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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Chip the Glasses in after all?
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Nov 29 2011, 9:17pm

Post #26 of 84 (1808 views)
I doubt they would [In reply to] Can't Post

Use breakable plates for one take. Likely, they are made of hard plastic, and can be reused again and again. Easy solution to unbreakable plates is sound effects of plates breaking...Problem solved.

Also, the guy in plain clothes seems to be throwing plates from off camera. So, it sis likely that the shot involves plates flying in front of the camera from a source that is off-camera.

We shall see!


Nov 29 2011, 9:38pm

Post #27 of 84 (1758 views)
agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I also think they're filming. The scene we see is a one that actually could happen and is close to the events in the book. if they'd want us to see some fooling around i think they'd show us more of ... well ... these guitar-playing bomburs, something that is very odd

Captain Salt
Tol Eressea

Nov 29 2011, 9:54pm

Post #28 of 84 (1761 views)
Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that I don't like the Dwarves purposely breaking Bilbo's plates (it makes them appear a tad on the mean-spirited/careless side early on), and would perfer if they do so, Gandalf stop them.

However, it possible this may not end up in the film at all; in the King Kong Production Diary, we saw early glimpses of many scenes which were either removed, or substituted with alternate versions, in the film itself. One can hope, in this case...

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, with axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Nov 29 2011, 9:55pm

Post #29 of 84 (1774 views)
They are filming. [In reply to] Can't Post

This scene is in the book! They sing a song and clean the table, very effectively (maybe too much so for poor Bilbo).
James Nesbitt is obviously doing the singing here, while being accompanied on the fiddle by Dwalin!

The tossing of the dishes indicate that the dwarves have started clearing table. One is off-screen tossing the plates from one end of the table, while another is receiving them at the other end. Then the dishes are stacked in a pile and carried to the kitchen.
The dwarves are a practical, effective folk with no need for dilly-dalling here. It may seem like they are intentionally trying to harm the dishes (bilbo certainly will think that), but tey are just being quick about it. The plates will be fine!


Nov 29 2011, 10:51pm

Post #30 of 84 (1780 views)
I agree also [In reply to] Can't Post

My first impression was that this particular cut was meant to capture the plates flying past Dwalin and Bofur to give the appearance of mayhem, but that in the end it would be a well choreographed sequence showing the dwarves in complete controlled chaos as they sing and work while freaking out Bilbo in the process. The scene will probably cut between dwarves throwing the dishes and others catching them, and others wisking Jenga-like piles of dishes as Bilbo dodges and frets around them. It may make the audience cringe with anticipation, but in the end (hopefully) none of Bilbo's precious china will be harmed.

Aunt Dora Baggins

Nov 29 2011, 10:55pm

Post #31 of 84 (1771 views)
It occurs to me [In reply to] Can't Post

that the breakage could be a glimpse into Bilbo's imagination as he hears the song, and that he's surprised to look up and see that the dwarves are actually catching the plates.

"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com

Tol Eressea

Nov 30 2011, 12:21am

Post #32 of 84 (1770 views)
GOD I HOPE NOT [In reply to] Can't Post

I really hope they Keep the songs to a minimum. As someone else said I don't want a Walt Disney film I want the realistic middle earth that PJ gave us with LOTR and I really don't need The Hobbit a musical. I think Nesbitt sings a song but its more like a drinking song than one about dishes. I don't really want singing dwarfs and dancing elves, if the films are too light they wont fit the darker tone that LOTR had


Nov 30 2011, 2:17am

Post #33 of 84 (1726 views)
That would be great [In reply to] Can't Post

And to those who don't want songs, ancient peoples sang a lot. They didn't have television or Nintendo Wii, so...

Just because its music doesn't make it Disney. I, for one, hope at least "We must away ere break of day" is in. That's a truly haunting and powerful tune.


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Nov 30 2011, 2:18am)

Arwen's daughter

Nov 30 2011, 2:23am

Post #34 of 84 (1720 views)
On second thought, let's not go to Hobbiton [In reply to] Can't Post

'tis a silly place.

How will you get to the Lonely Mountain?
Help TORn log enough miles to get us to Smaug's home by Dec. 2013
Walk to Rivendell - Thursdays on Main

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Nov 30 2011, 2:38am

Post #35 of 84 (1750 views)
The Sound of Music [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
I really hope they Keep the songs to a minimum. As someone else said I don't want a Walt Disney film

Then thank goodness Tolkien didn't put any songs into his books.

He had a more intense dislike for Disney than probably anyone reading these boards. That doesn't mean he had a dislike for music and especially for song.

One thing that is especially nice about the Brian Sibley radio adaptation that the BBC did with Ian Holm is that it manages to capture the songlike spirit of Tolkien, something that Jackson for the most part failed to do.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311


Nov 30 2011, 3:05am

Post #36 of 84 (1813 views)
We saw dirty dishes stacked in Bilbo's kitchen in an earlier vlog [In reply to] Can't Post

They may or may not be filming what we see in the most recent vlog, but the dishes will make it safely to the kitchen.

Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 3:10am

Post #37 of 84 (1727 views)
Seriously [In reply to] Can't Post

Have people forgotten these little numbers we got in the trilogy?

Hey! Ho! To the bottle I go
To heal my heart and drown my woe
Rain may fall and wind may blow
But there still be many miles to go
Sweet is the sound of the pooring rain
And the stream that falls from hill to plain
Better than rain or rippling brook
Is a mug of beer inside this Took!

Oh, you can search far and wide
You can drink the whole town dry
But you'll never find a beer so brown
No, you'll never find a beer so brown
As the one we drink in our hometown
As the one we drink in our hometown
You can drink your fancy ales
You can drink them by the flagon
By the only brew for the brave and true
Comes from that Green Dragon!

These songs are just as silly (f not moreso) than any of the ones featured in The Hobbit. Yet not once have I heard of anyone listening them, throwing their arms up in the air, and shouting, "Great! PJ has gone all Disney on us! These films are ruined!"

Why is there suddenly a double standard with The Hobbit? Why are those songs perfectly acceptable for LoTR (which is already a dark and grim story to begin with), but the dwarves' songs are deemed "too childish?"

(This post was edited by duats on Nov 30 2011, 3:19am)


Nov 30 2011, 3:18am

Post #38 of 84 (1682 views)
You are so right [In reply to] Can't Post

Start the movie in the Trollshaws, segue to Dol-Guldor, some torture, a few beheadings, the Necromancer, a siege, and an epic battle. Who needs Hobbits or Hobbiton? That Tolkien, he was so silly.

Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 3:32am

Post #39 of 84 (1779 views)
Considering these little gems PJ gave us in the "dark" trilogy [In reply to] Can't Post

- Legolas and Gimli having a drinking contest, which results in Gimli passing gas, going cross-eyed and then promptly passing out.
- Merry and Pippin singing a drinking song while dancing on a table.
- Gimli trying to shoo away ghosts by blowing at them.
- Gimli tip-toeing across a path of skulls.
- The "dwarf tossing" gag.

I don't necessarily see what's so wrong with the dwarves singing during a rowdy dinner party in The Hobbit. They're about to embark on a dangerous journey that may result in all of their deaths. Why wouldn't they try to have a little fun beforehand?

As for the elves: Sauron hasn't returned to power yet, and their time is not yet over in Middle-earth. It makes perfect sense for the elves to be merrier in The Hobbit.

(This post was edited by duats on Nov 30 2011, 3:35am)

Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 5:09am

Post #40 of 84 (1681 views)
Ends [In reply to] Can't Post

Since when is a belch "passing gas?" I think you've got the wrong end.

Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 5:51am

Post #41 of 84 (1684 views)
... He farts too [In reply to] Can't Post

He leans over the table and, well, lets one rip.


Nov 30 2011, 6:15am

Post #42 of 84 (1688 views)
Oh I definitely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying that I don't think that a seen with the dishes will be in the film, just that I'm not convinced that what we are seeing in the vlog is filming, particularly filming of the dwarves breaking the dishes. There simply is no evidence of that.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'



Nov 30 2011, 6:20am

Post #43 of 84 (1715 views)
The only reason you might not get them singing the song [In reply to] Can't Post

is that it would seem very staged. Tolkein never seemed to worry too much about random people making up songs and poetry on the spot and doing it very well and sometimes he had whole groups of people do it. For instance, the plate song or the ents singing their battle song in TTT or any number of other examples. In a book you can make some kind of leap in your head that makes it okay but in film it's going to be very weird to have a bunch of characters inexplicably composing a song in unison. I think either they'll just pay tribute to it with a scene or maybe have one dwarf sing the song and everyone else act it out.

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


Nov 30 2011, 6:23am

Post #44 of 84 (1701 views)
Tolkien and Disney [In reply to] Can't Post

They should bring even more songs into the Hobbit. Thank God Tolkien was such a genious mind and created all these wonderful poems and songs, these belong to middle-earth like anything else. Why keep them out? Lyrical works, poems, songs and all that help to create and understand a culture much more, they are defining element of tolkiens cultures and peoples, how can you not like them and think it'll turn the movie to disney?
mister tolkien wouldn't have liked that.

Grey Havens

Nov 30 2011, 6:28am

Post #45 of 84 (1653 views)
Hmmm [In reply to] Can't Post

Never noticed. I just watched TT and ROTK again last week. I guess I'll have to go back for a listen of that scene just for the pleasure of it. I only have audio from the front of the TV. I guess it must be more of a whopper in surround.


Nov 30 2011, 6:30am

Post #46 of 84 (1739 views)
Memory [In reply to] Can't Post

In the ancient and dark age world was likely a bit stronger than ours, particularly among peoples with a strong oral history.

People often had a whole cache of poems and songs memorized.

It can work in the films without a problem. Someone starts, and the rest follow. They don't need to "compose" it in unison if they already know it. Particularly if its the "we must away ere break of day" song, which is part of the dwarves' cultural heritage.

Just think of how difficult it is for people to break out and sing "Deck the Halls" or White Snake's "Here I Go Again." I've been at many a party where more than 10 people sing those in unison. Smile


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Nov 30 2011, 6:33am)


Nov 30 2011, 11:29am

Post #47 of 84 (1664 views)
I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I just don't understand why this keeps coming up. Music is part of life - I reckon it would be less realistic if the songs were left out. And as you say, 'Far over the misty mountains/we must away ere break of day' is important and that's such an evocative scene.


Nov 30 2011, 12:06pm

Post #48 of 84 (1666 views)
The reason the songs in The Hobbit don't work [In reply to] Can't Post

Is because they are so specific to the situation. Particularly 'Chip the Glasses' and 'Tra-la-la-laly' which refer specifically to Bilbo Baggins. How do they all know the lyrics to songs that are so specific to what's going on?

'Far Over the Misty Mountains" is the only song that really works, because they could have sang it many times before, being such a big part of their history and quest. But the others do not.


Nov 30 2011, 12:32pm

Post #49 of 84 (1664 views)
How often have you heard [In reply to] Can't Post

.. people making up ad hoc words to existing songs to fit a particular situation? Happens all the time, even now. Songs are part of Tolkien's world - and our world. And in fact we do know that songs are being included in the films. We just don't know which songs, or when.


Nov 30 2011, 12:40pm

Post #50 of 84 (1650 views)
Have you seen these dwarfs? [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of these dwarfs resemble old rockers, or heavy metal musicians. Clearly, that whole dragon business, is just an awkward PR stunt made up by these waisted old artists, in order to gain a bigger crowd when they hit the stage in the groovy city of Lake-Town.

I even found a video of one of their gigs before they had beards: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jgrCKhxE1s

And another one with beards already: http://www.youtube.com/...&feature=related

Ceterum censeo montem artis magicae atrae esse delendam

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