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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
TheOneRing.net Exclusive: Behold! Thorin Oakenshield and Orcrist!

News From Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Jul 17 2011, 8:55am

Post #1 of 401 (28884 views)
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TheOneRing.net Exclusive: Behold! Thorin Oakenshield and Orcrist! Can't Post

For a week or so, we have been treated to an unprecedented look at the Dwarves from Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. Today, TheOneRing.net is both honored and humbled to be given the worldwide exclusive reveal of Thorin Oakenshield! (and Orcrist, the Goblin-cleaver!)



As a young Dwarf prince, Thorin witnessed the destruction and terror wrought when a great fire-breathing Dragon attacked the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor. After slaughtering many of Thorin's kin, the great serpent, Smaug, entered The Lonely Mountain and took possession of its vast store of gold and jewels. No-one came to the aid of the surviving Dwarves, and thus, a once proud and noble race was forced into exile. Through long years of hardship, Thorin grew to be a strong and fearless fighter and revered leader. In his heart a fierce desire grew; a desire to reclaim his homeland and destroy the beast that had brought such misery upon his people. So when fate offers him an unusual ally, he seizes the chance for revenge.

We'd like to whole-heartedly thank the production for giving the Tolkien fan community this final reveal! And now, we have seen the full representation of Thorin and Company! After the break you'll see a great compilation photo of the rest of the dwarves. This particular compilation is from our friend Paul (Thanks to all the Ringers sending in their masterpieces!) TheOneRing.net staff got together and offered some feedback for each and every member of the quest (as they appear on Bilbo's doorstep). Click 'continue reading' to read those comments and view a high resolution picture of each dwarf. Please share your thoughts and opinions in our comments, forum and Facebook! We also took the liberty to make some Thorin/The Hobbit themed wallpaper for your computer. Just Thorin: 800x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1280x1024, 1600x1200, 2048x1536. Thorin and Company: 800x600, 1024x768, 1152x864, 1280x1024,1600x1200, 2048x1536

Dwalin
(First revealed by TIME - click here)

Quickbeam - Coolest head-tattoos that I've just about ever seen. I'm dying to know what the designs really are. I'm dying to know where he got all those battle scars from! Perhaps we will be treated to some good old Battle of Dwarves & Orcs flashbacks...

Arwen - No blue beard - although Tolkien probably meant greyish blue... I can't figure out the exact color of his hood from the picture, but it might be dark green. Truly impressive figure indeed. Muscular arms!

Altaira - Dwalin has the look of a true dwarf warrior; strong, serious and ready for anything! I can't wait to see him in battle.

Elessar - This Dwarf looks like he knows how to handle himself in a fight. The gashes on his arms look great and the tattoo on the top of his head is equally as cool. I would love to see him smashing that Dward hammer on an orc head to represent this character in statue form.

Demosthenes - Dwalin is Balin's younger brother, and almost undoubtedly fought in the dwarf-orc wars that culminated in the Battle of Azanulbizar despite his then extreme youth. At that point he was a very youthful 27 (for a dwarf!), but consider that Dain Ironfoot, the slayer of Azog, was only five years older.

It is likely that the scars we see on Dwalin's face were acquired in this brutal battle. The shaven-headed Dwalin also possesses two rows of tattooed markings on his skull. These may or may not be Cirth Angerthas, the long row runes of Moria that Durin's line used for writing. Unfortunately, at this resolution it is impossible to be definitive either way.

Garfeimao - He is all kinds of awesome. First off, he''s bald, he's much taller than most of the others, he's got tattoos on his head and some definite scarring on his bare forearms. He looks like he's the bruiser in the group, or the bodyguard, or bouncer, or the enforcer, he's the Bull in the China shop. He's got on big, square toed boots that are fur-lined, and he also has a quilted tunic or surcoat on, but of a duller brown or grey color, like many of the others. He is wielding one heck of a War Hammer, that thing is just going to be awesome in battle. Behind that, it looks like he's got a very thick belt on and that he is wearing at least one layer of an animal pelt under the cloak. On his shoulders I see the hint of two leather straps, which are either helping to hold the cloak on, or a sign he's got another weapon strapped on his back. Rather than wearing full bracers, he's got the fingerless glove and wrist guards on, with definite enhancements. On the right hand there are two butterfly shaped metallic attachments, and on the left hand it appears to be possibly 4 or 5 bones or claws or teeth, acting as armor for the hand. And while he is bald, he does still have a nice beard and mustache, and rather than put a metal bead into the beard, he's got an ear cuff. The message is clearly "Don't mess with me or mine."

Earl - Everything about him says "weathered warrior". Looks like a giant among Dwarves, and little wonder therefore that he's on this journey.

MrCere - Brother to Balin, this guy looks like he could ride a Harley to The Lonely Mountain and just might have "bad ass" inscribed on his wallet. Body language and sharp clothing and skull tats are all fierce.
Balin
(First revealed by TIME - click here)

Quickbeam - I can instantly see the close relationship between Bilbo and Balin already -- it's easy to imagine just from this photo. With this character in particular handled memorably, audiences will forever have a fresh understanding of Gimli's grief in "FOTR" upon discovering that particular tomb in Moria...

Arwen - White beard, scarlet hood... very old-looking... He seems to truly resemble Tolkien's description. I like the pointed boots!

Altaira - Hooray that Balin looks so dignified. It's a great look for such an important dwarf in Tolkien's legendarium.

Elessar - It's great to see this Dwarf because of how much Gimli seemed to care about him. I'm excited to get a statue of this character to place alongside one of my Gimli statues.

Demosthenes - Tolkien's Balin is the eldest of the dwarves after Thorin. He takes charge of the group in Thorin's absence. After Fili and Kili, and the as yet uncast Dain Ironfoot, he is the next in line to inherit Durin's crown. As a character he must have gravitas and dignity. Here, Balin's white beard backs and rich red outfit backs this up.

The biography that the production people have provided is interesting, and, significantly, hints at a diversion from the Hobbit: "An old warrior, Balin has lived through hard times and fought many battles, yet he harbors doubts about the wisdom of the Quest to retake the Lonely Mountain."

I suspect that, in the name, of the great cinematic god Dramatic Tension (whom all scriptwriters worship), we will see several non-canon moments of conflict between Balin and Thorin.

Garfeimao - He has a Father Christmas vibe about him, which will help endear him to Bilbo, I'm sure. He has very white hair and a long beard, turned up at the edges. His surcoat is burgundy and it's quilted for warmth. He's got a very elaborate trim around the collar, down the front, on the sleeve edges and the bottom hem of the coat, where the trim is actually wider. His boots are pointed and up-turned and his pants come down over the boots, rather than tucked in like so many of the others. He's got a nice, wide belt of burgundy with black trim on it and a squared buckled and what looks like a triangular ring hanging from the belt. He's wearing what looks to be a fairly long sword with a long pommel tipped with a metallic tip. The blade is wide, and near the bottom it flares out. Not sure how he draws a sword like that, can't wait to see what the weapon looks like in action. Balin definitely looks like he comes from money and nobility.

Earl - My first reaction was, Father Christmas. But I can actually see why he and Bilbo become close friends. He seems to be a very grandfatherly figure; someone who Bilbo might look up to.

MrCere - Obviously the elder statesman of the group (in look but not quite in fact) I think we can see that he was created to be sympathetic to audiences. He does remind me a bit of Disney's "Snow White," characters. He looks like a senior citizen and who doesn't love a grandpa? His name is so linked to the LOTR films that Jackson is going to try to give us every reason to cry along with Gimli at his tomb in FOTR. And, appropriately, I can't read the name without thinking of TORn's own dear friend, the late "Balin."
Kili
(first revealed by MSN - click here)

Quickbeam - I predict Aidan Turner is going to receive the most comment (and salacious attention) from our fans, or my name isn't Quickbeam. Kili's overall look seems to be the first significant departure from Dwarven commonality, based on the books. His beard certainly hasn't grown in, so we can expect pointed comments in the film's dialogue about Kili being "too young and perhaps not ready" -- which may indeed be a clue to this character's story arc. I'm very curious about the *bow and arrow* as well.

Arwen - No yellow beard... but he looks fierce. Some find him hot, I just find him fierce looking. I like the look of those weapons. Pretty cool. Is he supposed to be Orlando Bloom in The Hobbit?

Altaira - I have a theory about the stubble instead of a beard, and the bow and arrow instead of an axe: Kili is young and has a very defiant look on his face. I believe he may have shaved his beard as a sign of rebellion and is also carrying a bow and arrow (much like a *gasp* elf) to further defy his elders. We shall see!

Elessar - Again, I like the look of the young Dwarf. He will add a bit of youth to the group as they make the journey on screen. A double maquette or statue with Fili would be pretty sweet to have in ones collection.

Demosthenes - Kili is obviously some weird dwarf-elf crossbreed. I call these creatures Dwelves. It certainly explains the very elf-like bow and quiver slung over one shoulder. He probably shield-surfs, too. The sword Kili wields may be inscribed with runes, but as with Dwalin's tattooed skull, even at the highest resolution currently available it's impossible to be certain.

Garfeimao - Like his brother, Fili, he looks clean and like he comes from money. He is wearing a gorgeous leather duster that is fur-lined at the bottom hem and at the bottom of the half-sleeve. The hem of the sleeves has the same embossed design as Fili's outfit and appears to be tooled right into the leather. He has a dark quilted tunic on under the leather surcoat, with blue lacing up the front and what appears to be a bit of a blue hood lying on his shoulders under his hair. The neck line of the leather surcoat has metal studs along the collar, which is echoed in the larger metal studs of his vambrace. The vambrace and fingerless gloves appear to be of one piece, but the glove portion has braided leather woven into it. He is carrying a fairly basic sword, which happens to have a rather unique Dwarven design to it. There is a nicely designed leather strap over his shoulder with metal studs and tooled leather, all holding a sturdy quiver of thick arrows and a heavy looking bow. His boots look more like suede than leather, and buckle on the side. And yes, he has no beard to speak of at the moment, and his hair is wild and free, a little too free. But heck, someone had to be a rebel.

Earl - He doesn't look like a Dwarf at all. In fact, both he and his brother look like Elves. I wonder if they just come from a family of "ugly Dwarves" (if you get my meaning) :D He's sure to be the Legolas of this group, what with his lithe frame, straight locks, good looks, and a bow with a quiver full of arrows.

MrCere - Women will (have) swoon over this Dwarf while I raise my eyebrows in skepticism. This handsome lad grows up to have the thick features of his relatives and the facial hair of a werewolf? It just seems too obviously designed to look "different". I don't think "different story" is what was intended. Collectively I am in awe of the character designs but this feels like Dwarves have gone Hollywood.
Fili
(first revealed by MSN - click here)

Quickbeam - Okay here come the young ones in our cabal of Dwarven comrades -- the first trace of Malibu surfer blond hair ever seen on a Dwarf (and I love it!) -- and a very sharp sword the belies the smile on his face.

Arwen - At least he has a yellow beard, although still quite short. Mostly yellow hair. I like those swords, they look fantastic. He looks like he may like to party! :)

Altaira - Absolutely love his expression. He seems to have that "bullet-proof" attitude and love of life of the young. It will be interesting seeing him and Kili 'come of age' alongside our innocent Bilbo.

Elessar - I like the young look of Fili. Its nice to see what a young Dwarf might look like. Him having duel swords should make for great action in the movie and equally great action in any collectible we might see.

Demosthenes - Fili is dwarven royalty. Sister-son and heir of Thorin and all that. The glint in his eye also makes him look like a massive troublemaker. In some ways, Fili and his brother Kili ought to be as naive as Bilbo: born after the dwarf-orc wars, they've never been outside their home-in-exile in the Blue Mountains. Until now.

Garfeimao - He's got that twinkle in his eye like he just can't wait for his first fight. He has lovely braiding in his hair and short beard, complete with metal beads like many of the others. His grey surcoat is completely fur-lined, with the neck and chest portion turned out, as well as the bottom of the sleeves. The whole coat has a wonderful Dwarfish design embossed all along the bottom hem, down the front and even on his sleeves. In fact, his pants appear to have the same embossed design on them as well. He's got a lovely wide belt with scale maille, where each scale is cut in a similar design to what is on Gloin's pauldron. He is wearing a bracer on his left arm that has an outer sheath for a small dagger, and like the others, he's wearing fingerless gloves. He carries two swords, both with that flat, angular squareness about them. I do not see a sheath on his belt, but since he is wearing a strap down his chest, I think he carries the swords on his back. His books have at least 3 leather straps buckled up the sides. He looks cleaner than the others, both a sign of his youth and possibly that he comes from money.

Earl - The Merry-Pippin of The Hobbit. I anticipate much of the lightness of the story coming from this fellow. And if Balin is someone Bilbo looks up to, Fili will probably be someone Bilbo relates to because of his youthful tolerance.

MrCere - Can you have an Elvish Dwarf? I know he and Kili are the youngest in the group but I am not sure I buy this one. He looks more likely to grow up to be Orlando Bloom than to be the others in the group of Dwarves. A smile is welcome but this design, for me, is going to need to work in context of the film because the still image isn't. I love the design but more for Richard and Wendy Pini's "Elfquest". (Which Weta ought to design BTW!)
Dori
(first revealed on The Hobbit Facebook Page - click here)

Quickbeam - Senior member of this Dwarven set, obviously, Dori exudes a real sense of royalty in this image. The rich layers to his costume, the chain, the sword, all of it suggests a "lordly" presence.

Arwen - Very impressive and lordly indeed. But don't mess with him!

Altaira - All of the costumes are fabulous, but Dori's is my favorite the 13. The rich, dark red of his robes and gauntlets is stunning.

Elessar - Looks like a very wise Dwarf to me. Just someone you could ask for guidance and would give you a solid answer. The short sword looks great and should in an action pose make for a great collectible.

Demosthenes - Has anyone told Mark Hadlow he's going to have to haul a slightly pudgy, unfit Hobbit around on his back at a few points? It's a good casting: Hadlow's shoulders look plenty broad.

Garfeimao - Dori has a bit more color to his clothing that many of the others, and it may well be that is either because he's the Head of the Household, as it were, being the oldest brother, or that he's a well off Dwarf. Either way, he has a red velvet over-coat over a red tunic, and matching red leather bracers with some wonderful leather work that appears very Dwarven in fashion. Like some of the others, he's got that blocky wide sword and a low slung sheath. In addition, he has what appears to be a heavy chained bolo to throwing hanging from his belt, so he's ready for close in action and for distance fighting. The caplet on his shoulders is adorned with leather and laces up in the front and my guess is that it is actually his hood, in a well tailored outfit. His boots look sturdy and lace up as well. And he's well coiffed, full of braiding and a big metal bead in his beard. I think it's safe to assume Dori has some money.

Earl - Perhaps the most refined-looking of all the Dwarves. Looks very gentlemanly, and it's hard to draw anything from his costume.

MrCere - I am in "The Wizard of Oz," here with the hair but I love the rich color theme and his wicked weapon and scabbard. This is a weapon of strength and damage, a sword that is half an ax; there isn't finesse here. And advanced in age there is no feeling of softness or anything feeble about him. This is a vet of Dwarven wars and a goblin killer.
Nori
(first revealed on The Hobbit Facebook Page - click here)

Quickbeam - Is it me or is it the EARS? I know Jed Brophy doesn't have ears like that. Thoroughly alien-looking Nori has cornered the market on avant-garde hairstyles. Love his belt buckle too.

Arwen - Interesting hairstyle. And what is this he's carrying? A staff? A spear? He seems ready for battle.

Altaira - There's got to be a good story behind his hair-do: family tradition with maybe a little dwarven vanity thrown into the mix? I can't wait to learn what it is.

Elessar - His hair rocks! I really dig how they did that and the look of it in the picture we saw. He looks like a bit of a goofball but probably can handle himself with that giant stick. I don't know how he'll be represented in any statue made but he'll stand out with how unique he looks.

Demosthenes - I have no idea what's going on with Nori's hair except that I suspect that someone in the costuming department has been watching too much Japanese anime. The mace on the other hand, is brilliantly intimidating.

Garfeimao - Ok, let's get this out of the way right off. The Starfish look was a bit of a surprise, but I do like how the braiding ties into it, and how there are three spikes above, and three braids in the beard below, so Nori is very symmetrical looking. And two of the braids look to be his eyebrows, awesome. He's got leather bracers and fingerless gloves with leather braided into the woolen knitting. He's wearing several layers of wool tunics and coats, with the top layer trimmed with a nice Dwarven design. He's got a wicked cool belt with a very cool geometric belt buckle. His weapon is like a cross between a quarterstaff and a club, with that large metal block on top and then a fairly sharp metal tip on the bottom. Oh, and he's got fur-lined boots that lace up, he looks very warm.

Earl - I still don't know what to make of his hair., although, given his overall look, he seems to be a little crazy... like some sort of "medicine man". He might actually be the "healer" in the group, the one who knows how to fix wounds and find herbs/leaves that aid the healing process.

MrCere - Carl's Jr. star logo is actually an homage to an ancient Middle-earth Dwarven war hero. Who knew? Eccentric and elaborate, he still has a menace to him, which is probably the only way you can walk Middle-earth with that hair. He does carry a big stick.
Ori
(first revealed on The Hobbit Facebook Page - click here)

Quickbeam - I really like Ori right away -- the lost child look on his face coupled with the curious volume he carries makes me wonder about his gentler nature. Dwarves are not known for any such gentle nature, but it's nice to imagine Ori and Bilbo will have some scholarly interests in common.

Arwen - Looks a little bit lost, maybe he's one of the more gentle dwarves. Seems overwhelmed to be in this adventure.

Altaira - Ori gives the impression that he's one of the quieter, gentler dwarves, but I bet you don't want to see him when he's mad!

Elessar - Looks very shy and translates well in what we see in the pics. As has been said I think when we see a collectible of Ori it will have a lot of power coming from it.

Demosthenes - I like Ori's book. In Lord of the Rings, while the Fellowship is reading of the grim fate of Balin's ill-fated expedition into Moria, Gimli tells Gandalf that Ori "could write well and speedily, and often used the Elvish characters."

Garfeimao - They have set Ori up as the scholar right from the start, with that book tucked under his arm. He does have a weapon, what looks like a dagger, on his left side along with a small pouch. But the bulk of his clothing does not appear to have any kind of armor or protective devices at all. He's got sweater like fingerless gloves, laced up boots, a woolen tunic and a bit, knitted cowl-like hood, complete with puffy balls at the end of the drawstrings. Not quite the warrior some of the other dwarves definitely are, but also not quite the miner or working class many some of the others are either.

Earl - With that book in his hand, it's pretty clear he's the scribe in the group. The Dwarves have had a history of unsuccessful and tragic journeyings, and it's probably no wonder they're bringing along someone to chronicle their attempt to reclaim their ancestral home. Given that fans have also already drawn the parallel to him being the one whose writing Gandalf reads in the Book of Mazarbul, it seems like the design department has hit the ball out the part with this one. Looks-wise, I wonder what his hair looks like - he seems to have a fringe.

MrCere - Scarves and hoods and a book? I think we have a scholar here who looks less intimidating and ready for battle than any of his companions. Can an image really tell us of a mild-mannered Dwarf? Yes, and his reading and writing is true to Tolkien cannon.
Oin
(first revealed by Yahoo! Movies - click here)

Quickbeam - Better eyebrows than even the first prototype eyebrows that Gandalf struggled with in FOTR! What a grumpy looking Dwarf, I must say. I'm glad he's on our side.

Arwen - He means business, I'm sure. Beautiful belt (on all of them).

Altaira - I love that he has that "I dare you" look on his face. No one is going to mess with this dwarf!

Elessar - Looks a bit cranky but one that won't take grief from any Orc out there. He's got a simple outfit but translated into a collectible should look quite nice.

Demosthenes - Oin has the look of someone who would pick a fight with a sibling. In the hobbit the brothers Oin and Gloin are famously combative, and bicker and fight repeatedly over the smallest things. Most usually over lighting fires for the company after they've stopped to camp. Extrapolating from the bio keyword "doughty", I expect Oin and Gloin will be quite formidable in battle.

Garfeimao - There is definitely a family resemblance to both is brother, Gloin, and to his nephew, Gimli. He's got a nice, full beard with lovely decorative braiding, and his coloring is mostly grey, both in hair and clothing. His overcoat is a heavy knit grey over other layers, and he's got a nice, wide belt made of braided leather. His boots are leather with a fur lining folded down and then a leather strap over that. His weapon simply looks like a big, long metal rod with a knob on top. It looks square, rather than an edged weapon, so no idea what it truly is.

Earl - His look is a throwback to the great Dwarf-Lords of old. I can see why PJ and co. decided not to follow similar designs for all of the Dwarves, but I wish they did for more than just Oin, as something about this look exudes a sense of mythic history... like a Dwarf out of a bygone age.

MrCere - Wisely, this looks like Gimli's uncle and his dour expression seems made for the conflict he and his brother Gloin spark in Tolkien's tale. Again I am impressed with the amount of character packed into each single image.
Gloin
(first revealed by Yahoo! Movies - click here)

Quickbeam - Excellent similarities between father and son shown here. That might indeed be the same battle-axe to be passed down to the Gimli character. I'm really keen on all these beard-braiding designs. Wonderful.

Arwen - I love it that he does look like Gimli, the same burning flame in his eyes. Awesome costume.

Altaira - There's definitely a family resemblance to Gimli, yet they avoided making him too similar. Well done, PJ & crew!

Elessar - I love that he looks like Gimli and its cool to see his Dad now get some time on screen. Him weilding an axe in a statue would make for a great statue to go with Balin and any Gimli one might have.

Demosthenes - Gloin's really going to need to do a lot of greying over the next 78 years. His hair and beard are completely white when we see him with his son Gimli at the Council of Elrond during the events of The Lord of the Rings.

There's another hint of discontinuity to Gloin: the production team bio describes him and his brother as "doughty Northern Dwarves". It could be a reference to Dain Ironfoot's realm in the Iron Hills, except Tolkien reveals in Appendix A that after Azanulbizar "Thrain and Thorin with what remained of their following (among whom were Balin and Gloin) ... wandered in Eriador, until at last they made their home in exile in the east of the Ered Luin beyond the Lune." What gives?

Garfeimao - You can definitely see Gimli in daddy dearest. He's wearing a black and burgundy surcoat over a burgundy tunic, and what looks like a leather and metal pauldron on the shoulders. The pauldron has braided and tooled leather and then the same metallic shapes seen on Gimli's costume around the upper arm. His bracers are also tooled leather with braiding around the edges. His beard is magnificently braided and beaded in a very decorative manner. He's carry the same Walking Axe Gimli used, and he has a smaller axe tucked into his belt on the right side. He is wearing a wide belt with a big, squared buckle and at least two small pouches hang from the belt. His boots are straight leather and lace up the calf, but have buckles at the ankles.

Earl - I can already hear Gimli's voice in my head when I imagine him speaking. He looks as grumpy and grouchy as his son. He'll probably be the one tie to our idea of Dwarves in the Lord of the Rings.

MrCere - If you put all the usual Dwarven suspects in a police line-up and tried to pick out Gimli's father, most would mark this guy easily, which is excellent, as is the ax, obviously. But this whole adventure must be pretty hard on him if he is going to be properly aged by the time the counsel of Elrond gets recorded on film where he shows up quite gray.
Bifur
(First revealed by IGN - click here)

Quickbeam - Fascinating contrast in his braided salt & pepper mustache and beard. This is one Dwarf I can see Thorin trusting as an excellent companion for the long hard quest. I wonder about the distribution of weight in his spear (which is superb).

Arwen - I love all of those costumes, and the braids. The salt & pepper beard contrasts nicely with his dark hair. Another impressive figure.

Altaira - What a fabulous head of hair and salt-and-pepper-beard. Very dignified looking.

Elessar - I love the beard on him. Something about the mix of black and grey just looks awesome. That weapon though is quite impressive and should look great with a statue from The Hobbit.

Demosthenes - For mine, Bifur looks like the coal miner and ironmonger his bio declares him to be, right down to the mattock he carries over his shoulder. This would accord with him coming from the gold-poor Blue Mountains in the far west of Middle-earth, where Thorin had eventually settled after the dwarf-orc wars.

Indeed, the production team's bio says that he, as well as Bombur and Bofur are "born and bred in the west". Or as, Tolkien puts it the LoTR appendices: "Bifur, Bofur and Bombur were descended from the dwarves of Moria, but were not of Durin's line."

Garfeimao - There is all kinds of crazy going on with Bifur, not even sure where to start. First off, he's a lefty, and I don't say that just because h's holding his spear with the left, but because the dagger on his belt is set to be drawn by the left hand. His cloak appears to be oiled leather, which would make it weather-proofed, while his boots have and interesting lacing design with what looks like animal teeth to lace around. He does have sturdy looking leather bracers on his wrists, and like the others, another layer underneath that is like a cut off glove. Everything about Bifur is angles, from the belt hanging at an angle, the dagger appears to be rather squared and sits at an angle, his jerkin has angular seams, and his spear has more than a standard pointed shaft, it also has the extra blade on the left. And then there is the hair and beard. Aside from the obvious skunk look, like some of the other dwarves, he's got braiding and beads woven into the braids. And in what appears to be a rather large lump on his forehead, he has what looks to be a section of an axe blade. How friggin' cool is that?

Earl - If that thing lodged in his skull is supposed to be the remnant of some weapon from an old battle that he's survived, he's surely a warrior. For some reason, his image brings to mind Gimli's line "He's got my axe embedded in his nervous system". Dwarves may actually have some advanced knowledge of medicine :)

MrCere - At first brush, this was a warrior for me but careful examination (and some cheating with the character description) I think we see a Dwarf hardened by years of labor including a first-class industrial accident that remains stuck in his skull. I imagine this hard labor has motivated this hard fellow into wanting his kingdom back. I see "revenge" written in this character's features and costume details.
Bofur
(First revealed by IGN - click here)

Quickbeam - My first impression was of a Mongolian horse-herder, but that's just because of his hat. Then I thought of Sally Field as "The Flying Nun." The blunt trauma of that weapon would leave the neatest 4-square imprint on a Goblin's skull...

Arwen - Malice in the eyes... Carrying a very scary weapon...

Altaira - Love the 'cat who ate the canary' expression on his face! He looks like a 'beer stein half full' personality to me. Then again, who would have any worries carrying a weapon like that half-hammer, half-axe on his shoulder.

Elessar - He looks a little like someone you would see from Russia on the Discovery channel. I like the look though. His weapon looks very much like someone who would be doing some mining. I'll be curious to see how a statue of him might come out with the particular weapon he has.

Demosthenes - Bofur is Bombur's brother, and the cousin of Bifur. Big, but not nearly as big as his brother, he's obviously the one going to be lumbered with Bombur-carrying duties. Possibly along with the impressively menacing Dwalin. I just can't work out what's sticking out of his forehead, though. Leftovers of an orc-ish attempt at brain surgery, perhaps?

Garfeimao - Bofur was the first smirking dwarf, which bodes well for personality. As a miner, he's got a rather mean, hammer/pick axe that looks like it can cleave heads almost as well as it does rocks. He looks like he's dressed for warmth, with several layers of tunic and coat, combining cottons, wools and leather trim. His pants almost appear to be fur, and it's clear his boots are fur-lined. Everything is topped off with a fur-lined cap, and there appears to be one braid flying rather loose from the left side of his cap. He looks like he'd be a hoot to be around in a pub.

Earl - Seems like a cheeky character. Look at his smile and his dimples. Another chap who doesn't look too much like a fighter. He looks more like a miner, and again, I'm wondering if Thorin brings him along keeping in mind they may need an expert in digging/mining before the end of their journey.

MrCere - Save for the smile, his costume could be that of a Mongolian war lord. His potato masher is impressive and he is fur-lined and dressed for cold winters. That couldn't be a mithril belt could it? He seems a warrior ready to leave an impression - in goblin skulls.
Bombur
(First revealed by IGN -Â click here)

Quickbeam - We always thought Dwarves were stocky, but as Tolkien thoroughly warned us, Bombur is positively *fat* and there's no two ways about it. Even his magnificent hair braid is the fattest in the land. No such thing as a low-carb South Beach diet when you're living in Exile in the Blue Mountains...

Arwen - He's supposed to be immensely fat and heavy, and so he is! Kind of reminds me of the French comic book character Obelix...

Altaira - It looks like Bombur is carrying a large ladle instead of a weapon! I wonder if he'll fight goblins with it a la Sam and his frying pan.

Elessar - This is the on Dwarf that looks exactly as I would have thought based on my on mental picture. Collecting wise a statue of Bombur is gonna be large and in charge just for the sheer girth of the character.

Demosthenes - Bombur resembles the essence of his description: "immensely fat and heavy". The fact he carries a ladle also indicates a dwarf more interested in the source of his next meal than anything else.

Expect to see this ladle used for hilarious effect in battles against the goblins in the Mountains of Moria. Bombur will surely be one of our designated comic relief dwarves: there to eat a lot, take pratfalls (think of the Enchanted River) and to be complained about when the other dwarves have to lug about his heavy frame. However, he can put a good fight: while the rest of the Company goes down meekly to the trolls, he, Bifur and Thorin fight like mad to escape capture.

He actually reminds me very much of Barliman Butterbur, to be honest.

Garfeimao - Bombur has always been described as fat, and they did not disappoint on that score. I can't even imagine how they are going to show him climbing a tree, let alone being carried by the other Dwarves once he falls into that enchanted sleep. The beard braid is fascinating, I wonder if it survives the whole film. And is he carrying a weapon, or a soup ladle? I'm quite sure his jacket hasn't closed over his belly in years, but those loose knit pants look comfy. He also doesn't appear to be wearing boots, but rather they look like lace up penny loafers to me. They are probably closer to "work shoes" like Red Wings or something, but a Middle-earth version.

Earl - From a character perspective, he looks like a cook... not a fighter at all, and I wonder if part of the reason (in the movies) Thorin brings him along is to have someone resourceful in the food department. As far as his look is concerned, he's quite adorable once you get used to him - though I'm not too sure about his hair necklace, it wouldn't be wise to have something like that when going on a perilous journey, he's liable to hang himself or get his scalp injured, but I guess that's part of the quirkiness of the chap.

MrCere - That is a formidable hair necklace, likely to drive the Dwarven women, nay even Elven women mad with envy. He looks as though he can out-eat a table of Hobbits and evokes the stereotypical well fed English lord of the late 19th century if only he had a monocle. Woolen trousers? I guess so in the age before elastic waistbands.


Thorin

Altaira - Wow! Just wow! I always pictured Thorin as a bit older. Thorin was 195 years old when he went on the journey to Erebor, which suggest he was about 60 in man years. However, a closer examination of Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings suggests that Dwarves were hale and hardy right up until their death, (which was more often than not in battle). Durin VI died in battle at age 249, Thorin's grandfather Thror died in battle at age 248, and Dain Ironfoot who joins the Battle of the Five Armies was 252. So a younger looking, hale Thorin isn't that far out of the box. Age aside, Armitage captures the look of a fierce, exiled king, determined to regain his kingdom well. Orcrist is spectacular. All in all; another win for PJ and Weta Workshop! Hats off to the costume and make-up people too. They've done a fabulous job with all the dwarves and we'd be remiss not to mention them.

Elessar - Looks like someone who is dead set on getting something done. In other words don't cross him or he'll run ya through. Collectibles wise I can't wait to see a statue that expresses that power with that sword.

Earl - YAY! A million times YAY! I'm so excited about this.
And what's more... I'm excited that I'm IN LOVE with Thorin. Well, with how he looks anyway. He's perfect. He's not too old, yet not too young either. He looks fierce yet venerable, a person whom one would both follow into battle were he to lead them, and a person whom one would honour were he to be seated upon a throne.
And his sword? That's Orcrist for sure. It has a resemblance to Bilbo's Sting. Look at the shape of the pommel with the writing on it, and the "Elvish" curve-design upon the blade (both similar to what Sting has).
If anyone had any qualms about Armitage being "too young" portray Thorin, well then let them put all doubt aside. We're gonna get a character more memorable that ever we've imagined! :o)

MrCere - I am looking into the face of the man who drives a group of Dwarves to attempt to take back a mountain from a dragon. Not only must he convince me, he must convince a group of Dwarves that their small band can overcome Smaug the Magnificent. I believe he will be a major source of conflict with Bilbo and obviously with other races and will be the thrust behind much of what happens. While his armor and leathers look great, and so does his ring, I am all about that sword. I want more details of course but I can believe that is one of the most storied weapons in all of Middle-earth.

Maegwen - Fierce, intense, fantastic-looking. I'm a bit concerned that he does not look older than any of the other dwarves. But there is no doubt that this is the guy who is the leader, who has the arrogance and single-mindedness to push through at all costs. Even to his own eventual downfall. I like it.




(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 17 2011, 6:00pm)


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:04pm

Post #2 of 401 (17738 views)
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A day of high honour for TORn! [In reply to] Can't Post

This indeed is the heart of Tolkien fandom on earth... a day to remember!

Oh! And Richard Armitage as Thorin is perfect. I can almost hear him telling me in his gruff voice "Pray don't mention it" Cool



little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 17 2011, 4:05pm

Post #3 of 401 (17679 views)
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Yes! Awesome, this is so great [In reply to] Can't Post

love the looks, Armitage will be perfect


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 4:08pm

Post #4 of 401 (17888 views)
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Sorry Boromir... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but you are no longer the denizen of Middle Earth that I would happily turn gay for!

Amazing. Simply amazing. That it all I have to say Smile


Snulle
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 4:12pm

Post #5 of 401 (17502 views)
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Fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

Huge congrats to the exclusive. Well deserved!

I want to see the details on Orcrist but what we see is more than enough to please me.
It will get some time to get used to the younger Thorin but overall he looks great! Sly


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:12pm

Post #6 of 401 (17679 views)
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This is a great, hale and hardy Thorin! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, he's younger than what I've always had in my head, but not by much. To repeat my comment in the main story, Dwarves seemed to be hale and hardy right up to the end of their life spans (check out Appendix A). So, go Armitage. I can't wait to see your portrayal!

Wow! Just wow! I always pictured Thorin as a bit older. Thorin was 195 years old when he went on the journey to Erebor, which suggest he was about 60 in man years. However, a closer examination of Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings suggests that Dwarves were hale and hardy right up until their death, (which was more often than not in battle). Durin VI died in battle at age 249, Thorin's grandfather Thror died in battle at age 248, and Dain Ironfoot who joins the Battle of the Five Armies was 252. So a younger looking, hale Thorin isn't that far out of the box. Age aside, Armitage captures the look of a fierce, exiled king, determined to regain his kingdom well. Orcrist is spectacular. All in all; another win for PJ and Weta Workshop! Hats off to the costume and make-up people too. They've done a fabulous job with all the dwarves and we'd be remiss not to mention them.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 17 2011, 4:13pm)


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:12pm

Post #7 of 401 (17533 views)
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Now thats a warrior! [In reply to] Can't Post

Possibly not what I was expecting but it works so well- you can see the fierce determination in his eyes. Looks quite human but in a different way to Kili (i think Thorins image works!)

Orcrist looks superb as well


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "

(This post was edited by Hengist on Jul 17 2011, 4:22pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:13pm

Post #8 of 401 (17538 views)
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What a wonderful costume! [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously, I love the intricate Dwarven plate mail, the leather straps, the blocky rings, and Orcrist looks very like Sting (do I spy a subtle blue glow?).

On the other hand, most of my fears about Richard Armitage's casting have just been confirmed – he looks about 40% younger than he should, and his face is smooth and free from Dwarven prosthetics (apart from the nominal nose enlargement). I appreciate the strands of grey, I really do, but I'd feel much more comfortable if this was Bofur or Kili we were looking at. This simply is not my Thorin.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:14pm

Post #9 of 401 (17540 views)
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An intriguing take... [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow! Wasn't expecting this to appear (seemingly out of nowhere) on the boards...on Sunday (in the States) and without even being on the main page, yet!

At first glance, I like it, even if Thorin does appear a bit reminiscent of a Klingon (even more so than Oin)...in fact, he resembles Chancellor Gowron quite a bit.

I'm not sure if this Thorin is as iconic or recognizable as possible, given the memorability and obvious personality of most of the other Dwarves...but I'm sure this will become the definitive film Thorin just as Viggo eventually won that title for his protrayal of Aragorn.

Any chance of a full-body pic? Tongue Anyhoo, thanks for this and the great work in general. Cool

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 4:16pm

Post #10 of 401 (17475 views)
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Yes, Orcrist is the perfect sister-weapon to Sting! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2011, 4:18pm

Post #11 of 401 (17541 views)
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Well, i gotta get used to the fact that some dwarfs in The Hobbit look just like humans... [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks bad-ass... but not what i consider dwarvish. Oh well... at least Kili doesn't look so out of place anymore... Wink


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:19pm

Post #12 of 401 (17542 views)
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I do think this is rather outside the box [In reply to] Can't Post

This Thorin does indeed look hale and hardy, as he should, but as a 195-year-old, the sheer amount of time he has spent existing – the vast majority of it in exile – means that he should look significantly more battered and grizzled than he does here. When I look at Armitage's face, I simply do not see anything evocative of Thorin's true age.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 4:19pm

Post #13 of 401 (17398 views)
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Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Congrats TORN

FTW Thorin Oakenshield


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 4:22pm

Post #14 of 401 (17412 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

First thought? Alice Cooper.



Second thought? Right on, Alice Cooper is awesome.

Third thought? How cruel not to reveal him in full so people on this board can photoshop him into the picture with the other dwarfs. Tongue



(This post was edited by Runk Snusgrop on Jul 17 2011, 4:24pm)


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 4:22pm

Post #15 of 401 (17460 views)
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He looks so amazing! [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously, he is going to be awesome. He looks absolutely perfect, even if nothing like i'd ever imagined him. I can't wait to see him in action, especially with that sword. Orcrist will fit in quite nicely with Glamdring and Sting. Overall impression - 100% satisfied. Cool


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 4:23pm

Post #16 of 401 (17482 views)
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The OneRing gets to reveal Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool. Thorin is very similar to how I imagined him.


(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jul 17 2011, 4:27pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:24pm

Post #17 of 401 (17484 views)
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He's not the only Dwarf who had years of hardship [In reply to] Can't Post

And, like I said, many of them were leading battles at 250+. He's only around 60 in man-years, and Armitage looks 50-something. I respect that you don't like Armitage as Thorin, but it's really not that much of a stretch if you compare his relatively young 195 to 250 year-old dwarves leading battles. They couldn't have looked like dottering old men to be able to do that. Tolkien never mentioned it, but Appendix A does suggest that dwarves *were* hale and hardy right up until they died, much like the decendents of the Numenoreans. If they *were* hale and hardy, I don't see why they couldn't have looked that way too.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 4:24pm

Post #18 of 401 (17507 views)
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Dwarf Perfection [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow....this is perfect. The costume is incredibly detailed. Orcrist is such a beautiful blade, I would very much like to have it! Smile He is just the Thorin I imagined! I am very impressed with PJ and his crew. Richard Armitage was made for this role! I'm so glad TheOneRing.net had the honor of unveiling the precious picture!! So fierce and intense! I can't get over this picture!! SmileSmileSmileSmile

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:24pm

Post #19 of 401 (17484 views)
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I detect a bit of grey around the edges, and in the beard... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but not in the heart! This is an intimidating Thorin. As he should be!

And now we know the answer to the mystery of Kili: he resembles his uncle! Smile

The whole group together, here? Thank you! Heart


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Marionette
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 4:26pm

Post #20 of 401 (17354 views)
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Oh my goodness [In reply to] Can't Post

I was like wooooooowwwwwww

Really it is very different from the first image at Bag End, surprised again

Oh my Love Thorin, the badass of all SlySlySly

"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"


rings7
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 4:27pm

Post #21 of 401 (17420 views)
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Since i was already expecting a young looking Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

i wont get into that anymore. The rest of it and the Orcrist look just awesome!

Not to mention my CONGRATULATIONS TO THEONERING.NET for the exclusive!!! You guys so deserve it!Cool


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 4:29pm

Post #22 of 401 (17371 views)
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Sup with his fingers? They all have really fake ears and Banana hands :( // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


flodwyns
Bree


Jul 17 2011, 4:31pm

Post #23 of 401 (17343 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

agree absolutely.... an amazing image with great detail of armour/sword

I have no fear that Armitage will really do justice to this!

great moment for TORn!


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 17 2011, 4:32pm

Post #24 of 401 (17369 views)
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"Young dwarf prince" [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, that seals the deal, I guess.

To start this post off on a positive note, his costume is beautiful, and Orcrist looks simply fantastic. And seeing this picture, I've actually come around a little bit to the black hair - but that is mostly due to the presence of gray here and there. Had it been pure black, I probably would have still taken issue with it. So I'm glad we have a little salt and pepper going around.

That beard, however, is terrible. As a member of Longbeard dwarves, I was hoping that PJ would have gotten this right. He didn't. There is nothing kingly or dwarvish about it.

Again, I get the need to differentiate each dwarf, but you can diversify beard styles without compromising length to such an extreme. This is NOT a dwarf beard - much less one suitable for a king.


(This post was edited by duats on Jul 17 2011, 4:38pm)


Ref
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 4:33pm

Post #25 of 401 (17316 views)
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Awesome [In reply to] Can't Post

Well I wouldn't want to mess with him Wink Total bad-ass!

Viewers of a nervous disposition may be interested to know that your television is off and I am speaking to you from inside your head...

*~* Hugh Dennis, Mock the Week *~*

Icon made by the talented miss_jaffacake


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:34pm

Post #26 of 401 (7525 views)
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Thorin's brother Gorin? [In reply to] Can't Post



TongueTongueTongueTongue

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 17 2011, 4:34pm)


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:35pm

Post #27 of 401 (7346 views)
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He looks absolutely fantastic. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love that gleam in his eyes! He definitely looks like someone that can lead a party to reclaim a kingdom.

Love Orcrist, too. Definitely looks like something that could come from Gondolin.

My Website! ~ My artwork and photography at dA

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:36pm

Post #28 of 401 (7340 views)
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LoL, Captain Salt [In reply to] Can't Post

Too funny.LaughLaugh

I can tell this is going to be an interesting day. Wink


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Snulle
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 4:38pm

Post #29 of 401 (7350 views)
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Maegwen is so excited that ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... she mistakes Bombur for Thorin? Cool Crazy

Once again Orcrist is simply perfect. "Must have it must have it my preciousss ..."
United Cutlery do your thing! Heart


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 4:39pm

Post #30 of 401 (7290 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

and yep, this thread should be quite the milestone, probably hitting 1000 posts in the next 45 minutes! Wink

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 17 2011, 4:40pm)


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 4:41pm

Post #31 of 401 (7378 views)
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I reckon a lot of it will come in the performance [In reply to] Can't Post

Take Matt Smith, the current Doctor in Doctor Who. He's 28. He looks 28, when you look at a photo of him, and in interviews when he's himself he often behaves 28. But his performance says "I'm 900+ years old, I'm wiser and crazier and more alien than any of you lot". It's in the eyes and the way he holds himself. Merely looking at what (I think) is a fabulous costume can't portray that - but I think Armitage could pull off the 195-year-old king in exile pretty well.

Boardwalk in mangroves


Ravenry
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 4:42pm

Post #32 of 401 (7334 views)
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PMSL [In reply to] Can't Post

Well at least people can't moan that he's too good looking. Congrats to TORN on getting the pic. I got a text this up whilst doing me ironing.
It's not what I was expecting but think it works.
I like them all to be honest. They have to be suitably different for an audience to identify and be able to follow.


Black Breathalizer
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 4:42pm

Post #33 of 401 (7410 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

Like other posters, the Thorin in my imagination looked like this---only older. I would have had a couple of distinguished grey streaks in the beard on either side of the goatie. That said, the look is certainly not bad--and I love the sword. I had a similar opinion the first time I saw a picture of King Theoden and when all was said and done, I loved Bernard Hill's performance so I will be keeping an open mind.

All in all, I love the look of Thorin and Company. The designers gave each one a distinctive look that gives clues to their personalities. Given the challenges of giving much screen time or dialogue to 13 separate dwarves, this is very important.


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 4:43pm

Post #34 of 401 (7304 views)
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I want to see more of Thorin! [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks fierce and ready for battle!

Congrats for the exclusive, well deserve, as many here have already said.

But I want to see Thorin's... boots!


(This post was edited by dwarf_girl on Jul 17 2011, 4:47pm)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 4:45pm

Post #35 of 401 (7456 views)
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Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no denying it's impressive. I was actually browsing through google for dwarf pictures and thought this was a mock-up to be honest. It was only when i saw the site it came from was here and the date was the current one that i realised this is indeed it.

Well, six months of virtual cold sweats over what an Armitage Thorin might look like and this is what we get. It'll come as no great surprise that i don't really buy the 'human' head proportions (and body proportions- he looks rather slim, slimmer than he did in the Empire pics). Then again at such a close shot we can't see much of the body (which is a pity since his costume looked like it'd be very cool). Am i sold? No, can't say i am. It's hard not to feel some kind of impact given the intensity of the glare and 'in your face' zoomed in view (as opposed to the rest of the company's rather sedate full body shots) but he's more Gerard Butler than John Rhys Davies and the flecks of grey, while appreciated don't do an awful lot to extinguish that impression or that he is still very much the heart-throb with only the possible addition of a prosthetic nose alongside the beard to disguise his distinctive features.

And yet i'm not disgusted wholly- i like the richness of the black of his costume and the sky blue of Orcrist's baldrick (the strap) is obviously a nod. Orcrist is a bit interesting itself- it looks like it's a single-edged blade as opposed to the double-edged more conventional swords of Glamdring and Sting- are they trying to play up the idea of a dwarf lord weilding an elven blade? I also like the stitched scale armour on his upper arm- it does look like it's part of the clothing rather than a separate garment.

So there's good and there's bad, and it's an interesting take, but in terms of his build and his features he's a million miles from Thorin as i know him.

Dr Death


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 4:46pm

Post #36 of 401 (7323 views)
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I do like the look in his eyes [In reply to] Can't Post

But he needs a bigger beard.

And he actually looks quite average-dwarf to me... speaking about making the dwarves stand out from each other, I think a similar but older Thorin would have stood out more.

So does he have Orcrist with him from the beginning, or does this mean the pics show the dwarves as they appear later in the films?

Since this (supposedly) younger Thorin still witnessed Smaug's attack on Erebor, how does this affect the timeline?


Quote
Third thought? How cruel not to reveal him in full so people on this board can photoshop him into the picture with the other dwarfs.

So true Tongue


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 17 2011, 4:47pm

Post #37 of 401 (7315 views)
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Congratulations TheOneRing.net! [In reply to] Can't Post

Brilliant! Is he how I imagined Thorin? No. Do I think he'll make a good Thorin? Yes, I do, and I'm looking forward to seeing it happen.

Grey hair - check (well, greying)

Presence, and power of command, and anger - check

Any niggles? It would have been nice to see the whole costume...

(And please TORn, don't scare me like that again. Couldn't quite believe it when I saw that staring back at me from the Home Page! Wink )


aifeme
Rivendell

Jul 17 2011, 4:48pm

Post #38 of 401 (7332 views)
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Thorin Oakenshield [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks like some pirate from RoTK, cool thoughWink


Snulle
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 4:50pm

Post #39 of 401 (7288 views)
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Same here. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So there's good and there's bad, and it's an interesting take, but in terms of his build and his features he's a million miles from Thorin as i know him.

Dr Death


A million miles what I had expected too. But I will get used to this eventually. Overall they all look great except for Kili. But hopefully he will grow on me too.
And it's one thing see them lined up as ready for the catwalk. It's when we see actual images from the movie we can start to say omg or yay.

And I'm quite postive it will be a big yay when that day comes! Cool


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 17 2011, 4:55pm

Post #40 of 401 (7245 views)
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Pretty much [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree with the decision to make Thorin younger, but I understand why they did it. It may be a deviation from the book, but there is potential in this take on the character. So while I'm disappointed, I'll keep my mind open.

The beard is literally the only weak link I find with this design. If ANY dwarf in this company was meant to have an impressive beard, it was Thorin.


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 4:57pm

Post #41 of 401 (7189 views)
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LMAO [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, Thorin could be the ultimate rock star.


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 17 2011, 5:01pm

Post #42 of 401 (7168 views)
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OMG, he looks awesome! [In reply to] Can't Post

OMG, he looks awesome! I was really doubtful that a yound thorin was going to work but he is abserloutly brilliant, I can't wait for the movies and please get a wide shot. keep us posted....

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 5:05pm

Post #43 of 401 (7053 views)
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Mistakes? No no... [In reply to] Can't Post

Bombur is the new leader now, you can tell by how fierce and intense he looks! Tongue


Nesse
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 5:06pm

Post #44 of 401 (7056 views)
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I love it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah I imagined him with a bit more grey and he does look piratey but I really like it, he makes Gimli look like a mummys boy.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 17 2011, 5:06pm

Post #45 of 401 (7092 views)
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Congratulations to TORn on the exclusive reveal !!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Coming to the picture, I am really disappointed !! Why cannot PJ and Co. give the leader of the dwarves a long beard that is the sign of dwarven pride ?? On the other hand, the designs of the costume and orcrist are absolutely beautiful !!!


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 5:07pm

Post #46 of 401 (7114 views)
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The perfect place to reveal Thorin! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good on you, guys, good on you.

While I've always loved the swords in The Lord of the Rings, I've never been knocked off my feet by them—they're tools and they're meant not to distract you. But I think Orcrist is absolutely beautiful. The moon crossbar is just breathtaking. I think I'm in love, guys.

They've widened Armitage's face a little—after observing him in the The Vicar of Dibley finale, he's got a pointed face—and made his nose a little bulbous. Definitely a dwarvish face, if a ridiculously attractive one. Love the salt and pepper (heavy on the pepper) hair, although he does look a bit younger than I saw Thorin. But it's not completely out of left field (Kili) and I have every confidence that Armitage will make it work. Love the Padawan braid, but I don't care for the goatee. Apparently the nobility doesn't care for beards, young or old… I'd have preferred a full, if short, beard to the goatee, but it looks good on Armitage and is at least consistent for the family group.

I do wish we got a full body shot, considering the proportion issues with Kili—Armitage is a tall and fairly lithe gentleman, so I do hope they've bulked him up properly.


(This post was edited by eralkfang on Jul 17 2011, 5:08pm)


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 5:07pm

Post #47 of 401 (7150 views)
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PERFECTION! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I realize I'm yelling. No, I can't help it. Tongue

My first exposure to The Hobbit was that old Rankin-Bass cartoon, so naturally it colored my perception of what Thorin looked like. Richard Armitage looks nothing whatsoever like that old mental image, and yet he's utterly, wonderfully...PERFECT!

Actually, I love all of the Dwarves, right down to the "pretty one" and the guy with the axe in his skull (Yes, I know their actual names, but I also know that's what all the newbies will end up calling them, so why shouldn't I start now? Wink).

I am now officially jonesing for the Hobbit movies.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 17 2011, 5:09pm

Post #48 of 401 (7172 views)
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LMFAO! thats exactly what went through my head the moment I first saw him, LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Hamfast
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 5:11pm

Post #49 of 401 (7107 views)
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Unforgettable Tolkien fan moments. [In reply to] Can't Post

The last couple of weeks have been amazing. Thorin looks majestic. Seeing all the dwarves together like this gives me nerd chills. Truly.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 17 2011, 5:12pm

Post #50 of 401 (7091 views)
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Congratulations to TORn, for getting this major scoop! [In reply to] Can't Post

and thanks for all the pics together with the names I am STILL getting mixed up.

Permanent address: Into the West





Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2011, 5:18pm

Post #51 of 401 (6125 views)
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I like it [In reply to] Can't Post

But no full body shot Frown ?


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 5:18pm

Post #52 of 401 (6367 views)
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'the great serpent, Smaug' [In reply to] Can't Post

That sounds promising. Does this mean they'll be retaining Tolkien's snakelike design instead of converting Smaug into the stereotypical 'winged tyrannosaurus' seen in most dragon films?


holydiver
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 5:19pm

Post #53 of 401 (6281 views)
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I take it all back... [In reply to] Can't Post

Holy mackeral, that's cool!


(This post was edited by dernwyn on Jul 17 2011, 5:22pm)


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 5:20pm

Post #54 of 401 (6247 views)
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Oooh! Good pick on that bit of detail... [In reply to] Can't Post

... very interesting. I've been paying attention to the descriptions that have accompanied the Dwarf pictures, and this seems to be something worth hanging on to Cool



Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 5:20pm

Post #55 of 401 (6215 views)
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We knew you'd come through, Holydiver! [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue He oozes cool doesn't he?


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 5:23pm

Post #56 of 401 (6146 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Not Thorin as I envisaged him when reading the book as a child, but his image here is chilling. One can see him holding the orcs at bay as they attempt to get into the Lonely Mountain. And confronting the Great Goblin and Thranduil.

He's going to be awesome facing the Master of Laketown and who will come off best, Beorn or him?

Seriously I've to wait until Xmas 2012 Frown

Congratulations TORn on the exclusive Smile


Snulle
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 5:25pm

Post #57 of 401 (6165 views)
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Offtopic but ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm fairly sure that he will look something like this.
http://www.wetanz.com/...oweSmaugORIGlrg3.jpg

Much of the looks in the LOTR movies was based on his illustrations and as he is back in the production again I'm pretty sure we can expect something similar with the look of Smaug.


namarie
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 5:27pm

Post #58 of 401 (6078 views)
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Congrats TORN for the exclusive :-D [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin doesn't look too old but I see some grey hair Wink

I hope everyone is satisfied :)

Did anyone noticed Orcrist looks like a bigger version of Sting? I like that.

I wonder if it will glow blue when orcs will be arround :)


There is always hope

(This post was edited by namarie on Jul 17 2011, 5:28pm)


Elfhelm
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 5:28pm

Post #59 of 401 (6150 views)
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Looks great! [In reply to] Can't Post

An intense, commanding presence for the leader, just what was required. Add to that his deep voice so I think we can expect a stellar performance from him, Armitage's casting really seems spot on. Personally I don't think his age is a problem at all, besides if he portrays a middle-aged dwarf (they live up to ~400 years or so, IIRC) he really need not look old(ish) by human standards.

Did anyone notice he seems to have diamonds or something embedded onto his lower front teeth?

And again the costume is fantastic. I love the design of Orcrist, too. Simply beautiful.


Morok Cloudkeeper
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 5:29pm

Post #60 of 401 (6133 views)
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WOW! [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks so badass! And Orcrist looks gorgeous!

Power can be held in the smallest of things...




duats
Grey Havens

Jul 17 2011, 5:29pm

Post #61 of 401 (6121 views)
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That's what I got out of it [In reply to] Can't Post

Fingers crossed, Flagg. Fingers crossed.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 5:30pm

Post #62 of 401 (6177 views)
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Just the highlights [In reply to] Can't Post

And dwarves have an average life expectancy of around 250 years, though some live huge lengths longer (Dain is described as being certainly geriatric at 252 and yet Dwalin lives to i believe 340)

Dr Death


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 5:39pm

Post #63 of 401 (6081 views)
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A full body shot woulda killed the studios? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 5:41pm

Post #64 of 401 (6082 views)
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Thank you for honoring TORn, PJ! [In reply to] Can't Post

We love you too!

My first impression of Thorin is very positive. They've decided to make him younger, and I can see the reasons behind the decicion and accept it.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 5:48pm

Post #65 of 401 (6100 views)
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I want a full body shot! [In reply to] Can't Post

But if this doesn't allay the fears of the "he's gonna be too young and HAWT!" then there's just no pleasing some people. :P

He looks awesome, and I love it! Everything about it!



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 5:49pm

Post #66 of 401 (6071 views)
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Woohoo [In reply to] Can't Post

Congrats to TORn for getting this exclusive!!!

And what a great picture. He is looking really sturdy. A guy who can lead a group into battle and finish the quest to the Lonely Mountain.

And I love the group pic. Changed my desktop picture immediately (although I have to say that I am missing Kili's wavy hair)



Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 5:50pm

Post #67 of 401 (6055 views)
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Small, slender human fingers is what you want? [In reply to] Can't Post

First they're too human-like, then..... Tongue

And the ears are needed because of the big wigs. I could live without them, but I assume they looked goofy with their ears invisible or something, and they decided to give them fake ears.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


namarie
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 5:52pm

Post #68 of 401 (6053 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
Did anyone notice he seems to have diamonds or something embedded onto his lower front teeth?



Initially I thought that he has something on his teeth too, but they are too white and they reflect the lights from the studio where the photo was taken Laugh

Just click and see the bigger version of the picture and you will see what I mean :)


There is always hope


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 5:54pm

Post #69 of 401 (6075 views)
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Richard Armitage is kingly [In reply to] Can't Post

as himself, let alone when he performs.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 5:54pm

Post #70 of 401 (6090 views)
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Oh come on- he's hardly ancient [In reply to] Can't Post

He may look intense and angry but he still looks young and like Richard Armitage, so anyone who's willing to look past a tiny bit of face fuzz will see he's still an attractive human. It's hardly like he looks like Gimli.

To be honest i'm almost relieved he doesn't look too dwarven. If he had the full works done to him and it was just his more or less black hair that was the issue i'd have a hell of a job removing him from my mental imaginings, but this will be easy. In fact, looking at him, am i the only one to get a whiff of Jack Sparrow?

Dr Death


Ececheira
Bree


Jul 17 2011, 5:55pm

Post #71 of 401 (6109 views)
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Utterly awesome [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations on the exclusive.

Love this pic - words fail me...


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 5:57pm

Post #72 of 401 (6098 views)
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Yes, Theoden too looks too young [In reply to] Can't Post

But Bernard's acting is so amazing I don't give a damn.

Also, Galadriel isn't pretty enough, Saruman isn't White anymore, Boromir isn't at all like in the book's description. Too bad I can't see their wrongedness over the awesome that shines from those performances.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 5:57pm

Post #73 of 401 (6310 views)
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*hyperventilates* [In reply to] Can't Post

**SQUEEEEE!!!!**

Me like.



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 5:58pm

Post #74 of 401 (6027 views)
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I think it is just a lighting artifact [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen a close up of his face and I think what you're seeing is not diamonds but lighting bouncing off his teeth.

Though it is one way to display your wealth - diamonds in the teeth.


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 5:58pm

Post #75 of 401 (6094 views)
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I think he looks wonderfully dwarven... [In reply to] Can't Post

...also, he doesn't look like Jack Sparrow, or Khal Drogo, or Blackbeard, or a Klingon (boy am I sick of hearing about Klingons!). He looks like Thorin as PJ intends it, which is all that matters.


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 5:58pm

Post #76 of 401 (6651 views)
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And Kili is the Dwarf that... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I would happily go straight for. Tongue Yeah, I know he doesn't look particularly Dwarvish, but does anyone really want to see a face as handsome as Aidan Turner's hidden by ten pounds of prosthetics?


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 5:59pm

Post #77 of 401 (6529 views)
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Prosthetics [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
with only the possible addition of a prosthetic nose alongside the beard to disguise his distinctive features.



He also has prosthetics on his forehead/eyebrows, that are very much in line with the amount of prosthetics worn by the rest of the company. Only the jumbo sized Bombur and the bizarre Nori are obviously wearing more, with Gloin wearing slightly more to make him resemble Gimli. IMHO, all of the dwarves are perfectly acceptable with (again) the exceptions of Fili and Kili, who more closely resemble a man, and an elf.


(This post was edited by Muireadhaigh on Jul 17 2011, 5:59pm)


Bound
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 5:59pm

Post #78 of 401 (6429 views)
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Conrats to ToRN and... AWESOME... [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the picture, it works for me. Thorin looks great, but I had no real doubts...


Congrats to Torn for getting the exclusive and thanks to PJ and co for giving it to us !!

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:00pm

Post #79 of 401 (6469 views)
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Wow! Congratulations... [In reply to] Can't Post

Long time lurker finally getting off her rump to post. First of all, many congratulations to TORn on the most mighty of dwarves reveals. TORn deserves it.

As my favorite characters in Mr. Tolkien's universe have always been Thorin, Beorn and Radagast, I'm very happy to see Thorin so well represented by Mr. Armitage and the wonderful costume and make up folk. WETA take a bow. I want that armor and Orcrist. X-x. This is the first Middle Earth costume/weapon that I'd really love to own.

Personally, I think Thorin looks like a younger Ian McShane and somewhat Klingon-like. I mean this in the most positive, warrior based sense. This is a dwarf who will reclaim his throne and kingdom no matter what. Very fierce, very blunt, very arrogant.

Richard is Perfect.

Hot in a very charismatic, character driven way, but I do not see Richard's Thorin in the same kind of hot vein as Kili and Legolas/Aragon.

I'd follow Thorin Oakenshield to the Lonely Mountain and die for him. Hell, I'd do that if they aged the character more. It's all in Richard's commanding gaze. I believe he'll own this part.

May the purists forgive me, but I do hope PJ and Fran have embellished some of Thorin's speeches so he gets as much screen time as possible.

If I were Bilbo, I'd be really nervous around Richard's Thorin. :)

I think all of the dwarves are wonderful in their design and look. Very unique.

My favorites (in order) are:

Thorin > a dwarf king if ever there was. I cannot wait to see Richard go full Thorin on the enemy and pass a bit of cranky onto Bilbo. It will be very hard to watch him die because I can already sense how much Richard has invested into the role.

Bifur > his hair and beard colors and the head wound remind me of my favorite 'real' mountain man: Grizzly Adams.The fur trappers are a big fascination for me. Since Dwarves are mountain men (literally ;)), it's no surprise they are my favorite race in Middle Earth. I hope the head injury has not dampened Bifur's intellect but perhaps heightened his aggression just a bit. I love what the TORn staff have said about him. I quite like Bifur, and I hope Mr. Kircher gets a lot of screen time. :).

Nori > He definitely looks out there. Could be very, very dangerous and not one to trust (if one goes by the official information of his illegal activities). Or he could just look intimating and be an absolute boob. He already stands out. I'm looking forward to Jed running with that ball and making quite an an impact. And, no, not with that staff/club thing…ouch. Nori wins most unique and crazy dwarf design. And I can't resist a dwarf whose named after a type of seaweed. Correct me if I'm wrong, please…but I immediately think of seaweed and the sea (perhaps that's the truth behind the star-shaped coffee?).

Balin > looks exactly like the kindly, ancient yet regal dwarf I pictured him as. I can instantly see why Bilbo would be comfortable around him. And I look forward to any confrontations he might have with the younger Thorin.

Bofur > Mirthful, yet something very menacing about the guy. I like the Steppes comparison and boy I don't envy anyone getting conked by that hammer. I think I'll give him my beer.

Gloin > that's Gimli's pa alright. Fabulous. Can't wait to hear his cranky dialog. I guess mom will be calling him Yosemite Sam too. She 'ruined' Gimli for me… oh well.

Dwalin > I will stay out of the way of this dwarf. Perhaps he purposely shaves his head to show off those tattoos and to look as menacing as he does?

Oin > yep, Gimli's uncle. Very imposing. I look forward to him arguing with Gloin.

Ori > the monk-like dwarf? Sure, why not. I like his shy, scholarly vibe. I can see why his two older brothers are so protective of him. Perhaps, he has some healing abilities or knowledge?

Dori > Love his disapproving glance at Nori. Am curious to see how this trio of brothers interact with each other as well as the company.

Kili > I have no problems with the young buck as a nice looking dwarf. I hope he gets mocked left, right and sideways by the elder dwarves, but I also look forward to him trying to stand his ground and protect Thorin. Hope there isn't the Merry and Pippin aspect attached to Kili and Fili (somehow I see that more with Bombur, Bofur and Bifur). I can see Kili and Fili as very inexperienced, yet gung ho. Hey, they want to impress their elders and earn their place. He could have a very interesting character arc.

Fili > Forgive me, but I get such a Sean Penn Fast Times at Ridgemont High vibe from this young dwarf. "Dudddddeee…watch me slay a couple of goblins, man." I do love his swords. As some have said, he looks like he's a potential trouble-maker. He could really impress me.

Bombur > I do get such a sense of Tweedle-Dee from this character. Bombur was fun in the book, so I hope he'll be as fun on screen. Of all the make ups, his seems the least dwarf-like along with Kili. He seems more like a jolly hobbit to me.

Very, very well done.

Bring on Beorn and Radagast.

Congratulations again for the marvelous reveal. :)


In Reply To


Patty
Immortal


Jul 17 2011, 6:01pm

Post #80 of 401 (6420 views)
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Orcrist--another fine work of art! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West





Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 6:07pm

Post #81 of 401 (6435 views)
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That's an interesting question, because... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it could explain the axe in Bifur's skull, too. You wouldn't expect him to be walking around with it still in his head years after the injury; and he is, after all, a miner. So maybe he gets that head wound in the Battle of Five Armies, eh?


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 6:07pm

Post #82 of 401 (6553 views)
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One more reason I wish they had made TH before LotR [In reply to] Can't Post

Because we only had one major Dwarf in LotR, now everybody thinks

dwarf = Gimli = dwarf

Like a whole race made by the Vala of creativity and handicraft must all look like clones with identical genes. Tongue







But once again, I'm biased here because I actually dislike the Gimli look.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 6:08pm

Post #83 of 401 (6461 views)
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And the runes on the guard spell "ORKHRIST". [In reply to] Can't Post

With the "KH" being one character.

It's delightful, what one discovers in high res photos! Smile


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




LoremIpsum
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 6:12pm

Post #84 of 401 (6388 views)
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Freaking cool [In reply to] Can't Post

now that's Thorin Cool, and while he might not look very old he definitely is fierce and noble and the comparisons to Bernard Hill's Theoden are spot on I think.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:12pm

Post #85 of 401 (6366 views)
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Nonsense on Galadriel [In reply to] Can't Post

Cate Blanchett has an extraordinary classic beauty that is missing amongst most leading ladies of Hollywood these days. I never heard anyone say that she was not "pretty" enough (though pretty is the wrong word - Galadriel should be beautiful and dignified, not 'pretty.')

Were there people here concerned about her looks?


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 6:13pm

Post #86 of 401 (6350 views)
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I dont see it either [In reply to] Can't Post

Jack Sparrow? I guess if you want to see Jack Sparrow, you could convice yourself to, but only if you are looking for it. The same for Khal Drogo, Klingons, and the rest. Does Jack Sparrow look like Khal Drogo? They both have long hair and a beard, other than that, no, they don't look alike.

If someone showed me this photo and I didn't already know it was Armitage, I wouldn't have guessed it was him.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:13pm

Post #87 of 401 (6500 views)
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No prosthetics needed... [In reply to] Can't Post

...just a bit more beard. Since when did a beard automatically impinge on "hotness?"


ilovekili
Registered User

Jul 17 2011, 6:14pm

Post #88 of 401 (6380 views)
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his voice...... [In reply to] Can't Post

Richard Armitage is going to be awesome!!!! His voice alone qualifies him for the part.
For those of you not familiar with his voice, check it out.

‪North and South - Proposal Scene‬‏ - YouTube

You will not be disappointed <3


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 6:15pm

Post #89 of 401 (6370 views)
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Orcrist [In reply to] Can't Post

Hehe.. well it says "Orcrist" pretty clearly in Cirth on the crossguard of the hilt... I always wondered why Gandalf couldn't read that for himself Tongue

Hard to see the runes on the blade, but I imagine they've worked up a whole inscription like they did for Glamdring, since that is Orcrist's mate. I forget what Glamdring looks like in LotR: Does this sword resemble it as well as Sting?

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 6:16pm

Post #90 of 401 (6315 views)
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Mr. Eruvande thinks he looks like a Klingon. [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsure

Yeah, he's NARF. It's gonna be a long year and a half at the Eruvande house. Tongue



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 6:16pm

Post #91 of 401 (6418 views)
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Gimli was not the only dwarf in LotR [In reply to] Can't Post

He was the only prominent one, but he is not the be-all and end-all of dwarvishness. What is the cinematic be-all and end-all of dwarvishness are the proportions and 'template' laid out by those dwarves. Think of it as a dwarven 'vitruvian man'- the mathematically worked out proportions that humans subscribe to. Humans, however distinctive they are from one another subscribe to the same proportional template- we don't grow to have the proportions of wading birds for instance with long thin legs, a rounded body and then usually a long neck. We don't even share the same proportions with our nearest evolutionary cousins- chimpanzees and other great apes. Tolkien doesn't really have evolution in his world but it is safe to assume that dwarves, not only being a separate 'race' but also having a wholly different maker to elves and men, have a significantly different and unique set of proportions. It works in the books, it worked in the films. At the very least (even if i liked the new dwarves) it would still be a stylistic inconsistency, just like if you suddenly decided that elves had to have inhumanly long necks and spindly arms. I'd resist that just as much as i've resisted the decision to make dwarves more human than the existing examples.

So yes, light hearted though your post is, don't take the mick out of people who disagree with you, particularly when they have solid grounds for doing so.

Dr Death


Alientraveller
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 6:17pm

Post #92 of 401 (6286 views)
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Not just Gimli [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Because we only had one major Dwarf in LotR, now everybody thinks dwarf = Gimli = dwarf


It wasn't just Gimli, Weta made all the Dwarves look like squashed humanoid creatures in LOTR. As someone who came into Tolkien via PJ, it's going to be difficult ignoring my image of all the Dwarves as talking beards. That's why Oin and Gloin are my favourites at the moment.

But on topic, Thorin looks really cool. I just know Armitage is going to deliver. I love his armour and Orcrist is incredibly beautiful, it may become my favourite Middle-earth sword.


Elfhelm
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 6:17pm

Post #93 of 401 (6426 views)
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Precisely in the high-res pic (zoomed to full inside the browser window) those doesn't look like reflections... so I'm still not quite convinced. =) n/t [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
Did anyone notice he seems to have diamonds or something embedded onto his lower front teeth?



Initially I thought that he has something on his teeth too, but they are too white and they reflect the lights from the studio where the photo was taken Laugh

Just click and see the bigger version of the picture and you will see what I mean :)



sushiking
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 6:20pm

Post #94 of 401 (6424 views)
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GUYS, Guys, Guys, guys... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think i need to change my pants for this one xP


namarie
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 6:21pm

Post #95 of 401 (6315 views)
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You made me double-check again [In reply to] Can't Post

but all I see is light reflection :)


There is always hope


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 6:22pm

Post #96 of 401 (6342 views)
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It's not meant to disparage him particularly [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just passing comment. I think it's the emphasis on the eyes- kind of reminds me of the poster from the first Pirates film. Anyway, the Khal Drogo comment (which i think i was the first to make actually- go me Tongue) was based on the blurry Empire pics which everyone kept reassuring the cynics were not something worth judging the look on. Now we have the proper high def pics, i'm reassessing the likeness.

Dr Death


willowing
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 6:24pm

Post #97 of 401 (6275 views)
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Thorin Oakenshield... [In reply to] Can't Post

Congratulations for the honour of revealing this great leader. You can see the passion and fire in his eyes and I lwould not like to cross swords with him. If you put Thorin in the middle of the pack you will have your own interpretation of the Last Supper.

Laugh


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:25pm

Post #98 of 401 (6312 views)
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Are those dwarven runes... [In reply to] Can't Post

...on Orcrist?


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 6:27pm

Post #99 of 401 (6352 views)
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It's the *length* of the beard that impinges on hotness ;-P [In reply to] Can't Post

See? This really is the preferred length. Any longer, and it just looks...untidy. Wink


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 6:30pm

Post #100 of 401 (6268 views)
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Welcome to the discussion boards ByThorinsBeard [In reply to] Can't Post

Great nick name and wonderful thoughts for a first post. I hope to see you around more as the excitement continues. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 6:34pm

Post #101 of 401 (6251 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Cate is breathtaking. And I would add that Liv Tyler possesses the same sort of beauty.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 6:35pm

Post #102 of 401 (6258 views)
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They are Elvish. [In reply to] Can't Post

They are the Angerthas Daeron, developed from the Certhas Daeron; Daeron was the minstrel and chief loremaster of Thingol.

The Dwarves used a variation for their own Angerthas Moria. The big clue in these runes: the one which looks like a "K" was used by the Elves for "R", whereas the Dwarves used it for "J".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 17 2011, 6:39pm

Post #103 of 401 (6262 views)
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Not quite the way I've imagined Thorin... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I must say that I'm very impressed. The intensity and ferocity of the gaze are striking, and despite the short beard there is still something very much quintessentially dwarvish about him. There's also a sense of haggardness, with the sunken eyes and the bristly moustache that's quite appropriate. I do wish he had a longer beard and more grey in his hair, but all in all consider me sold.

Oh, and Orcrist is very cool.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jul 17 2011, 6:42pm)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:41pm

Post #104 of 401 (6280 views)
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Anyone notice the scabbard on his back? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was thinking it would be since Orcrist is soooo huge for him. Looks like I was right!

And Armitage looks perfect!

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 6:41pm

Post #105 of 401 (6204 views)
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Sweeeeeet! [In reply to] Can't Post

What happened? I was only gone for a few hours picking blueberries. I like him. Thorin looks pretty cool to me. It's about time for a TORn exclusive!

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.

(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Jul 17 2011, 6:41pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:44pm

Post #106 of 401 (6307 views)
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Untidy [In reply to] Can't Post

Is an attractive look to many women, I believe. A bit of roughness and untidiness is not always to be frowned upon. Unless, of course, we are catering to the teenaged set...


xy
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:46pm

Post #107 of 401 (6184 views)
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Cool Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

Looking a bit younger than I imagined but they definitely got the pride & determination look right. The best of the lot, next to Balin and Gloin !

Others are nice, minus the missing beard on one or two Dwarves.

And I predict Kili will be the "Legolas" of LOTR - the heart throb actor.


(This post was edited by xy on Jul 17 2011, 6:50pm)


Snulle
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 6:47pm

Post #108 of 401 (6202 views)
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Nice! [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually thought it was the edge of a shield first but of course it is the scabbard!
Once again Orcrist is one of the finest swords I've ever seen in any movies including the Atlantean sword of Conan which I hold as one of the best sword designs ever made.


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 6:50pm

Post #109 of 401 (6226 views)
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Beat me to it [In reply to] Can't Post

Hehe... They got the mode right Laugh. I still wonder if the inscription shouldn't be in Tengwar, though, since Tolkien tells us the early Cirth were primarily Sindarin, and that they were adapted for non-Sindarin sounds by the Noldor of Eregion. Seems to me the Tengwar would have been more used by Turgon and the isolationists in Gondolin, even for inscriptions.

Geek button to off, now.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.

(This post was edited by Phibbus on Jul 17 2011, 6:51pm)


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 6:51pm

Post #110 of 401 (6169 views)
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Teeth [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't look like his own teeth. So we've got fake nose, forehead, brows, teeth.. The only thing that says Armitage are the piercing eyes.


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 6:58pm

Post #111 of 401 (6067 views)
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thank you Altiara [In reply to] Can't Post

I look forward to being here, university and job notwithstanding.

And I look forward to reading so many more of the great posts here. May contribute a few too.

My thanks for the welcome and again, congratulations on THE reveal.

> re: Thorin's teeth > the glint of the Arkenstone perhaps?


Ravenry
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 7:07pm

Post #112 of 401 (6048 views)
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teeth [In reply to] Can't Post

Suspect they are. he had the whole lot veneered sometime in 2006. Just before he did The Impressionists. before that he had classic grew up in the 1970's British teeth.

Yes I know I'm anal knowing that. Crazy


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 7:08pm

Post #113 of 401 (6119 views)
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LOL, [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure those are HIS teeth

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 7:11pm

Post #114 of 401 (6178 views)
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Surely you're not implying that I'm a teenager? ;-P [In reply to] Can't Post

I just like my men...pretty. Wink


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 7:11pm

Post #115 of 401 (6080 views)
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Funny [In reply to] Can't Post

So you're telling us he had already saved them the trouble of creating prosthetic teeth. I wonder if this was a pro in favor of his ultimate casting... budget considerations and all that Tongue

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Ermanatar
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 7:17pm

Post #116 of 401 (6150 views)
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Oops!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I just crapped my pants... This has to be the best representation of a Thorin Oakenshield I have ever seen. GREAT JOB, PETER JACKSON!!!! BRAVO!!! BRAVO!!!

Play Lord of the Rings Online!!! Find me, Ithronatar, on the Silverlode server!!!


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 7:24pm

Post #117 of 401 (6092 views)
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human, all too human... [In reply to] Can't Post

Like Fili and Kili, he looks just like a human in terms of proportions. Would have preferred a stockier build and a proper beard. Also, Thorin is supposed to be 17 years older than Balin, which is hard to believe from these photos.


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 7:29pm

Post #118 of 401 (6016 views)
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I don't think it's a goatee [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Love the Padawan braid, but I don't care for the goatee. Apparently the nobility doesn't care for beards, young or old… I'd have preferred a full, if short, beard to the goatee, but it looks good on Armitage and is at least consistent for the family group.


If you look closely his beard goes all the way around his jaw. But yes, it is a bit short.


fifa15m
Registered User

Jul 17 2011, 7:30pm

Post #119 of 401 (6257 views)
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Can we discuss the hobbit without these types of comments... [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 7:31pm

Post #120 of 401 (6111 views)
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I´m quite surprised in a positive way... [In reply to] Can't Post

Althought he looks a little too young and human I no longer see Richard Armitage´s face in there, at least no in this picture. The sword has wonderful design.

Congratulations to TORn for this exclusive!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 7:33pm

Post #121 of 401 (6041 views)
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Yes, I've heard people say she isn't pretty enough [In reply to] Can't Post

As for me, I think Cate is *gorgeous*. She is as beautiful as a human female can be asked to be.

However, she isn't as pretty as Galadriel is in my imagination. No woman is. Because the Eldarin beauty is unreacheable to us.

Just like Lúthien can't be played by any mortal woman. Her overwhelming beauty must forever remain in the realm of our imagination.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 7:35pm

Post #122 of 401 (5977 views)
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Haaaaahahahaha! Thanks, perfect! :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 7:35pm

Post #123 of 401 (6096 views)
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Welcome fifa! [In reply to] Can't Post

As long as comments are within the Terms of Service guidelines, anyone's comments are welcome here. I believe the comment was meant as a bit of light humor and wasn't meant to offend. Smile

Terms of Service (on the Welcome board)


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Daisy Gold
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 7:37pm

Post #124 of 401 (6045 views)
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Thorin looks so stunning! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin looks amazing. Though he is younger than what I have always thought in my head he has the necessary characteristics. He is fierce, charismatic and kingly. I can’t wait to see him in action.Cool Heart


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 7:38pm

Post #125 of 401 (6109 views)
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What's wrong with it? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does discussing the Hobbit mean I have to forgoe a sense of humour? Jeez!


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 7:43pm

Post #126 of 401 (6295 views)
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We're not starting this argument again, are we? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't you just admit the other day that Tolkien never said Thorin was ancient?

In my view, he looks like a dwarf, not an elf, and he looks like he's been around the block a few times.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Radagast_the_Brown
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 7:45pm

Post #127 of 401 (6169 views)
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Thorin looks fine [In reply to] Can't Post

suitably commanding and imposing, though I would have liked a fuller beard, but my lord... That sword!!! Just beautiful.

All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you...


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 7:45pm

Post #128 of 401 (6237 views)
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Thorin looks OLDER than I thought they would make him, LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

I expected the streaks of grey, but they've made Armitage look at least 50 - perhaps more - and I didn't recognise him when I first saw the photo. It was the intensity of his expression that finally gave him away. This is a Good Thing! He has wanted to be recognised for his acting and not his good looks for a long time. I can't wait to see him in action either, Daisy!


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 17 2011, 7:50pm

Post #129 of 401 (6360 views)
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You guys missed your golden opportunity! [In reply to] Can't Post

The title of this thread should have been "I am Thorin, son of Thrain, son of Thror, King under the Mountain. I have returned". Cool


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 17 2011, 7:51pm

Post #130 of 401 (6234 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been surprised how many people say he looks young - I think he looks much older than I expected (and I'm older than he is, so this isn't the perspective of innocent youth! )


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 7:54pm

Post #131 of 401 (6177 views)
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Proportions [In reply to] Can't Post

Dr.Death, your very articulate, and your posts are often entertaining to read, but I have to say I think your being overly cynical.

stylistic inconsistencies, proportional issues, templates....it just seems like your getting hung up on things, solid grounds or not.

I hope your enjoying these glimpses into the movie as much as the rest of us.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 7:55pm

Post #132 of 401 (6167 views)
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Basically, I wanted to provoke you. [In reply to] Can't Post

You make such excellent posts that are interesting to read, precisely because you bother to give clear arguments and reasoning.

I still claim Gimli is de facto the only Dwarf in LotR. But more important than that is that I'm somewhat bothered by people guarding the movie!Gimli box like a Smaug guarding the Arkenstone. Especially when supporting movie!Gimli gets mixed with supporting Tolkien. I think I support Tolkien, and because of that I'm very much against the way the Dwarves and especially the Elves look in PJ's movies. I don't say the people who imagine the Dwarves to look like Gimli are wrong, I say I feel like I'm considered unTolkienian because I imagine them otherway. And that sometimes makes me very defensive.

There has been a lot of talk about "purists" here, and that "purists like the Gimli look". Well, I'm a fanatic Tolkien fan and support loyalty to the original texts, but that does NOT mean I'd automatically support the Gimli look.

And all of this is made even more frustrating by the fact that Tolkien never described his characters or races in detail, and indeed it is a big part of his style to let the reader use his or her own imagination. The very general notions about Dwarves being short and strong and bearded don't mean we could examine the shape of their skull or their noses, or what kind of ears or fingers they have. We can imagine them in our mind, but we can't say "I'm more right than you are, here let me hit you on the head wth my copy of the Silmarillion. You heretic."








And the notion about Aulë actually wasn't made tongue-in-cheek. I really do think that someone like him would make a race with every Father and their spouses looking very original and imaginative.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 7:57pm

Post #133 of 401 (6442 views)
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You do realize you're a newbie on a board with 6724 registered users? [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't get to dictate who talks about what. None of us do. But if you don't like a particular subthread, you have every right to ignore it.

On the other hand, if by any chance you're complaining because you think we're being homophobic, you're wrong. I am an admin here, and I am also an out lesbian. TORN does not tolerate any sort of prejudice.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 8:09pm

Post #134 of 401 (6056 views)
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I got into Tolkien via PJ too :) [In reply to] Can't Post

But only the first few times I read LotR I imagined everything looking like in the movies, and after that my mind started to wander off into a whole another direction, more inspired by actual Medieval sources and the nature of the British Islands.

That being said, I still wholly enjoy the movies, love love LOVE the designs and adore the crew behind them. Those people are my heroes. Heart

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


fifa15m
Registered User

Jul 17 2011, 8:10pm

Post #135 of 401 (6171 views)
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Yes, I do realize that. (Thanks for the welcome Altaira!) [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe that you’re reading too deeply into my comment. I do not mean to engage in any discussion concerning that issue. I just believe that humor used in a public forum should be tasteful. just my opinion!

Anyway, glad to be part of the 6724 users here to discuss, anticipate, and enjoy the Hobbit. :)


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 8:13pm

Post #136 of 401 (6103 views)
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It's cool [In reply to] Can't Post

My quip was meant to be neither tasteful nor tasteless...just an opinion, though I do think that RA is a handsome man!


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 8:21pm

Post #137 of 401 (6032 views)
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Jewelry [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, and in the chance the people responsible for the merchandise are reading. I love that square ring with the dwarven runes. That looks great!!!



Annael
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 8:22pm

Post #138 of 401 (6111 views)
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nope [In reply to] Can't Post

TORn tradition encourages such fervent expressions of admiration for beauty, whatever form it takes.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 8:25pm

Post #139 of 401 (6084 views)
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+1! [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, wait, this isn't Google+. Blush



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


painjoiker
Grey Havens

Jul 17 2011, 8:26pm

Post #140 of 401 (6027 views)
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I've never imagined Thorin any older than that picture... [In reply to] Can't Post

If he was much older it would not look good if he was fighting like a crazy madman...
I have problems imagining Balin fighting:P


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 8:36pm

Post #141 of 401 (6052 views)
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TORn is honoured, yes, but why 'humbled'? [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree it's absolutely great, marvellous, exhilarating, etc. that the most important Dwarf was revealed to us first but, and I quote:

Today, TheOneRing.net is both honored and humbled to be given the worldwide exclusive reveal of Thorin Oakenshield! (and Orcrist, the Goblin-cleaver!)
-----

you got me so confused that I had to look up the verb 'to humble' in my Oxford Thesaurus of English in order to make sure I hadn't lost my marbles yet. I'm not going to humble the author of this post by copying out all the 38 definitions/synonyms the Thesaurus offers but would humbly beg to differ with your use of this word --- unless its meaning has officially morphed into its complete opposite in the past seven years Wink.

And before anyone starts accusing me of being an obnoxious know-it-all (again), please remember there are quite a number of TORn members whose native tongue isn't English, who won't question what they read here, and who'll end up learning all kinds of weird stuff they might even (heaven forbid) use in term papers, exams, and so on, in all innocence.

Sorry, but I really needed to say that!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 8:36pm

Post #142 of 401 (6052 views)
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*mods up!* [In reply to] Can't Post

Though I am not sure one becomes gay or lesbian other than at birth.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 8:53pm

Post #143 of 401 (5957 views)
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No supprises [In reply to] Can't Post

They pretty much telegraphed their punch. I did notice a few gray hair. Hay maybe he has a wide white stripe down the back.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Vangalad
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 8:55pm

Post #144 of 401 (5922 views)
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Congrats to TORN and what a lordly reveal! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin has such a strong yet gripping appearance that just brings the conclusion these movies are gonna rock!


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Symbelmine
Rohan


Jul 17 2011, 8:55pm

Post #145 of 401 (6016 views)
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Richard Armitage [In reply to] Can't Post

is my fav actor. I can't wait to see him as Thorin.
Those photos are truly awesome.
Congrats TORN.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 17 2011, 8:59pm

Post #146 of 401 (5941 views)
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Lol, kiwifan! [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad you got that off your chest! LaughSmile

As far as the word humbled goes, I looked up a few definitions myself and think the context it was used in here coincides best with the following definitions:


"Of modest pretensions or dimensions."

"Marked by modesty in behavior, attitude, or spirit; not arrogant or prideful"

"
Showing deferential respect"


You must admit, we're in some impressive company compared to the other websites that were part of the reveal: TIME, MSN, IGN and Yahoo! Movies to name a few. Needless to say, we have a lot of respect for those sites and are overjoyed that a fan site got the final, big reveal, and that we are so prominent on the radar of Warner Bros, PJ and crew. it wouldn't do for us to stick our tongues out and say: "neener, neeener, we're better than you!" So, yes we are a bit modest in the company of these giants that we so admire, and are happy to show them the respect they are due by using the word, "humbled." I think it's a perfect fit. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Rufus
Bree

Jul 17 2011, 9:00pm

Post #147 of 401 (5926 views)
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I agree he does look older [In reply to] Can't Post

Like others if I did know this was Armitage then I wouldn't have recognised him. I like the look and he certainly looks far older than his almost 40 year old real self The costume looks good I just wish we could see more of it. The sword is indeed beautiful can't wait to see him use it.


BTW it is interesting that this weekend three images have been posted of Armitage this weekend and he looks completely different in them all.


http://www.richardarmitagenet.com/...ml#ProjectMag-07.jpg

http://www.richardarmitagenet.com/...html#Interview02.jpg

Thanks to RA net for the pictures


(This post was edited by Rufus on Jul 17 2011, 9:05pm)


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 9:04pm

Post #148 of 401 (5904 views)
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Honoured and humbled [In reply to] Can't Post

Its usage here is not the first time I've heard that phrase, which is quite an old one. The greeting "Your humble servant" conveys the same feeling of courtesy. In fact "honoured and humbled" is often used in formal situations, to acknowledge an honour that has been granted. I think it was a very appropriate usage in this situation by TORn, even if it is considered unusual as it is fairly archaic and possibly not used outside the UK. Definitions for individual words in a dictionary often do not convey the intended meaning of a total phrase.


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 9:04pm

Post #149 of 401 (5892 views)
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Too much maitenance [In reply to] Can't Post

Keeping a beard that short, and trimmed around the jaw? Every Fall, I start out with a goatee, and by Springtime, I have a full blown ZZ Top going.


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 17 2011, 9:10pm

Post #150 of 401 (5894 views)
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Fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he looks wonderful, and I know he has the skills and gravitas combined with a love of Tolkien to really do justice to this role.

Looking forward to seeing him onscreen.


arphen
The Shire


Jul 17 2011, 9:13pm

Post #151 of 401 (6320 views)
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I'm in the "too human" camp. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why do only a few of them look like the dwarves from Lord of the Rings? I was expecting appearances very similar to what is seen in the linked image below, and what we're seeing diverges greatly from what was earlier given:

[url=http://lotr.wikia.com/index.php?title=Dwarves&image=SpecialMakeupFX-18-jpg]

In general, their facial and body structures are too human - why aren't we seeing the telltale dwarven stoutness that was evident in Gimli and the dwarves at the Council? As for the less-altered facial structures, maybe it's meant for viewers to tell them apart easily, but still. I love the amount of unique character we see for each of these thirteen dwarves, but I think they parted ways with continuity in order to eagerly shake hands with character and personality. Frankly, it seems to me that each dwarf was made to be a main character, and I can't see how that will be possible.

So now for a scary question: what will Dain and his army look like? I'm afraid continuity will again be at stake.

The beards are my main displeasure. They simply don't appear dwarven (not necessarily according to Tolkien, but according to the previous movie rendition)...

In general, Óin and Glóin look fantastic, followed by Bifur, and Balin and Dwalin aren't terrible.

On a uniformly positive note, I love the weapons (and the ladle)!

Mín Brannon cuia!

(This post was edited by arphen on Jul 17 2011, 9:19pm)


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 9:15pm

Post #152 of 401 (6799 views)
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Different looks [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, he looks like a completely different person in all the shots. The last interview shot with the more relaxed look (and the same shirt he wore at the Powhiri ceremony - apparently he likes his Spooks wardrobe!) is the only shot where he looks like himself.


(This post was edited by lindorian on Jul 17 2011, 9:16pm)


Morthoron
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 9:25pm

Post #153 of 401 (6323 views)
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Thorin looks like a Klingon. [In reply to] Can't Post

And sorry, he's far too youthful in comparison to the descriptions in the book.

I refer you to a host of artistic conceptions of Thorin (including John Howe):

http://tolkiengateway.net/...:Images_of_Thorin_II

Please visit my new blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 9:26pm

Post #154 of 401 (6245 views)
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I have a hunch... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin, Fili and Kili have less or no prosthetics for one reason, they need to be able to show a lot of emotion on their faces, and wouldn't be able to otherwise.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:27pm

Post #155 of 401 (6230 views)
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Dain's army [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope it's much like the 13 we see already. I hope we see a mixture of different looking dwarves as well as ones that look like Gimli, Oin, and Gloin.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:32pm

Post #156 of 401 (6232 views)
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John Howe's [In reply to] Can't Post

Lol, I always thought it looked like RA was in mind when I saw it. Grandted, it's definitely older looking the RA but the features are similar. None of the other ones really capture who he is though. They just capture the age. You don't see a haunted, obsessed, and dark figure behind any of them except for Howe's - and the actual pic of RA as Thorin. So I think the pic of RA captures Thorin MUCH MORE BETTERER than any of the other drawings I've seen.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:36pm

Post #157 of 401 (6068 views)
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I don't understand [In reply to] Can't Post

"Being humbled" is not archaic language use at all, and is certainly used outside the UK (in the US, for example.) It is 'humbling' to be chosen to reveal the key dwarven character, particularly since the last reveal of Balin and Dwalin was offered to TIME magazine! It is also appropriately 'Tolkienian' if you will, to be humbled by such an honor.

I think TORN did a classy thing.


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 17 2011, 9:39pm

Post #158 of 401 (6191 views)
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How about the "bearded men = ugly" prejudice? [In reply to] Can't Post

Can we please drop that? Yes, I notice the smileys here and there. It still irks me. How about I go around saying all women should shave their you-know-what or else they aren't attractive, in every other topic?


Quote
That sounds promising. Does this mean they'll be retaining Tolkien's snakelike design instead of converting Smaug into the stereotypical 'winged tyrannosaurus' seen in most dragon films?

What movies have you been watching, Flagg? Wink
Flying dinosaurs, yes, but I can't recall any that looked like a tyrannosaurus.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:41pm

Post #159 of 401 (6187 views)
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Honestly... [In reply to] Can't Post

Those dwarves look totally ridiculous. Awfully bloated, andover-prostheticized,. I would NOT have chosen a lightly-graying, short-bearded interpretation of Thorin, but I would have been bitterly disappointed if the dwarves (and Thorin) looked like those.

If I had my way, the dwarves would fit both the Balin and Dwalin body and facial types. I would lose the "big-bellied, fat based, no-necked Gimli" look, as they have with Dwalin, while adding a more substantial beard to all of them.

But PJ has given us a decent lot. Barring Kili, IMO.

-GM


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Jul 17 2011, 9:50pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:45pm

Post #160 of 401 (6105 views)
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Balin and Dwalin [In reply to] Can't Post

Seem to fit that bill as well, though they have prosthetic noses and some forehead. My guess is that Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Bofur, Fili, Kili and perhaps Dori will have the greatest amount of screen time.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 9:46pm

Post #161 of 401 (6117 views)
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IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin and Dwalin look closer to Tolkien's vision of dwarves than Gloin and Oin, IMO.


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 17 2011, 9:49pm

Post #162 of 401 (6019 views)
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Completely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I always thought that the dwarves in LOTR looked like a bunch of guys with too much latex stuck on their faces. I know I'll probably be shot down in falmes for saying this but much as I liked Gimli as a character it was despite his make-up not because of it! It was unconvincing in the same way that they use too much latex when they try to make actors look old in movies to show the passage of time.

I would far rather have these versions where the actors are able to emote through their make-up. Their faces will be more mobile and there will be a greater degree of subtlety- IMO which is just as valid as the' Shouty' (I watch a lot of Horrible Histories!) people.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 9:55pm

Post #163 of 401 (6040 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin & Dwalin are the ones who please my tastes the best. Short & strong, but not overly fat & grotesque.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 9:59pm

Post #164 of 401 (6130 views)
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Hope this link works... [In reply to] Can't Post

Try here?? http://scrapbook.theonering.net/...ts/mordor/view/11531


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 17 2011, 10:00pm

Post #165 of 401 (5989 views)
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I'm just being observant, I'm not complaining ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 17 2011, 10:01pm

Post #166 of 401 (6148 views)
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They have certainly varied the 'dwarf look' [In reply to] Can't Post

... a lot more than they did in LotR but I think it was essential to establish some different characters.

It's possible that the sheer weight of prosthetics played a part in it too. Remember the allergy problems John Rhys-Davies had; perhaps they thought it was wise to go a bit easier on the dwarves this time to make it a more comfortable experience or them - as well as making it easier for them to show emotion.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 17 2011, 11:57pm

Post #167 of 401 (6060 views)
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Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin looks a lot more bada** than I thought he would!...and older too!

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 12:01am

Post #168 of 401 (6024 views)
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Wrong presumption on my part [In reply to] Can't Post

As the original poster, who I assumed had English as their primary language, found the use of the phrase 'honoured and humbled' difficult to interpret, I thought that was because the phrase was an uncommon one outside the UK. I am happy to find that the phrase is more widely used than I'd realised and like you, think PJ shown TORn tremendous honour by this reveal. And that their response was entirely appropriate and gracious.


(This post was edited by bookgirl13 on Jul 18 2011, 12:02am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 12:05am

Post #169 of 401 (6071 views)
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looks good [In reply to] Can't Post

they're all perfect dwarves, even if some of their heads look abit human they're still all going to be short like dwarves


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:07am

Post #170 of 401 (6062 views)
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To use the modern phrase... [In reply to] Can't Post

"We're not worthy!"

After releasing photos via some of the major media outlets in the world, the biggest reveal goes to a fansite. "Woohoo!" and also "Wow...they really picked us?!?!"

When one is granted a great honor, among giants of a particular category (normally TORN wouldn't be mentioned next to TIME!), it's common to feel both flattered by the attention and also to feel unusually aware of one's limitations or shortcomings at the same time. That's what the phrase is commonly used to convey.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 12:12am

Post #171 of 401 (6055 views)
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Can't wait to see Thorin flip out of Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

upon finding out what th hobbit did with the Arkenstone, that scene is going to be INTENSE


arphen
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 12:17am

Post #172 of 401 (5974 views)
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Fair enough! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
If I had my way, the dwarves would fit both the Balin and Dwalin body and facial types. I would lose the "big-bellied, fat based, no-necked Gimli" look, as they have with Dwalin, while adding a more substantial beard to all of them.

But PJ has given us a decent lot. Barring Kili, IMO.



Balin and Dwalin look closer to Tolkien's vision of dwarves than Gloin and Oin, IMO.


Again, my argument is more for the sake of continuity (and against the lack of “substantial beards”!), but what you said there are statements with which I can verily agree.

But even now that we’ve settled that, I’ll still lament the beards!

Brannon nín cuia


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 12:23am

Post #173 of 401 (5956 views)
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Likewise. [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed 100%. I would almost like PJ to edit out Gimli with a Balin or Dwalin-esque character for the uber-special-massively-improved editions in 2020. Smile


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 12:41am

Post #174 of 401 (5945 views)
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Suggestion: The Combined Wallpaper... [In reply to] Can't Post

of Thorin with the dwarves in the background seems to cut off part of Bombur on the left, and alot of Kili on the right, plus a good part of Thorin's left arm (right side of image) was also trimmed. Balin and Dwalin are partially obscured also. If the full width of Thorin's left arm is included then Balin could be moved to the right side of the image adjacent to Dwalin, plus none of the dwarves would need to be partially obscured. The image would also be better balanced with six dwarves on each side of Thorin. Are there any Photoshop "wizards" out there willing to tweak this group picture? Big thanks!!

btw- Thorin looks intense! Looking forward to eventually seeing Thror, Thrain and especially Dain Ironfoot!


(This post was edited by Bladerunner on Jul 18 2011, 12:50am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:46am

Post #175 of 401 (6070 views)
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Finally getting a chance to comment.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin looks just how I expected him to look when they announced RA would be playing him, which is not at all how I envisioned the Thorin from the book. But since I never expected the Hobbit movie to look like my mental movie, I'm not particularly disturbed by that. My only complaint is that the beard is too short. Other than that, I'm happy. I think I'll like him, probably more than I like BookThorin (which isn't much). I really want a full-length shot so I can see the rest of the costume and the rest of Orcrist. Pretty please?

I've been thinking what an amazing thing the production has done here. A few months ago, the great question was "How is PJ going to deal with a mob of dwarves?" We were discussing whether he'd cut some, or cast some female, or how on earth could he possibly differentiate between 13 dwarves and not confuse the audience. Now one of the major complaints is that they're too different. That's an impressive turnaround to make. It seems PJ's greatest opposition was created by himself in having all his LOTR dwarves look so similar. What most people are finding jarring is the difference between these dwarves and his previous dwarves. But we certainly won't be having much trouble telling them apart on screen. (Remembering their names is another matter!) The design and costume team deserve some serious kudos for pulling this off.

Though I, like many others, would have preferred more beard on several of them, you have to admit - they are all bearded. You can't mistake them for hobbits, or Elves (well, Kili aside...) and once we get the scale established with a few Gandalf scenes, I don't think human comparisons will be a big deal either.

Overall, I'm impressed and looking forward to these movies more than ever.

Oh, and major congrats to TORN on the scoop! So cool!


Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jul 18 2011, 12:46am)


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:50am

Post #176 of 401 (6569 views)
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I guess we have different ideas of what's tasteful, then, but sorry if I bit your head off ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Welcome to TORN. I'm not usually this grumpy. Wink


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 12:54am

Post #177 of 401 (6607 views)
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I couldn't resist a roto test. [In reply to] Can't Post



I sure hope they make these swords glow like they're supposed to.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Hooded Justice
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 12:55am

Post #178 of 401 (6573 views)
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Overdressed dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice how they've revealed the dwarves to us in twos and threes - exactly as Gandalf presented them to Beorn.

I would have to say that they don't match how I personally picture them (Tolkien wrote a children's story about fairytale characters- not about a hardcore Goth rock group).

Thorin looks exactly like a Klingon to me.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 18 2011, 12:58am

Post #179 of 401 (6520 views)
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*Mods Up!* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 18 2011, 1:04am

Post #180 of 401 (6535 views)
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Oh! In all my excitement... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I forgot to congratulate TORn for getting this awesome exclusive! You guys deserve it!

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 1:05am

Post #181 of 401 (6516 views)
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Now this [In reply to] Can't Post

is the best description I've yet seen of Thorin. :D

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 1:07am

Post #182 of 401 (6490 views)
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*awards dernwyn double geek points* [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 1:16am

Post #183 of 401 (6510 views)
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Klingon... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thorin looks exactly like a Klingon to me.

Hehe, people keep commenting the Klingon resemblance. I compared Thorin to Worf a few threads ago, here, with (with some other barbarous aliens, ensuing,) and Taekotemple replied...


Quote
Yay Worf!
So does that mean Thorin uses a Bat'leth, eats Gagh, and drinks prune juice? It is the warrior's drink after all!


Well, somebody has finally gone to the trouble to prove that, apparently, he does...



I'm not quite sure whom to credit with this dandy piece of work, since it was linked out of context on another site.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


GwyraWhitfoot
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 1:29am

Post #184 of 401 (6463 views)
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I agree.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Though we might think the actors do not look the part right now, I have a feeling that we will think differently after seeing their performances.

or at least lets hope so Tongue


LordElrond
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 1:39am

Post #185 of 401 (6431 views)
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he looks amazing [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't even mind that he looks alot younger than I thought he should be now. Who would have decided that theonering.net gets this first? Peter Jackson himself?


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 1:41am

Post #186 of 401 (6533 views)
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That's an interesting point! [In reply to] Can't Post

Would the Cirth have been deemed more suitable for inscriptions, even though they might have been considered "uncouth" by those living in Gondolin?

But it does specify in the text that there were "runes" on the swords, so it may have been just a matter of the sword-wright's preferred mode of inscription.

(You can turn your "geek button" off? Amazing! Wink)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 1:45am

Post #187 of 401 (6489 views)
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Watch out... [In reply to] Can't Post

below! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




GwyraWhitfoot
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 1:48am

Post #188 of 401 (6498 views)
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Oh yeah I had forgotten that [In reply to] Can't Post

In the films they will look much more like Dwarves because they will be shorter. Recently I've just been seeing Dwarf picture after Dwarf picture (hey not complaining Cool) so I've forgotton about their stature compared to other races...

Seeing the Dwarves next to Gandalf will certainly be shocking Shocked


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 2:17am

Post #189 of 401 (6460 views)
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Nor disappointment. [In reply to] Can't Post

He has the look of a determined leader and should be an excellent movie Thorin. I like what I see, even though it's not the image projected by the book. No problem living with that.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 18 2011, 2:23am

Post #190 of 401 (6452 views)
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But...but...Thorin was a dwarf prince when Smaug attacked Erebor. [In reply to] Can't Post

He was 24....Now he's an old, bitter dwarf.

"As a young Dwarf prince, Thorin witnessed the destruction and terror wrought when a great fire-breathing Dragon attacked the Dwarf Kingdom of Erebor".

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Telerian
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 2:31am

Post #191 of 401 (6469 views)
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Wonderful. [In reply to] Can't Post

Lurker since 2002, and just had to post and say this looks great! Younger than I expected, but wonderful.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 2:35am

Post #192 of 401 (6384 views)
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^ This // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Bergil'sEagle
Registered User


Jul 18 2011, 2:37am

Post #193 of 401 (6501 views)
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Not as bad as I was expecting... [In reply to] Can't Post

Aside from a slight pirate-ish-ness, he doesn't seem to look as young as I was expecting from the earlier images... not my favourite dwarf but not dissappointing like some others.

And Orcrist looks awesome as well!


Groppe
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 2:41am

Post #194 of 401 (6440 views)
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Klingon anyone? [In reply to] Can't Post

Reminiscent of a Klingon? Thorin of house Martok? Cool


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 2:50am

Post #195 of 401 (6455 views)
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You know, I am not certain Dwarves have princes. [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps Scion would be a more appropriate term.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 2:58am

Post #196 of 401 (6444 views)
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A bit more gray would not have hurt. [In reply to] Can't Post

He looks like he will have the right attitude and I know he is a capable actor. I am sure the script will be wonderful and the technical skills of the people involved in the production are world class. I just wish they could acknowledge the character's age with an appropriate appearance. Just a little more gray and perhaps a few of them there battle scars.

The no surprise was based on the Empire photo shoot.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 3:20am

Post #197 of 401 (6354 views)
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I knew it [In reply to] Can't Post

I knew Richard Armitage would be perfect as Thorin and capture everything Thorin is supposed to be. Never had a doubt and there he is, looking amazing and fierce.

I'm so excited about this.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 18 2011, 3:29am

Post #198 of 401 (6483 views)
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Oh...my....Goodness... [In reply to] Can't Post


That's Thorin?

FANTASTIC!!! I can't believe how amazing ALL of these dwarves look! They're all so distinct and identifiable of what kind of personalities they have just from their appearance. Comedic, determined, unprepared, focused, so many personalities! But Thorin is absolutely stunning! They're all here... and I'm blown away.

I'm so thrilled for TORn to be the one to launch this last and most impressive member of the Company!! I can see him going nose-to-nose with Gandalf, challenging the Trolls, dealing with a Hobbit, defiant in front of Thranduil, and claiming his place as King Under the Mountain.

I can't wait for these film. These characters are so many light-years beyond what I hoped for... *tearing* What a treasure... how lucky are we to be here when it's all unfolding!

Thank you, Peter, for never giving up and sharing this unveiling with us! *bows deeply, dazed*

What a ride!!! What a ride...

sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



duats
Grey Havens

Jul 18 2011, 3:36am

Post #199 of 401 (6388 views)
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That's just an urban myth [In reply to] Can't Post

Good actors overcome obstacles. They manage to get their performance through. Heck. JRD was buried under a massive beard and prosthetics, and I was still able to tell what his face was doing, and what shapes his mouth was making. Say what you will about how Gimli was written in the films, but I for one could tell how Gimli was feeling in any particular scene. You could see the anguish in his face in Balin's tomb. And credit to JRD for that. Likewise, Armitage is a great talent. People keep commenting on the intensity of Armitage's eyes - how you can see the fierceness, the steely reserve, and the unyielding determination and fortitude. Those are just from his eyes. You could've thrown a Gimli-sized beard on him, and I have no doubt he would have gotten the job done.

But I'm not even asking for a beard of Gimli's volume. Just something that wouldn't take an average adult male a month to grow, and something that wasn't so darn uninspiring.

I've always felt that beards were a point of pride for the dwarves. In the book, I believe Bilbo says something along the lines of "May your beard never grow thin" (or something to that effect). Bilbo wishes them a lifetime of healthy, thick beards - presumably because healthy, thick beards were important to them. In Thorin's case specifically, Bilbo says to Thorin, "'If you mean you think it is my job to go into the secret passage first, O Thorin Thrain's son Oakenshield, may your beard grow even longer" (Suggesting it was long to begin with). Moreso than thick brows and pudgy noses, beards are one of THE defining attributes of this race (second only to their height). Aragorn even makes a joke of it in TTT, on why all dwarves, men and women, look alike ("It's the beards").

And we have, what? Five/six dwarves with short or no facial hair?

And as I mentioned in another post. Thorin is a dwarf KING. You would think that, out of everyone, he would have a beard fit for one. If I were unfamiliar with the text, and I was asked to point out the king in this group of dwarves, I would easily point to Oin, Gloin, or Balin. The beard doesn't necessarily have to be three feet long. But something for Thorin to take pride in, and to reflect his status amongst his fellow, lower-class companions. A rich, thick beard with beautifully braiding and/or adornments. Instead, we get a plain old beard that I'm about a week shy of having myself. Boring. Just utterly boring.

And I'm ever frustrated by the fact that, had the beard been longer, I actually would have found myself quite content with THIS interpretation of the character. Much like Theoden for me in the LoTR - everything else about this design is great, but the beard kills it. (In case anyone asks what I mean, I hated Theoden's blonde hair, and I hated the goatee).

And I won't even get started on Kili - because that well of complaints has been drained dry. I'm spent.


(This post was edited by duats on Jul 18 2011, 3:43am)


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 3:46am

Post #200 of 401 (6394 views)
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So... [In reply to] Can't Post

They'll have to forgo the "Don't water your beard, father" joke being directed at Thorin (unless his grows a considerable amount on the way to Rivendell,) but I guess they could still throw it at Balin.

While the look does go against the collective consensus of almost 75 years of Tolkien illustration, it doesn't quite rub me the wrong way in the same way it does DrDeath and others. As Tolkitalitarian as I am with story elements, I've got a pretty wide tolerance for visual interpretations, and I'm finding all of the dwarves at least interesting. Thorin is giving me something of the same vibe as Bowie the Goblin King in Labyrinth... as in "This is the different, special Dwarf" who paradoxically looks much more like a regular man. Not sure if they'd actually work that angle at all, though.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 3:50am

Post #201 of 401 (6545 views)
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Not surprised [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...but not in the heart! This is an intimidating Thorin. As he should be!

And now we know the answer to the mystery of Kili: he resembles his uncle! Smile

The whole group together, here? Thank you! Heart


I said as soon as we saw Kili that I could easily imagine a young Thorin looking much the same, so I figured between Fili and Kili we were sort of seeing the route to Thorin. Thorin and Kili's coloring is similar, don't think Kili has as much of a widow's peak but admittedly it's hard to tell with the wind machine. :) Fili seems to have the widow's peak and more of the nose(though Kili's does seem to have a bit of business done to it). Kili has the "glower", albeit more of a copy than the real thing(as it should be, he's a relatively sheltered young dwarf). IMO there is definitely a story reason for the way they look.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 4:08am

Post #202 of 401 (6560 views)
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Orcrist's detailing does resemble that of Sting [In reply to] Can't Post

but the shape of the blade appears more sabre-like (like Hadhafang) than leaf bladed (like Sting) or long sword-y (like Glamdring). I cant wait to see its entire length (that's what she said?)


Back in July 2009 we had a brief discussion about Sting, Glamdring and Orcrist. Back then I suggested Orcrist would be similar to an Asian Dao. The sword Thorin holds appears wider and heavier below the fuller (on the cutting edge) towards the point... excellent for cleaving Orcs!


Of course I could be way off, Orcrist might look nothing like this:




Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 4:15am

Post #203 of 401 (6428 views)
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Thank you QT [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, the link worked and showed Glamdring clearly. While it looks like it and Orcrist may share the same, slightly flaring, "leaf" blade shape, the similarity in hilts between the new sword and Sting is certainly more readily apparent. Perhaps, while the two swords are conceived as "mates" to be wielded by two different owners, they've conceptualized Orcrist and Sting as a matched sword and dagger set originally worn by the same person.

I've been wondering, given that they're going to give us some dwarf-history flashbacks, whether they'll be tempted to do the same to illustrate the history of the blades. Back when Itaril was first leaked, I had speculated elsewhere that maybe she actually was the character of Idril, to be used precisely in such an illustrative flashback. While I was of course wrong, and while Jackson doesn't have rights to any Silmarillion material, the rights agreement Tolkien originally signed does have a stipulation allowing the filmmakers to draw on any "related" writings as they pertain to TH and LotR, and it might be interesting to see a bit of the Gondolin-Goblin war.

It would also be interesting to see a reason put forward as to why Elrond doesn't ask for his Great-grandpa's and (possibly) Grandma's swords back, at any rate Tongue

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 4:17am

Post #204 of 401 (6527 views)
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I'm curious about how a Dwarf will be able to wield a sword made for an Elf [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't it be too long?

Not that I really understand anything about swords..

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Wraith Buster
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 4:19am

Post #205 of 401 (6537 views)
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All of them rock// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 4:25am

Post #206 of 401 (6545 views)
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Was thinking that as well [In reply to] Can't Post

But all of them have rather long weapons, heavier at the end like axes or hammers. The trick with swords is to work in a slicing motion though.

Consider two handed great swords such as the famous Braveheart claymore... maybe in the hands of Thorin Orcrist will be proportionately similar? Definitely will take some strength and a wide stance to wield.


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 4:29am

Post #207 of 401 (6507 views)
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Hmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

So you're seeing a scimitar shape, Dennis? I thought that curve to the blade was part of the leaf shape, now I'm not so sure. I'm trying to discern whether the riser ridge has a curve to it, but I can't quite tell.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


arphen
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 4:33am

Post #208 of 401 (6481 views)
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With regards to the beards... [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you completely.

A fine explanation of why robust beards are so imperative to dwarves.

Brannon nín cuia


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 4:34am

Post #209 of 401 (6450 views)
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The scabbard and cross guard too [In reply to] Can't Post

suggest an asymmetrical design. It may yet turn out to be a leaf bladed sword though... I really wish we could see more of it, heh.

(Still, I am thrilled that PJ remembered us for this one!)


Mythopoeia
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 5:52am

Post #210 of 401 (6505 views)
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Group Photo With Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

Made as a wallpaper for my laptop: http://faeriecarousel.deviantart.com/#/d3zgo48


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 7:08am

Post #211 of 401 (6388 views)
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Amazing! Though I'm wondering why the writing is in runes [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't Orcrist supposed to be an Elvish blade? Why would Elves use the Dwarf-runes for inscribing their swords? Hmm... Crazy



Briza
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 7:09am

Post #212 of 401 (6423 views)
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Re:I'm curious about how a Dwarf will be able to wield a sword made for an Elf by Faenoriel [In reply to] Can't Post

Orcrist is a well made and balanced sword, it would not weigh more then a few lbs. At a guess maybe 2-3lb, so Thorin would have little problem wielding it.

I think the main problem would be his pride, and wither he could bring himself to use a elven weapon. In saying that, the Weapons used by the other dwarves all look quite crude, so Thorin would recognize the quality of the workmanship in Orcrist hence his decision to use it.


Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 7:09am

Post #213 of 401 (6441 views)
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Is it sad [In reply to] Can't Post

That in the cold light of morming I still love this look for Thorin


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 18 2011, 7:16am

Post #214 of 401 (6498 views)
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Sad? No... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... or at least, if it is, we're both sad. Wink

The one I regret - more now, as I see composite pictures of the whole group, is Bombur. He just doesn't seem to fit. No beard, that bizarre plait and the pantomime costume. But I'm sure I'll get used to him!


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 7:19am

Post #215 of 401 (6379 views)
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You are brilliant :o) [In reply to] Can't Post

And this is why I should've read the entire thread *before* asking my previous question Blush



Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 7:19am

Post #216 of 401 (6456 views)
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Can I ask you something? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know you have your gripes with Thorin's appearance, and that's cool, but if you had nothing to go by except a description of his character traits (greed, determination etc.) - no physical description of Thorin, or of what a Tolkienesque dwarf should look like - would you say that this visual interpretation of Thorin fits the kind of character Tolkien wrote him as?


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 7:21am

Post #217 of 401 (6325 views)
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It looks like the pommel is only half a curve... [In reply to] Can't Post

... and the other half of the curve is the scabbard. That probably didn't make sense, did it? Evil



vigshane
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 7:29am

Post #218 of 401 (6399 views)
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Congrats! [In reply to] Can't Post

For two weeks, the first thing I did in the morning was opening TORN's page and seeing if there was any picture of the Dwarves. And today, I'm so glad to see TORN giving the world the first look at Thorin!

Though I'm not one of TORN's staff, I still had a strong feeling of honour on that!

I want to thank you for all you have done these years and Congratulations!

Always being a Ringer!


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 7:35am

Post #219 of 401 (6362 views)
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Because he personalized it?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 






Join us in the Reading Room for "The Return of the King" Book V! starting now!

Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 7:37am

Post #220 of 401 (6359 views)
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Yeah sure! [In reply to] Can't Post

They could go, "Don't water your beard, Father Christmas", and totally direct it at Balin Sly



Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 7:42am

Post #221 of 401 (6299 views)
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As you should! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Though I'm not one of TORN's staff, I still had a strong feeling of honour on that!


We're ALL what make TORn TORn SmileHeart



vigshane
The Shire


Jul 18 2011, 7:51am

Post #222 of 401 (6351 views)
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TORned already! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

Quote
Though I'm not one of TORN's staff, I still had a strong feeling of honour on that!


We're ALL what make TORn TORn SmileHeart


I love what you said, and we are totally TORned..Heart

Me and my friends are now trying to translate and broadcast the latest news of the Hobbit to Chinese audience and readers. TORn inspires a lot.Wink

Always being a Ringer!


Patty
Immortal


Jul 18 2011, 8:46am

Post #223 of 401 (6306 views)
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Kangi, you voice my feelings exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, I think he looks like a Klingon. But I'm confident that that's just because it's a still--in action, I'm sure that comparison will go away really quickly. Some of it has to do with his costume, though. Were Klingons also workers in metal ? (wasn't a huge Star Trek fan after TOS).

But he needs more gray hair to be believable to me. He doesn't have to have nearly as much as Balin--people gray at different stages, so I see no reason why dwarves wouldn't. But he definitely needs more gray than this. And a longer beard with a little more gray.

Permanent address: Into the West





Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 8:52am

Post #224 of 401 (6384 views)
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Great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Surely by now everything's been said, I'm late in posting, but here is my take on several things:

1. Thorin looks great!
2. As said, not too young, not too old!
3. Orcrist is incredibly beautiful.
4. (why isn't Glamdring like this?) Not in beauty, but similar in style to Sting and Orcrist.
5. the great serpent, Smaug. Serpent, not dragon. Did Tolkien ever use "serpent". I know of course they wouldn't use Tolkien's term "worm" for a massive press release.
6. I'm not sure if he looks human, Aragorn-esque, Pirate-ish or something, but I generally like the look.
7. I'm really intrigued about Thrain, Thror and most of all Dain, now. (and his 500 Dwarves, by the way).

Congrats to TORn on getting the exclusive! Smile

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



duats
Grey Havens

Jul 18 2011, 9:14am

Post #225 of 401 (6328 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien barely gives Thorin physical descriptions as it is, and this is still nowhere close to what I was picturing.


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 9:17am

Post #226 of 401 (5554 views)
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Runes and Ring [In reply to] Can't Post

I've just been checking this out too Smile Angerthas Daeron was used for inscriptions and carvings. I found it hard to find a match for "R" so thanks for clearing that up.

While I am still in geek mode, did you notice Thorin has the dwarven rune (or is it dwarf rune?) for "T" on the ring of his right hand? I haven't been able to make out the other symbols on the ring though.


(This post was edited by mulubinba on Jul 18 2011, 9:17am)


stormcrow20
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 9:37am

Post #227 of 401 (5661 views)
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Hail Thorin, King Under the Mountain! [In reply to] Can't Post

Or is that a wild man of Dunland? Tongue

I'm not thrilled with his appearance...but I'm not exactly disappointed, either. Regardless, I am confident in Richard's performance, and I can't wait to see him in action!

For some reason, I want to see his hair pulled back.

I love the costume and the armor. I really like the rings, but I wonder if people will think they are of the Seven.

Orcrist! Biter at last! I love it. It's beautiful. And it looks great in the hands of a dwarf!

Oh, how I wish Toy Biz were still around. Each of these photos has left me yearning for a nice set of action figures. I really, desperately hope another company will step up and give us Hobbit figures of matching quality!



A greenlight from the shadows shall spring!


Patty
Immortal


Jul 18 2011, 9:47am

Post #228 of 401 (5618 views)
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I can't imagine that some business won't step in... [In reply to] Can't Post

too much money to be made here. Who knows, maybe there will be some more Burger King toys?Laugh

Permanent address: Into the West





Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 10:02am

Post #229 of 401 (5509 views)
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Do you mean the hilt? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
It looks like the pommel is only half a curve...

I did notice that what little pommel area is shown is rather blade like.



It may just be the pommel or an artifact, but I wonder if they are trying to pull a Darth Maul on us with a another blade?

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 10:05am

Post #230 of 401 (5574 views)
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Gray [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, the portrayal of Thorin in action will determine his believability. He's not book Thorin, and if I passed him on the street or was charged with picking him out of a line-up, I'd fail to recognize him on both counts. Balin is distinctly gray and I would have been more troubled had he not been. Smile

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 10:14am

Post #231 of 401 (5506 views)
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Heh! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Well, this thread has gotten so long, it's a wonder you could find this, I was almost going to link to it for you! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




edinlin
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 10:15am

Post #232 of 401 (5566 views)
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Thorin action figure [In reply to] Can't Post

I want a Thorin action figure. He can have battles with my Guy of Gisborne action figureCool

Thorin looks fantastic.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 10:22am

Post #233 of 401 (5538 views)
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What is curious about THAT rune... [In reply to] Can't Post

is that it is "R" in Angerthas Moria (LotR Appendices), but if you use the runes found on Thror's Map, it is a "T".

Tolkien drew that Map before he'd settled on the runes used in LotR.

I think the other sides of that ring are only designs.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 10:24am

Post #234 of 401 (5532 views)
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Bwhahaha! Gramma, that pic is perfect! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




willowing
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 10:28am

Post #235 of 401 (5648 views)
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Thorin or Richard(in disguise)... [In reply to] Can't Post

could pass as the twin brother for Nicholas Cage.Cool Would be nice to see their stunt doubles.Smile


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 18 2011, 10:36am

Post #236 of 401 (5567 views)
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Actually, you know who he kind of reminds me of? [In reply to] Can't Post

Rocker/director Rob Zombie, heh. Cool

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Jul 18 2011, 10:38am)


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 10:45am

Post #237 of 401 (5533 views)
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Ring rune [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't realise there was Angerthas Erebor as well until I explored this further.

I think it is appropriate that they used the runic alphabet from Thror's map though.

Fantastic details on this costume. Smile


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 11:11am

Post #238 of 401 (5488 views)
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*Very* nice! [In reply to] Can't Post

I like the way you've brightened the Dwarves' coloring, and putting Thorin above them instead of in the middle of them works wonderfully.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 11:16am

Post #239 of 401 (5507 views)
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Gah, I wish you hadn't said that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I'll never be able to take movie-Thorin seriously again! CrazyWink


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 11:32am

Post #240 of 401 (5449 views)
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Of "T" and "TH"... [In reply to] Can't Post

It just occurred to me: Why was the rune for "T" used, and not the rune for "TH"? On the Map, Tolkien used the Old English thorn for "TH".

Thorin, Thrain, Thror..."TH" all.

Unless it is, that the designs on the sides of the ring are "stylized" thorns. That is quite possible, it looks like two "TH"s back-to-back, much like the back-to-back "R"s in the JRRT logo.

So that may be it: "T" on top, but a double "TH" on each side. I wonder who designed that ring?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 11:46am

Post #241 of 401 (5416 views)
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Off to .. [In reply to] Can't Post

....check my dwarf runes. You're right! i'd forgotten about the TH being one rune. I like the idea of the side symbols being stylized thorns.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 11:58am

Post #242 of 401 (5560 views)
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Ian McShane as Thorin Oakenshield (photoshop) [In reply to] Can't Post



I'm a bit rubbish at image editing, and I couldn't even bring myself to confront the task of whitening his hair, but this is essentially how I'm going to imagine Thorin from now on.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 12:00pm

Post #243 of 401 (5467 views)
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Just a touch of hyperbole [In reply to] Can't Post

Most dragons in western popular culture resemble big muscular dinosaurs with wings attached to their backs, as opposed to the more elegant wyrms who inhabit Tolkien's world.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 12:02pm

Post #244 of 401 (5380 views)
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David Bowie would have made a great Thranduil. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


reags
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 12:03pm

Post #245 of 401 (5397 views)
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Hey that's a pretty decent Photo-chop job! [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually like the look of yours - the saggy eyes and cheek bones showing the age while the eyes look like it has a thousand tales to share.

The current Thorin is alright I guess since I wasn't sure how to picture him, but the more I look at him, the more he looks like a descendant of Cpt. Jack Sparrow.

Arrrr shivers me timbers!

"Welcome to Rivendell, Mr. Anderson."


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 18 2011, 12:06pm

Post #246 of 401 (5453 views)
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Woah! [In reply to] Can't Post

That scares me a bit! Shocked

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 12:11pm

Post #247 of 401 (5422 views)
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Well, it should [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin can be a pretty scary fellow – perhaps most memorably so when he attempts to kill the treacherous Bilbo towards the end of the book.


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 12:13pm

Post #248 of 401 (5541 views)
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My updated photoshop of all dwarves plus bilbo and gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

...and through the magic of digital editing, Thorin has been reunited with the top of his head!

http://i.imgur.com/kyppa.jpg

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 12:49pm

Post #249 of 401 (5416 views)
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Fantastic! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks again to you, and everyone, who takes the time to do these. They really help put everything in context. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Vellamo
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 12:57pm

Post #250 of 401 (5370 views)
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A perfect compromise [In reply to] Can't Post

Yup, slightly younger than the book suggests but fortunately older than many have dreaded Weta will portray him. I'm quite happy with this!


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 1:02pm

Post #251 of 401 (5488 views)
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Great Job! [In reply to] Can't Post

Its so nice to see Thorin in perspective along with Gandalf and Bilbo!Smile

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 1:04pm

Post #252 of 401 (5509 views)
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well said [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure, I would have liked Thorin to sport a much larger beard, but I'm completely OKAY with his look. To me, Richard has all but nailed the character and that's the most important element. He's perfect in the warrior/arrogant sense and I truly get that he's a dwarf, a very important dwarf. So I'm fine with this representation.

All that muttered, you do make some very valid arguments as to why Thorin would be even more perfect with a fuller beard.

I'm thinking we might learn why his line have short beards, that could mean either youth or something significant to his particular family.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 1:09pm

Post #253 of 401 (5467 views)
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The Gimli purists [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose part of the reason the people who object to the new dwarf look rally around the film's Gimli apparently as the symbol of purism is more because what people perceive he embodies is closer to Tolkien's intent rather than just that they believe the film's Gimli is the ultimate embodiment of Tolkien's dwarves. Tolkien may not say dwarves have larger head proportions or all have beards down to their knees, but he does in no uncertain terms make it plain that dwarves are universally stocky individuals with significant beards (see duat's post for a bit of a discourse on 'beard politics') and heavy features. People who dislike the new Hobbit dwarf designs tend to fear the motives in making them (particularly Thorin, Fili and Kili) more 'commercial' and so are driven back to the film's Gimli as the antithesis of that marketable image- broad, lumpen, formidably bearded, no heart-throb by any stretch and resolutely himself. It might not be what Tolkien exactly imagined but it is closer we feel to his intent than the lithe, comparatively metrosexual incarnation that we suspect has more to do with marketability than acting-ability.

In addition to that, i think the point of consistency still stands very well (though rarely addressed by the supporters of the new look). I mean isn't it a bit jarring when a film series has an established image of any given character or location and then something happens (usually a change in director) and suddenly they put their new 'spin' on it. Particularly in modern fantasy franchises where being able to 'inhabit' the world is so important to viewers. I know one friend who takes umbrage with the inconsistencies in design in the Harry Potter films (the design of Hogwarts for example- i'm not sure whether it extends to the recasting and reimagining of Dumbledore's look in the wake of Richard Harris' death). It does kind of jar you out of the suspension of disbelief as it would if they had to move the production to Britain for example and find a new hobbiton- personally i would have quite liked it if they brought the Middle-earth films back to 'native soil' since i wasn't convinced wholly with the New Zealand aesthetic (beautiful, but this isn't the landscape Tolkien knew), but i supported The Hobbit remaining in New Zealand because of consistency. So even if changing something would make it 'better', in a running series it should be avoided- if something's inadequate for another chapter in the series you would have hoped they'd have planned ahead.

Of course if consistency had been maintained, the dwarven actors would now be labouring under an inch or so of rubber, and people have made the point that given the dwarves are more central to the story this time around they need as much flexibility as they can get to act and emote. It's a concern, i'll give you, but people have been acting under heavy-makeup for years and i think actors who are truly skilled should be able to- it's not that big an impediment to completely invalidate acting ability. There's also a couple of things in favour of prosthetic acting, in that most characters who require prosthetics are usually fairly impassive types, something especially true of dwarves. By limiting the actor's physical ability to emote you limit the character's emotional ability to emote- you won't get any great screwed up faces and public displays of joy or sadness- you effectively enforce a quality of stoicism upon their performance. That can work extremely powerfully- note how most emotional people tend to cry more with their face than with their eyes? When you see someone who is 'strong' cry, it tends to be quite solitary tears that otherwise go unnoticed on their face- it's heartbreaking. The eyes are another thing- it's one of the great romantic notions of acting that most of it is done with the eyes, one of the few things that goes uncovered by prosthetics. Without the finer twitches in the rest of the face, the performance becomes all about the eyes- Richard Armitage's piercing stare would get no weaker with the rest of his face slathered in hair and rubber. Animals don't have much ability to pull facial expressions and yet 'puppy-dog eyes' is one of the staple cliches for articulating a heart-breaking expression. On the other hand, people frequently claim that they feel cats 'look right through them'. If it is all in the eyes, then it should be. There is an innocence and candor in an animal's inability to emote that actors under prosthetics have utilised for years. Is John Hurt's performance in the Elephant Man more or less powerful for being unable to move most of his face?

So yes, to my eyes i think there would have been great advantages to maintaining the high levels of prosthetics utilised on Gimli- it might not have been perfect but i think it would have produced a more accurate depiction of dwarfdom than all these closely-trimmed and markedly prostheticless newbies.

Dr Death


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 1:10pm

Post #254 of 401 (5446 views)
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Perhaps they have [In reply to] Can't Post

sworn to keep their beards short until they have regained Erebor, as a prominent mark of their shame/vow?


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 18 2011, 1:11pm

Post #255 of 401 (5431 views)
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That's hideous, Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, nicely done, but hideous.

He looks more likely to burst into tears than try to reclaim his ancient kingdom. You've made me even more certain than I was before that they got this right!


(This post was edited by dormouse on Jul 18 2011, 1:12pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 1:13pm

Post #256 of 401 (5574 views)
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Congratulations! TORn...Wow! the world is a better place with you all... [In reply to] Can't Post

here beleiveing, praying, making my life a better! as well as the rest of the many many, Hobbits WorldWIDE! I'm in tears, thank you, my hood and cloak go off to you...I'm not worthy of knowing you...xoxoxOLD Bombadil


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 1:24pm

Post #257 of 401 (5541 views)
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A stroke of genius, Hengist! [In reply to] Can't Post

If there is to be any in-film explanation for the length of Thorin's beard, then I hope it's your suggestion! Not only does it make sense, but it is also somewhat founded in Tolkien lore. In any case, I love that dwarves as we know them have been redefined with this dirty baker's dozen!


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 1:29pm

Post #258 of 401 (5408 views)
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That's because he happened to be frowning and I couldn't find a better picture. [In reply to] Can't Post

Somehow I doubt that this particular expression would have been fixed permanently on his face had be been cast as Thorin.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 1:31pm

Post #259 of 401 (5486 views)
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Looks like we had better start preparing the casket for this guy [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkSly

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 1:36pm

Post #260 of 401 (5418 views)
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The elves joking about Thorin... [In reply to] Can't Post

..."not watering his beard" and Tolkien clear description of Thorin as older than Balin (who is described as very old and with a long, white beard) suggests that Tolkien's Thorin would look far older than PJ's. The fact that not one artist has depicted Thorin with a very short beard, and with the youth of Armitage, is telling.

I will, however, reserve judgment, as I don't mind Armitage's look.


Ececheira
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 1:36pm

Post #261 of 401 (5399 views)
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Sorry if this oversteps the mark but... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, we get it. We know you are unhappy about Richard Armitage's casting, and the appearance of Thorin and some of the other dwarves, but please...have mercy on the rest of us. You have said your piece on multiple occasions and it's understood. Believe me - it's understood. You don't need to keep repeating yourself, at length.

Time to change the record perhaps, at least until there is something new to go on....


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 1:40pm

Post #262 of 401 (5408 views)
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It's nice but [In reply to] Can't Post

Given that you've chosen the film's streamline Thorin and a decidedly hangdog-expressioned McShane picture, it doesn't work quite as well as the Richard Armitage one (i mean that in terms of simply that picture- this is not an endorsement of Armitage as Thorin). I'd be tempted to pick a fiercer McShane picture (this classic scowl for instance: http://ology.com/...e/Ian_McShane4_0.jpg or this rather more curious expression http://www.blogcdn.com/...08/07/71285958_8.jpg) or a different dwarf (i did think Oin might make a decent base but there are others- i always thought him on the left of the picture of this post would be a good base for Thorin http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=375756#375756 but the middle one would look just as good particularly given his greyness). You could even cut out the Orcrist from the official picture, put it on end and just have it poking onto the screen (even resting on his far shoulder...)

Dr Death


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 1:41pm

Post #263 of 401 (5452 views)
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He is an heirless 195-year-old Dwarven monarch struggling to reclaim his kingdom before he dies. [In reply to] Can't Post

In other words – yes.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 1:43pm

Post #264 of 401 (5412 views)
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It does a bit [In reply to] Can't Post

Since i was replying to a single specific person, and you do not have to read my post (particularly if you view in threaded form, though i prefer flat). It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's another thing to tell them to shut up because you chose to read their post.

Dr Death


Dlanor da Great
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 1:46pm

Post #265 of 401 (5454 views)
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Cheer up [In reply to] Can't Post

 I think that all the people complaining that some Dwarves dont look Dwarvish enough, need to cheer up and remember that out of the 13 Dwarves, you can argue that 9 of them are very Dwarvish looking and The army of thousands of Dwarves at the battle of the 5 armies ,including Dain, are likely to be extremely Dwarvish ,since they are not main characters, and will have battle armor much like Gimli. Plus ,possible flashbacks of other Dwarves ,possibly in prologues, May in fact be Dwarvish also. So, as far as im concerned, 3-4 Dwarves looking Un-Dwarvish is nothing compared to the hundreds or thousands we may see in the movie that are familiar looking Dwarves.Tongue


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 18 2011, 1:49pm

Post #266 of 401 (5479 views)
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I'm afraid there wouldn't have been a picture [In reply to] Can't Post

... that would have convinced me. That 'hang-dog' expression with the big pouchy eyes is how Ian McShane looks these days, in any photo, and it's not how I see Thorin. This is just how I feel about it. Just me. Not trying to force it on anyone else but I'm really glad they didn't cast him.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 1:50pm

Post #267 of 401 (5368 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

Balin and Dwalin fit Tolkien's descriptions better than Gimli or Gloin. I would be happiest with a set of Balin or Dwalin-esque dwarves, in terms of proportions.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 1:53pm

Post #268 of 401 (5457 views)
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Balin maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwalin, not so much. For me his proportions and look just kind of conjures image of Little-John. As for Balin, while at first i thought it was endearing, the 'Garden Gnome' resemblance is beginning to grate me now- particularly with the distinctively un-dwarven shoes.

Dr Death


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 1:56pm

Post #269 of 401 (5677 views)
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And there are plenty of people... [In reply to] Can't Post

...who have repeated their bits about how Armitage's Thorin looks just right.

Please, lets not admonish people for stating their opinions, and doing so thoroughly. If you're not interested, just ignore it.


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 2:00pm

Post #270 of 401 (5374 views)
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This forum welcomes all [In reply to] Can't Post

points of view as long as civility is maintained. If you do not like a certain posters point of view then I suggest that you do not read their posts. It is not appropriate for you to tell people what they can or can not post


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:03pm

Post #271 of 401 (5382 views)
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I'm not sure I understand... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Tolkien never quite describes the exact nature of dwarven "shoes."
2. Tolkien never talks about proportions that are evident in Gimli and Co.

I see what you're saying about Dwalin and Balin's 'specific' looks, though, but I was talking about proportions and general facial characteristics. Smoother, non-lumpy latex faces, with generally normal body proportions, but longer beards than Dwalin's (and 'not bald), are what I was looking for.

The "Gimli dwarf" looks supremely awkward, is very unnatural, and is just plain difficult to watch. Not to mention the even more bloated LOTR film dwarves linked to somewhere else in this thread.

-GM


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:04pm

Post #272 of 401 (5327 views)
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Amen... [In reply to] Can't Post

I never understood why opinions about film and art are seen as threatening...


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:05pm

Post #273 of 401 (5348 views)
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Ah, yes, but will PJ show him as 195? [In reply to] Can't Post

There has been some mention on recent threads about the way PJ contracted time at the beginning of FotR, with Gandalf visiting the hobbit hole and then returning quite speedily, unlike the long gap in the book. This explains why Frodo is portrayed as being very young.

In the paragraph under the Thorin photo, we have a reference to the "young prince Thorin" and the question is, how young? If they do a back story, will they employ a child actor or will they contract the amount of time between the coming of Smaug and Thorin's meeting with Gandalf with Armitage playing his younger self both at the attack on the Lonely Mountain and the Battle of Azanulbizar? He could easily play a 30 year old (in human terms) for his younger self (see the images of him that someone posted of his Captain America interview) and if all his back story is squashed closer together, then this not only explains why Thorin looks only 50+ but also explains why they employed a younger actor to play both ends of this shorter life span.

I don't remember the arguments about Frodo's age. Were they vicious, LOL?

And, just to rub things in, will his younger self look just like Kili (even louder laughter)? Doubtless, this is an image that PJ will hug close to his chest.


Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 18 2011, 2:08pm

Post #274 of 401 (5372 views)
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Thorin in the cold light of morning...*eyes glaze over* [In reply to] Can't Post

*squee!*

Sorry, I went there. I can't help it.

Angelic



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


edinlin
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 2:08pm

Post #275 of 401 (5303 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

 Sooo happy we have PJ's vision of Thorin.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:18pm

Post #276 of 401 (5514 views)
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Aragorn did not look old either.. [In reply to] Can't Post

and, in my opinion, it really didn't matter. In fact if anything it added more dimension to his character.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:19pm

Post #277 of 401 (5536 views)
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Question... [In reply to] Can't Post

How does "not being old," in and of itself, add more dimension to a character? Curious about that.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:21pm

Post #278 of 401 (5497 views)
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I didn't say he wasn't old [In reply to] Can't Post

He was old, the fact that he was not OBVIOUSLY very old, added a sense of mystery to the character


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 2:35pm

Post #279 of 401 (5452 views)
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Altaira, I stand corrected [In reply to] Can't Post

and I thank you for explaining graciously and patiently and not making me eat humble pie ...Smile
(they were a great rock band but might be a bit indigestible by now Evil)

(sorry, couldn't resist Wink).

Good thing I never put a photograph of my face in my user profile as an avatar because now I'd have to decorate it liberally with virtual egg --- and I don't know the first thing about using photoshop! Frown

My apologies to newsfrombree for doubting his/her (?) linguistic proficiency with regard to this saying! Evil

I find it quite astonishing that, in all the forty years of my love affair with the English language, I've never come across that particular expression, either in any of the thousands of books I've read (I'm not exaggerating, word of honour!) or while living in England, Canada, and the U.S.A. Never too old to learn, I hope...

Yes, the adjective 'humble' fits, it was just use of the verb I found confusing ('to humble' on its own it really is fairly negative), and I daresay I take things too literally at times. Unsure

At any rate, I'm not the only person in the world who has a bit of a problem with that expression, see http://blogs.msdn.com/b/heatherleigh/archive/2005/10/03/476626.aspx
(*heaves relieved sigh*)

My guess is that this extraordinary honour is due to PJ because he really seems to care for the fans. After all, he got Mark Ordesky into a situation where he pretty much had to promise the world premiere of RotK to Wellington, NZ, which I consider a very adroit piece of manoeuvering on PJ's part.

And I do think we deserve it, considering we spend countless hours, days, weeks, lifetimes discussing, obsessing, even fighting over the details of his previous masterpieces and now on his work-in-progress! Tongue

That said, I'd better tear myself away from this enticing thread and do some much-needed housework, deal with correspondence, go do my weekly political activist bit...

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 2:39pm

Post #280 of 401 (5528 views)
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Perhaps... [In reply to] Can't Post

They're going to play up Thorin's direct descent from Durin the Deathless as a rationale for his younger-than-his-years appearance? I recently sat myself down finally to watch the extended scenes from the The Two Towers, and they did add in that one where Eowyn discovers Aragorn's Dunedain longevity.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 2:54pm

Post #281 of 401 (5436 views)
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I think it's certainly possible.. [In reply to] Can't Post

and an interesting idea. I was just trying to offer another perspective on his "middle-aged" look and Aragorn came to mind.

I think sometimes to use this type of reasoning (not the most obvious) in translating a character to the screen for us can be more successful than trying to be as literal as possible... but that's just my opinion.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 3:09pm

Post #282 of 401 (5426 views)
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Well with Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post

It's different since he has such a longer lifespan than mortal men. Given that Aragorn lived for 210 years, at 87 he wasn't even halfway through his life- the character of him was in a sense emphasised by the fact he was (to a normally spanned human) incredibly old, and yet here he was appearing to be just into his middle years. That said, Aragorn isn't young, and the PJ originally cast Stuart Townsend who really was too young, it was only once PJ realised his mix up that the last minute replacement of Viggo Mortensen took the role. What was great about Viggo was even though he was a handsome man (and handsome in quite a polished, angular 'american' way- he was no 'bit of rough' like Sean Bean), he really did grunge down incredibly well and had a strangely 'haunted' look to him. There was something about him, some quality that no other human face in the films had that made you think he could be a man of superior blood. That shot during the 'cost of love' scene where his corpse transforms into his own sarcophagus statue shows how striking a look he actually had- it translated perfectly into the marble. Granted he did look pants in the full beard during his coronation (Viggo was never going to fit the kind of 'jolly old king' look, though i note, his beard then was actually fuller than Thorin's here) he had a look which was very noble. Then again, i'm glad Denethor looked nothing like him- the blood of numenor has more than one look in it's dna and John Noble looked superb as Denethor with the slicked hair and long hanging face- another one that could very easily be transposed into marble.

With Thorin's age though, i can't really see what point it's going to emphasise. His impetuousness? He's been waiting a hundred and seventy years. His fitness? In the end it's the oldest and youngest members of the company who bite it at Five Armies- natural selection suggests that fitness and experience were the key things lacking respectively from the casualties. Leadership qualities? He's single-minded and vengeful, these are not the qualities of a strategic or diplomatic mind. My hunch right from day one was that the reason they (were alway going to) made him younger was for commercial and cinematic reasons rather than reasons based on emphasising traits of his character.

Dr Death


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 3:27pm

Post #283 of 401 (5437 views)
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now we know who might be Tauriel`s love interest [In reply to] Can't Post

 


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 3:33pm

Post #284 of 401 (5435 views)
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I think your going to find [In reply to] Can't Post

or I hope that we will find that Richard Armitage will successfully convey those personality traits that are central to Thorin's character in the book (single-mindedness, vengeful, etc.) much in the same way that Viggo was able to do for Aragorn in LOTR. In fact he, also, looks "haunted" here to me, which is appropriate if you consider the fact that he has been in exile and thinking of revenge for so many years. He is also the company's leader and does become a hero at the battle of five armies.

I think your right tho in stating that he is probably made to be younger looking for commercial reasons, simply because some people wont be sold on, or connect as much with an old man Thorin. That's not to say I am not happy with him...I think that in translating a book for film you have to make these sort of decisions and you just can't be 100 percent literal.


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 3:37pm

Post #285 of 401 (5361 views)
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Very Nice! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks! Nice job.


Snulle
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 3:40pm

Post #286 of 401 (5424 views)
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Ouch! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just the thought makes me cringe. I really really hope you're wrong ... Unsure


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 3:49pm

Post #287 of 401 (5367 views)
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His eyes remind me of [In reply to] Can't Post

a younger Edward James Olmos (circa 1980's Miami Vice).


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 3:52pm

Post #288 of 401 (5277 views)
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Not at all [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Good thing I never put a photograph of my face in my user profile as an avatar because now I'd have to decorate it liberally with virtual egg



Of course you wouldn't. There are so many nuances to the word 'humble' I can see how it would be very easy to wonder which of them was intended.


Quote
thank you for explaining graciously and patiently and not making me eat humble pie



Ha! Great pun. But really, you're the gracious one. Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


kzer_za
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 3:57pm

Post #289 of 401 (5503 views)
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I'm kind of surprised by how negative the front-page comments are [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011/07/17/46145-theonering-net-exclusive-behold-thorin-oakenshield-and-orcrist/#comments

Not just on Thorin, but on all the dwarves. It seemed to me that most people were basically happy with the dwarves, Kili and some minor details aside.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Jul 18 2011, 3:58pm)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 4:15pm

Post #290 of 401 (5315 views)
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I don't think it was fitness and experience [In reply to] Can't Post

that were the key things lacking respectively from the casualties. As the leader and heir, and being in the front of the dwarven assault, Thorin would have been the primary target and threat for Bolg and his bodyguards, so he would have received the brunt of the goblins' fury, and his nephews, Kili and Fili, would have fought to the death to protect their uncle. In the end, I think it had to do less with their fitness and experience and more with their place in the dwarven heirarchy.


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 18 2011, 4:17pm

Post #291 of 401 (5320 views)
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ha ha ha, I know [In reply to] Can't Post

the idea is silly, but just imagine......


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 4:25pm

Post #292 of 401 (5391 views)
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I noticed that as well [In reply to] Can't Post

It may have to do with the differences in representative populations that each forum attracts. The general consensus of the posts may vary depending on the type of forum being used (i.e.- response patterns from Facebook, Yahoo, TORn Forum, TORn front comments, Twitter, etc. may all be very different). The audiences vary from each. It would be interesting to see a statistical comparison of responses based on the sample populations for each news media used.


Ref
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 4:27pm

Post #293 of 401 (5407 views)
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Well I'm happy with the dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll put my hands up now, I am no hard-core, purist Hobbit fan. However, The Hobbit was read to me as a child by my late father so I know a fair bit.

But regarding Thorin's age seriously, he has been cast and written younger - this device worked with Frodo in LotRs, I'm sure that I'll work in TH. Armitage is an excellent actor - your beloved character is in more than capable hands.

Viewers of a nervous disposition may be interested to know that your television is off and I am speaking to you from inside your head...

*~* Hugh Dennis, Mock the Week *~*

Icon made by the talented miss_jaffacake


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 4:28pm

Post #294 of 401 (5252 views)
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Yes, this, 100 % [In reply to] Can't Post

The problem with the Gimli look is that enormous amount of akward, unnatural lumpy stuff on their faces. And no DrDeath, you can't give me Tolkien quote where he says they have lumpy faces.

And I'm afraid to say "it's how people usually imagine them" is a rather weak argument. Firstly, who has the right the say "most people are of this opinion", and secondly the opinion that Dwarves look like Gimli comes from PJ, not from JRRT, and therefore I'm not entitled to agree with the image.

As for continuity, well, they already have their sliding scale of Gimliness. Some Dwarves look more Gimlish and the others less. That's a good way to do it. The visual connection to LotR is kept, while diversity is created and imgination allowed to bloom. Smile

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 4:29pm

Post #295 of 401 (5346 views)
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I'm betting... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It would be interesting to see a statistical comparison of responses based on the sample populations for each news media used.

that Warner Bros. has a team in marketing doing precisely what you describe and will guard their tabulations more closely than Smaug.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 4:37pm

Post #296 of 401 (5313 views)
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Good Point [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo was like 50 when he left the Shire...

The movie would have been quite different if he had been portrayed that way...not to mention the sense of urgency that is felt in the movie from the time of Bilbo's birthday party to when Frodo actually leaves being absent in the books...it's actually about a 30 year span.

As much as I LOVE the books, what works for a novel does not necessarily work for film.


(This post was edited by architecthis on Jul 18 2011, 4:38pm)


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 5:04pm

Post #297 of 401 (5267 views)
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Yeap, I join the congratulations! [In reply to] Can't Post

Fantastic you got the exclusive!.... that speaks very high of this site and of course, MrCere and all the guys who make this place an awesome paradise for Tolkien fans....
*big hug to all of you!*

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::

(This post was edited by Eruthurin on Jul 18 2011, 5:06pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 5:17pm

Post #298 of 401 (5240 views)
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I'm afraid that's not much consolation [In reply to] Can't Post

The sight of a few hundred nameless old Dwarves at the Battle of Five Armies won't do much to fulfil my desire to see the one and only Thorin Oakenshield rendered as Tolkien envisioned him. Some of the twelve peripheral Dwarves (most notably Balin) look suitably weathered and experienced, and for that I'm thankful, but they ultimately don't matter. If there was one Dwarf I wanted them to get right, it was Thorin. Attempting to justify the treatment received by Thorin on the grounds that there will be better-looking Dwarves elsewhere in the films is a bit like miscasting Frodo and then surrounding him with a perfectly-cast Sam, Merry and Pippin – a problem wrapped up in nice frills is still a problem. My concern is primarily for the individual character, and making the rest of his race look the way I think he should look isn't going to make him look better.


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 5:26pm

Post #299 of 401 (5260 views)
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They seem mostly positive to me [In reply to] Can't Post

Or am I misunderstanding your post?

Anyway, we've always had a lot of differing opinions around here.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 5:41pm

Post #300 of 401 (5270 views)
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All right [In reply to] Can't Post

I am sorry if you think Ian McShane's solemn gaze is 'hideous', but surely you acknowledge that the 'hangdog' expression is not permanently fixed on his face? For example, here is a picture of the man smiling; the lines on his face are somewhat smoothed out and he certainly doesn't look like he's about to 'burst into tears'! The picture I posted earlier was from some sort of high-contrast photoshoot which seems to emphasise the lines and crags of his face – it's part of the reason I selected it (remember, 195-year-old Dwarf), and while he does have a somewhat mournful look in his eyes, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, you know, put on different expressions, as seen in the above picture of him with his wife. I actually think the capability to put on the brink-of-tears look would be a wonderful asset for the scene where Thorin learns that one of his allies has betrayed him, stolen the birthright he desires so greatly and handed it to his enemies...


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 5:58pm

Post #301 of 401 (5305 views)
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Well Richard Armitage is more than capable of... [In reply to] Can't Post

...of a "brink of tears" look so I'm still not seeing the issue with Armitage. :)



In Reply To
I am sorry if you think Ian McShane's solemn gaze is 'hideous', but surely you acknowledge that the 'hangdog' expression is not permanently fixed on his face? For example, here is a picture of the man smiling; the lines on his face are somewhat smoothed out and he certainly doesn't look like he's about to 'burst into tears'! The picture I posted earlier was from some sort of high-contrast photoshoot which seems to emphasise the lines and crags of his face – it's part of the reason I selected it (remember, 195-year-old Dwarf), and while he does have a somewhat mournful look in his eyes, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, you know, put on different expressions, as seen in the above picture of him with his wife. I actually think the capability to put on the brink-of-tears look would be a wonderful asset for the scene where Thorin learns that one of his allies has betrayed him, stolen the birthright he desires so greatly and handed it to his enemies...



Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 5:59pm

Post #302 of 401 (5280 views)
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I am not convinced [In reply to] Can't Post

Flag I saw IM in pirates I wasn't impressed he seemed swamped by the costume so how would he cope with Thorin's. Also for mein this shot RA looks about 50 in human years which is ok for 195 in Dwarf years. I look at IM and just don't see how he could attack the trolls fight of the Goblins etc.

Also I think we will have at least one scene featuring the young Thorin probably when he loses his home. They couldn't have made IM look younger.

In Reply To
I am sorry if you think Ian McShane's solemn gaze is 'hideous', but surely you acknowledge that the 'hangdog' expression is not permanently fixed on his face? For example, here is a picture of the man smiling; the lines on his face are somewhat smoothed out and he certainly doesn't look like he's about to 'burst into tears'! The picture I posted earlier was from some sort of high-contrast photoshoot which seems to emphasise the lines and crags of his face – it's part of the reason I selected it (remember, 195-year-old Dwarf), and while he does have a somewhat mournful look in his eyes, I don't see why he shouldn't be able to, you know, put on different expressions, as seen in the above picture of him with his wife. I actually think the capability to put on the brink-of-tears look would be a wonderful asset for the scene where Thorin learns that one of his allies has betrayed him, stolen the birthright he desires so greatly and handed it to his enemies...



Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 18 2011, 6:09pm

Post #303 of 401 (5265 views)
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Proportions [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the "lumpy faces" in LOTR is mainly a by-product of trying to alter the proportions of the human body to become more compact, as per tolkien's description of the dwarves physique. The head simply has to be made larger somehow. Many of the actors casts as dwarves are actually quite tall so that they can interact with Martin Freeman without needing any special scale effects.
I think the issue of proportions is solved nicer in some of the new designs compared with Gimli - rather than using a full mask, emphasis is on ears, nose forehead/hair, leaving a bit more of the actors real face to be used for, well, acting. Balin, Oin and Gloin really appear to have dwarven proportions.

The issue for me with Fili, Kili and very possibly Thorin is precisely this, that they still looks human rather than dwarfish. I'm all for a little bit of variation in terms of look, but I would have liked to see some characteristics that unites all of them and ultimately conveys that they're dwarves, rather than men.


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 18 2011, 6:10pm

Post #304 of 401 (5276 views)
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Now, Flagg, that's not fair... [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't say Ian McShane himself looked hideous, not would I. I have no personal grievance against the man and besides, I'd never say that of anyone. I used to like him very much in Lovejoy, years ago.

I was reacting to your mock-up of him as Thorin. If someone who really disliked him had done that they couldn't have made him look much less suitable, to my mind. I'm sorry, I know it's not what you want to hear. I'm sure he's a very nice man and a fine actor in his own field but I just don't feel he's right for Thorin. Besides, the role isn't open. It's taken, by Richard Armitage. It's really too late to discuss casting now. Richard Armitage isn't the Thorin I imagine when I read the book but I have every confidence that he will really bring the character to life in the films and I'm looking forward to seeing him do it. I think you'll find he has a broad enough range of emotions, if your mind isn't so closed that you won't even try to take his performance on merit.

I'm sorry, this is just how I feel about it.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 6:12pm

Post #305 of 401 (5269 views)
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So it's OK for Armitage to look like he's about to burst into tears, but not McShane? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 6:20pm

Post #306 of 401 (5262 views)
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let it rest Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't like the picture either... but I do like the one of Armitage. PJ is good at surprising us with unlikely actors he knows he can get the right performance from. Just because Guillermo would have cast someone else doesn't make GDT right. I trust PJ more because he's been here before, he puts together a group of actors as an ensemble, not a mere collection of names. He must have seen chemistry between Armitage and Freeman as well as the rest of the dwarves.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 6:23pm

Post #307 of 401 (5187 views)
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That's not what I meant [In reply to] Can't Post

You said 'That's hideous' a couple of times, but you did not actually specify what you were talking about – from context I assumed that you were saying the hangdog/solemn gaze expression was hideous. If you'll re-read my last post, you'll find that this is exactly what I said – I never accused you of making personal remarks about the man, as you seem to imply.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 6:24pm

Post #308 of 401 (5130 views)
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Great job, I really like that. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 6:30pm

Post #309 of 401 (5284 views)
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Please do not say that [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Just because Guillermo would have cast someone else doesn't make GDT right.

You are not the first one to say this, but boiling down my point of view to 'You just like McShane because GDT liked him' is an entirely dishonest and unfair assessment of this situation. I have stated many times why I think McShane was a good choice for Thorin, and all my reasons have been real ones; never have I said that I think he's good because my favoured director wanted him. (The same cannot be said of those who chant the 'Trust PJ' mantra.) I have praised several of PJ's casting decisions, so I hope you realise that I am not mindlessly following GDT and condemning PJ out of spite.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 6:31pm

Post #310 of 401 (5211 views)
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huh? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
So it's OK for Armitage to look like he's about to burst into tears, but not McShane?


No idea what you are talking about, who said that? I was responding to your post, not to the other post. In your post you talked about that look being a good one, that McShane had, for what is going to happen in The Hobbit and I was responding that I'm quite sure Richard Armitage is more than capable of pulling off the bring of tears look if needs be. So it isn't like McShane is capable of it and Armitage isn't, so it isn't really a point in McShane's favor, IMO.

Or I tried to say that in not quite so many words and obviously must have failed. :)


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 6:31pm

Post #311 of 401 (5143 views)
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Great idea Hengist! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm rather rusty on my Tolkien dwarf lore (need to expand beyond LoTR and The Hobbit).

I hope your excellent suggestion is used as a reason why Thorin and Kili/Fili have shorter beards.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 6:36pm

Post #312 of 401 (5207 views)
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Well that's up to the costume designers [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt that McShane would have been 'swamped' had he been cast as Thorin and made to wear a similar costume as the one we see Armitage wearing now; I actually think the image I posted earlier does a pretty good job of showing that he wouldn't look swamped at all. As for the flashback where Erebor and Dale are destroyed: I sincerely hope that it was not a major factor in the filmmakers' casting process. That scene is not essential to the story of The Hobbit, and even if they do include it, they could make Thorin look youthful with prosthetics, or simply cast a younger actor for the brief duration of the flashback. I think being true to the heart of the character is more important than showing him cartwheeling around and smashing hordes of goblins.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 6:43pm

Post #313 of 401 (5241 views)
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You seem to have taken my post out of context [In reply to] Can't Post

I was responding to dormouse, who said that McShane looked as if he was about to 'burst into tears', and that this was a 'hideous' expression (I think; I'm still confused about that one). In any case, I think the despair of the character at the moment of his betrayal would be more powerful if he is being portrayed as aged and nearing the end of his life (or at least the end of his strength); that this is his last grasp, his final chance to reclaim his birthright, and that he has been thwarted utterly. I wish Armitage good luck – I actually have a certain degree of faith in him, believe it or not – but I can't help but feel that he was not the best choice for the part.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 6:48pm

Post #314 of 401 (5139 views)
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Wait, wait, wait [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you just ask people not to boil your opinion down to just your director preference while simultaneously boiling down the opinions of all the PJ preferrers simply to to their director preference?

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 6:49pm

Post #315 of 401 (5133 views)
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Gowron indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

He does kinda look like Gowron, doesn't he. And I can't help thinking of the quote "Revenge, a dish best served Cold" that Christopher Plummer uttered in Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country.


But then, the Klingons are a warrior race, like the Dwarves, so maybe the inspiration is closer than we think.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


mykonos
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 6:50pm

Post #316 of 401 (5134 views)
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You're pretty good at image editing! [In reply to] Can't Post

I ilke Ian McShane, but his eyes look a little bland in that pic Wink Good job nonetheless.

There's nothing wrong with having this image as your own personal Thorin. But it's just not going to be the Thorin of the movies. I think it would be wise to get used to that fact and just enjoy what's coming our way in 2012. Smile


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 18 2011, 6:52pm

Post #317 of 401 (5184 views)
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*Sigh* [In reply to] Can't Post

Flagg, I said the picture looked hideous. Not the man, not his expression, the picture. OK? I have just explained this once, so please take my word for it now - nobody likes beng misquoted.


Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 6:53pm

Post #318 of 401 (5115 views)
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Perhaps we should agree to differ [In reply to] Can't Post

I honestly thought that IM was badly cast in Pirates and his rewiews were mixed at best. I felt he struggled to allow his personality to break free of the costume.

I agree that Thorins back story is only part of it but these films have to opened up because the hobbit as it is written would not transfer to two films. so I am suggest there will be more than just a nod to the back story. If so PJ had to choose an actor who could age thirty odd years.

Te age and worldly weariness. He does not have to look like a seventy year ol to show how troubled he is by all that he as lost.

Perhaps Flagg we should agree to difer


Zloy
Registered User

Jul 18 2011, 6:54pm

Post #319 of 401 (5133 views)
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Hi-res Balin and Dwalin [In reply to] Can't Post

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0yoNg9INh0s/TiBRuyt4rQI/AAAAAAAAA6g/3Ijg0Z2tWbA/s1600/wpid-Photo-15072011-0534.jpg


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 18 2011, 6:58pm

Post #320 of 401 (5133 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Frodo is a perfect example.

Elijah Wood was far younger and much more 'attractive' than my personal interpretation of Frodo, yet I applaud his casting and his performance. It *is* possible to love the books for giving us our own personal interpretation of the Middle-earth we love, and to love the movies if one believes they were another person's (by and large) successful attempt at giving us their own interpretation. The two don't necessarily cancel each other out.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 6:59pm

Post #321 of 401 (5053 views)
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My hero! // [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 7:00pm

Post #322 of 401 (5139 views)
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No, you misunderstand me [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not like it when people brush aside my views on the supposition that I'm simply following GDT's ideas. The reason I do not like this is that it is not true. However, there are some members who literally respond 'Trust PJ' whenever someone dares to say a word against him. In their case it is not unfair, because it's true. I never said that 'all' PJ supporters are this way – if they were, I wouldn't be here – but I'm sure you'll agree that the mantra does have a significant number of chanters. You don't see me posting 'Trust GDT' every time someone criticises him. Angelic


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 18 2011, 7:03pm

Post #323 of 401 (5157 views)
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Armitage casting [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the casting of RA, reinforced by the visuals provided, is indicating that this is not how Thorin's arc will play out in the movie. It appears that Thorin will be more of a proud warrior type and quite possibly a bit more of a "leading man" compared with the old, embittered king in exile of the book.

my concern with the casting of RA is not so much his looks or acting capabilities but rather what it indicates for PJ's interpretation of the character. Something tells me that the real controversy has just begun...


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 7:04pm

Post #324 of 401 (5196 views)
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Flagg, for the love of pete...trust Pete! [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue



Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 7:04pm

Post #325 of 401 (5077 views)
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Back gate of Moria [In reply to] Can't Post

For the same reason that the Back Gate of Moria was inscribed with a message stating "Speak Friend and Enter" and saying Friend in Elvish was the key.

Elves and Dwarves don't always like each other, but they occasionally work together, or take commissions at least. Bilbo's Mithril coat is said to have been made for a young Elf Lord, since there is little chance it would fit too many Dwarves.

So with Orcrist, either Dwarves made it for an Elf, or Elves made it for a Dwarf, or it was lost in battle and found by Thorin, or any number of other options. The Dwarven runes could have come later in the sword's life.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 7:04pm

Post #326 of 401 (5397 views)
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Oh I'm used to it all right [In reply to] Can't Post

The fact that Armitage has been cast in the role is something I've long since come to terms with. But when I hear people criticising my personal interpretation of Thorin (or any other aspect of Tolkien's work), I feel obliged to defend it, and hopefully enable them to understand why I feel the way I do. Angelic


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 7:09pm

Post #327 of 401 (5431 views)
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So do all who live to see such casting... [In reply to] Can't Post

But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the actor that is given to us. There are other forces at work in this world, besides the will of fans. Armitage was meant to find the beard. In which case, you were also meant to enjoy it. And that is an encouraging thought.

Cool



Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 7:14pm

Post #328 of 401 (5394 views)
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awesome [In reply to] Can't Post

Very funny Richie Rich, words fail me.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 7:19pm

Post #329 of 401 (5377 views)
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Thanks Kyriel [In reply to] Can't Post

I needed that little Oded break. And yes, that beard length is uber hot. Must be what the male Dwarves in Thorin's family strive for.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 7:20pm

Post #330 of 401 (5385 views)
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Correct me if I'm wrong but [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the reason why they blocked out half of Balin is because in the original picture, Dwalin overlaps Balin, so they needed Thorin to block out the jutting elbow and cloak of Dwalin that overlaps Balin.

And I think they cut off Bombur and Kili at the end, as well as Thorin's other arm, is to get the resolution/display ratio just right (although my MacBook Pro has a 8:5 ratio, so none of the wallpaper sizes really fits!)

But of course, the wallpaper definitely could be adjusted so that everyone fits in all nicely and still follow the display ratios.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 7:20pm

Post #331 of 401 (5317 views)
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LOL!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

LaughLaughLaughLaugh Truly amazing Richie Rich!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 7:21pm

Post #332 of 401 (5297 views)
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If as light as you suggest, which [In reply to] Can't Post

is entirely possible given Elven craft, that is one more reason for Orcrist to be of the Middle-eastern-y sabre type. In order to be a proper cleaving sword most of the weight would have to be towards its point. This doesn't rule out the leaf blade design (a nice compromise between cleaving and thrusting) but ideally, for maximum hacking (as well as slicing, when drawn across one's target) ability the sabre shape is ideal.


Ececheira
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 7:26pm

Post #333 of 401 (5311 views)
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Just to clarify [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not the opinion I have an issue with, just the repetition of the same points again and again.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 18 2011, 7:33pm

Post #334 of 401 (5279 views)
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Looking at Armitage now [In reply to] Can't Post

he'll make a much better Thorin than Bard imho. Having said that it is clear to me, especially in light of who was cast as Bard, that Thorin, rather than Bard, will carry the kind of weight that Aragorn did in LOTR.


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 18 2011, 7:34pm

Post #335 of 401 (5305 views)
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Maybe they said to each other "Nah, nobody is going to guess, are they? Nah!" ;) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
He does kinda look like Gowron, doesn't he. And I can't help thinking of the quote "Revenge, a dish best served Cold" that Christopher Plummer uttered in Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country.


But then, the Klingons are a warrior race, like the Dwarves, so maybe the inspiration is closer than we think.



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 7:37pm

Post #336 of 401 (5295 views)
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Armitage's supporters repeat their opinions just as much as his detractors. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 18 2011, 7:38pm

Post #337 of 401 (5246 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that we are seeing the same thing at works here. Some of the characters are somewhat 'reinterpreted' to cater to the mainstream movie going demographic. The assessment is that "no teenagers will go and watch a movie where all characters are old men with long beard", and to be fair, the producers probably have a point. Having that said, as a fan of the book i'd selfishly like to see as much as possible of it on screen. Something however tells me that a lot more than some beard will be altered and that maybe some of the people who pride themselves with their open-mindedness now will get tested too later on. Wink


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 7:39pm

Post #338 of 401 (5402 views)
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Perhaps it was just your tone? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It's not the opinion I have an issue with, just the repetition of the same points again and again.

There are more subtle ways to make one's point.




Laugh

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 18 2011, 7:47pm

Post #339 of 401 (5343 views)
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Even Gimli doesn't maintain continuity with the Gimli look. [In reply to] Can't Post

See the flet scene in the FOTR-EE.

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Bound
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 7:48pm

Post #340 of 401 (5222 views)
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haha... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see this all getting slightly touchy.... it's not heated or personal but touchy...

I can kinda undertand both sides of the problem here....

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 7:50pm

Post #341 of 401 (5251 views)
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Maybe Gowron looks like Thorin? [In reply to] Can't Post

All this Klingon talk has gotten the the original theme music stuck in my head now, thanks. Tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58wJRrvVgZI

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 18 2011, 7:52pm

Post #342 of 401 (5245 views)
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I'm not even involved. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've just been waiting for an excuse to use that, it was just an example. Evil

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Bound
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 7:56pm

Post #343 of 401 (5241 views)
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well nothing like a bit of humour... [In reply to] Can't Post

to break the tension.

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 8:05pm

Post #344 of 401 (5291 views)
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Well in a sense that's what the controversy was about from the start [In reply to] Can't Post

Certainly for me. While it would have been nice for Richard Armitage to have resembled the Thorin in my mind's eye, it's not his look that is the real problem with making him younger- it's the knock on effect to his character and his arc. I've got no doubt Richard Armitage is suited to the role the writers have written, it's just a case of what's the nature of the role they've written? If Thorin looked as old as Gandalf that's only half the battle won (admittedly the more important half in a visual representation), it's what the look tells us about the nature of the character that is just as important. This is not only not Thorin as we imagined him looking, this suggests he's not the Thorin as we imagined him acting- age effects more than just the colour of your hair and Thorin's character is that of an old embittered King. I've said it before, but he's actually more like Theoden (at least Theoden's cinematic counterpart) than he is to Aragorn- Thorin's attitude to Gandalf is very similar to Theoden's in the film- courteous but not without suspicion.

Dr Death


Bow&Helm
The Shire

Jul 18 2011, 8:09pm

Post #345 of 401 (5303 views)
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for all your hard work TORn. Can't wait to see Thorin in action...


Jettorex
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 8:10pm

Post #346 of 401 (5311 views)
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Now that its sunk in [In reply to] Can't Post

..... I didn't want to comment too soon as I was kind of shocked when I saw it and wanted to give it a while to sink in. Well, I think its sunk in and I still dont like it at all. In a nut shell:

Too young looking
Too good looking (in a Hollywood cliche kind of way)
Too human looking

I am all for dwarf diversity but at least it has to be in the same ball park.

Thorin (and Kili) IMHO are so non-dwarven in their appearance that I fear it could be a huge distraction and take me right out of the movie. Hopefully the phrase "hot dwarves" wont be on my mind the whole movie.


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."




Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 8:10pm

Post #347 of 401 (5202 views)
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Beautiful! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 8:19pm

Post #348 of 401 (5164 views)
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A long-lost ancestor...? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who's to say that by the 15th age, the descendants of Middle-earth won't have discovered space travel?

I always thought the technology in Star Trek seemed a little bit "magical". Tongue

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 18 2011, 8:29pm

Post #349 of 401 (5208 views)
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"We"? [In reply to] Can't Post

See, this is my only beef with you, as wondeful a poster as you are. The Tolkien fandom doesn't have one collective mind that would share the same opinions and imaginations. While you are allowed to have all the opinions you have, and make all the arguments you can come up with, you can't say that your opinion is the only definitive truth that all else must bow to. So being left out of this ambigious "we" really kind of hurts my feelings.

When I read the Hobbit for the first time, I imagined Thorin with black or graying black long beard and hair, and strong, noble, hard and dry features complete with the noble Roman nose. It's an image much closer to Howe's painting than the Michelin Man that is Gimli, mostly inspired by my dreams of the old Scandinavians and their mythology that inspired Tolkien too.

Nice comparision between Thorin and Theoden, btw. Though I'd wonder if Denethor would be a closer comparison. There doesn't seem to be much love lost between Thorin and Gandalf, at least from Thorin's side.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 8:31pm

Post #350 of 401 (5206 views)
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Actors really are chameleons [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, it's clear that Richard, like most other actors, is willing to change hair color, cut hair for length or wear a wig, and all other manner of body changes in order to better portray a character.


And thank you very much for those links, the fashion spread was most enjoyable. Wink

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


R11
Lorien

Jul 18 2011, 8:37pm

Post #351 of 401 (5351 views)
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You said it brother [In reply to] Can't Post

And it's not just LOTR either. The Dwarves in LOTR were simply a very good rendition of the historical convention of what dwarves look like. Having just watched the extended blu-ray versions of the trilogy over again I can say it's why Gimli was one of my favorite characters in PJ's series, since he so well encapsulated that dwarven look. It's quite unfortunate that the powers that be felt that they needed to make most of the 13 in The Hobbit look very little to nothing like dwarves at all. What? No men main characters? Heh, we'll fix that! We'll just make several of them look dwarfish and pretend the rest do... Crazy

It's anti dwarf racism I'm telling you Shocked


ron


Bran
Lorien


Jul 18 2011, 8:39pm

Post #352 of 401 (5289 views)
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Generally very happy [In reply to] Can't Post

but......

I never really bought into the theory that Thorin would be too young. As others have said, it worked well with Frodo. I had no issue with that. I have to say though, I did imagine Thorin as a lot older, and I must admit to being a little concerned.

But Nori's hair really irks me. All the (TORN) staff seemed to talk about it, and when the hair is the main talking point in a character, it's very worrying.

I've never been one for 'cool'. I didn't like Legolas' snowboarding exploits - it took me out of the film, and I feel Nori does the same. I see the dwarves and they look great, but I lose the magic, and the immersion in the world when I see a designer haircut.

It's an annoying negative in what I see otherwise are some very, very good dwarves indeed.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 8:39pm

Post #353 of 401 (5350 views)
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Are you being sarcastic? [In reply to] Can't Post

UnsureI'm not sure if you are being sarcastic it is very difficult to tell. I posted the links just to show how much older they had made him look as Thorin


Ececheira
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 8:43pm

Post #354 of 401 (5303 views)
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Indeed! [In reply to] Can't Post

You may be right - I'm not well known for my subtlety LOL


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 8:50pm

Post #355 of 401 (5236 views)
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This is true [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Te age and worldly weariness. He does not have to look like a seventy year ol to show how troubled he is by all that he as lost.


This is a concern I've really never gotten. World weariness has nothing to do with age. Nor do you need to be old to show how loss has haunted you. In fact I'd even go so far to say that it can be more effective in a slightly younger character, because it's less expected. And it isn't like they didn't age RA up at all, he looks a good ten or more years older than he looks in real life.


Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 8:53pm

Post #356 of 401 (5305 views)
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I have to say that [In reply to] Can't Post

It is how I think of Thorin. If I recall it doesn't say in The Hobbit that he is the oldest it simply says he is the most important. Now I know that in other publications Tolkein said more than that but the image is there in my mind.

I wasn't a fan of Gimli's look it was a little to dough boy for me and I found it distracting. It was as if they were trying to hard.


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 9:05pm

Post #357 of 401 (5319 views)
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NO, I was being serious [In reply to] Can't Post

Actors are chameleons, some moreso than others. That was clear from the links that even in his normal guise he has different looks.

The thanks was for the rather handsome images in the fashion spread, again, not sarcastic, just happy.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 9:09pm

Post #358 of 401 (5302 views)
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Here comes the full body and full Complement of Dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.theonering.net/...full-body-rendering/

I guessed right, his tunic does appear to be a bit shorter than the others.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth

(This post was edited by Garfeimao on Jul 18 2011, 9:09pm)


Rufus
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 9:10pm

Post #359 of 401 (5282 views)
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thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh For clearing that up. And your welcome though the pics don't do a lot for meWink


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 18 2011, 9:15pm

Post #360 of 401 (5253 views)
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Isn't it a photoshop job? [In reply to] Can't Post

Looks like Gloin's body mirrored (and desaturated) and with Oin's belt thrown in.

The proportions are a bit odd - the legs look too short for the arms and shoulders but otherwise a good job.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 9:22pm

Post #361 of 401 (5236 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

That is pretty much how I imagined Thorin. I didn't imagine some lumpy ancient dude with white hair. I imagined a dark haired dwarf with some grey, more than they have on Armitage but not completely grey and I imagined the dwarves in general as more sharp featured, more like little stocky people but to be honest with Fili and Kili being the youngest, in my head, while they were both blond and bearded, I did tend to imagine them as being less stocky or "solid" looking than the older dwarves.

So in my case the changes to these characters really aren't a huge deal because I never imagined them looking like what we ended up with Gimli(who's great I have nothing against Gimli but IMO he actually does look older than I'd think he'd need to being a dwarf in the slightly lower end of middle age). I never imagined Thorin as being ancient and white or grey and I never imagined Fili and Kili as being carbon copies of the older dwarves, in my head they were always thinner for lack of a better word.

Yes they all look different than they did in my head but I still think they look great and have no problem with any of them really. I really think everything that looks in a still picture with no context like "Oh my god they've gone Hollywood!" is going to have a reasonable "in film" explanation which might possibly even heighten the emotion of what is going on.


mykonos
Bree


Jul 18 2011, 9:59pm

Post #362 of 401 (5192 views)
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I understand [In reply to] Can't Post

But what you see as criticizing can just be defending their belief in PJ's Thorin. And vise versa. Laugh


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 10:23pm

Post #363 of 401 (5193 views)
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Looks like... [In reply to] Can't Post

He didn't find the entire beard... Wink

Perhaps McShane has got the other half?


(This post was edited by Gandalf'sMother on Jul 18 2011, 10:23pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 10:25pm

Post #364 of 401 (5204 views)
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Ha... [In reply to] Can't Post

He actually looks significantly BETTER in the flet scene. Far more natural and less pizza-faced. Not sure why they didn't go with this version...


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 10:30pm

Post #365 of 401 (5203 views)
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I also... [In reply to] Can't Post

Think the proportions of the new dwarves are just fine, and are not inconsistent with the books. The lack of proper beards on some, however, are a different story. Tolkien made it rather clear that dwarves have long beards...


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 18 2011, 11:06pm

Post #366 of 401 (5144 views)
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There could be a problem, though... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I see what you're saying about Dwalin and Balin's 'specific' looks, though, but I was talking about proportions and general facial characteristics. Smoother, non-lumpy latex faces, with generally normal body proportions, but longer beards than Dwalin's (and 'not bald), are what I was looking for.

The "Gimli dwarf" looks supremely awkward, is very unnatural, and is just plain difficult to watch. Not to mention the even more bloated LOTR film dwarves linked to somewhere else in this thread.


I can see your point, somewhat, however...

I think the buildup of prosthetics did serve a function beyond just giving the characters a "look." Namely, they served to build the actor's heads up so that they would appear as large as a normal human head when the character was scaled against human-height ones. I think this is rather important...

Take a look at the composite made by chrismortega posted earlier in this thread which includes Gandalf for scale (And please, this is absolutely nothing against the wonderful job you've done, Chris.) You can see that the dwarves which retain more human proportions such as Dori, Fili, Kili, and Dwalin, when scaled to close to the proper height, do in fact look somewhat disconcertingly like merely miniature humans—kind of like the Lilliputian effect, or George Lucas' brownies but at not the same degree of miniaturization. Thorin, on the other hand, does look correct—his head is the same size as Gandalf's—however, the correctness is due to most of his body being hidden. If it were fully revealed, we would find that he is standing on his knees and is in fact the same size as Gandalf.

I'm sure Jackson's effects team must have this whole thing worked out, however the publicity photos do seem to present some problems which indicate to me what we've seen might not be exactly what we get on-screen.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 18 2011, 11:23pm

Post #367 of 401 (5160 views)
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why aren't we worthy? [In reply to] Can't Post

They (TIME) and etc. may be giants as far as printed copies/other forms of news circulation go
but they write for money
we write for loveHeart

(and Mr Crere writes for both, I hope Wink)

I'm beginning to feel like some sort of renegade --- someone get me some Longbottom Leaf, I need relax a bit Tongue

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 19 2011, 12:27am

Post #368 of 401 (5223 views)
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Thorin and Company Wallpaper (my version) [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like the wallpaper y'all put together for us, but I couldn't resist coming up with my own version: http://img824.imageshack.us/.../thorinwallpaper.jpg (the size is my desktop, 1680 x 1050). It's obviously quite similar to what you guys provided for us, but I didn't have much of a choice with good ole' Thorin having all sorts of bits and pieces chopped off in the official photo release! Tongue



(This post was edited by Richie Rich on Jul 19 2011, 12:29am)


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 19 2011, 12:32am

Post #369 of 401 (5164 views)
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Great attempt [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Smile


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 12:33am

Post #370 of 401 (5080 views)
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Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post

If I had socks, they would be knocked off.

Superb work, RR!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Vellamo
Rivendell


Jul 19 2011, 12:43am

Post #371 of 401 (5096 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post

TORn deserved this final revelation hands down. Congrats!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 19 2011, 12:47am

Post #372 of 401 (5125 views)
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I like your version. Very nice. It looks official. [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep up the good work! KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 19 2011, 12:49am

Post #373 of 401 (5140 views)
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Probably should know this... [In reply to] Can't Post

but what's "flet", again? Angelic

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 19 2011, 12:51am

Post #374 of 401 (5102 views)
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Excellent work [In reply to] Can't Post

Very polished composition.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:03am

Post #375 of 401 (5121 views)
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Bravo! That was priceless [In reply to] Can't Post

*wipes away tears of laughter* Best laugh I've had in a while. Thanks RR! Laugh


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:05am

Post #376 of 401 (5170 views)
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Haha! [In reply to] Can't Post

Great comeback, GM! Laugh

And all along we thought he was looking for the Arkenstone. Cool


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 19 2011, 1:10am

Post #377 of 401 (5186 views)
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I find that it helps to not have a idea of what a character should look like [In reply to] Can't Post

Regardless of the physical descriptions given in the books, I'm one of those people who when reading a novel, I try to picture the characters and all I get is silhouettes or nothing. Of course, if that book is made into a movie, when I read the book after the release of its film counterpart, I will probably picture the characters as featured in the film. This was the case with the Harry Potter films, once the first movie came out, Harry, Ron and Hermione became Radcliffe, Grint and Watson when I read the books, as opposed to staying as shadows in my mind's eye.

This is probably why I'm a lot more relaxed than most Tolkienites about the appearance of not only Thorin, but all the Dwarves. Although sometimes not being able to picture a character when you're reading a book can be annoying, it certainly leads to a lack of expectation when that character becomes immortalised on the silver screen. Many of the posters on this board seem to be unable to get past the difference between their Thorin and Pj's Thorin. I simply ask why make a big deal about it? It's not the end of the world if someone's interpretation of a character is different to yours, and just because PJ's Thorin will be appearing in a phenomenally expensive Hollywood film doesn't make it the definative one.

As for the palaver about Ian McShane vs Richard Armitage, if you prefer McShane as Thorin, no-one's stopping you from picturing him when you read the books. To Flagg, no need to get so defensive against those who disagree, they're not attacking your choice, they're simply saying that he's not who they picture as Thorin.


(This post was edited by Spencissimus on Jul 19 2011, 1:13am)


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:20am

Post #378 of 401 (5114 views)
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*mods up* [In reply to] Can't Post

Words of wisdom! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:22am

Post #379 of 401 (5162 views)
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I think you might [In reply to] Can't Post

want to take note of names when you're reading these comments. There are a few people for whom that is a mantra, but I suspect if you really pay attention you might find that it's only a couple who say it frequently, and the rest of those who liked PJ's LOTR have a great deal of variation and disagreement in their opinions about things.

The truth is that majorities and minorities are both made up of individuals. They are not blocks of identical clones. And in the same way that you wouldn't appreciate it if I attributed all of the various obnoxiously-worded pro-GDT comments ever made here to you, neither do others appreciate being lumped in generally with someone who has made equally objectionable PJ-related comments. You're always talking to individuals here, all the more because many people read in threaded mode where responses are poster-specific.

Let's all - on both sides - drop the blanket statements in favor of speaking to the people we're actually speaking to, instead of talking to one individual in the light of everyone else who's ever annoyed us on a topic. Nobody is responsible to answer for the opinions of anyone but him or herself. Smile

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:28am

Post #380 of 401 (5198 views)
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Only because [In reply to] Can't Post

all -volunteer fansites aren't generally considered "legit" in the same way as journalistic or official sites, and very few movie productions recognize fansites in the way that we've just been recognized. It's like Aragorn the king bending the knee to Frodo of the Shire. Not unfitting when all is known, but still...

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 1:31am

Post #381 of 401 (5172 views)
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"Flet" is [In reply to] Can't Post

the word for the Elven tree platforms in Lorien.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Proudfoot
The Shire


Jul 19 2011, 1:39am

Post #382 of 401 (5225 views)
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Great point about Smith. [In reply to] Can't Post

To quote from the show, Matt Smith "looks about 9," but all the 'he's too young' comments stopped right after his first episode. In many ways, his Doctor feels older than any of his 10 predecessors.

I'm hoping Armitage's performance as Thorin will have people forgetting this was ever a debate.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 19 2011, 1:45am

Post #383 of 401 (5214 views)
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It's Kinda MY STYLE to sit back...Smoke alittle Longbottom Leaf and.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Watch,
in aDarkened corner of the Prancing Pony and wait for all THESE histSTORYically CRAZED-Logic POSTs? to settle down.... and take my place in this Thread...After 300PLUS Sized posts...Relax
It's Highly un-likely our Family in NZ will dissapoint.....anyone. It's all great! xoxoxOB


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 19 2011, 1:56am

Post #384 of 401 (5238 views)
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I look at it this way: [In reply to] Can't Post

the people who are actually paying attention to this stuff are the crazed fans like us. That's a relatively small group of people that will inevitably see the movies in the theaters. Most people won't care until the movie comes out. I know I try to get my brother interesting in the production stuff for The Hobbit, but he could care less until he actually goes and sees the movie. Until then, there are going to be loud voices shouting about how this and that should look like this or that. I think most of it was born of the fact that Peter painted himself into a corner with the dwarves in LotR all looking similar, and then you had every single frickin' MMORPG game for 10 years doing dwarf designs exactly the same, including Warhammer, WoW, Dragon Age, etc. That doesn't help in breaking stereotypes of what these guys should look like.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Proudfoot
The Shire


Jul 19 2011, 2:08am

Post #385 of 401 (5118 views)
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Seems about right. [In reply to] Can't Post

As a matter of fact, my folks are in their mid-60s. Thorin, here, looks very much like he could be my dad's contemporary, with very similar amounts of visible aging. Granting my father hasn't been living as an exile most of his life, but he's an active, 'hale and hearty' 65 year old. I think they've really got Thorin pretty close to the mark.


hutch
Rohan


Jul 19 2011, 2:20am

Post #386 of 401 (5144 views)
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undecided [In reply to] Can't Post

i actually have nothing to say about thorin's portrayal at this point, but since it seems this thread contains a post by every Ringer imaginable, i figured i'd get a post in too...

well even if i wasn't quite sold on thorin i guess 11 out of 13 aint bad. (what's up with Kili?!)


(This post was edited by hutch on Jul 19 2011, 2:21am)


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 19 2011, 2:27am

Post #387 of 401 (5085 views)
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Bwah ha ha ha ha! [In reply to] Can't Post

Klingons rock! ... but he doesn't have the gagh and prune juice. *le cry*

I'm pretty satisfied with Thorin, Klingon looking or not. I don't need him to look like the Thorin I imagine from the book. I'm happy to see a different interpretation, and I like Armitage's acting skills, so I'm fine with how he turned out.

I like the dwarf ears. Perhaps they're Klingon/Ferengi hybrids? Wink


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 19 2011, 3:08am

Post #388 of 401 (5107 views)
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Thank you! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
World weariness has nothing to do with age. Nor do you need to be old to show how loss has haunted you. In fact I'd even go so far to say that it can be more effective in a slightly younger character, because it's less expected.


I know this from personal experience. I had to deal with some pretty difficult and dramatic losses in my childhood, and by the time I was 10, I had a world weariness that people noticed all the time. I was constantly asked what was wrong, why I was upset. I was very much a haunted kid. It took me years of therapy and self-exploration to get that look off of my face. I'm sure that many who know me would say that I looked "older" then than I do now, because my internal attitude towards life has changed so much for the positive now that it shows on my face.

Because I've been through that, I've at times felt a little insulted each time I read a post saying that someone young can't portray world weariness as well as someone older. It's kind of like a slap in the face, that my experience and the pain I felt growing up isn't as valid simply because I was young.

I really appreciate you bringing this up, because if you hadn't, I know I eventually would have.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 19 2011, 3:22am

Post #389 of 401 (5126 views)
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I have to say, as much as I find myself having different opinions from yours... [In reply to] Can't Post

It bothers me how many people have been throwing out the phrase "get used to the idea." You have a right to your opinion, and that doesn't mean you don't already know that the cast is what it is and will not likely change unless there's a great emergency of some sort.

For the most part, I like the dwarves, with small amount of niggling concerns here and there. And at the same time, I can totally respect that you have a different opinion.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 19 2011, 3:32am

Post #390 of 401 (5151 views)
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After all, the dwarves did sing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Far over the misty mountains weird.
To dungeons deep and caverns feared.
We must away, ere break of day,
To claim our long-forgotten...beard.

Wink



Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 19 2011, 4:52am

Post #391 of 401 (5076 views)
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Oh yes... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Beard of Durin I was, of course, preserved in a shrine of impervious crystal set in gold and mithril which used to be brought out on Durin's Day and paraded in effigy down the Mountain and through the streets of Dale. In the earlier drafts of the story, it was the Beard which Bilbo ransomed for his share of the treasure, but Tolkien decided that, aside from it being larger than Bilbo, himself, and thus very difficult to conceal, the Dwarves really would have dashed our hero to bits for such an affront. The Arkenstone was Plan B..

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 5:01am

Post #392 of 401 (5004 views)
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Lol! Brilliant! // [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh


Quote
Gandalf's Mother:
Far over the misty mountains weird.
To dungeons deep and caverns feared.
We must away, ere break of day,
To claim our long-forgotten...beard.





Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 5:02am

Post #393 of 401 (5005 views)
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*snert* Plan B. :-D // [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Phibbus:

The Beard of Durin I was, of course, preserved in a shrine of impervious crystal set in gold and mithril which used to be brought out on Durin's Day and paraded in effigy down the Mountain and through the streets of Dale. In the earlier drafts of the story, it was the Beard which Bilbo ransomed for his share of the treasure, but Tolkien decided that, aside from it being larger than Bilbo, himself, and thus very difficult to conceal, the Dwarves really would have dashed our hero to bits for such an affront. The Arkenstone was Plan B..




Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 19 2011, 7:43am

Post #394 of 401 (5031 views)
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That's excellent, Richie Rich [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be an official one it's so good - I like the way you've put the framing and the names in. And matched up the dwarves. And taken the strange glare off Thorin's teeth....

Not sure I'd want a wild-eyed and angry looking man - er, sorry, dwarf - waving a sword at me every time I switch the computer on, but it's a lovely piece of work just the same! Wink


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 19 2011, 8:44am

Post #395 of 401 (5020 views)
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Good point [In reply to] Can't Post

I would also add that Thorin being exiled does not mean he was homeless. He might have had to work harder at least initially than he would have expected to do if he'd remained in the Lonely Mountain, but he obviously was not in poverty when he arrived at Bag End. His clothing was rich and he had a golden harp.

I find it difficult to imagine him as grizzled and careworn as if being exiled led to a nomadic, tramp-like existence where every year was firmly etched on his face. There was an obvious lack of real preparation - mental or practical - for the realities of the quest, or at least the sheer slog of the journey there, where they could expect to live rough for much of the time. This is itself evidence that they were living fairly comfortably, if not at the level that Thorin took as his due.

So he might have been haggard in appearance, but there is no indication that he was within the book. Whereas the book did stress leadership, fighting skills, courage, together with pride, arrogance, and a sense of (rightful) entitllement to his lost inheritance. Those qualities appear to be the ones PJ is highlighting, and from this picture RA can be easily identified as the one with mission and the driving force amongst the motley dwarven crew.

Also I do like the way that PJ has subverted the standard Knights of the Round Table quest with this ragtag bunch of dwarves, plus one hobbit and a wandering wizard.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 19 2011, 9:12am

Post #396 of 401 (5000 views)
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Well i was replying to someone who was in broad agreement [In reply to] Can't Post

So i thought the plural would be appropriate. In any case, while people who hold similar opinions to me might be a minority, i do not believe it to be a minority of one, so i will use 'we' when talking about interpretations of Thorin. It may sound a bit like invoking a fictitious army of supporters, but it isn't really intended as that, more a real rabble of grumbling malcontents.

In terms to your very gracious comment on one of my actual points (i do note with some chagrin that people are more likely to challenge my on matters of grammar than of the actual points and content of my postsUnsureTongue), yes, there is a similarity between Denethor and Thorin's relationship with Gandalf, but the big difference that kind of puts an end to it's effectiveness of a comparison is that Thorin unlike Denethor has not given up the fight, even if they believe they have similar chances of success in winning it: Tolkien very tellingly describes Thorin as an 'heir without hope' in the appendices among other sources. Denethor of course has lost all hope, has withdrawn into despair and ultimately fulfills the logical end of it. With Thorin, he is despairing, but he has not surrendered to it- it would be the height of dishonour to die peacefully while his subjects remain without their home, he must continue fighting in order to defend himself and his people from it. In that way he is similar to the film's Theoden- he is acting in the best interests of his people in accordance with the Northern Theory of courage- that even in the face of ultimate defeat you keep fighting and you fight with honour. In the words of Theoden 'If this is to be our end, then i would have them make such an end as to be worthy of remembrance!'

The reason i use the movie version of Theoden in this comparison rather than the book version is in terms of Theoden's relationship with Gandalf specifically. In the book Theoden is utterly convinced by Gandalf following his rejuvenation by him, in fact he's prepared to do more than Gandalf ever hoped of him ('You do not know your own skill as a healer....'). In the film, once rejuvenated, while Theoden is thankful and hears the advice of Gandalf, he trusts his own wisdom more than Gandalf's. The film's Theoden suspects other motives for Gandalf's interest in him, just like Thorin. While Theoden and Thorin both accept the broad notion of Gandalf's plan, they do not trust him enough to follow it without qualification- Theoden accepts Gandalf's suggestion of leaving Edoras and taking the fight to Saruman but is not prepared to gamble the long term safety of his people and instead of confronting Saruman's hosts in the open field and retreats to Helm's Deep, blocking himself into a last stand, while Thorin accepts Gandalf's plan of stealth but insists that he tags along. You could argue that in doing so, Gandalf wastes time he could have spent convincing the White Council to attack. Had Gandalf been able to make them attack earlier he might have made it to Erebor quicker and perhaps put an end to the self-destructive deadlock between Thorin and the elves and men before the Goblins descended. Of course Tolkien doesn't make quite as clear that this decision kind of 'caused' Thorin's death in the same way that saving Faramir had the knock-on effect of leaving Theoden to die against the Witch King, but you can see the path it might follow.

Dr Death


Bran
Lorien


Jul 19 2011, 10:29am

Post #397 of 401 (5065 views)
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I've just realised where I've seen Balin before [In reply to] Can't Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eamonn_Campbell

Seems he's spent the last 30 years playing with the Dubliners. Should augur well for the dwarf songs......

Wink

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 19 2011, 10:38am

Post #398 of 401 (5052 views)
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I'd also like an explanation to the obvious issue... [In reply to] Can't Post

Why Gandalf doesn't read the runes, even if it's just 'cause it's dark or he didn't have time. Seriously, those runes are hard to miss...


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 19 2011, 11:00am

Post #399 of 401 (5077 views)
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Happy to oblige ;-P // [In reply to] Can't Post

/


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


namarie
Rohan


Jul 19 2011, 12:28pm

Post #400 of 401 (4922 views)
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you forgot to put more white hair :P // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


There is always hope


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 19 2011, 1:06pm

Post #401 of 401 (5984 views)
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Richie Rich you never fail to amaze [In reply to] Can't Post

Its great! Smile Thank you!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...

 
 

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