pitts, Tom Cruises & Sean Connery's, that now, we'd all be saying:

"thank God TLOR wasn't stocked with no-name actors. I'd have a hard time thinking of anybody but Brad Pitt playing Legolas & Tom Cruise as Aragorn. " Wink

It's just the way things get ingrained in us...

As I said in my previous post (or two): Danny Kaye as Vito Corleone?

"The gun in the sun shoots the bullet when you pull it." Sly

The Ultimate Tolkien Trivia Quiz: http://www.proprofs.com/quiz-school/story.php?title=so-you-want-to-be-tolkien-geek


Feb 3 2012, 11:00pm

Post #38 of 60 (6118 views)
Not for me [In reply to] Can't Post

Half-known actors are far less distracting to me. Brad Pitt is a fine actor, but he would have been incredibly distracting even ten years ago. Besides, the girls got Orlando to swoon over, a relative unknown. They can all claim to have 'found him first' :)


Feb 4 2012, 2:01am

Post #39 of 60 (6094 views)
It would depend on how well they did at disappearing into the roles [In reply to] Can't Post

Meryl Streep can do that, but I can't really think of any other big name actors I've seen do that. It is true that in 1999 I was so grateful that the films were being made at all I probably would have accepted Brad Pitt without complaint(but not Tom Cruise). As I am still complaining about a few things PJ's LOTR films(which are still my favorite films of all time)I'm pretty sure I'd be capable of being unhappy with a different cast than what we got.

Growth is less a matter of change than of ripening--and what alters most is the clarity with which we see one another. -Edith Pargeter


Feb 4 2012, 2:17am

Post #40 of 60 (6086 views)
*mods up* What a list! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, Magpie! This is a treasure trove! I still cringe at even the hint of Uma Thurman in these films... which looked like a strong likelihood at one point.

Peter Woodthorpe has done an awesome Gollum, yet I'm very glad Andy came out for that audition ;) It would have been nice to see Woodthorpe have a place in the films, though.

Thanks for this! Wow!


I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.

TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes

Kangi Ska

Feb 4 2012, 2:19am

Post #41 of 60 (6086 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

Nic would have made a great Golem. Shave his head and a bit of makeup...

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Superuser / Moderator

Feb 4 2012, 3:08am

Post #42 of 60 (6086 views)
It became a given [In reply to] Can't Post

that the line that PJ had cast Aragorn too young so they had to let Townsend go, was a cover for whatever really caused his departure. There was too much of a gap between Townsend leaving and the reason being released, and it just felt too much like a neutral reason that cast no aspersions on the actor.

Whatever actually happened, I doubt we'll know for sure.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Ataahua's stories


Feb 4 2012, 3:19am

Post #43 of 60 (6073 views)
I agree with you on that [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I just like be very neutral myself when reporting what I've researched... leaving my own opinions out of it. But I personally buy Forterie's comment completely.

LOTR soundtrack website
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Feb 4 2012, 3:29am

Post #44 of 60 (6113 views)
more fun casting stuff : who was "msboyd" [In reply to] Can't Post

I just get too much enjoyment out of this sort of stuff to keep it to myself.

In researching (on the web in general) a particular article I found in the TORn News Archives, I came across these two tidbits about Billy Boyd:

From: Movie Mazzupial - 27 October 2011 - "About a Boyd"

Boyd was the first actor cast in the Lord Of The Rings trilogy, a fact he was surprised to learn from Sir Ian McKellen (who played Gandalf).

“I had no idea until Ian mentioned it in this big speech he did at the end of filming,'' he said.

“I went on the internet straight afterwards and tried to figure out if it was true.

“When they started casting, everyone was up for it. Literally every actor you knew or spoke to was auditioning for Lord Of The Rings.

“I sent a tape in like everyone else and when I got asked to go down and meet Pete (Jackson) he said `the part's yours if you want it'.

“I said yes because it was Tolkien and it was Jackson and I was going to New Zealand for two years.''

From IGN - April 14, 2003 - "An Interview with Billy Boyd"
http://movies.ign.com/...es/393/393444p1.html (3rd page)

IGNFF: How did Lord of the Rings come about?

BOYD: Very simply. I was living in Scotland, with this agent as I told you – Aude Powell is her name – she said they're making the Lord of the Rings, and one of the things about staying in Scotland is everything casts in London. So if you make the choice to stay out of London, it's part of a sort of a deal is I'll travel to London to go up for things. So she said, "Do you want to come down for this?" I said, "Definitely!" She said it's a trilogy – I thought that would be amazing. But, you know, everyone was up for it. So I just went down, met with the casting director ... I went on tape, reading Merry and Pippin, reading a scene once as Pippin, once as Merry, on a tape. And that tape was sent off to New Zealand, to Pete, along with everyone else who auditioned for it. About a month later, Pete was in London after being in L.A. and New York and on his way to Sydney and a few other places, I think. And he was meeting the people that he'd like to meet for each character, and I was one of the people that he wanted to meet for Pippin. I went in, and he had a few scenes with him.
(lots more at IGN)

from TORn - May 14th, 1999 -"Merry and Pippin casting search?"

msboyd chimed in a couple of days ago with some interesting news, it seems some friends of hers are being looked over for some major characters.

News has come from spies in the theatrical world in London. PJ has been looking around and auditioning some of the bright young talents there, some of them still not yet out of drama school. It looks like we’re going to see fresh faces playing roles like Pippin and Merry.

Since finding that TORn article a year ago... I've always wondered who "msboyd" really was.

LOTR soundtrack website
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Forum Admin / Moderator

Feb 4 2012, 4:20am

Post #45 of 60 (6091 views)
Yes, it makes sense. [In reply to] Can't Post

And while nobody in the cast said anything much about it, they also didn't seem very sad about his leaving and embraced Viggo entirely in very short order, which also indicates that all was not well on the set.


"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

Superuser / Moderator

Feb 4 2012, 6:31am

Post #46 of 60 (6088 views)
Sometimes // [In reply to] Can't Post

People here are just plain evil! Angelic

In the very nicest of ways, of course. Evil

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

TORn Calendar


Feb 4 2012, 11:40pm

Post #47 of 60 (6054 views)
Oh Grandma! These are FUNNY. Hahaha. Priceless.// [In reply to] Can't Post


Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing they evidently prefer.

Good becomes great. Bad becomes worse.  This is why you were chosen.  Because a strong man who has known power all his life may lose respect for that power.  But a weak man knows the value of strength and knows compassion. 


Feb 5 2012, 1:46am

Post #48 of 60 (6098 views)
Kevin Conway wasn't Theoden. Bernard Hill was. why the asterisk? [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
collected from news archives from April 1999 to roughly Dec 2001 (some reports are from a later time but I have not thoroughly scoured the news archives for the time after Dec 2001)

Some of these were misunderstood statements from the actor. Some where wishful thinking on the fans parts. Other reports were more substantial and probably indicated serious talks between the actor and producers.

Ben Affleck unspecified
Sean Astin Sam Gamgee*
Tom Baker Gandalf
Sean Bean Boromir*
Cate Blanchett Galadriel*
Orlando Bloom Legolas*
Billy Boyd Pippin*
Pierce Brosnan Aragorn
Steve Buscemi Gollum
Jason Carter Aragorn
Claudia Christian unspecified
Sean Connery Gandalf
Jeffrey Combs Wormtongue
Kevin Conway Theoden*
Joshua Cox Faramir
Marton Csokas Celeborn*
Warwick Davis Gimli
Daniel Day-Lewis Aragorn
Leonardo DiCaprio unspecified
Vin Diesel Aragorn
Danny DeVito unspecified
Brad Dourif Wormtongue*
Robin Atkin Downes unspecified
Rupert Everett unspecified
Sadie Frost unspecified
Ethan Hawke Faramir
Bernard Hill Theoden
Ian Holm Bilbo*
Anthony Hopkins unspecified
Ashley Judd unspecified
Wi Kuki Kaa Ghân-buri-Ghân
Harvey Keitel unspecified
Jude Law unspecified
Nicholas Lea unspecified
Christopher Lee Saruman*
Christopher Lloyd unspecified
Ian McKellen Gandalf*
Patrick McGoohan unspecified
Kylie Minogue Galadriel
Dominic Monaghan Merry*
Viggo Mortensen Aragorn
Liam Neeson unspecified
Nick Nolte Eomer / Beregond
Craig Parker Haldir*
Keanu Reeves Aragorn
John Rhys-Davies Gimli*
Izabella Scorupco unspecified
Brian Sergent Ted Sandyman*
Andy Serkis Gollum*
Mira Sorvino unspecified
Timothy Spall Gimli
Terence Stamp unspecified
Patrick Stewart Gandalf / Denethor / Theoden
Paul Sutera Lotho Sackville-Baggins
Donald Sutherland Denethor
Elizabeth Taylor unspecified
Stuart Townsend Aragorn*
Uma Thurman Galadriel Eowyn
Verne Troyer unspecified
Liv Tyler Arwen*
David Wenham Faramir*
Bruce Willis Boromir
Kate Winslet Eowyn
Elijah Wood Frodo*
Peter Woodthorpe Gollum

(This post was edited by estelien on Feb 5 2012, 1:48am)


Feb 5 2012, 1:50am

Post #49 of 60 (6036 views)
Aiiiiiiiiii!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

He's like my favorite actor! (After the whole lotr crew.) That would have been too awesome. Except that I would kill if anyone was Gorny but Viggo. It would be neat if he was, say, Haldir or someone.


Feb 5 2012, 2:39am

Post #50 of 60 (6142 views)
Kevin Conway was cast as Theoden and quit (presumably before filming his role began) [In reply to] Can't Post

From the Mathom-house article:

Early October, Ain't It Cool News leaked a casting list that was due to be officially released the following day. TORn had been provided the same info but had been asked to wait (and did) until after the press release was officially published to post the names. One name not previously rumored was that of Kevin Conway for the role of Theoden. However, when the official New Line Press Release was published on TORn (the same day), neither Conway nor Theoden was mentioned.

In February, 2000, Bernard Hill stated he had been cast for an unspecified part in the LOTR films. TORn placed some calls to unknown people and received confirmation that Hill would be in the films as 'Theodus, or something Greek like that.' When asked, the contact was sure it wasn't Theoden and Xoanon didn't think it could be Theoden, either, since it was known that Kevin Conway was playing Theoden. Xoanon reported in March that 'very reliable sources' were telling him that Bernard Hill may have been cast as Theoden. If this was the case, Xoanon wondered, what role did Kevin Conway have?

Six months from the start of principal photography, TORn recapped the LOTR film project by saying Kevin Conway had been rumored for Denethor but that role was now confirmed as belonging to John Noble. A cast list published in a a French movie magazine indicated Kevin Conway was playing Theoden.

The final answer came in July, 2000 when during an interview, Conway said he had been 'attached' to the project but 'pulled out' because of the on and off shooting schedule for his character; it didn't seem worth it for only being in two of the films; and he also felt a stuntman could do what was required for the role of Theoden.

Conway's status of an actor who "could have been in LOTR" (along with many others) was recapped in a January, 2003 TORn article.

I've made the wiki page public in case you want to access it the links to the original TORn News Articles

(none of the internal wiki links will work unless you have an account).

LOTR soundtrack website
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(This post was edited by Magpie on Feb 5 2012, 2:40am)

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