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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili
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Fantastic Four

Jul 13 2011, 6:57am

Post #401 of 601 (13879 views)
Fili and Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

Uncle Thorin's little boy's!


Jul 13 2011, 7:02am

Post #402 of 601 (13797 views)
Awesome! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am actually happy that Weta didn't go the easy route and just did the worn-out D&D design, making dwarves miniature vikings.

Over the last decades, all fantasy authors and artists have just been coying from each other without ever trying to come up with something new in regards to dwarves.
I am really thrilled to see that PJ and his team are bold enough to re-invent dwarves and smash our old, preconcieved notions about how dwarves are supposed to look (and act) like.

Remember that Eomer when he first saw Gimli thought he might be elvish.

After this, dwarves will never be the same again. Mark my words.

(This post was edited by angelocrator on Jul 13 2011, 7:03am)

Forum Admin / Moderator

Jul 13 2011, 7:02am

Post #403 of 601 (13798 views)
Hahah! Your levity is admirable :D // [In reply to] Can't Post


Eowyn of Penns Woods

Jul 13 2011, 7:06am

Post #404 of 601 (13880 views)
I'm tempted to use "Tur-Ki...with no stuffing!" to remember it. Rather appropriate, IMO. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post



Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Jul 13 2011, 7:17am

Post #405 of 601 (13837 views)
Probably. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves were pretty much pigeon-holed into stereotypical D&D designs, then with the popularity of Gimli, and the rise of games like World of Warcraft, it seems impossible for dwarves to look at all different from what they have been looking like for years now.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

Fantastic Four

Jul 13 2011, 7:20am

Post #406 of 601 (13784 views)
oh no!...I don't see any problems with the nose. [In reply to] Can't Post

They could well be aiming to keep the movie real nose job or not.Sly

Justice League

Jul 13 2011, 7:24am

Post #407 of 601 (13892 views)
it's not that he's a good lookin' guy... [In reply to] Can't Post

... it's that he (aidan turner) looks about as much like a dwarf in that photo as orlando bloom.

there's more to the trasformation into a dwarf than slapping a couple of altered spock ears, not shaving for a few days, throwing on some cosplay d&d gear, and standing in front of a big fan.

i don't care how many good lookin' guys are in the movies (i love that lotr has so many female fans), and i don't want 13 gimlis running around (loved all the different looks of the other dwarves we've seen so far). you can fill the hobbit with beautiful elves and handsome laketown men as far as i care. but a hobbit should look like a hobbit, a goblin should look like a goblin, and a dwarf should look like a dwarf.


Jul 13 2011, 7:54am

Post #408 of 601 (13787 views)
(On Richie Rich's version.....) [In reply to] Can't Post

Curiously enough, that does make Kili look much more dwarf-like! Trouble is, it makes Fili look a bit skinny! Wink

OK. I've slept on it, read 17 (17?!!!!) pages of comments here and my reaction is..... er.....

I wish I could see a high res picture as we had with the others, to get a better idea of the costumes.

Fili looks fine to me. Kili looks very good in himself, just nothing like a dwarf, or at least, nothing like I'd imagined a dwarf to be. Don't understand why so many people think he looks like an elf, he's got far too much facial hair for that.

Oh well... I'm not giving up yet, this is just one picture and after the first surprise, I'm getting used to him and once we see him acting, and interacting with the others..... The end is going to be heartbreaking....

Wonder how long before the next dwarves appear. More dwarves.... Three (perhaps?) more dwarves.....


Jul 13 2011, 7:55am

Post #409 of 601 (13819 views)
How's this for a comparison? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill and Ted or Fili and Kili?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)

Fantastic Four

Jul 13 2011, 8:31am

Post #410 of 601 (13793 views)
Hair: Gloin and Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

I've found myself comparing Gloin's hair with Kili's -- the latter having caused quite a stir; the former, barely a murmur. Yet how different are they really?

Both dwarves seem to like their hair long, and they like to wear it loose. By 2011 standards, Gloin's hair doesn't look especially 'attractive', although, if these movies were being made during a 'big hair' era (somewhere between the bouffant '60s, through the Bee Gees '70s into the new-romantic '80s), I wonder whether some might consider it to be too 'straight out of the salon', much in the way that some are saying about Kili's hair now (not helped by the breeze-teased look in the only photo we have).

I appreciate that Gloin has a lot more classic-dwarf about him due to prosthetics and general build, but, just to focus on the hair, how substantial is the difference between Gloin and Kili really? Gloin is Barry Gibb, Kili is Jennifer Aniston -- but then, if Jennifer Aniston had been a celebrity during the '60's or '70s, she'd have probably been Barry Gibb, too.

(Here's the 'dwarves so far' image posted earlier to aid comparison: http://i51.tinypic.com/2nlbt3s.jpg.)

Don't know really where I was going with this -- only to wonder out loud why Kili's hair has caused much more noise than the no-noise that Gloin's caused, other than being viewed by our 'standards of the day' eyes.

(This post was edited by RoseCotton on Jul 13 2011, 8:35am)


Jul 13 2011, 8:36am

Post #411 of 601 (13655 views)
Re-inventing the Dwarf [In reply to] Can't Post

The only reason there is so much debate on this is simply that not only do most fans think of Gimli as the very definition of a Dwarf, but the filmmakers painted themselves into a corner when they made the 7 Dwarf Lords and the other Dwarfs at the Council of Elrond look exactly the same as Gimli.

It is unfortunate that there wasn't a little more variety then, because we would all be more open minded if Dwarves didn't already appear to have a set uniformity to them established in PJ's Middle-earth.

So it appears they are trying to break that mold, and I kind of like the notion that maybe the appearances will show a generational progression of sorts. The older, more senior members of the party will resemble Gimli, especially daddy dearest and uncle, and some of the other older dwarves will most likely also appear similar in size and look. But we've also seen a dramatic departure with Nori and Ori, while Dori looks halfway inbetween. Could this variety be age related, or job related, or clan related? Not sure, but maybe we'll get a bit of story devoted to these differences. After all, Bilbo will be on the road for a long time with these Dwarves, I can't imagine he won't ask questions about this weapon or that hair cut, or whatever.

And this thread has been amazing to watch, can't wait to see what happens after Thorin's big reveal.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,

The orange stripey One

Cruise to Middle-earth


Jul 13 2011, 8:40am

Post #412 of 601 (13734 views)
Just wanted to say [In reply to] Can't Post

I really love these dwarves - especially AT as Kili and I love even more that they are challenging some people's views of what a dwarf should look like.

Bring on Thorin Oakenshield, I say!!!


Jul 13 2011, 8:45am

Post #413 of 601 (13783 views)
I think it's just the 'shock of the new', really.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... on the line-up of them all together they start to become 'these are the dwarves' and not just 'oh my goodness!'.


Jul 13 2011, 9:11am

Post #414 of 601 (13663 views)
Amen... [In reply to] Can't Post

In Reply To
The only reason there is so much debate on this is simply that not only do most fans think of Gimli as the very definition of a Dwarf, but the filmmakers painted themselves into a corner when they made the 7 Dwarf Lords and the other Dwarfs at the Council of Elrond look exactly the same as Gimli.

It is unfortunate that there wasn't a little more variety then, because we would all be more open minded if Dwarves didn't already appear to have a set uniformity to them established in PJ's Middle-earth.

No matter what I feel about the picture, I think you are spot on. In terms of Middle Earth Dwarves, most people will be expecting 13 Gimli's because we've had no indication that Dwarves can look any different. Other people have mentioned it here - the sterotype of Dwarves across fantasy has pretty much been stuck in the realms of Gimli.. or something like miniture Vikings (I recall someone wrote that above)... I guess at the end of the day with 13 Dwarves on screen - it will help to have certain things make them stand out. This doesn't ruin the movies - at least not for me anyways

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Jul 13 2011, 9:18am

Post #415 of 601 (13571 views)
That's an idea [In reply to] Can't Post

perhaps the younger the dwarf, the smaller the beard. After all, both have a beard in the photo, Kili's beard just smaller.

I do like the look of Fili, it feels right to me. However I don't exactly like the look of Kili, he doesn't look very dwarvish (not because of the beard), so slim that he looks taller! I guess we only know for sure when we see them in action.

Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'.


Jul 13 2011, 9:30am

Post #416 of 601 (13676 views)
they [In reply to] Can't Post

are fine with me as long as they dont say stupid stuff like "It's the Dwarves that go swimming with little, hairy women" Smile

Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Justice League

Jul 13 2011, 9:36am

Post #417 of 601 (13511 views)
ey people here! [In reply to] Can't Post

in lotr we travelled across middle earth but only visited one dwarf realm that was actually some kind of tomb (Moria), instead of being too much critic i suggest take things like this:

we are not watching some promo photos, we actually are travelling around middle earth again in another direction we havenīt seen before, is just that we have found the party of dwarves sonner than we expected, not the movies, we are actually on the road ahead to Erebor wich is the home of this race and all his different clans, imagine we had saw the hobbit first, then looking at gimli it should looked right because we had known gloin before,

orcs of moria looked different, uruks were different, but all were orcs after all, and im not toling about the age, wich clearly makes a difference, maybe i feel we should wait to see the party togheter, not that photo of the silouetes of 13 gimlis following gandalf, ah , and fili looks cool



Jul 13 2011, 9:53am

Post #418 of 601 (13739 views)
Can someone with Photoshop magic put Gandalf in the line-up??! [In reply to] Can't Post

For size reference... Here's a pic if you need one... http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/gandalf/pictures/gandalf28.jpg



Jul 13 2011, 10:14am

Post #419 of 601 (13763 views)
Hi-res [In reply to] Can't Post

Still no hi-res picture? I want to see the details!


Jul 13 2011, 10:18am

Post #420 of 601 (13582 views)
Everyone here seems too Hasty.... "to deal out Death and Judgement?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay opinions are fine , but HONESTLY...I'm prefectly fine to just sit back and wait for all of the next Reveals...Thisn't looking like a Cartoon-version of TH anymore.

For all we know? these Shots are just of our Dwaves in their Final "Battle of the 5 Armies gear!"
after they have raided the Lonely Mountain when Smaug is no more
wearing their Final WarBattle Dress?...So that said..

they could be ALL Canon-dressed, Color-cordinated HOODS like the Book, at BagEnd...They could have two sets of Clothes packed in their bags (maybe..you Think?) on their ponys? I tend to think if they came marching through Hobbiton dressed like? that Half of the Halflings of Hobbiton would be Banging on the DOOR, feeling pretty threathed, Riots in the Streets?

I don't trust that shot in Empire MAG...it is a composite...not the Final version (was it a marketing diversion tactic?) Maybe their wardobe evolves as they get more and More Filty...cause none got to take a Shower in Mirkwood?, (even though Bombur did take a Bath,... and look that, did to him?) If they showed up at Thandrial's Halls dressed like that,
I'd throw them into Deepest Dungeon TOO! ......xoxoOB


Jul 13 2011, 10:23am

Post #421 of 601 (13468 views)
Agree totally .... [In reply to] Can't Post



Jul 13 2011, 10:42am

Post #422 of 601 (13580 views)
Frustrating, isn't it... [In reply to] Can't Post

... one tiny detail which I think I can see, by enlarging the picture and lightening it, is that Kili seems to be wearing something blue on the front of his costume, also on the shoulder just below his ear. It made me wonder if there's more colour on the costumes than we're seeing in these dark photos:

Best detachable party hood, perhaps! Wink

Fantastic Four

Jul 13 2011, 10:43am

Post #423 of 601 (13689 views)
Many thanks for your defence through the night [In reply to] Can't Post

My original comment was knocked out as a kind of spontaneous remark without the intention that it was going to create so much debate. I'm wholly with you on this though Phibbus- there is very little reason for excessive delineation between dwarves that will just chew up screentime. Personally if it was me adapting this film (and i know that few on this board would approve of that) i would be tempted to break the dwarves down by families with a single spokesman for their opinion in any given scene (such a spokesman may change from one scene to another, but whoever it is will speak for the group). Essentially, the only really 'dramatic' dwarves are those who are important to the plot or who have been referenced in the prior film, so obviously Thorin, Balin (given both his significance as 'second in command' and for his significance from FotR's Moria sequence), Gloin (being Gimli's father) and Fili and Kili (though to be honest in terms of unique characters, they only really count as one- they come as a pair almost without exception during the story). Ori and Bombur have the potential to stand out as individuals, but they don't need to take up great lengths of dramatic time, and it is pretty obvious what you use to identify them- Bombur is notably obese (being a major part of his role as comic relief) and Ori is a bit of a nerd by dwarvish standards, both things that can be done with minimal dialogue through their behavior. Dori, Nori, Bifur, Bofur, Dwalin and Oin do not need much in the way of personal identification- they do need a line or two just to give them a bit of identity but fundamentally they are filler or the 'vox pop' of the company- the audience does not really need to be able to tell which is which (just like they don't have to be able to tell which is which in the apostles).

While i didn't make a point of noting it during my recent skim read of The Hobbit, Tolkien certainly does not overburden us with details on characters. Beyond their initial introductions (and even then he doesn't necessarily identify each one individually, particularly when they start arriving in groups of two and three) only Thorin, Balin, Dori and Bombur actually get individual lines (Fili might get a couple- especially around the boat incident, but generally they like the other 'power pair' of Oin and Gloin are characterised 'as a team'). Therefore i do hope that PJ won't get too bogged down in making sure each and every one of them gets equal development- there is a distinct pecking order in terms of who gets the lions share and PJ would be a fool not to recognise the wisdom in that.

Dr Death


Jul 13 2011, 11:13am

Post #424 of 601 (13491 views)
To be fair, DrDeath [In reply to] Can't Post

.. we don't know that they haven't done exactly what you say, or something like it. Most of the character delineation is in the writing and we know nothing about that at all. I can't imagine that they're going to want to slow the action down by giving each dwarf a developed character study, backstory and so on. It's a balance between having an undistinguished mass bumbling along behind Bilbo and Gandalf and having 13 individuals we can at least tell apart.

In the early days there was speculation here about how many dwarves would be cast. Surely not the full 13? Would some be female? and so on. Well, they surprised all the doubters by sticking to the book and casting 13 male dwarves. Then they had to decide what they would look like. They could have gone 'off the peg' and had them all roughly the same, with different coloured hoods but they've gone for 13 individuals. That still doesn't tell us how far each individual dwarf will be distinguished in the writing but I'm sure some will play a bigger part than others and we will get to know the ones we need to know, as and when we need to know them.


Jul 13 2011, 11:26am

Post #425 of 601 (13663 views)
Isn't it too soon for releasing these images ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean there is a good 1 and a half year left until the release of the first film !!! Shocked

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