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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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Jul 21 2011, 8:25pm

Post #251 of 332 (6853 views)
picture request [In reply to] Can't Post

Pipe Dream,

Great pictures! Is there any chance that you could give us a better look at the dwarves with their stand-ins? I'd like a better look at Rob Kazinsky's Fili.

Please and Thank you.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”

Marillë by the Sea

Jul 21 2011, 8:25pm

Post #252 of 332 (6727 views)
Even better, thanks!!// [In reply to] Can't Post



Jul 21 2011, 8:25pm

Post #253 of 332 (6822 views)
Khuzdul vs Norse vs Semitic [In reply to] Can't Post

Khuzdul grammar is based on Semitic languages, but Tolkien didn't create a full Khuzdul lexicon. Just bits and phrases.

He was troubled with the Dwarves' names being "plucked out of Voluspá" for this very reason – it sounded very cheap, and didn't fit in with his more proper mythology.

His answer was that the Dwarf names we see, much like the Hobbit names, Gandalf's name, and many Humans (unless they have Elvish-names) are translations of their true names. Just as Frodo Baggins is actually Maura Labingi, Gimli and Thorin and all the dwarf-names are actually translations of in-universe names.

However, the Dwarves take this a step further. The names they give to outsiders aren't Khuzdul names at all, but Mannish names from the northern languages (such as their neighbours around Lake-town). These are then TRANSLATED into Old Norse, which he used to represent them and make them sound foreign but similar to the English he used to represent the Hobbits and the Bree-landers. (Since the Rohirrim are related to these northern Mannish peoples, they speak a related dialect, which is translated then into Anglo-Saxon, since that is more related to Old Norse than the English that the Hobbits and Bree-landers speak, but also related close enough to their language to make sense).

Arwen's daughter

Jul 21 2011, 8:28pm

Post #254 of 332 (6823 views)
Sure [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's most notable in Ori's costume. Compare his jerkin here: http://araneljones.com/...7/hobbitcap3_093.jpg to this Chinese coat from the early 1900s: http://www.culture24.org.uk/.../14893/v0_master.jpg

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Jul 21 2011, 8:36pm

Post #255 of 332 (6770 views)
Ori, the thinking woman's heartthrob [In reply to] Can't Post

May I add, more relaxed and with more views of the video on top, that Im gonna love (if I do not yet) Ori. Such a sweet dwarf, and polite, and geeky.
Of course, Thorin is the handsome hero and Kili is the Robbie Williams of the bunch, and I will follow them with enthusiasm, but gentle Ori had win a place in my heart.
And I agree with the guys, "beards are gonna come back, big time!"

Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Jul 21 2011, 8:38pm

Post #256 of 332 (6764 views)
Perhaps Kili lost a bet in the Ered Luin... [In reply to] Can't Post

and had to shave his beard as a consequence. He will then be in the process of regrowing his beard while on the journey to Erebor. Perhaps by the end of the second film, Kili will be rocking a full beard once again.

Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Jul 21 2011, 8:45pm

Post #257 of 332 (6736 views)
Perhaps a Goblin?, or a Hobgoblin? [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't seem to be an Orc. (In the Hobbits story, at least on one occasion Gandalf refers to the three creatures as if they were distinct, so perhaps this is a version of one of the other two).

(This post was edited by Bladerunner on Jul 21 2011, 8:50pm)


Jul 21 2011, 8:47pm

Post #258 of 332 (6739 views)
What lifetime? If the average dwarf lives to be 260 or so... [In reply to] Can't Post

assuming nothing untoward happens to them, with some living up to 350 years, then a 77 year old dwarf is less than a third of the way through their lives lives. Kili is basically basically like the equivalent of 20 to 24 year old.(and it's not like there aren't some human guys who don't "come into their beards" until they are closer to 30, if ever,some always have a patchy, stringy looking beard--so maybe he's a late bloomer? Maybe not every dwarf is blessed with a beautiful beard, seems like looking at some of the other dwarves?)

Or hell maybe he lost it in a stupid, foolish bet? He wouldn't be the first young person to do something stupid.

To me it's a perfectly good reason and imo it's not something that is all that important to the story, either way.

The way I see it, PJ can choose what he wants to use or not use to a certain extent so long as it doesn't really make a major change to the events of the story. Aside from a few wisecracks and the occasional entanglement the beards don't play a big part of the story. They add a bit of "color" to the dwarven culture and they STILL do, imo, just in a different way because now there are likely reasons the dwarves have different styles of facial hair etc.

There is really no necessity for dwarves to be born with beards and, given dwarves are particularly long-lived, I have no problem with the idea that maybe their beards grow slowly, perhaps with growth speeding up as they age.

In Reply To
Fili and Kili are eight decades old. Are we really supposed to think that dwarves go around barefaced until they're 70 or so and then stubble starts to grow in? Heck, I'm not yet 30 and my own modest beard rivals Thorin's.

I refer you to my signature: replace "snouts" with "beards", "rhinoplasted" with "shaved", and "Truffles" with "Jewels" and you have the source itself for why dwarves ought to have full beards regardless of their age.

I'm willing to let it slide in the interests of artistic license and making each character unique, but I hold out hope that PJ invents a good reason in-universe for why some of these blokes have such short beards. All I need is for Bilbo to say something along the lines of: "I thought all dwarves had beards like you, Gandalf." A little wink and a shrug and I'd be satisfied.

(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 21 2011, 8:50pm)


Jul 21 2011, 8:58pm

Post #259 of 332 (6691 views)
Hmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, we see the goblins in FotR (which look quite different) and I don't think, they will introduce hobgoblins... Could this be Beorn mid-transformation? ^^ I know it's a stretch, but it's neck and shoulders look quite furry ;)


Jul 21 2011, 8:59pm

Post #260 of 332 (6629 views)
There's always an outlier. / [In reply to] Can't Post


Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.

Pipe Dream
Agent of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Jul 21 2011, 9:02pm

Post #261 of 332 (6687 views)
Here ya' go. [In reply to] Can't Post

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.

Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Fantastic Four

Jul 21 2011, 9:05pm

Post #262 of 332 (6682 views)
Definitely Rob K [In reply to] Can't Post

in these stills. Frown I miss him already! Dean O'Gorman is probably the best second choice they could have.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Jul 21 2011, 9:12pm

Post #263 of 332 (6592 views)
If that would be the plan, we'd see it already on the publicity photos // [In reply to] Can't Post



Jul 21 2011, 9:14pm

Post #264 of 332 (6602 views)
Many Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are perfect. Missing Rob. Hope he's well.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Jul 21 2011, 9:16pm

Post #265 of 332 (6570 views)
OMG! [In reply to] Can't Post

They are so CUTE. All of them. The whole gang of them(and their size doubles) together is just too much. I really do love them all already.

Also, is it just me or do some of those "size doubles" not look all that much shorter than some of the actors? :)

I wonder if Fili's size double here was out of a job when they hired a new Fili?(new actor, new size double?)

(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 21 2011, 9:20pm)


Jul 21 2011, 9:29pm

Post #266 of 332 (6520 views)
Best video ever [In reply to] Can't Post

This vid was perfect in every way , I've had that image of Christopher Lee as Saruman sitting in a room full of green screen in my head for over a year now... I can't believe PJ just did that.


Jul 21 2011, 9:38pm

Post #267 of 332 (6534 views)
Woohoo! [In reply to] Can't Post

So excited for this. I'm loving the differences between the dwarves and Armitage *bows down* - Leicester Lad done good Smile

Viewers of a nervous disposition may be interested to know that your television is off and I am speaking to you from inside your head...

*~* Hugh Dennis, Mock the Week *~*

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Eowyn of Penns Woods

Jul 21 2011, 9:46pm

Post #268 of 332 (6780 views)
Okay...It *had* to be done. [In reply to] Can't Post

I just had to do it! =)


Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

Fantastic Four

Jul 21 2011, 9:47pm

Post #269 of 332 (6482 views)
I hope you get to know them as well in time [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
The rest of it is something I have a hard time putting my finger to. I have become quite close to the details of the LOTR costumes over the years (both physically and emotionally in some cases) and there's a subtlety of design that seems to be missing in these costumes. Maybe I'm just not used to such high-res photos, but the trimmings and detailing all seems very overt, to me.

Afterall, The Hobbit films haven't arrived on Blu-ray, I'm sure you'll be picking the details in time. I think Ann Maskrey is putting a lot of effort into it, just like Dickson.

I do think to myself that the simpler trimmings for the Dwarves is justifiable as they are smaller than Men and Elves, although I have to admit Elrond's purple costume is rather fruity.

Now I haven't had a chance to comment on this wonderful, wonderful video, as so many of my comments would be redundant in this thread, but one thing I don't think many have commented on is how much more Dwarvish the actors look on camera, definitely their proportions and the way their training to lower their centre of gravity has paid off.


Jul 21 2011, 9:48pm

Post #270 of 332 (6548 views)
Good stuff, but I hate the axe in Bifur's head is true after all. =( [In reply to] Can't Post

And just after I was convinced someone was only messing with the promo pic(s). Really makes you wonder about the point of the edited second photo... I fear his scenes will be quite jarring and distracting because of the ridiculous axe sticking out of his forehead. Oh well. Crazy

Other than that, pretty much everything looks great. Very nice to see the camaraderie and chemistry between the actors, the little snippets of actual scenes, Cate just stunningly beautiful as Galadriel, etc. It's very generous of PJ and crew to be showing us all this stuff, I mean what other film has done/does anything similar? Not that I have followed the production of any other movie like this, and of course the scale and length of the shoot of these movies makes The Hobbit kind of a special case. Anyway, it's much appreciated, so thanks to the production for sharing a bit of the journey with us!

Arwen's daughter

Jul 21 2011, 9:51pm

Post #271 of 332 (6519 views)
*mods up* [In reply to] Can't Post

I am so making one of those hoods just as soon as I can figure out the pattern.

My LiveJournal
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Jul 21 2011, 9:55pm

Post #272 of 332 (6536 views)
THANK YOU. [In reply to] Can't Post

This needs to be a poster I can mount on my wall. You should put a little pic of Pippin modeling his scarf in the corner, hahaha :D


Jul 21 2011, 10:13pm

Post #273 of 332 (6516 views)
Balin's double to tall? [In reply to] Can't Post

Did anyone else notice that balins double looks too tall relative to the other doubles? He should be the shortest dwarf double and does not appear to be so.


Jul 21 2011, 10:30pm

Post #274 of 332 (6554 views)
Curious [In reply to] Can't Post

In the third picture, it looks like they did, in fact, do something to Armitage's nose. Looking at photos of Armitage from a side profile, it seems the "beak" quality has been pronounced somewhat.

Also, while I was thrilled to bits to see Lee at the end, I also can't help but feel a bit bad for him. I'm assuming he'll be acting out his part alone, going by the green screens.

(This post was edited by duats on Jul 21 2011, 10:33pm)

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 21 2011, 11:25pm

Post #275 of 332 (6336 views)
Oh that was good [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to see see the dwarves, they certainly look good, even kili looked a bit better.

The end with Christopher Lee was perfect

Oh and whilst I will happily admit I have no real knowledge of costumes or clothing I thought Cate looked great ( a wistful sigh should be imagined here Wink)

" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "

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