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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TheOneRing.net Exclusive: Behold! Thorin Oakenshield and Orcrist!
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arphen
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 9:13pm

Post #151 of 401 (6054 views)
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I'm in the "too human" camp. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do only a few of them look like the dwarves from Lord of the Rings? I was expecting appearances very similar to what is seen in the linked image below, and what we're seeing diverges greatly from what was earlier given:

[url=http://lotr.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dwarves&image=SpecialMakeupFX-18-jpg]

In general, their facial and body structures are too human - why aren't we seeing the telltale dwarven stoutness that was evident in Gimli and the dwarves at the Council? As for the less-altered facial structures, maybe it's meant for viewers to tell them apart easily, but still. I love the amount of unique character we see for each of these thirteen dwarves, but I think they parted ways with continuity in order to eagerly shake hands with character and personality. Frankly, it seems to me that each dwarf was made to be a main character, and I can't see how that will be possible.

So now for a scary question: what will Dain and his army look like? I'm afraid continuity will again be at stake.

The beards are my main displeasure. They simply don't appear dwarven (not necessarily according to Tolkien, but according to the previous movie rendition)...

In general, Óin and Glóin look fantastic, followed by Bifur, and Balin and Dwalin aren't terrible.

On a uniformly positive note, I love the weapons (and the ladle)!

Mín Brannon cuia!

(This post was edited by arphen on Jul 17 2011, 9:19pm)


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 9:15pm

Post #152 of 401 (6534 views)
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Different looks [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, he looks like a completely different person in all the shots. The last interview shot with the more relaxed look (and the same shirt he wore at the Powhiri ceremony - apparently he likes his Spooks wardrobe!) is the only shot where he looks like himself.


(This post was edited by lindorian on Jul 17 2011, 9:16pm)


Morthoron
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 9:25pm

Post #153 of 401 (6058 views)
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Thorin looks like a Klingon. [In reply to] Can't Post

And sorry, he's far too youthful in comparison to the descriptions in the book.

I refer you to a host of artistic conceptions of Thorin (including John Howe):

http://tolkiengateway.net/...:Images_of_Thorin_II

Please visit my new blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 9:26pm

Post #154 of 401 (5981 views)
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I have a hunch... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin, Fili and Kili have less or no prosthetics for one reason, they need to be able to show a lot of emotion on their faces, and wouldn't be able to otherwise.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:27pm

Post #155 of 401 (5967 views)
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Dain's army [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope it's much like the 13 we see already. I hope we see a mixture of different looking dwarves as well as ones that look like Gimli, Oin, and Gloin.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:32pm

Post #156 of 401 (5969 views)
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John Howe's [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol, I always thought it looked like RA was in mind when I saw it. Grandted, it's definitely older looking the RA but the features are similar. None of the other ones really capture who he is though. They just capture the age. You don't see a haunted, obsessed, and dark figure behind any of them except for Howe's - and the actual pic of RA as Thorin. So I think the pic of RA captures Thorin MUCH MORE BETTERER than any of the other drawings I've seen.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:36pm

Post #157 of 401 (5802 views)
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I don't understand [In reply to] Can't Post

"Being humbled" is not archaic language use at all, and is certainly used outside the UK (in the US, for example.) It is 'humbling' to be chosen to reveal the key dwarven character, particularly since the last reveal of Balin and Dwalin was offered to TIME magazine! It is also appropriately 'Tolkienian' if you will, to be humbled by such an honor.

I think TORN did a classy thing.


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 9:39pm

Post #158 of 401 (5928 views)
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How about the "bearded men = ugly" prejudice? [In reply to] Can't Post

Can we please drop that? Yes, I notice the smileys here and there. It still irks me. How about I go around saying all women should shave their you-know-what or else they aren't attractive, in every other topic?


Quote
That sounds promising. Does this mean they'll be retaining Tolkien's snakelike design instead of converting Smaug into the stereotypical 'winged tyrannosaurus' seen in most dragon films?

What movies have you been watching, Flagg? Wink
Flying dinosaurs, yes, but I can't recall any that looked like a tyrannosaurus.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:41pm

Post #159 of 401 (5923 views)
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Honestly... [In reply to] Can't Post

Those dwarves look totally ridiculous. Awfully bloated, andover-prostheticized,. I would NOT have chosen a lightly-graying, short-bearded interpretation of Thorin, but I would have been bitterly disappointed if the dwarves (and Thorin) looked like those.

If I had my way, the dwarves would fit both the Balin and Dwalin body and facial types. I would lose the "big-bellied, fat based, no-necked Gimli" look, as they have with Dwalin, while adding a more substantial beard to all of them.

But PJ has given us a decent lot. Barring Kili, IMO.

-GM


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Jul 17 2011, 9:50pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:45pm

Post #160 of 401 (5842 views)
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Balin and Dwalin [In reply to] Can't Post

Seem to fit that bill as well, though they have prosthetic noses and some forehead. My guess is that Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Bofur, Fili, Kili and perhaps Dori will have the greatest amount of screen time.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:46pm

Post #161 of 401 (5852 views)
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IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin and Dwalin look closer to Tolkien's vision of dwarves than Gloin and Oin, IMO.


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 9:49pm

Post #162 of 401 (5753 views)
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Completely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought that the dwarves in LOTR looked like a bunch of guys with too much latex stuck on their faces. I know I'll probably be shot down in falmes for saying this but much as I liked Gimli as a character it was despite his make-up not because of it! It was unconvincing in the same way that they use too much latex when they try to make actors look old in movies to show the passage of time.

I would far rather have these versions where the actors are able to emote through their make-up. Their faces will be more mobile and there will be a greater degree of subtlety- IMO which is just as valid as the' Shouty' (I watch a lot of Horrible Histories!) people.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 9:55pm

Post #163 of 401 (5776 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin & Dwalin are the ones who please my tastes the best. Short & strong, but not overly fat & grotesque.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 9:59pm

Post #164 of 401 (5864 views)
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Hope this link works... [In reply to] Can't Post

Try here?? http://scrapbook.theonering.net/...ts/mordor/view/11531


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 10:00pm

Post #165 of 401 (5725 views)
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I'm just being observant, I'm not complaining ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 17 2011, 10:01pm

Post #166 of 401 (5885 views)
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They have certainly varied the 'dwarf look' [In reply to] Can't Post

... a lot more than they did in LotR but I think it was essential to establish some different characters.

It's possible that the sheer weight of prosthetics played a part in it too. Remember the allergy problems John Rhys-Davies had; perhaps they thought it was wise to go a bit easier on the dwarves this time to make it a more comfortable experience or them - as well as making it easier for them to show emotion.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 17 2011, 11:57pm

Post #167 of 401 (5796 views)
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Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin looks a lot more bada** than I thought he would!...and older too!

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 12:01am

Post #168 of 401 (5760 views)
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Wrong presumption on my part [In reply to] Can't Post

As the original poster, who I assumed had English as their primary language, found the use of the phrase 'honoured and humbled' difficult to interpret, I thought that was because the phrase was an uncommon one outside the UK. I am happy to find that the phrase is more widely used than I'd realised and like you, think PJ shown TORn tremendous honour by this reveal. And that their response was entirely appropriate and gracious.


(This post was edited by bookgirl13 on Jul 18 2011, 12:02am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 12:05am

Post #169 of 401 (5806 views)
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looks good [In reply to] Can't Post

they're all perfect dwarves, even if some of their heads look abit human they're still all going to be short like dwarves


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:07am

Post #170 of 401 (5798 views)
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To use the modern phrase... [In reply to] Can't Post

"We're not worthy!"

After releasing photos via some of the major media outlets in the world, the biggest reveal goes to a fansite. "Woohoo!" and also "Wow...they really picked us?!?!"

When one is granted a great honor, among giants of a particular category (normally TORN wouldn't be mentioned next to TIME!), it's common to feel both flattered by the attention and also to feel unusually aware of one's limitations or shortcomings at the same time. That's what the phrase is commonly used to convey.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 12:12am

Post #171 of 401 (5789 views)
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Can't wait to see Thorin flip out of Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

upon finding out what th hobbit did with the Arkenstone, that scene is going to be INTENSE


arphen
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 12:17am

Post #172 of 401 (5709 views)
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Fair enough! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If I had my way, the dwarves would fit both the Balin and Dwalin body and facial types. I would lose the "big-bellied, fat based, no-necked Gimli" look, as they have with Dwalin, while adding a more substantial beard to all of them.

But PJ has given us a decent lot. Barring Kili, IMO.



Balin and Dwalin look closer to Tolkien's vision of dwarves than Gloin and Oin, IMO.


Again, my argument is more for the sake of continuity (and against the lack of “substantial beards”!), but what you said there are statements with which I can verily agree.

But even now that we’ve settled that, I’ll still lament the beards!

Brannon nín cuia


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 12:23am

Post #173 of 401 (5693 views)
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Likewise. [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed 100%. I would almost like PJ to edit out Gimli with a Balin or Dwalin-esque character for the uber-special-massively-improved editions in 2020. Smile


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 12:41am

Post #174 of 401 (5680 views)
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Suggestion: The Combined Wallpaper... [In reply to] Can't Post

of Thorin with the dwarves in the background seems to cut off part of Bombur on the left, and alot of Kili on the right, plus a good part of Thorin's left arm (right side of image) was also trimmed. Balin and Dwalin are partially obscured also. If the full width of Thorin's left arm is included then Balin could be moved to the right side of the image adjacent to Dwalin, plus none of the dwarves would need to be partially obscured. The image would also be better balanced with six dwarves on each side of Thorin. Are there any Photoshop "wizards" out there willing to tweak this group picture? Big thanks!!

btw- Thorin looks intense! Looking forward to eventually seeing Thror, Thrain and especially Dain Ironfoot!


(This post was edited by Bladerunner on Jul 18 2011, 12:50am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:46am

Post #175 of 401 (5805 views)
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Finally getting a chance to comment.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin looks just how I expected him to look when they announced RA would be playing him, which is not at all how I envisioned the Thorin from the book. But since I never expected the Hobbit movie to look like my mental movie, I'm not particularly disturbed by that. My only complaint is that the beard is too short. Other than that, I'm happy. I think I'll like him, probably more than I like BookThorin (which isn't much). I really want a full-length shot so I can see the rest of the costume and the rest of Orcrist. Pretty please?

I've been thinking what an amazing thing the production has done here. A few months ago, the great question was "How is PJ going to deal with a mob of dwarves?" We were discussing whether he'd cut some, or cast some female, or how on earth could he possibly differentiate between 13 dwarves and not confuse the audience. Now one of the major complaints is that they're too different. That's an impressive turnaround to make. It seems PJ's greatest opposition was created by himself in having all his LOTR dwarves look so similar. What most people are finding jarring is the difference between these dwarves and his previous dwarves. But we certainly won't be having much trouble telling them apart on screen. (Remembering their names is another matter!) The design and costume team deserve some serious kudos for pulling this off.

Though I, like many others, would have preferred more beard on several of them, you have to admit - they are all bearded. You can't mistake them for hobbits, or Elves (well, Kili aside...) and once we get the scale established with a few Gandalf scenes, I don't think human comparisons will be a big deal either.

Overall, I'm impressed and looking forward to these movies more than ever.

Oh, and major congrats to TORN on the scoop! So cool!


Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jul 18 2011, 12:46am)

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