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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Fili and Kili

architecthis
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 5:31pm

Post #1 of 601 (28348 views)
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Fili and Kili Can't Post

http://social.entertainment.msn.com/movies/blogs/the-hitlist-blog.aspx?feat=2001455c-fe15-47c0-9c93-321e454c7f80


(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jul 13 2011, 3:33am)


talkingmongoose
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 5:32pm

Post #2 of 601 (20318 views)
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Haha [In reply to] Can't Post

I was 9 seconds too late! I think they look great. Different, but great.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 5:34pm

Post #3 of 601 (19690 views)
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Whoa!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



architecthis
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 5:34pm

Post #4 of 601 (20039 views)
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IDK [In reply to] Can't Post

These are the first two I'm a little worried about, Kili looks downright elvish to me...

I'm not going to judge until I see them in action tho


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 5:35pm

Post #5 of 601 (19932 views)
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Then Again [In reply to] Can't Post

They are the youngest of the group..


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 5:40pm

Post #6 of 601 (19956 views)
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Now I understand PJ's take on Thorin Oakenshield [In reply to] Can't Post

The Incredible Hunk.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Leviathan's Bane
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 5:40pm

Post #7 of 601 (19828 views)
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I've got a feeling... [In reply to] Can't Post

...That these two rascals are the new Merry-Pippin duo for The Hobbit. Wink


"So knights are mythical!" said the younger and less experienced dragons. "We always thought so."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, "Farmer Giles of Ham"


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 5:41pm

Post #8 of 601 (19521 views)
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makes sense.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I like it


Leviathan's Bane
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 5:43pm

Post #9 of 601 (20036 views)
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Elvishness... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think (I may be wrong) you're getting Kili's elvish look from his long, straight hair. I actually kind of like it, becuase it's a sort of rebel/youth dwarf look. That might not be the way they take Kili's character, but I'm betting he'll be spirited Cool


"So knights are mythical!" said the younger and less experienced dragons. "We always thought so."

- J.R.R. Tolkien, "Farmer Giles of Ham"


Dwimbruk
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 5:45pm

Post #10 of 601 (19671 views)
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hmmm... [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree, Kili doesn't look very dwarvish at all. But then, should we expect all dwarves to be fat? Aren't any of them allowed to look cool?

And I do like Fili's dual swords...


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 5:46pm

Post #11 of 601 (19626 views)
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Least "Dwarvish"-looking of the buch thus far... [In reply to] Can't Post

Rather undecided about these...at least Nori and Ori look like caricatures of "Dwarves"...

Still, sure they'll grow on me...

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 5:47pm

Post #12 of 601 (19800 views)
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I like differentiation and variety, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, now, I understand that Fili and Kili are the youngest of the lot, but...a goatee and a five-o'clock shadow?

Appreciate the lack of prosthetics here, but give these kids some beards!


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 5:47pm

Post #13 of 601 (19557 views)
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I think the cameraman [In reply to] Can't Post

must have done something which Fili found amusing, but ticked Kili off, judging by their expressions Tongue


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 5:49pm

Post #14 of 601 (19753 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

It is definitely the hair and thin waist line but given these are the younger dwarves it makes sense..

the look on Fili's face is priceless


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 5:50pm

Post #15 of 601 (19677 views)
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You're probably right about [In reply to] Can't Post

it being the long, straight hair that gives Kili an elvish air. The bow/quiver adds to the impression too.


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 5:50pm

Post #16 of 601 (19594 views)
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Skinny Dwarves? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure how I feel about that. It just looks wrong. I guess they all had to be skinny at some point, and these are the two youngest.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 5:57pm

Post #17 of 601 (19524 views)
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This made me laugh. [In reply to] Can't Post

..."neither being able to imagine the fate which lies before them."

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 5:57pm

Post #18 of 601 (19493 views)
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BIG EARS!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Why are their ears so stupidly big?? Have we seen everyone now? Sept.. Balin or Bofur.. whichever one wasn't in Bag End...


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 5:58pm

Post #19 of 601 (19521 views)
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Definitely NOT what i expected [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili looks like Spanish dancer Joaquin Cortez with pointy ears, not dwarfish at all. But they surely look like they'll be the Merry and Pipin of the Hobbit. They look cool though. But that's not too dwarfish.Unsure


(This post was edited by rings7 on Jul 12 2011, 6:03pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 12 2011, 5:59pm

Post #20 of 601 (19273 views)
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Nope [In reply to] Can't Post

Still need Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Dwalin, Balin, and Thorin.


Evernight
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:00pm

Post #21 of 601 (19377 views)
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Are there L'oreal ads in these movies? [In reply to] Can't Post

First thing I don't quite like of what we've seen so far: they don't look like dwarves. Not a problem though, it could be just a bad picture.

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...


Turambar
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:01pm

Post #22 of 601 (19368 views)
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I have a feeling [In reply to] Can't Post

that they'll reveal Thorin and Balin last as they seem to be made out to be the two most influencial dwarves in the group

This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:02pm

Post #23 of 601 (19137 views)
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Sorry, I meant that we've seen them in the Empire pictures...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 12 2011, 6:05pm

Post #24 of 601 (19229 views)
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Got it [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been avoiding that picture since they started releasing these high-quality photos because I don't want to spoil the reveal! :)


maut
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:06pm

Post #25 of 601 (19418 views)
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Great as usual. One question *SPOILER ALERT* [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
neither being able to imagine the fate which lies before them


Does that mean they' ll be killed as in the book?

Far over the misty mountains cold

To dungeons deep and caverns old

We must away ere break of day

To seek the pale enchanted gold.
__________________________________
...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party

________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:07pm

Post #26 of 601 (13608 views)
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Their "fate" is gonna be a heartbreaker... [In reply to] Can't Post

..If they're entering the adventure with youthful enthusiasm. There's gonna be a very harsh, hard-to-watch scene toward the end...


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 12 2011, 6:09pm

Post #27 of 601 (13478 views)
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Crumbs! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:10pm

Post #28 of 601 (13531 views)
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What the ....??? [In reply to] Can't Post

they look like a couple of guys modelling medieval attire !!!


droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 6:19pm

Post #29 of 601 (13421 views)
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I have to agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not one to complain. I generally like what PJ comes up with. But Killi is down right terrible! Other than the large ears he looks 100% human. I am all for variety but they should at least look like they belong to the same race. But he doesn't. Unless his daddy got busy with a human or elf.

And I don't buy the " it's be cause they are young" argument either. Because by that logic all dwarves start out pretty and as they age they get dwarf like? Come on!Unsure

At the very least they have sweet weapons.

(This post was edited by droidsocket on Jul 12 2011, 6:22pm)


kiwifan
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 6:20pm

Post #30 of 601 (13452 views)
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yeah, mine is broken already [In reply to] Can't Post

at the very thought of their fate! They look so lovable (Fili) and downright gorgeous (Kili) --- quite undwarvish in my opinion but cute as anything (hah, now I'm outing myself as a female not impervious to male charm, right Wink). But perhaps they are indeed Dwarvish, in a 'rebellious youth' kind of way. After Oin and Glóin who embody Dwarvishness as I always pictured it, these two certainly are different --- but I hope they won't be like Merry and Pippin humour-wise since those two are Hobbits, after all, and I wouldn't like their particular brand of humour repeated in Dwarves. But I'm so looking forward to seeing what PJ and Co. are going to do with Fili and Kili, and so not looking forward to crying my eyes out...

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 6:21pm

Post #31 of 601 (13252 views)
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yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili looks like a human with a wig, is he even wearing prosthetics? His nose looks like the actor's


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:22pm

Post #32 of 601 (13335 views)
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I think they'll be the Legolas and Aragorn of the film. With Thorin as Boromir? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


DanielLB
Immortal

Jul 12 2011, 6:24pm

Post #33 of 601 (13429 views)
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Hi-res [In reply to] Can't Post

Anybody have a hi-res picture to have a better look? Cheers!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:24pm

Post #34 of 601 (13358 views)
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Don't forget they'll be short... [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybe they'll look more dwarvish when stood next to a human or elf...


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 6:25pm

Post #35 of 601 (13280 views)
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maybe dwarves don't grow beards till they become adults [In reply to] Can't Post

and it's Kili's 18th bday when they leave, I dunno


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:27pm

Post #36 of 601 (13287 views)
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I predict... [In reply to] Can't Post

Aidan Turner will go A-list. Studios will start now to sign him up for big movie projects that begin filming from about next spring onwards (while he's still relatively cheap), and movies he's in will be released every three or four months thereafter...

What do you think the odds are?


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:27pm

Post #37 of 601 (13321 views)
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but thorin's sister was not an elf or a human :P [In reply to] Can't Post

 


renzn
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:27pm

Post #38 of 601 (13317 views)
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Big guy, tough spirit, soft heart [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a big man but my heart melts when I see my child aching in pain. My heart ached when Théoden wept at the loss of his son Theodred. He said no parent should have to bury their child. I knew Théoden would die in the ROTK, but it didn't affect me watching the movie because he was just another man passing after a long life. Out of the LOTR characters, I enjoyed the interaction between Merry and Pippin most. I didn't like seeing Merry hurt when being carried by the Uruks. I truly felt happy when Merry and Pippin were reunited on the Pelennor field and in the movie Pippin said he knew Merry would find him.

I have no illusions Kili and Fili will have the same effect on this grandfather. I hate to see youth buried by their elders.

I’m a bit taken back by the short beard and straight hair of Kili, but it doesn’t matter to me. I just can’t wait to see those two characters youthful banter. It’ll bring a sense of hope when many situations (trolls, Goblins, Spiders, Smaug) seem bleak


nobofthepony
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:27pm

Post #39 of 601 (13331 views)
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personalities based on "audition sheet" [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay on the audition sheet, it says that Fili is the one who "feels the weight" and Kili is more carefree...yet the lines in that supposedly official audtion sheet reversed those.

So it looks like from this picture that Kili is the brooding one and Fili is the quick-witted playful one. Maybe they just reversed the two names and personalities? I know you can't tell everything from a photo but it looks like they're trying to put some of their characters into the pose...


Gimli1252
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:28pm

Post #40 of 601 (13346 views)
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ahh...so aragorn will be in the hobbit after all...!!!? [In reply to] Can't Post

 Whaaat...???oh just a minute it's kili...
ok let's talk serious now...they look great, both of them, but i would like a sign of a beard for kili not a fluff..
also for the bow, i expected that one of them will has one cause they have the best vision among the dwarves...

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


Radagast_the_Brown
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:30pm

Post #41 of 601 (13190 views)
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As expected [In reply to] Can't Post

they're the younger, "hunkier" looking Dwarves. They've been pretty unorthodox overall so far, but I think most of the remaing ones will look decidedly more "traditional" so maybe I'll appreciate these two more in retrospect.

All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you...


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 6:30pm

Post #42 of 601 (13287 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's pretty clear they're going for Thorin as Aragorn in TH...which makes sense, given that the characters are reflections of each other, (with Aragorn really acting as a thematic "correction" on Thorin as well), while the "Merry & Pippin" comparison for Kili & Fili comparison seems apt.

Judging from the casting, that pic and what little info we have, I assume Kili will be the comparatively "serious", dependable one ALA Merry, and Fili will be the one who's constantly getting into trouble ALA Pippin...

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:30pm

Post #43 of 601 (13139 views)
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They do [In reply to] Can't Post

look like they could be in Mens Vogue of Middle-Earth! Look at Kili's hair! A bit high on the shampoos and conditioners are we? All in all a very good(if not stylish) example of young dwarves.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 6:30pm

Post #44 of 601 (13260 views)
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So [In reply to] Can't Post

The "Orlando" of TH, then? Tongue

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 6:31pm

Post #45 of 601 (13249 views)
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Not happy with this [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm all for pushing the envelope a bit but this is nowhere close to how Tolkien described the characters. :-(


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:32pm

Post #46 of 601 (13586 views)
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WHAT THE... [In reply to] Can't Post

THEY LOOK SO WEIRD! they are nothing like I imagined,are they even where any of the dwarf make up ( e.g. nose and ears)? And where the hell are there beards? Yeah, agree Kili does look elvish and I'm also starting to get worried, I pray that my current opinon might change because Fili and kKli are my favourite of the dwarves and at the moment I think Weta have made a HUGE mistake...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


willowing
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 6:32pm

Post #47 of 601 (13248 views)
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Fili and Kili... [In reply to] Can't Post

If any of the dwarfs we have seen thus far looked liked Gimli I would be very disappointed. I think personality, heritage, size(big, small, short, tall, lanky) age, experience was considered when creating these characters for The Hobbit. Smile

They are so different and I like it.Sly

As one poster said earlier the fate of Fili and Kili will be a tear jerker.Unsure


mykonos
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:34pm

Post #48 of 601 (13194 views)
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What I get from the pic... [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili looks like the grounded one, and Kili looks like he could get a little out of control. Fili looks like he could be saying "alright, let's scope out the situation" while Kili saying "LET'S GET 'EM!"

It's their expressions that is a little confusing Laugh


(This post was edited by mykonos on Jul 12 2011, 6:35pm)


Evernight
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:35pm

Post #49 of 601 (13159 views)
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According to HoME dwarves are born with beards. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:37pm

Post #50 of 601 (13156 views)
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He didn't really describe Fili and Kili, did he? [In reply to] Can't Post

Except to say that they were "younger."



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Eldaria
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:37pm

Post #51 of 601 (13837 views)
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disappointing [In reply to] Can't Post

Nori's reveal was bad enough, but seeing what they've come up with for Kili is heart-breaking. This is too far removed from what it should be. Look at side by side pictures of Kili next to Gimli ..... there is no connection whatsoever. They should at least look like they've come from the same universe. When things spin off into absurd story lines or unlikely characterizations, such as this, it's called jumping the shark.

Words really fail me, but 'sold out' come to mind. I can only hope that this is some twisted joke being played on us.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 6:38pm

Post #52 of 601 (13876 views)
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Doesn't one of Kili or Fili lose their beard [In reply to] Can't Post

because it's full of spider web? Maybe that's post spider Kili

I wonder if the other dwarves will make fun of the pretty dwarf


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 6:42pm

Post #53 of 601 (13864 views)
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Agreed, if the women dwarves have beards, the young men surely should too// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:44pm

Post #54 of 601 (13787 views)
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It looks like [In reply to] Can't Post

they have some stubble as if they used their nice sharp swords to shave Wink

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


veldrin
Registered User

Jul 12 2011, 6:44pm

Post #55 of 601 (13788 views)
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Kili might be a bit rash [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that Kili looks like he will be the Leeroy Jenkins of the Dwarves.


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:47pm

Post #56 of 601 (14085 views)
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SOME ONE PLEASE PHOTOSHOP! [In reply to] Can't Post

Can sombody please photoshop them so they can join the other five dwarves? it would help me put their look into perspective considerablyand help me get used to them...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Nesse
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 6:48pm

Post #57 of 601 (13738 views)
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WoW [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought if the female audience were gonna get some eye candy it would be from Bard, Thandruil, Lego etc I never thought hobbits or dwarves are the type of race you would drool over...was I wrong. Top marks to PJ and co for making something I thought wasnt possible....sexy dwarves.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:49pm

Post #58 of 601 (14035 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I just clicked the thread to post the same thing!!! We need Paul to so some more dwarven magic!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:49pm

Post #59 of 601 (13784 views)
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I like it very much!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush
But seriously...stick a blond beard on Bill S. Preston, Esquire, and there's Fili!



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 6:50pm

Post #60 of 601 (13663 views)
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I liked every dwarf they revealed, untill now... :( // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Gimli1252
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:50pm

Post #61 of 601 (13798 views)
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in the name of god... [In reply to] Can't Post

aidan turner had a ''long'' beard before production, and they decide to shave him ...???why... because he didn't look dwarvish enough...???

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 6:53pm

Post #62 of 601 (13652 views)
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That's probably right [In reply to] Can't Post

If they are portrayed as somewhat superficial and vain, it is likely that they shaved, not that they can't grow their beards any longer.

The strange thing is that Turner's natural beard in the production videos was much thicker than this!


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:55pm

Post #63 of 601 (13703 views)
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Balin and Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah i agree, they are really going to have to make Balin and Thorin( especially Thorin) look fantastic becuase as you say they are both the most influencial of all the dwarves and probabaly the most well known...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


KateTheHobbit
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 6:55pm

Post #64 of 601 (13699 views)
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Well..... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been extremely happy with all of the Dwarves thus far. And like a lot of people on here, these are the first two that I am hesitant about. I agree about the almost-Elvish look. Which is quite unsettling, for a Dwarf. But again as most have already said, I do understand that these two are the youngest, and probably the "Wild Child" (or "Children", lol) of the group.

I do admire that they are making each of the Dwarves look decidedly different from each other. In my opinion, each of the Dwarves thus far has their own distinct "look", while still being fundamentally Dwarvish. Personally, while these two definitely look different, I feel like they lack the basic, necessary Dwarvish-ness. So yeah, all told, I'm not a huge fan of this. BUT, I trust PJ and the whole crew on this. If there personalities are at least handled appropriately, I'm sure everything will be fine.

SPOILERS BELOW!!!

On a side note, I do think that -- if handled well -- their deaths are going to be absolutely heartbreaking. If they are portrayed as the young, enthusiastic, new-to-the-world-of-adventure young'uns (which seems to be the case, going by the picture description), it will be crushing to see them die at the very end of this big adventure of theirs. I really hope this is done well. It can have a HUGE emotional impact if it's done right. And it bears repeating, I trust PJ to handle it well.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 6:56pm

Post #65 of 601 (13664 views)
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My feelings exactly, Estel... [In reply to] Can't Post

I can even get behind Nori's hairstyle. I'm even working with the "men in black" colors--no one in color except the dark burgundy. But this heart throb dwarf look really goes very contrary to how I've always imagined The Hobbit to be. I expect Richard Armitage's look will be similar. Too bad, because though I'd had initial doubts I was trying to let him convince me otherwise.

Permanent address: Into the West





RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 6:58pm

Post #66 of 601 (13522 views)
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Orlando Who? :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 6:59pm

Post #67 of 601 (13744 views)
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Yech! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm hoping the filmmakers overlook that little detail, if they decide to show any of the dwarves' family life. The idea of giving birth to a bearded baby gives me the jibbly wibblies.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:03pm

Post #68 of 601 (13620 views)
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Yeah,Im not fully convinced either... [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah,Im not fully convinced either,their look is clearly not going down too well with the majority of the TORN users,but i'm now actually give Weta the benfit of the doubt and hopefully it will work in the movies.... I'm really looking foward to what their going to do with Bombur though!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 7:04pm

Post #69 of 601 (13744 views)
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I've had a completely different reaction to each of the three photos. [In reply to] Can't Post

The first one, frankly, left me cold. Especially Nori's yellow brick road, we welcome you to Munchkinland, hair.

The second one, of Oin and Gloin, was thrilling. I loved everything about it.

This one isn't *quite* what I expected from dwarves, but as I've said elsewhere, as long as the character and the role is written right, I really don't care what they look like.

(And I freely admit, my X chromosomes are enjoying themselves very much right now. ROWR! Laugh)



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Rachamatazz
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 7:04pm

Post #70 of 601 (13452 views)
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They look good... [In reply to] Can't Post

...although Kili is possibly the thinnest dwarf in existence. I like how they don't all have axes; those swords look just as lethal...

Not all those who wander are lost.


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 7:05pm

Post #71 of 601 (13678 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

If anything gives me the jibbly wibblies it's the thought of a naked bearded dwarf woman (looking almost exactly like a male dwarf and probably sounding like one as well) on her back squeezing out a baby.

I can never erase that from my poor mind.




Nesse
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 7:06pm

Post #72 of 601 (13628 views)
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I want to know ... [In reply to] Can't Post

what takes places 60 years in the future to make dwarves go from the pics weve just seen to the way Gimli looked in LotR.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 7:07pm

Post #73 of 601 (13572 views)
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Don't the arrows look REALLY oversized? [In reply to] Can't Post

Like they wouldn't even work because they are far too large and heavy?

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:08pm

Post #74 of 601 (13555 views)
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New poll [In reply to] Can't Post

I've put up a new poll where you can vote on how much you like( or do not like) the PJ versions of Kili and Fili.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:09pm

Post #75 of 601 (13451 views)
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Arrows [In reply to] Can't Post

Are dwarves even tall enough to use and aim a bow and arrow ???


mutelock
Bree

Jul 12 2011, 7:10pm

Post #76 of 601 (12717 views)
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Hobbits use them... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Bound
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 7:11pm

Post #77 of 601 (12956 views)
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emmm... WOW... [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili just looks silly. I mean I guess dwarfs have to grow their beards but he looks plain silly, and his head looks wrong for the body !!

Fili is fine...

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 7:12pm

Post #78 of 601 (12852 views)
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Someone transported tribbles into the storage bay. [In reply to] Can't Post

Serious answer, though, is that there isn't any particular reason, is there, why all dwarves have to look the same. Oin and Gloin do have a similar look to Gimli.

And perhaps, since this movie will have so many more dwarves, they decided to go minimalist with the prosthetics and the other time-consuming makeups.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 12 2011, 7:17pm

Post #79 of 601 (12774 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Are dwarves even tall enough to use and aim a bow and arrow ???


Maybe not a 7-foot English warbow, but Tolkien specifically mentions the dwarves using bows in Mirkwood (Beorn provides the arrows).


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:18pm

Post #80 of 601 (12827 views)
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This is how I feel. The dwarves shouldn't look the same, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

should look as if they were born of the same race. Kili looks elvish, to me too.

This is a still photo. I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind that I'll forget all of this when the movie is on the screen. But for now, this is the first dwarf with whom I'm disappointed in his look.

Permanent address: Into the West





Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:20pm

Post #81 of 601 (12861 views)
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Dwarf women giving birth... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for sharing that lovely thought with us, we are are all now deeply disturbed now you have planted that image it in our brains aswell... Ewwwwwww, LOL!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 7:22pm

Post #82 of 601 (12785 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Want another one? Wink

Try picturing two dwarfs making the baby in the first place. Crazy



droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 7:22pm

Post #83 of 601 (12844 views)
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Thorin will look more like these then the rest [In reply to] Can't Post

And my theory behind it is PJ and company want us viewers to connect with these three dwarves the most because of how their stories end. I think they feel the emotional connection to their end would be hindered if the look too "dwarfish". Unfortunately I think that's dumbing it down. And not giving enough credit to Joe blo viewer. I guess heart throbs win over in the eye of the film makers


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:24pm

Post #84 of 601 (12832 views)
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I'm betting the important question is... [In reply to] Can't Post

Can one of them be Kili? Evil


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm

Post #85 of 601 (12703 views)
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Oh, pretty please! [In reply to] Can't Post

Otherwise, I need the brain bleach and a toothbrush...

Shocked



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm)


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm

Post #86 of 601 (12793 views)
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*grumble grumble* still no color *grumble* [In reply to] Can't Post

On the plus side, we do have some blond hair now.

I wonder if the filmmakers were worried that the audience wouldn't be able to identify with anyone under all the prosthetics and beards. Generally, audience members need to be able to enter the film through at least one of the characters, which is why so many films about other cultures/sci-fi films involve a Western main character. The audience has to identify with someone in order to understand and enjoy the movie.

In the book, that character was Bilbo and his fish out of water experience. In LOTR we had two human main characters, plus plenty of human side characters, to identify with. I wonder if the filmmakers decided to lighten the prosthetics and beards to let the audience in a little more this time around. One character who can't emote under his make-up in a cast of nine is okay. 13 in a cast of 14 is probably a little more problematic.

Just a thought, and I hope this post made sense.

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm

Post #87 of 601 (12740 views)
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I'm with you, willowing [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
If any of the dwarfs we have seen thus far looked liked Gimli I would be very disappointed.

I think it would have been a big mistake to make all the dwarves look too similar to Gimli. A good example is the seven dwarves that appear in the prologue of FOTR. They were *far* too similar to distinguish them from each other easily - as were the dwarves at the Council of Elrond in the movies. And, in those cases, there were half-or-less as many dwarves as we're going to have to keep track of in The Hobbit. I'm glad they're venturing outside of the box a little. Too much conformity would be b-o-r-i-n-g Laugh, not to mention very confusing to the audience.






Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm

Post #88 of 601 (12761 views)
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Noooo that's just wrong! [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

and in 3D !

Permanent address: Into the West





R11
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 7:25pm

Post #89 of 601 (12807 views)
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Seriously weak.... [In reply to] Can't Post

It looks like they even got out the fan to get Kili's luxurious locks flying in the breeze behind him. And all these years for some reason I was under the impression that he belonged to the race of dwarves Crazy. I'm not sure who deserves the blame for this but it's really a shame IMO. Major downer... Unsure


ron


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:26pm

Post #90 of 601 (12798 views)
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answer [In reply to] Can't Post

EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:26pm

Post #91 of 601 (12501 views)
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Sorry, I'll try to behave... :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Runk Snusgrop
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 7:26pm

Post #92 of 601 (12593 views)
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Re: [In reply to] Can't Post

Ooooooooh I see what you did there.

That's much better. Wink



Brandybuckled
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:28pm

Post #93 of 601 (12627 views)
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yeah, well... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And my theory behind it is PJ and company want us viewers to connect with these three dwarves the most because of how their stories end. I think they feel the emotional connection to their end would be hindered if the look too "dwarfish". Unfortunately I think that's dumbing it down. And not giving enough credit to Joe blo viewer. I guess heart throbs win over in the eye of the film makers



Of all the things PJ is famous for, "going subtle" isn't one of the ones that leaps to mind.

NAArP since 2011*

*Not An Ardent Purist


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:28pm

Post #94 of 601 (12686 views)
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IN 3D... [In reply to] Can't Post

hahahahahaha,in 3D,LMAO x1000000000000000000000000000!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 7:29pm

Post #95 of 601 (12637 views)
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Don't know what to make of them [In reply to] Can't Post

I think these two are gonna take the most getting used to for me. I don't understand though why Aidan turner had a decent beard before filming and in the production video and then they cut it off. I don't know how I feel about it. Someone get on the hi-res and photoshop so we can see them better in context.

Even with that said it's not the end of the world and I don't think it will destroy the movie.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Bound
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 7:30pm

Post #96 of 601 (12777 views)
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all the lads [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.flickr.com/...7799/in/photostream/
a rush job but you get the idea

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 7:31pm

Post #97 of 601 (12650 views)
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They would probably have had him shave the beard in any case. [In reply to] Can't Post

Since it's easier to apply a complete new costume beard than work with a real one.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 7:33pm

Post #98 of 601 (12527 views)
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I actually thought they would look like twins [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili and Kili that is. But I guess they're fraternal.


Evernight
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 7:33pm

Post #99 of 601 (12676 views)
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Thanks! Fili not so much, but Kili sticks out like a sore thumb.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit...


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:35pm

Post #100 of 601 (12742 views)
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I'm having mixed feelings… [In reply to] Can't Post

First off, I don't think we can start calling shenanigans on characterizations—I've seen plenty a film adaptation where a character looked wrong but acted so, so right.

They both look fine, but Fíli looks much more like a young dwarf than Kíli does. It's the straight, completely unadorned hair combined with a five o'clock shadow. I understand wanting the younger dwarves to have shorter beards to keep them, well, youthful-looking, but dwarves are vain and look after their beards as much as their hair—Kíli just looks unshaven, which implies that he does shave or just started growing a proper beard. Perhaps if Kíli had the goatee and Fíli a slightly fuller beard, it would work better while still keeping them looking young.

I'm also a bit thrown by the lack of prosthetics here, especially compared to the other dwarves we've seen. They have less prosthetics, but they retain some dwarven features we saw in The Lord of the Rings—bulbous noses and pronounced brows. O'Gorman looks fine; his facial features look like a dwarf before all the hard living they love. But Turner, as people have said, has more of an Elvish look to him—thinner nose, narrow jaw. His body type is also more Elvish—lithe and tall. I wouldn't expect a young dwarf to be as thick as an old dwarf, but O'Gorman has at least that sturdy, rectangular look to him. Turner just looks too thin for a dwarf, especially with the proportions of the feet and the head.

Look, I understand wanting to have a Orlando Bloom-esque hottie in the group and giving that role to the younger guy—fair enough! But Fíli manages to be both attractive and dwarven at the same time. (The two are not mutually exclusive, heh.) Kíli just doesn't look dwarven.

I hope Turner does amazing things with the role, but I don't care for Kíli's design. This makes me wonder what Thorin is going to look like, what with the family resemblances and all.


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:37pm

Post #101 of 601 (12951 views)
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ohhhh, sorry mate but that was not the best picture... [In reply to] Can't Post

ohhhh, sorry mate but that was not the best picture, It really looks like Fili and kili have just been stuck on the end and they are slighty to far foward and inproportiante to the others,nice try though...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Bound
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 7:37pm

Post #102 of 601 (12882 views)
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I said it was rushed... [In reply to] Can't Post

Others will do a better job

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:38pm

Post #103 of 601 (12904 views)
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Can you lighten it up? [In reply to] Can't Post

See, I hate to be a complainer, but it seems like all of Middle-earth is getting the "dark" treatment.

I guess it's these old eyes, but there seems to be no color other than gray, with the little of burgundy (not red) thrown in.

Permanent address: Into the West





Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:39pm

Post #104 of 601 (12843 views)
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ahh well... [In reply to] Can't Post

ahh well, doesnt matter, it was still pretty good

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:39pm

Post #105 of 601 (12829 views)
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One like this one would be great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately it does not include Kili and Fili: http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dwarves.jpg

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:39pm

Post #106 of 601 (12827 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Compared to Kili, Nori looks like a masterpiece !!


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 7:40pm

Post #107 of 601 (12871 views)
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That not all of them look like Gimli is not what most of us are complaining about, though. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nori or Ori doesn't look like Gimli, at all. Do you hear me complaining? Nope. But with Kili especially, they went too far, they should have at least given him a nose prosthetic, like Fili.

Boy i hope they hit it out of the park with the rest of the dwarves... Frown


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:41pm

Post #108 of 601 (12802 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

In the dwarves clothes there is no color other than shades of grey and the rare burgandy.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:42pm

Post #109 of 601 (12762 views)
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Have another shot... [In reply to] Can't Post

Have another shot, just put them behind Dori and and little further back and it should then work,the key to doing photo's like this is so that the overalp to give the effect that its one picture, Good luck..

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:44pm

Post #110 of 601 (12740 views)
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You do it better than me! [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't know where to begin!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 7:44pm

Post #111 of 601 (12793 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm also a bit thrown by the lack of prosthetics here, especially compared to the other dwarves we've seen. They have less prosthetics, but they retain some dwarven features we saw in The Lord of the Rings—bulbous noses and pronounced brows. O'Gorman looks fine; his facial features look like a dwarf before all the hard living they love. But Turner, as people have said, has more of an Elvish look to him—thinner nose, narrow jaw. His body type is also more Elvish—lithe and tall. I wouldn't expect a young dwarf to be as thick as an old dwarf, but O'Gorman has at least that sturdy, rectangular look to him. Turner just looks too thin for a dwarf, especially with the proportions of the feet and the head.



Brandybuckled
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:44pm

Post #112 of 601 (12656 views)
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don't worry, folks [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
In the dwarves clothes there is no color other than shades of grey and the rare burgandy.



That's just to prepare people for the movie's impending Teal Green Overlay.Sly

NAArP since 2011*

*Not An Ardent Purist


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:45pm

Post #113 of 601 (12863 views)
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Absolutely [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep. They obviously needed a 'Legolas' character to pack the little girls in. And I'm not saying that's bad. Frankly I surprised to hear so much grumbling about a 'hot' dwarf at this point. I would have thought most people knew this would be coming down the chain eventually. I pretty much resigned myself to it, and I've been waiting to see what it'd be like. Not too bad really if you ask me. Tastefully done.

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 7:46pm

Post #114 of 601 (12827 views)
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like it [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping that the dwarves in this film would be freed somewhat from the prosthetics that restricted JRD's performance and took such a toll on his health. But once the decision was made (as it apparently has been) to cleave to the visual palette established by Jackson's LOTR I feared it would add needless burden on the actors.

Here we see an honest attempt to have it both ways. It appears these young dwarves (and other young one revealed last week) will be the least encumbered and with the most expressive faces and the oldest will be, shall we say, calcified. I think it is an interesting take and a quite surprised (and happy) to see it.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:47pm

Post #115 of 601 (12749 views)
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That thought HAD crossed my mind. [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, I wouldn't whine about LotR's new coloring so much if they hadn't DARKENED it so.

Permanent address: Into the West





Zherkezhi
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:47pm

Post #116 of 601 (12720 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

... I agree with you! It definitely does make sense and I've come to a similar conclusion. However, I think they could look a bit more rough or at least not that dressed up to the nines, you know?

Then again, I think of the latest cover of Empire magazine: There you catch a glimpse of Gandalf which, I think, is rather unusual and differs from what we've seen of Gandalf before and after that (in images of The Hobbit's shooting). I believe that these promo shots probably convey pictures of these characters which are not that accurate or informative for that matter. You have to take into consideration that these promo shots are set up quite artificially (I know, the finished movie is also something that is artificial) and none of the actors will pose for the camera like that. These dwarves will be dirty and rough-looking and exhausted from their long trip. Let's not make a fuss about these pictures. I am sure, everything will look just fine, in the end...


(This post was edited by Zherkezhi on Jul 12 2011, 7:48pm)


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:48pm

Post #117 of 601 (12688 views)
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Yeah I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

yeah i agree, they seem to be lacking the prostectics of the trade mark dwarf look ( the nose and ears), They just look like armoured up Man-childs and I think that if they at least added the prostetics, fattened they out abit and gave they proper beards, they would actually look really good. And sorry Dean, Rob kazinksy would have looked Ten Times cooler than you do...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 7:51pm

Post #118 of 601 (12672 views)
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Wow, just wow... [In reply to] Can't Post

And not in a good way. While I can buy Fili, who actually looks like quite a convincing take on what a young dwarf would look like, Kili looks as if he stepped out of a shampoo commercial. And the sad thing is that Aidan Turner did look pretty dwarvish with a longer beard in those very first pre-production photos. Here he looks decidedly human if not elvish (beard notwithstanding). I think I could buy him as a dwarf had they given him a long drooping moustache that completely covers the mouth as well as a long flowing beard, both matching his hair, a larger nose and a somewhat more weathered complexion (at the moment he doesn't seem to just use expensive shampoo but also the best skin lotions Dove has to offer). Even if they're that determined (and probably also pressured by the stuodios) to have a handsome dwarf in there, there's a much larger leeway to "good looks" than "perfectly groomed fashion model". So Peter, if you're by any chance reading this, please make Kili more dwarf like, at the moment he isn't even convincing as a Middle Earth character, much less a dwarf.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jul 12 2011, 7:59pm)


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 7:52pm

Post #119 of 601 (12671 views)
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I am sure, everything will look just fine, in the end... [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope so, I really hope so...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


DamienEngland
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 7:53pm

Post #120 of 601 (12713 views)
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SOMEBODY PLEASE FIND AN EMBIGGENABLE HI-RES VERSION! [In reply to] Can't Post

   

If one is out there, that is. It was on both the other occasions

I can't believe I'm the only person here who wants to see one before making up his mind! Unsure

a) You don't know if there's no prosthetic work on his nose at that size image and b) all the other dwarf images benefitted hugely from embiggenable looks under the microscope for me hugely, as opposed to my first impressions from the smaller images which were always kinda meh.




======================


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 7:55pm

Post #121 of 601 (12796 views)
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I'm not reall complaining about the prosthetics... [In reply to] Can't Post

.or even Kili's hair. or even fili at all. I don't really care that they are rather thinner. I just wish they could have put a beard on Kili. It didn't have to be a huge one, but at least one like he had in the pre production photos and the blog video. But I guess we will just have to wait and see.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 7:55pm

Post #122 of 601 (12726 views)
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Perhaps [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps *you're* not complaining about the other dwarves, but I've heard plenty of "they should look more like Gimli from some folks. In fact...


Quote
they should have at least given him a nose prosthetic,


still sounds to me like many people have developed a paradigm, or formula,
of what dwarves should look like pretty much solely based on one character: Gimli, and woe be to PJ & Co. if they stray too far from that paradigm. Of course, that's okay. I'm just not one of you. Laugh I like the differences and, while I acknowledge Kili is more 'outside the box' than some of the others, it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I'm glad. EvilCool



Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Rosebud
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 7:55pm

Post #123 of 601 (12764 views)
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yes he did [In reply to] Can't Post

Both with yellow beards, blue cloaks and silver belts. I think there is also some mentioning of long noses.

On top of all this there is of course the more generic descriptions of dwarves as short and stocky with long beards (including women). I think it's reasonably clear what Tolkien had in mind and its not this.

Some creative license is ok but this is a bridge too far for me personally. I'm happy for you that you can enjoy it though!


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:55pm

Post #124 of 601 (12729 views)
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You're not. I want one too. But I'm sure we'll get one... [In reply to] Can't Post

be patient. Wink

Oh, and I want the one being worked on that adds these latest two to the others. I wonder how soon it will be that they won't all fit onto a good high res pic? The Nine worked it, but we are talking 13 here, so I don't know...

Permanent address: Into the West





Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 7:56pm

Post #125 of 601 (12778 views)
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They have gone too far. [In reply to] Can't Post

The costumes and weapons are cool as always, and Fili actually doesn't look bad at all – the beard and the braids in his hair look nice and Dwarvish, and I appreciate the way they've retained the hair colour that was specified by Tolkien. Give him a bit of a longer beard and he's perfect. But Kili... where do I even begin? He doesn't look like a Dwarf at all! They've also severed his visual connection with his brother by giving him dark hair. Look at that brooding stare and dramatic mane, completely free from prosthetics and facial hair... This is a sad day – the 'Hunky Dwarf' hypothesis has been verified.

I fear for Thorin, I really do.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 7:58pm

Post #126 of 601 (13312 views)
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Altaira, I can hear you shouting... [In reply to] Can't Post

"hubba -hubba" all the way from Colorado here to Indy.Wink

Permanent address: Into the West





DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 7:59pm

Post #127 of 601 (13342 views)
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Well, what did y'all think? This can't come as a surprise... [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ hired two young, good looking actors for the roles and spoke about "heartthrob dwarves" in an interview... I was expecting two hunky dwarves, and would actually have been disappointed to see something else... I think PJ and his crew did a great job on these ones (and the other dwarves as well)! It's great to see some variety.

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:05pm

Post #128 of 601 (13120 views)
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No, that's me! [In reply to] Can't Post

EvilHeart
Laugh



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 8:13pm

Post #129 of 601 (13196 views)
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Are we sure these are real? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 8:14pm

Post #130 of 601 (13240 views)
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I am VERY happy [In reply to] Can't Post

that the 'longest noses of them all' thing from the book did not transfer to the movie.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:14pm

Post #131 of 601 (13292 views)
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This might be an early costume test... So his beard could be thicker in the film.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone else suggested this is the "post-spider Kili" (in the book he gets so much spider-web in his beard he needs to shave it off). but he's supposed to have yellow hair :(


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 8:16pm

Post #132 of 601 (13212 views)
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Here's a link to the compilation someon did on imdb [In reply to] Can't Post

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nlbt3s.jpg

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:18pm

Post #133 of 601 (13273 views)
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PLEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!! / / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Bound
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:18pm

Post #134 of 601 (13197 views)
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Why wouldn't it be... (yes it is) [In reply to] Can't Post

It's exactly the same release as the other offical photos..

and yes, i've just checked Pete's facebook page and he's got it posted there

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 8:20pm

Post #135 of 601 (13213 views)
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They've been reposted from PJ's facebook [In reply to] Can't Post

As well as on the official Hobbit movie blog. http://www.thehobbitblog.com/

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Eldaria
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 8:21pm

Post #136 of 601 (13213 views)
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go back to the drawing board [In reply to] Can't Post

Aidan Turner looked more dwarven, and more believable, at the press conference, el natural, than totally-missed-the-mark Kili does.




“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:22pm

Post #137 of 601 (12994 views)
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No, don't worry. It's just a nightmare! // [In reply to] Can't Post

please wake up. please wake up.


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:22pm

Post #138 of 601 (13209 views)
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Nah shoundn't worry about the other dwarves! [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok people, here's the deal, there have been some Hurrays and heart breaks over this pic of Fili and Kili and though I am not fully convinced either, that dosent mean that the Dwarves are going to go down hill from here onward.

Fili and kili's look was completely based on the fact that they are the youngest of the dwarves and probably somewhat naive and rebellious( a possible reason for the lack of huge beards). All the other dwarves are battle harderned veterans ( well, perhaps with the exception of Ori who seems to be weilding a book in the pic) and will probably look more like the dwarves we know and love.

Furthermore, I recently bought a copy of the Hobbit Special Empire magazine and on the main page picture ( also the frist picture we got on TORN) it shows Bilbo reading the contract with dwarves looking on in the background and from that picture I can not recognise any of the dwarves that have appeared on the site and from what i can tell, they got big beards , they are wearing fat suits, awsome armour and have the original prostetics.

So to sum up ,we don't need to worry, Fili and Kili are an unique case and stand very much alone and I'am pretty sure that the rest of the dwarves are going to be more like the ones we are familiar with and that we re all going to love them.

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 8:22pm

Post #139 of 601 (13355 views)
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*points down the thread to Bound's post* No need to yell. Someone already has // [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 8:23pm

Post #140 of 601 (13042 views)
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Fili & Kili just look out of place... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:24pm

Post #141 of 601 (13221 views)
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Or, alternately... [In reply to] Can't Post

They have gotten their eye-candy out of the way with Kili, and Thorin will look appropriately avuncular.

I'm still not convinced that they cast Armitage for his "heart-throb" qualities anyway.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 8:24pm

Post #142 of 601 (13077 views)
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I guess Kili is a fan of the Elves. [In reply to] Can't Post

It could be argued Fili and Kili are really young Dwarves - perhaps the Dwarven equivalent of teenagers. They probably tend to grow more
'Dwarvish' as they grow older, some more quickly than others.

We know more about Elves than we know of Dwarves but I'm pretty sure that the women and children of Tolkien's Dwarves did not have beards.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:25pm

Post #143 of 601 (13236 views)
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Oooooh, I'm sorry... Thankyou!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Blush


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 8:26pm

Post #144 of 601 (13095 views)
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My first thought: message boards are gonna love this... I wasn't wrong. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 8:26pm

Post #145 of 601 (13241 views)
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Post-spider Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

I really doubt that. These are meant to be introductory images; why would they show us the Dwarves in degenerated, dishevelled states which they reach at a late chronological point in the first film? Surely we're supposed to be able to look at these images and immediately recognise the chacters they depict when we watch the film?


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 8:27pm

Post #146 of 601 (12969 views)
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Ori actually looks younger than Fili and Kili... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 8:28pm

Post #147 of 601 (13066 views)
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The women and children of Tolkien's Dwarves actually did have beards. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:29pm

Post #148 of 601 (13203 views)
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These so called " heart throb" or "hunky" dwarves [In reply to] Can't Post

yes, but these so called " heart throb" or "hunky" dwarves could have at leastly look more like Dwarves, not these armoured up man-child things that look like they are workin for the middle earth fashion industry...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 8:29pm

Post #149 of 601 (13173 views)
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Fili is the only one smiling!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile out of all the dwarfs!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...

(This post was edited by Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth on Jul 12 2011, 8:30pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 8:31pm

Post #150 of 601 (13023 views)
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Yup. [In reply to] Can't Post

But then, as I've said before, I have no problem with the hairstyle.

That his hair would be "star-shaped" seems in keeping with primative races focused on the natural universe. It seems pretty regal to me, and not "human".

But "Elf-dwarf" Kili is another matter.

Permanent address: Into the West





Proudfoot
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 8:33pm

Post #151 of 601 (13984 views)
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I gave it a try as well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not high res, nor high-tech, and as I can't get the other to load, this may be just the same. But this how I killed a bit of time this afternoon.

(as fast-moving as this thread has been, no doubt something better has popped up while I was posting, but a spare dwarf portrait never hurt anyone!)

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/Chickadee33/Dwarves-group.jpg


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 8:33pm

Post #152 of 601 (13940 views)
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Okay, you too Rosie-Lass... [In reply to] Can't Post

a little Estrogen Island where we least expected it?Wink

Permanent address: Into the West





Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:34pm

Post #153 of 601 (13970 views)
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Ori actually looks younger than Fili and Kili... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well at least Ori actually looks like a dwarf

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 12 2011, 8:34pm

Post #154 of 601 (14075 views)
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I literally have no words [In reply to] Can't Post

I cannot believe how far they've missed the mark here with Kili. He looks like the love-child of Aragorn and Legolas, and I mean that quite literally. I'm honestly convinced that Kili couldn't get further from being a dwarf if PJ and Weta tried.

Horrible. Just absolutely horrible. I really cannot think of anything else to say.

But just so my post isn't solely negative, Fili does look good.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 8:34pm

Post #155 of 601 (13926 views)
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I'm putting in my application as we speak :-) [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
armoured up man-child things that look like they are workin for the middle earth fashion industry...

I would like to work for that industry...LOLCool

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...

(This post was edited by Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth on Jul 12 2011, 8:37pm)


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 8:35pm

Post #156 of 601 (13878 views)
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Very well then. [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I just need time to try to accept it. I have that feeling again that I had during Indy 4. Sort of a mixed disbelief. It was hard to know how to feel, being that it was an oxymoron, it is impossible for Indiana Jones to suck, and yet it did. I thought the results would cause a chain reaction that would unravel the very fabric of the space time continuum, and destroy the entire universe in the process, but nothing happened. I was just left in shock and scared for life. They need to be different, I get that, but why no beard? Maybe the other dwarves shaved him in his sleep? Laugh

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 8:36pm

Post #157 of 601 (13967 views)
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Precisely. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Aidan Turner looked more dwarven, and more believable, at the press conference, el natural, than totally-missed-the-mark Kili does.


I still have a glimmer of hope that he looks like that only in the poster with all the airbrush and fan blown hair and would be much more rugged and hirsute (in one word: dwarf-like) in the actual movie. It's a faint one, but there it is. Othewise he sticks out like an overgroomed urban dandy in the middle of a rough and dirty biker gang.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jul 12 2011, 8:43pm)


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:38pm

Post #158 of 601 (13927 views)
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What the....love-child of Aragorn and Legolas! [In reply to] Can't Post

ROFL, the love-child of Aragorn and Legolas!hahahahahahahahahahahaha,LMFAO XD

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Hengist
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 8:39pm

Post #159 of 601 (13946 views)
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So at least we now know who Tauriel is [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili's mother. Unsure

Kili looks like a small elf or human - just doesnt look right.

Fili doesnt look too bad.


" So let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you're completely sane? "


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:39pm

Post #160 of 601 (13953 views)
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I just noticed that. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:42pm

Post #161 of 601 (13908 views)
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love them// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


There is always hope


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:42pm

Post #162 of 601 (13813 views)
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I guess he doesn't know the seriousness of the quest yet... [In reply to] Can't Post

He's going to be happy and enthusiastic throughout the journey, until...


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:45pm

Post #163 of 601 (13971 views)
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I wouldn't mind giving Kili a feel-i [In reply to] Can't Post

Can't wait for Thorin Hunkenshield.

* crunch *


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:45pm

Post #164 of 601 (13734 views)
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probably :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


There is always hope


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 8:48pm

Post #165 of 601 (13913 views)
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If PJ is keeping to the book timeline [In reply to] Can't Post

then Fili and Kili were born 5 years apart.

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rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:48pm

Post #166 of 601 (13880 views)
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...they start fighting for good old Uncle Thorin. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 8:49pm

Post #167 of 601 (13902 views)
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Whose older? [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili or Fili?

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Welsh hero
Gondor


Jul 12 2011, 8:50pm

Post #168 of 601 (13932 views)
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Explanation for Kili's beard [In reply to] Can't Post

on their way to the shire the stopped at Bree. The dwarves decided to have a big drinking session. The last one before the trip. Kili got so drunk he passed out. The other dwarves thought it would be funny to shave him. Thus Kili woke up with out a beard. the dwarves find this funny, kili vowes never to drink again.....

Twitter: @IrfonPennant

(This post was edited by Welsh hero on Jul 12 2011, 8:51pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:50pm

Post #169 of 601 (13828 views)
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Congratulations! [In reply to] Can't Post

Best post on this thread Laugh


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 8:51pm

Post #170 of 601 (13844 views)
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Fili // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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R11
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 8:51pm

Post #171 of 601 (13850 views)
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Yep [In reply to] Can't Post

They actually went out of their way to pretty him up! I'm holding out hope that his on-screen look in the films is a bit rougher and this promo shot is some kind of inside joke, because otherwise it's pretty much a slap in the face to Tolkien and all the fans who haven't been overwhelmed by their hormones. Speaking of which, I'm very surprised at how such a large number of fans could basically abandon their Tolkien ideals just for the sake of some cheap eye candy. Frown


ron


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 8:52pm

Post #172 of 601 (13884 views)
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based on this picture [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's easy to guess who is going to be the heart throb in this movie :)


There is always hope


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:52pm

Post #173 of 601 (13792 views)
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LOLOLOLOLOL [In reply to] Can't Post

lovechild of Aragorn and legolas....HAHAHA too good !!


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 8:53pm

Post #174 of 601 (13884 views)
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Poor Tolkein [In reply to] Can't Post

he must be VERY tired from spinning so much in his grave. Unsure

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:53pm

Post #175 of 601 (13761 views)
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who is older, Fili or Kili? [In reply to] Can't Post

They're twins, their age differance might only be a matter of minutes!

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 8:54pm

Post #176 of 601 (12341 views)
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They're not twins. [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili is 5 years older.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jul 12 2011, 8:55pm)


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:56pm

Post #177 of 601 (12491 views)
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Explanation for Kili's beard [In reply to] Can't Post

ROFL, that would be brilliant but remenber dwarves are very sensitive about their beards and they would probbaly never disrespect or disgrace another dwarf in that way, nice idea though. XD

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 8:56pm

Post #178 of 601 (12407 views)
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No they aren't [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili born 2859. Kili born 2864. They were 82 and 77 respectively at the time of The Hobbit.

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Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:56pm

Post #179 of 601 (12511 views)
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Really?! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 8:57pm

Post #180 of 601 (12414 views)
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my mistake [In reply to] Can't Post

 

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


aifeme
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 8:58pm

Post #181 of 601 (12447 views)
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Fili and Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

So...when dwarves are young they look like humans, and they get 'dwarvier' when they grow old? I just don't get it and don't like it. But I'm sure that PJ knows what he's doing.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 8:59pm

Post #182 of 601 (12480 views)
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Question - What do young Dwarves look like? [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili and Kili will probably blend in with the other eleven Dwarves after a while.

I've looked at the pics of the other Dwarves again, and I get the impression of seeing several generations of the same family.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 8:59pm

Post #183 of 601 (12343 views)
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Well that's a rather insulting generalization. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 8:59pm

Post #184 of 601 (12483 views)
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Indded... [In reply to] Can't Post

Even Jack Sparrow from "Pirates of the Caribbean" would make for a better dwarf...

And that's saying something.


ltnjmy
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 9:00pm

Post #185 of 601 (12471 views)
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Ah come on folks - [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that they look great !

Let's give PJ a chance Angelic and remember that they are the youngest of the dwarves. . .


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:01pm

Post #186 of 601 (12619 views)
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the picture is weird though [In reply to] Can't Post

because Aidan Turner looks like a teenager.


There is always hope


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:01pm

Post #187 of 601 (12469 views)
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I know, I have so got the hots for smaug, that sexy thing, ROFL [In reply to] Can't Post

 

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:01pm

Post #188 of 601 (12374 views)
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You evil person [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that mental image will haunt me to my grave.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:03pm

Post #189 of 601 (12450 views)
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I went for quite some time thinking they were twins, too. I wonder where we all got [In reply to] Can't Post

that idea? I think I only knew they weren't due to a post here a few years ago. But it's been so long since I've read it, and mostly now just listen to the BBC audio, which doesn't mention their ages either way.

We probably just assumed it because their names are so similiar. But then, so are Ori, Nori, etc.

Permanent address: Into the West





Turambar
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:03pm

Post #190 of 601 (12403 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

what the teenagers in your part of the world look like, but he definitely doesn't look like a teenager to me.

This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:03pm

Post #191 of 601 (12428 views)
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I fear the opposite is true... [In reply to] Can't Post

That Oin and Gloin got the Tolkien fans out the way, so that they can mess around with the rest as much as they want. Something for everyone kinda thing. Unfortunately they've stepped a little too far this time. If Bombur is not a model dwarf I will be very displeased, he's my favourite character!


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:03pm

Post #192 of 601 (12351 views)
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:-D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


There is always hope


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:05pm

Post #193 of 601 (12441 views)
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The hots... [In reply to] Can't Post

pun intended?

Permanent address: Into the West





mykonos
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:05pm

Post #194 of 601 (12292 views)
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hahaha Johnny Depp? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know about that, I thought JD was the hottest thing in the world in that movie at the time Laugh I was only 15


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:07pm

Post #195 of 601 (12355 views)
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I just don't see how they can mess Bombur up... [In reply to] Can't Post

He's already got the padding, thank goodness! He was a great casting choice.

I like him, too, but my favorite is Balin. I really hope he looks as I have imagined him.

Permanent address: Into the West





aifeme
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 9:08pm

Post #196 of 601 (12319 views)
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. [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm just waiting to see which dwarf is the bald one...


namarie
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:09pm

Post #197 of 601 (12375 views)
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I don't know either [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue..but if I look at the small picture I could easily give him 18-19
maybe 20 with indulgence

Aiden Turner is 28 (according with imdb anyway) but he looks much younger in the picture.


There is always hope


mykonos
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:09pm

Post #198 of 601 (12399 views)
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I think it might be James Nesbitt // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:10pm

Post #199 of 601 (12412 views)
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this is one moment, frozen in time [In reply to] Can't Post

The thing about all these pictures is they are taken out of context, away from any set that might inform the look.

My feeling with all of the images is that this is what the dwarves look like the day they show up at Bagend, and then they all go traveling, and all hell breaks loose and things change.

I'm quite sure we will see Nori's starfish hair get limp and change shape, especially after the encounter with the spiders. And I'm willing to bet Kili dies with a full beard.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:11pm

Post #200 of 601 (12341 views)
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And now that I think of it [In reply to] Can't Post

I do wonder now why in the world they cut Aidan's hair if they were still gonna leave a long hair look ala Mitchel. Just straight.Unsure


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:12pm

Post #201 of 601 (13311 views)
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Thank you for a voice of reason! [In reply to] Can't Post

Honestly, I was prepairing myself for the worst, and this isn't anywhere near that.

But perhaps I'm biased, as my own mental image of Dwarves has always been pretty human-like and not neanderthalian-like, as I've said before.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:13pm

Post #202 of 601 (13228 views)
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Yes you are right! [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ is not subtle! And rather then making Killi and Filli subtlety more human he went to the extreme of making them 99% human looking with 1% big ears


Proudfoot
The Shire


Jul 12 2011, 9:13pm

Post #203 of 601 (13621 views)
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And here's a second version, from a newbie.... [In reply to] Can't Post

One more for good measure

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h329/Chickadee33/Dwarves-group.jpg


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 9:14pm

Post #204 of 601 (13128 views)
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I know what you mean **shudders** [In reply to] Can't Post

 

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Theodred
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 9:16pm

Post #205 of 601 (13189 views)
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I really don't think that's going to happen, [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
So Peter, if you're by any chance reading this, please make Kili more dwarf like, at the moment he isn't even convincing as a Middle Earth character, much less a dwarf.


Because they have probably already shot many scenes with the dwarves, and they wíll probably not, because of this, make Kili more dwarf-like, and then reshoot all the scenes with Kili again.

http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/
http://www.widgetbox.com/widget/the-hobbit-news-widget-ronald_40


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:18pm

Post #206 of 601 (13152 views)
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It's a very common misconception [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it's because they're described identically; the only real visual information we have about either of them is that they have long yellow beards. Add to that their status as 'the young ones' of the group (which implies close age) and their similar but equal names (you wouldn't expect twins to be called Dori and Ori, as that seems to emphasise the former, but Fili and Kili sounds quite twinnish), and it's not hard to see how the 'twins' idea crept into our minds.


Proudfoot
The Shire


Jul 12 2011, 9:18pm

Post #207 of 601 (13247 views)
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I quite like that idea! [In reply to] Can't Post

A freshly shaved (by dwarf standards) face, post-spiders, would make perfect sense. I've no idea why we'd see that version in these photos, but if they were using natural beards, and this shoot happened to be scheduled after those real beards had actually been shaved... I think the theory works well.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:19pm

Post #208 of 601 (13136 views)
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With the recasting of Fili, those scenes may have to be reshot anyway... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:19pm

Post #209 of 601 (13443 views)
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I don't know if Elvish... but... [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, I get Fili... Kili just looks human... or Elvish... weird...

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:21pm

Post #210 of 601 (13093 views)
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Thank you. Someone who knows these two are not twins. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just kinda bugs me every time someone mentions that PJ isn't making them identical. Shocked


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:22pm

Post #211 of 601 (13430 views)
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I'm looking at this one... [In reply to] Can't Post

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nlbt3s.jpg


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 9:23pm

Post #212 of 601 (13052 views)
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That's rather unfair [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Quote
I'm very surprised at how such a large number of fans could basically abandon their Tolkien ideals just for the sake of some cheap eye candy. Frown



It's unfair to paint all the fans who aren't bothered by Kili's looks with such a broad brush I personally couldn't care less if they're hunky or not. It just doesn't bother me that he doesn't look like a cookie-cutter dwarf. *shrugs*


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:23pm

Post #213 of 601 (13100 views)
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On the other hand, he's got Sword of Shannara down PAT ! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West





sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 9:24pm

Post #214 of 601 (13211 views)
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That was just a rhetorical appeal more than anything else... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I don't think Peter Jackson will change his mind just because of one post on a forum.

But it's also 100 % my honest opinion.

And besides, who knows, fan pressure did keep XenArwen out of the Lord of the Rings.


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 9:25pm

Post #215 of 601 (13231 views)
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I was so wrong [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Oin and Gloin pics came out, I posted that I now understand everyone's concern, because they were hunks. I was joking obviously, and never thought PJ would give us this. I am so very disappointed with these two dwarves.

I wonder what conditioner Kili uses, his hair is perfect. Pirate


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:28pm

Post #216 of 601 (13100 views)
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Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

also had the longest nose in the whole group !


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:29pm

Post #217 of 601 (13162 views)
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Are you disappointed with Fili, too? [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't call him a hunk. But I'm with you on Kili.Smile

Permanent address: Into the West





DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:30pm

Post #218 of 601 (13220 views)
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........ [In reply to] Can't Post

............................................................................................................................

...........................................................................................................................

...........................................................I beg your pardon?

Jeepers. I don't quite know what to say.....................Come back Armitage all is forgiven?

I'd like to say I told you so, but that'd be referring to the wrong dwarf- i had high hopes for Fili and Kili, Rob Kazinsky and Aidan Turner seemed like a cracking couple of blokes and a good match for the carefree energy of the younger dwarves (and Dean O'Gorman was a pretty cool replacement even if the replacement was regrettable). Like others have said, Aidan Turner looked positively dwarvish at the press conference- what in the name of all that's holy happened? I'm sorry, but there's no wind machine or anything like that that can shoulder the blame for the abysmal Kili look. Fili is acceptable (not ideal- give me my dwarven proportions) but Kili really is tall, dark and handsome in that picture, three things that the short, blonde dwarf that is his role should not be. This goes beyond 'making him distinct' or 'making him look young'- young people can be short and stocky too (in fact given childhood obesity figures a lot of them are!) this is exactly the kind of cynical manipulation of the decision to lessen the prosthetics and the calls for variety that i feared- the thin end of the wedge hasn't got any fatter! (Yes i know that doesn't make any sense but then Kili's look doesn't either and the parallel in phrase and message was too tempting to miss).

In the 'casting of Thorin' thread i wrote some things that some considered to be a bit sexist and patronising, at the time i was speaking out of paranoia, i never suspected i would be so near the truth. Surely now anyone who gives a damn about dwarves can see my point? While i'm trying not to rant, i do take this in bad humour and unless proven otherwise, i think anyone who tries to defend Kili's look is either a Estrogen Islander or a contrarian. Devil's advocate simply isn't a strong enough phraseTongue

PJ- sort your Kili out before your next shooting session or i'll stick shadowfax's head in your bed Angelic

Dr Death


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 9:30pm

Post #219 of 601 (13127 views)
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Probably [In reply to] Can't Post

what PJ did to Kili and Fili...

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:30pm

Post #220 of 601 (13235 views)
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XenArwen wasn *not* changed because of fan reaction [In reply to] Can't Post

But because Philippa and Liv felt it was wrong and wanted to change the character.

I doubt they're going to do any re-shooting because many dislike this look. They know we're going to watch the movies anyway, one (or perhaps a few) hot Dwarf here or there. And the audience is made of other groups than us Tolkien fans too, so they can afford losing some ToRNsibs.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster

(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Jul 12 2011, 9:31pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:30pm

Post #221 of 601 (13169 views)
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Rankin/Bass influence? [In reply to] Can't Post




mykonos
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 9:31pm

Post #222 of 601 (13025 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

And I don't see a problem with these two young dwarves when seen with the rest of the dwarf pics that have been released already. Or is that my hormones speaking? Laugh


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:33pm

Post #223 of 601 (13138 views)
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pfirst picture we saw showed kili a little bit different than this [In reply to] Can't Post

when we saw the first picture of bilbo in the back ground we could see a dwarf very probably kili, and it looked different than this, so dont get angry
besides imagine all dwarves gimli like, it would be boring but more of that, very very difficult on the screen to know who is who, i had problems with merry and pippin imagine with 13 dwarves, it would be very confusing, even boring

GOD bless you all!!!!!!!!!


SF
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 9:34pm

Post #224 of 601 (13149 views)
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Hair Color [In reply to] Can't Post

Brothers don't always have the same color hair. I've known siblings with light and dark hair.

Personally, I think they look just fine.

(This post was edited by SF on Jul 12 2011, 9:36pm)


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 9:35pm

Post #225 of 601 (12946 views)
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Yes, him too [In reply to] Can't Post

though he looks better than Kili. Kili's too pretty, too thin, and looks like a short elf.

Fili looks like a man. Really nothing dwarvish about him. Just a guy with a smile on his face.


Marionette
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:35pm

Post #226 of 601 (12631 views)
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I like all the dwarves so far [In reply to] Can't Post

Love this one, really couldn´t imagine Fili and Kili, but they are young dwarves so I think it´s OK.
The other dwarves look better "dwarvish" becoz they are the old ones.

Besides, they are achieving the goal of makind each dwarft DIFFERENT, and you can easily know who is who, that doesn´t happen thinking in the image we have from the book.

Well, I still find the first image (Ori, Dori and Nori ) odd, it looks like a photoshoped toys...

I am pretty sure they will all look wayyy better on film.

Hope to see the rest of dwarves this week.

"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:37pm

Post #227 of 601 (12617 views)
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Don't speak too soon!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm expecting Bifur, Bofur and Bombur tomorrow! You go making statements like that, you're asking for trouble :/


SF
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 9:38pm

Post #228 of 601 (12651 views)
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Rankin/Bass [In reply to] Can't Post

I was about to suggest the same thing.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 9:39pm

Post #229 of 601 (12701 views)
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I was waiting for your post, darling. [In reply to] Can't Post

And you didn't let me down. Wink

I'm feeling really sorry for PJ right now. 13 Dwarves without much of characteristics must be the most uncinematic thing to try to film. He was almost bound to do something wrong, and while I feel that Kili's looks are off as far as Dwarven looks are considered, I'm still not feeling any panic at all. Actually I'm pretty sure I'll learn to live with this.

And as I said before, this isn't anywhere near my worst case scenario. (Which is that the characters would be boring.)

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:41pm

Post #230 of 601 (12663 views)
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I was almost stunned into silence to tell the truth [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice to know you get a kick out of me having kittens thoughWink

Dr Death


adu
Bree

Jul 12 2011, 9:42pm

Post #231 of 601 (12636 views)
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Relax guys... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, I was kinda hesitant as well, but here are the positives for me

1) My wife has suddenly found a reason to get excited about the Hobbit (she is not into the whole Middle Earth craze like us mortals)
2) They are young, you cant make all dwarves fat and unattractive looking :)
3) I am sure in the movie, when seen amongst their peers, they will be much much more acceptable.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 9:44pm

Post #232 of 601 (12464 views)
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You are evil [In reply to] Can't Post

I like that in a person. LaughWink Very clever!


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 9:44pm

Post #233 of 601 (12717 views)
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Quacking Troll, don't tease! [In reply to] Can't Post

okay, I take it all back.Cool

Hey, wouldn't it be great to get their pics tomorrow? I'm thinking it will be nearer the weekend.Crazy

Permanent address: Into the West





droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:44pm

Post #234 of 601 (12594 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

thats funny!


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:44pm

Post #235 of 601 (12640 views)
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Oh come on- besides [In reply to] Can't Post

Countless directors have had to handle making twelve beardy apostles unique and recognisable, i'm sure 13 dwarves isn't that much of an issue.Laugh

Dr Death


(This post was edited by DrDeath153 on Jul 12 2011, 9:45pm)


Amigo
The Shire


Jul 12 2011, 9:44pm

Post #236 of 601 (12537 views)
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Why should all dwarves look the same? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not all people look the same. Why should it apply to dwarves? There are pretty people, ugly people, fat people, skinny people, stocky people, tall people, short people, hairy people, bald people. I personally don't want to see 13 Gimlis. Diversity is good and realistic.

Speak "friend" and enter.


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:48pm

Post #237 of 601 (12789 views)
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By looking at all of them together [In reply to] Can't Post

They're definitely going for the good, the bad and the ugly. Oh, and the HOT ones. Laugh


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 9:49pm

Post #238 of 601 (12558 views)
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I don't want to see 13 Gimlis but i also don't want to see 11 dwarves and 2 humans... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 9:49pm

Post #239 of 601 (12555 views)
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Yes, but it's rather like... [In reply to] Can't Post

...having Arwen look like this: http://img2.timeinc.net/...ox/megan_fox300a.jpg for the sake of "character diversity".

First and foremost, character diversity doesn't require any of the dwarves to be good looking. So this is no excuse.

And second, even if they are so dead set on having a good looking dwarf, why make him look like a modern generic fashion model rather than an actual Tolkien character?

All I personally hope for at the moment is that the picture is photoshopped and airbrushed beyond recognition for promotion and marketing's sake, and that the actual movie Kili looks like a proper dwarf that belongs in Middle Earth and not a billboard above a highway.


little mouse
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 9:50pm

Post #240 of 601 (12475 views)
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hello handsome [In reply to] Can't Post

I`m quite happy with their looks, where is written that all dwarves have to be fat and bearded?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:52pm

Post #241 of 601 (12525 views)
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pretty much every chapter of The Hobbit? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


R11
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 9:52pm

Post #242 of 601 (12586 views)
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No generalization [In reply to] Can't Post

Simply an observation based on the explicit responses in this thread and the comments on PJ's facebook posting. My comment only applied to those expressing their delight for his hawtness anyway Angelic. There's really nothing subtle about it. It's something I would expect on a general forum like facebook, but to see it here is surprising to me because I always figured the members of TORN to be more the type to value visual authenticity over sex appeal. I mean, a dwarf that essentially has no characteristics of a dwarf and instead looks like human model? Sorry if you feel insulted by it though...

ron


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 9:54pm

Post #243 of 601 (12571 views)
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Where does it say dwarf = ugly? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 9:54pm

Post #244 of 601 (12494 views)
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They'll all be in wigs [In reply to] Can't Post

For long shoots you stick your actors in wigs - it makes for easier continuity. I believe even Liv Tyler, whose hair is naturally pretty much like Arwen's, had a wig for LOTR.

Boardwalk in mangroves


Lunamoth
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 9:55pm

Post #245 of 601 (12588 views)
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Tolkien Ideals? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not sure what you are implying here, nor with the comment regarding hormones, but yanno, I'm just a femine with her knitting and such so what do I know about such things? Mad

I don't have any Tolkien ideals. He doesn't dictate my ethics or principles, thank you. He wrote some fictional books that a lot of people love, and they are good stories. And these are film adaptations. Just films. It doesn't change the content of the books. It becomes something else.


pacochoa
Bree

Jul 12 2011, 9:55pm

Post #246 of 601 (12539 views)
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Kili's bow and arrow [In reply to] Can't Post

There doesn't seem to be alot of talk about Kili's cool, black bow and arrow setup.
I think this is a pretty good sign that Kili will be doing some awesome action moves (i.e. Legolas)


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 9:56pm

Post #247 of 601 (12499 views)
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Perspective [In reply to] Can't Post

I reckon the Dwarves will all look more Dwarvish when perspective is taken into account - when Kili's standing only chest-high to Gandalf, he'll look like a Dwarf. I actually quite like these two, and would like to thank PJ for not carrying out the crime of putting Aidan Turner in heavy prosthetics. Cool

Seriously, I think there's some interesting design decisions going on, and I can't wait to see it all realised together on screen.

Boardwalk in mangroves


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 9:57pm

Post #248 of 601 (12576 views)
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Where does it say hunky dwarf = hunky human? Different races, different ideals of beauty... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 9:58pm

Post #249 of 601 (12544 views)
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Whoa...not what I was expecting. This is going to go well around here...// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 10:00pm

Post #250 of 601 (12498 views)
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I thought Bard the Bowman had been revealed [In reply to] Can't Post

But it turns out it's a dwarf...


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 10:02pm

Post #251 of 601 (11760 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether we like it or not, this will put more seats on the movie theaters which is at the end the main purpose of making a film. I just came from a blog where they just posted this picture and they're all ecstatic, did i say ecstatic? euphoric! with how these dwarfs are looking. All the Being Human fans are already sold out for the Hobbit.


Amigo
The Shire


Jul 12 2011, 10:02pm

Post #252 of 601 (11739 views)
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Then maybe... [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili and Fili would be considered ugly by dwarven standards? And Oin and Gloin are the hunks? Who knows? Tongue

All that matters to me is that the actors personify the dwarven race through their acting abilities.

Speak "friend" and enter.


R11
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 10:02pm

Post #253 of 601 (11624 views)
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But I didn't [In reply to] Can't Post

Paint all the fans with a broad brush. I specifically commented about a particular group expressing their glee over his steamy appeal. So, unless you have a guilty conscience Altaira it shouldn't bother you Cool


ron


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 12 2011, 10:02pm

Post #254 of 601 (11772 views)
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Well I knew what you would say when these popped up. [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts go back to PJ's choice of 3-D. It gave a clear signal that he intended to go in a new direction. I would say that it is not what I expected but it could still turn out well in the end. If The Hildebrandt Brothers, Alan Lee, and Cor Blok can all illustrate Tolkien then I can live with GQ Dwarves.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 12 2011, 10:04pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 10:03pm

Post #255 of 601 (11768 views)
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Are people saying they have no beards? [In reply to] Can't Post

   
Kili and Fili have beards XD Why people say they haven´t.

They have beards of YOUNG dwarves Blush

Honestly the dwarves are not described, they basically are all the same while reading the book (s), OK, with some feaures, but making them different is OK

So, it is not my worry the look of the dwarves, or other characters.
Still waiting for Thorin cuz he is my favorite.Unsure

"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:03pm

Post #256 of 601 (11703 views)
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Dori, Nori and Ori didn't look like cookie-cutter Dwarves either [In reply to] Can't Post

But their photo was released to markedly better reception than this one. I don't want them to be thirteen Gimlis any more than you do, but I do want them to look like they're actually Dwarves. Judging by this picture, Kili does not quite fulfil that basic requirement.


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 10:05pm

Post #257 of 601 (11764 views)
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It's not that dwarves should be "ugly"... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it's rather that they shouldn't be handsome in this kind of squeaky clean Holllywood pretty boy manner.

Look at this dwarf by Alan Lee: http://imageshack.us/...mages/97/dwarfs.jpg/

He looks like a dwarf without being "ugly", if anything he looks noble and dignified. The last thing he resembles is a model out of a fashion magazine (unfortunately the same cannot be said for Kili).


mykonos
Bree


Jul 12 2011, 10:06pm

Post #258 of 601 (11521 views)
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I hope so! [In reply to] Can't Post

And then when we have the pics of all the dwarves, we can better make assumptions.


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:09pm

Post #259 of 601 (11556 views)
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I'm not understanding your distinction [In reply to] Can't Post

...between "ugly" and "not handsome."

Apart from saying that dwarves are shorter than men and stockier than hobbits (which Kili admittedly isn't), Tolkien really doesn't define a "dwarvish" look. So I don't see how anyone can say definitively what they do or do not look like.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jul 12 2011, 10:10pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:10pm

Post #260 of 601 (11662 views)
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Liv's concerns were caused/amplified by fan feedback. [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't know if the fans were what ultimately caused PJ to reconsider, but at this point, it hardly matters: you can delete a XenArwen sequence, but you can't reshoot every single scene that features Kili. So unless they figure out some way to go back and digitally Dwarfanise him, we're stuck with the hunk.


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:11pm

Post #261 of 601 (11572 views)
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It's my understanding... [In reply to] Can't Post

...that the "XenArwen" persona was eliminated before the fans ever knew anything about it.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:12pm

Post #262 of 601 (11608 views)
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But Christ is always portrayed as a handsome man [In reply to] Can't Post

Notice though, that they manage the handsome look even while he is very bearded. That's something that little irks me here. I understand they wanted to let Kili be handsome, but it wasn't necessary to make him pretty and shiny. Bearded men can look very good too.

As a metal fan I should know this. Evil

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:15pm

Post #263 of 601 (11561 views)
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Dwarves are ugly because they are not Illuvatar's children. [In reply to] Can't Post

They are imperfect creations of Aule. Not ugly, but they certainly shouldn't compare to the beauty of elves...


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:19pm

Post #264 of 601 (11624 views)
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Actually, Kili being handsome is not the problem here [In reply to] Can't Post

It's him being a wrong kind of handsome.

Fili looks pretty agreeable to me too, but he still keeps that Dwarven look.

Tolkien isn't very keen on describing his characters in minute detail (do the Elves have pointy ears, anyone?) but he does make it clear that Dwarves are short, strongly built and have beards. He doesn't say they're ugly. Now, this Kili here is tall, slim and pretty unbearded. That's the problem, not his handsome face.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


R11
Lorien

Jul 12 2011, 10:19pm

Post #265 of 601 (11612 views)
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Well now [In reply to] Can't Post

It has nothing to do with knitting. What it does have to do with is a number of women getting hot and bothered over a Dwarf! Yes, a Dwarf! That in itself should tell you something is not right... Dwarves are short and stout, with heavy features. I think it's safe to say that when you have a Dwarf women are swooning over, and has nicer hair than Arwen, something has gone off the tracks somewhere Smile.


ron


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 10:23pm

Post #266 of 601 (11498 views)
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I never said they should look the same [In reply to] Can't Post

but,,, they shouldn't be handsome. At least I dont think they should imho. They were not part of Iluvitar's plan for the earth. It has been a while since I read the story, so I can't go into it, other than to say, they weren't meant to be. They were created by an eager Valar who didn't have the skill to create a new race, hence their short stature and, in my opinion at least, their physical shortcomings relating to beauty.

Anyway, it's just my opinion.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:24pm

Post #267 of 601 (11564 views)
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Eh, NO [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves aren't "imperfect". There's no mention of them being any worse than Elves or Men in any kind. And they're Children of Ilúvatar too, because Eru adopted them.

They're short in stature, and strongly built to be able to survive the dangers of Arda Marred. That's the reason for their distinctive looks: that they would be strong, and because Aulë wasn't quite sure how the Children are *exactly* going to look like.

Saying they're ugly because they're imperfect is like saying they're ugly like Orcs are ugly for their fall of grace. In M-E, being úvanima and losing your beauty is connected to moral decay, and linking Dwarves to this is pretty insulting to us Dwarf-friends.




Sorry if I heated up, I don't mean to be mean. I'm just passionate about this stuff. Smile

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:24pm

Post #268 of 601 (11519 views)
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I like them well enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I'm a little surprised at the look of Kili, it is nothing to make me stay out of theaters, cursing PJ all the way. Tongue

The attitudes they project from this one picture seem right for a couple of young dudes out to take back the ancestral home, etc. They look cocky, proud, sure of their skill, and if they are also easy on the eyes from a human female point of view, I can live with that. Cool



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 10:25pm

Post #269 of 601 (11478 views)
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Excellent point. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although, to be strictly accurate, Eru made it all--even Morgoth and the Balrogs. And they wouldn't win any beauty contests.

Permanent address: Into the West





sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 10:25pm

Post #270 of 601 (11533 views)
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Well, there's a certain archetype that the dwarves express.... [In reply to] Can't Post

They're miners, craftsmen, warriors, hardy and resilient folk. That already imposes certain traits on their appearance. People who lead hard lives (even young people) never looked well groomed and smooth faced the way young good looking actors and models do. And moreover, dwarves specifically embody the archetype of old age and its qualities, wisdom, stalwartness, irascibility. They're kin to Rocks and Mountains, the oldest elements in the world. They don't have beards for nothing. So even younger dwarves have to reflect that in their appearance in some way. These are the defining characteristics of the whole race. Of course it all depends on your decision of "handsome", and if it includes "dignified, noble and distinguished looking" than yes, dwarves can be handsome, if however it means Robert Pattinson from Twilight, than they most definitely aren't.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:27pm

Post #271 of 601 (11412 views)
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No, no, no [In reply to] Can't Post

Morgoth and the fire spirits were beautiful too in their original form. Only their moral fall from grace made them incabable of taking fair form. Eru didn't make them ugly.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 12 2011, 10:27pm

Post #272 of 601 (11479 views)
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Well, we're actually in full agreement then. [In reply to] Can't Post

Just saying. Smile


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 10:28pm

Post #273 of 601 (11663 views)
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Or maybe someone in the PJ camp realised they're making a film [In reply to] Can't Post

and need to include at least one attractive main character. Just a stab in the dark...

In an ensemble of 13 lumpy dwarves I'm happy to "take the hit" as it were and have one good-looking one. Besides, has Tolkien ever described what a very young dwarf looks like?

* crunch *


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 10:29pm

Post #274 of 601 (11576 views)
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And there is a "hubba hubba" coming from the direction of Texas, too! [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool

Permanent address: Into the West





redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 10:29pm

Post #275 of 601 (11620 views)
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It would have been better had he been a little closer looking to Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

If you look at Fili he looks the least dwarven of the others (excluding Kili) but still maintains a handsome look and can still pass for a dwarf and I find him completely believable as one of the youngest dwarves. I would find Kili just as believable had they done something similar but the thing is that Aidan has too fair of a face. He has a much more "GQ" look than O'Gorman.

Maybe this is how he starts the journey and throughout the film his beard gets longer. I HOPE that happens.

Again it's not the end of the world but it feels like they are trying to put a male megan fox in the film (although Turner is probably 10,000 xs better actor)

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:31pm

Post #276 of 601 (11715 views)
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Not expecting? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm wondering, what people were really expecting.

Because the minute I saw the faces of those actors, I saw this coming.

Especially after they replaced poor Rob with a very similar looking actor. The look certainly was important to them.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 10:31pm

Post #277 of 601 (11663 views)
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Hah! Maybe that's why Legolas is there... [In reply to] Can't Post

he's handsome enough for all of them.

Permanent address: Into the West





weaver
Half-elven

Jul 12 2011, 10:33pm

Post #278 of 601 (11773 views)
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I'm kind of putting this in the same category as casting Frodo as young, rather than middle aged... [In reply to] Can't Post

...well young to the eye of the average movie goer (you can always argue Frodo was old but just looked young in the films...)

I was not here when the first shots of Elijah Wood came out, but I imagine when those images hit, there was similar consternation on these boards -- there are still some comments made about his age, even today, actually.

Not everyone agreed with casting a "young Frodo", but the film makers had definite reasons for that choice, I think largely because visually a young Frodo could pull of the "martyr" role better than a middle aged guy. He just looks more like a lamb going to the slaughter, you know?

I'm trusting there is some decent thinking behind all of their choices, including these "hot dwarves" -- for plot, practical, money or studio purposes -- whatever. They must think this look will work, so let's see how it plays out..

Don't know if this helps you Patty, but I thought I'd try! You were so disappointed in the Blu Ray, I hate to have you deal with dwarf depression on top of that! Smile

Weaver




Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 10:34pm

Post #279 of 601 (11662 views)
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PJ and Co... [In reply to] Can't Post

They had to know this would cause a bit of controversy with fans when they finalized the look? Surely they knew Tolkien fans would be a bit taken aback by these looks? I'm just wondering what their thought process was here? Besides let's make a couple of young, good-looking dwarves that the ladies can drool over...I would think at this point, PJ would try to avoid naysayers at every point possible, but I assume he's still a renegade filmmaker, eh?

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 10:35pm

Post #280 of 601 (11685 views)
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I know [In reply to] Can't Post

It's almost as if they're making a blockbuster movie with mass appeal or some crazy nonsense! Wink

* crunch *


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 10:39pm

Post #281 of 601 (11595 views)
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I completely agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not what I was expecting, but I feel pretty bad for PJ as well. Nothing he does will please all, and as I've said before it's a lose-lose for him, since he can't please everyone on every decision. But then again, how does that quote go, never feel sorry for a man who owns a plane?

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:40pm

Post #282 of 601 (11775 views)
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Eh, if you like that type. [In reply to] Can't Post

To be honest, Legolas never did anything for me.

But neither did Aragorn, for that matter.

Oddly enough, nobody in the LOTR films really flipped my lid, as far as "eye candy" went.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 10:41pm

Post #283 of 601 (11786 views)
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I was expecting more prosthesis and hair on the face... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I still like them, the more I see them. I don't hate their looks, just different...

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 10:41pm

Post #284 of 601 (11643 views)
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Thank you, Weaver... [In reply to] Can't Post

Heart

Actually, I'm sorry that Kili looks un-Dwarf like (although, I personally never had any issues with Elijah's age), fortunately for me, I was never as married to The Hobbit as I was to LotR, so I'm enjoying the ride with it and not too affected with changes. It is what it is, and as long as they don't make Rivendell and Hobbiton look other than a rough estimate of their already established LotR looks (only 60 years earlier) I'm kinda good.

Now, if they would just offer an alternate EE blu without all that dark overlay all would be good in Middle-earth, even if the dragon looks like Kangi Ska's picture of Pete the Dragon. Sly

Permanent address: Into the West





Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 10:43pm

Post #285 of 601 (11609 views)
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Great point, isaac [In reply to] Can't Post

These are promo shots. I guarantee they'll all be different to some degree once the movies are in the can. Remember how much Gimli's look changed over the 3 LOTR films; even in the footage that wasn't cut.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:43pm

Post #286 of 601 (11672 views)
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Fili is a good-looking fella too [In reply to] Can't Post

But he still passes for a Dwarf. Kili? Not so much. I'm comfortable with the idea of having a few reasonably attractive Dwarves in these films, as long as their attractiveness does not make them look un-Dwarvish – or in this case, Elvish.

According to Tolkien, all Dwarves are born with beards, and any Dwarf whose beard was shaved off would die of shame. I'm afraid that any attempt to squeeze five-o'-clock-shadow Kili into the logical lattice of Tolkien's legendarium is a bit of a dead end...


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 10:43pm

Post #287 of 601 (11797 views)
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Too hunky!? I can fix that! [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's see...all we gotta do is stick a respectable sized nose on him, throw in some black fluff in the chinnish region, oh and of course we simply must expand that scrawny waistline of his. Now he can officially be called a dwarf! http://i52.tinypic.com/2eqcjuw.jpg

P.S. Pay no attention to Starfish, he's beyond help at this point.



(This post was edited by Richie Rich on Jul 12 2011, 10:46pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 10:46pm

Post #288 of 601 (11595 views)
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And oddly enough... [In reply to] Can't Post

Not one of us is a squealy teenaged fangirl! Cool



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 10:48pm

Post #289 of 601 (11672 views)
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Haha, thanks for the laugh of the day... [In reply to] Can't Post

Frightening mental image indeed...Shocked

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


weaver
Half-elven

Jul 12 2011, 10:53pm

Post #290 of 601 (11619 views)
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you're welcome...and you know... [In reply to] Can't Post

....I imagine there are some folks who will go to The Hobbit who haven't seen dwarves since Snow White...so breaking the dwarf model might not be all bad, as there are a lot of stereotypes/biases out there that could really keep some folks from getting into Tolkien's story...Kili is breaking new ground here!

I hope that they reissue all the films in a the super, overextended, immortal version for you someday where you can make the color exactly what you want and adjust the "dwarviness" of the characters to your personal preference!Smile

Weaver




Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 10:59pm

Post #291 of 601 (11760 views)
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I made a better picture [In reply to] Can't Post

As several people have already noted, it's obvious that the filmmakers are trying to make Ori look like a bit of a plonker, so why not go all the way?

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4094/dwarves.jpg


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 11:02pm

Post #292 of 601 (11678 views)
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Now that's more like it LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

And just to think that i thought that Bilbo was gonna be the only good looking character in that group of travelers. Laugh


rings7
Rohan


Jul 12 2011, 11:03pm

Post #293 of 601 (11691 views)
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I don't get it. What's wrong with Ori? [In reply to] Can't Post

Never mind. I hadn't read the rest of your post.


(This post was edited by rings7 on Jul 12 2011, 11:06pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 11:07pm

Post #294 of 601 (11584 views)
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Hey, I like it, I like it! / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West





Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 11:09pm

Post #295 of 601 (11611 views)
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Help, I've been imprisoned by a messageboard thread! [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been tied to this thread for hours and can't get away!
Y'all know what ? You're such interesting friends.Angelic I have discussed Kili's looks here actually for HOURS!

Permanent address: Into the West





Theodred
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 11:14pm

Post #296 of 601 (11623 views)
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You might find this interview with Aidan Turner from February 20th a very interesting read, [In reply to] Can't Post

as you all have seen now how Kili probably will appear in the movie:

You were sporting a pretty impressive beard at the Hobbit press conference. Is that for Kili?
AIDAN TURNER: Yeah, it is. I’m growing out the beard. We’re giving it a chance, seeing what it looks like.

Is that how Peter Jackson plans to make you less handsome and more dwarf-like?
To de-handsomify me? [Laughs] No, not really. I mean, famously in the books, the dwarves have really long beards, so we’re just trying stuff out and seeing what it looks like.

Are you in “hobbit boot camp” now?
Yeah. Well, it’s dwarf boot camp, not really hobbit boot camp. It’s just all dwarves—training and stuff.


Code


http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/
http://www.widgetbox.com/widget/the-hobbit-news-widget-ronald_40


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 12 2011, 11:22pm

Post #297 of 601 (11510 views)
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Are you suggesting [In reply to] Can't Post

the picture shows Aidan with his own beard, they later decided that didn't work, and pasted on the biggest beard ever, that we have yet to see?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 11:25pm

Post #298 of 601 (11576 views)
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Me too... [In reply to] Can't Post

My girlfriend shouted at me earlier "put the laptop down!!" she's asleep now, coz it's half twelve, so I sneakily picked it up again Wink


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jul 13 2011, 12:39am)


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 12 2011, 11:25pm

Post #299 of 601 (11745 views)
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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili looks like a noldor... so what! A little (hot) variety doesnt hurt.
The pic with all of them together looks pretty nice. In there, you can see that the "traditional" dwarves are the ones at the middle, the oldest ones. And the youngest represent the new waves in the dwarf world.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 11:29pm

Post #300 of 601 (11505 views)
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Same here! [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a TV program I was supposed to watch. So much for that program.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 11:30pm

Post #301 of 601 (12350 views)
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Back off! The snarky fire-breathing ginger is mine! ALL MINE!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

**********************************


NARF
NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 11:32pm

Post #302 of 601 (12440 views)
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they just look... human [In reply to] Can't Post

this is the first set of pictures that i don't love.

i sort of understand that they want to get the hunk factor into the hobbit somewhere, but these two just look like normal humans. they don't look bad, they just don't look like dwarves-- especially kili. honestly, i was afraid that they were going to do this with all the dwarves, so the first five reveals were a big relief. but honestly, this photo is a disappointment.

but i absolutely love the previous 5, and fili looks actually not too bad, but kili is just far too hunky for a dwarf.

my concerns when i saw that they cast aidan turner seem to have come to fruition.

oh well.

bring on more dwarves!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 11:33pm

Post #303 of 601 (12514 views)
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Aidan Turner [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder how he is taking this. Naturally, it's not the actor's fault how his character looks like - it's up to PJ and the design team. But remembering how Liv even still sometimes gets bashed for the changes PJ made for her character...

I hope the guy has either the wisdom of his own, or someone wise advising him to not to read these threads.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Theodred
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 11:33pm

Post #304 of 601 (12415 views)
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I just was making you aware of this remarkable interview, [In reply to] Can't Post

because Aidan Turner said he was growing out his beard for Kili, but after seeing the photo of Kili, the opposite seems true: Kili with (almost) no beard. so somewhere down the line PJ felt a beard for Kili probably wasn't working for him I guess.

http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/
http://www.widgetbox.com/widget/the-hobbit-news-widget-ronald_40

(This post was edited by Theodred on Jul 12 2011, 11:38pm)


Brandybuckled
Lorien


Jul 12 2011, 11:36pm

Post #305 of 601 (12329 views)
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Nice. [In reply to] Can't Post

Almost Kha'ili Drogo!

NAArP since 2011*

*Not An Ardent Purist


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 11:37pm

Post #306 of 601 (12367 views)
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I have a feeling the beard in this picture is a work-in-progress... [In reply to] Can't Post

Either he'll have a thicker beard in the film or his beard will grow as the story progresses...


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jul 12 2011, 11:39pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 11:40pm

Post #307 of 601 (12399 views)
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I was thinking the same thing. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I loved Liv's Arwen, and I take every thread opportunity to say so, in case she somehow still gets to know.

Permanent address: Into the West





Geldof the Grey
Registered User

Jul 12 2011, 11:41pm

Post #308 of 601 (12410 views)
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Dwarf-lander [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili looks like he's hitting us with dwarf blue steel!

Seriously this is a bit too much isn't it? I keep seeing comments that Tolkien never described what the dwarves looked like and I'm sure he didn't, but Peter Jackson did establish a "look" for them. No one wants to see thirteen identical Gimlis, but Kili is a bit too far removed from what we already know. He just looks human.

I would like to have seen Alan Lee and John Howe's faces when PJ sprung this one on them. I bet they swallowed their paintbrushes.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 12 2011, 11:43pm

Post #309 of 601 (12157 views)
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Well, don't quack too loudly or you'll wake her up./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Permanent address: Into the West





Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 11:48pm

Post #310 of 601 (12294 views)
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I love her too! [In reply to] Can't Post

And firmly belief the inclusion of her story from the Appendices to the main saga was exactly the right choice. Tolkien would have approved.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 12 2011, 11:48pm

Post #311 of 601 (12381 views)
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Tolkien DID describe them... anyone who says otherwise is in denial. [In reply to] Can't Post

Fili and Kili are described as short and fat with yellow beards, blue hoods and silver belts. Dori, Ori, Nori, Oin and Gloin however, are not described beyond the colour of their hoods.


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jul 12 2011, 11:50pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 12 2011, 11:49pm

Post #312 of 601 (12374 views)
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I don't understand your logic, I guess [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't understand how appreciating the good looks of an actor or actress translates into abandoning all loyalty to Tolkien. Surely you're not going to tell me that anyone of the male persuasion who thinks Liv Tyler or Miranda Otto are hot are traitors to the books?

So, yes, even by including only "a particular group expressing their glee over his steamy appeal" you are painting a very broad brush to take that and draw a very specific conclusion like the one you're drawing about females here at TORn. We don't have anything to prove, but if you know half of us even half as well as we deserve, you would know that none of us deserve that harsh judgment.

I hope you never stumble upon a good Estrogen Island session here (which, by the way, doesn't include a LOTR book-burning), as we'll all sorely disappoint you, as will the lads here who like a good Testosterone Tower thread. Cool


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



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Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 11:50pm

Post #313 of 601 (12342 views)
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A little correction to the above [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm in no way accusing anyone of bashing Turner. No such sentimentals have appeared here. I shouldn't have even brought the subject into the discussion, as it's ultimately secondary. The mere fact that many fans are reacting negatively to his character must be hard for the actor.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 12 2011, 11:52pm

Post #314 of 601 (12365 views)
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skinny dwarves? [In reply to] Can't Post

it's my understanding that dwarves don't start out thin and then get "fat", but that the dwarvish race is a naturally stocky race.

elephants don't start out skinny then get fat, they always look like elephants, and always have that same basic elephant shape.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 11:52pm

Post #315 of 601 (12347 views)
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awesome pics [In reply to] Can't Post

They're perfect young dwarves and people really need to get over the beards, they'll probably get longer as the journey goes on anyway.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 12 2011, 11:52pm

Post #316 of 601 (12257 views)
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Come to think of it... [In reply to] Can't Post

Kili does look a little Ted Theodore Logan... Hmm...


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 12 2011, 11:54pm

Post #317 of 601 (12319 views)
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Me too! [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, this shows the real progression of the dwarf lifespan if you will. I could totally see young dwarves starting out fairly "normal" looking, just small(and to be honest the only thing we really know about Tolkien's dwarves is they have beards and they are short and kind of stocky, other than that there is no reason to think they aren't as individual as humans are and some humans are sort of squat and ugly and some are tall and beautiful and some are small and beautiful and some are tall and ugly, etc, etc, etc).

Aule was after originally making them to be similar to Iluvatar's creations, IIRC - Elves and Men(actually didn't dwarves come before Men? I can't remember but I supposed the Valar knew men were coming some day by that point), he didn't set out to make squat little rough guys, they just didn't turn out quite how he planned them too, because he didn't have Iluvatar's abilities. So I'd imagine they might look alright to start and then sort of start looking more stereotypically "dwarvish" as they age.

To be honest I tend to think that the Gimli-like dwarves are probably considered the hotties of the dwarf world and while we may think "Oh look at Kili and Fili, how adorable" they are probably thought of as being not great looking by OTHER dwarves(at least not yet, they are, at this point in their lives, basically little more than teenagers) . Sort of like Marilyn from The Munsters. LOL (If anyone hasn't seen it, it's a comedy from the 60's based on the idea of Frankenstein's monster, Dracula, dracula's daughter being a family with the monster and the daughter's son being a wolf boy - they have a young niece who lives with them named Marilyn who is very pretty blonde girl, to human eyes, but they are always feeling bad for her because, to their eyes, she's very plain. :) )

Basically I could even see it being played for a bit of a joke, about how the "goodlooking" dwarves are actually "ugly".

Though I guess maybe this explains all that ribbing Aidan Turner took about "sex appeal" in that charity video. :)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 12 2011, 11:54pm

Post #318 of 601 (12257 views)
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'The Hobbit: Fili and Kili's Excellent Adventure'? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 12:08am

Post #319 of 601 (12249 views)
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But Liv Tyler and Miranda Otto's characters are described as fair in the books... // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 12:10am

Post #320 of 601 (12343 views)
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Testosterone Tower? [In reply to] Can't Post

As what is presumably the diametric counterpart of Estrogen Island (or Oestrogen Island, as I prefer to call it), wouldn't a good Testosterone Tower thread involve male Tornadoes fawning over attractive female actresses? If so, I don't think we've actually had any of those – as far as I can recall, the announcements of Evangeline Lilly and Cate Blanchett didn't result in an any 'approving males vs disapproving females' arguments (whose inverse R11 seems to see here). Unless by 'Testosterone Tower sessions' you mean those threads where some of us enthusiastically discussed the merits of a crusty old Thorin not aimed towards the female sector of the audience. Angelic


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 12:20am

Post #321 of 601 (12359 views)
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I'd rather have the hunk [In reply to] Can't Post

than that twisted creature Wink

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 12:20am

Post #322 of 601 (12325 views)
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Definitely hormones [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, I'm going to pull out the girl card too and say 'Hubba Hubba' here.

When the cast list started coming out I kept hoping we'd get to see the faces of some of these actors, and it looks like we will be able to. Yup, I'm a wee bit shallow on this point, but I was not looking foward to seeing 13 pairs of eyes staring out of fuzzy faces for two whole films.


But I do have to wonder about the Middle-earth Cosmo pose and the obvious advertising for Lothlorien Beauty Care products going on here.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 12:22am

Post #323 of 601 (12362 views)
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It didn't stand a chance [In reply to] Can't Post

although it apparently was given.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:22am

Post #324 of 601 (12353 views)
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I've thought this for a while now [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...That these two rascals are the new Merry-Pippin duo for The Hobbit. Wink


I really thought everything about what they seemed to be casting for said "Merry and Pippin of the Hobbit" and it also makes sense, given how they end up - that he might particularly want to make the audience get to know and feel for them so the ending will have some poignancy and affect..


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 12:22am

Post #325 of 601 (12364 views)
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I agree with your assessment of Fili [In reply to] Can't Post

It seems like people are mostly posting about Kili not looking dwarven enough, but I agree with you, Fili looks suitably dwarven to me.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:29am

Post #326 of 601 (12267 views)
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They may not all start out pretty... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I am not one to complain. I generally like what PJ comes up with. But Killi is down right terrible! Other than the large ears he looks 100% human. I am all for variety but they should at least look like they belong to the same race. But he doesn't. Unless his daddy got busy with a human or elf.

And I don't buy the " it's be cause they are young" argument either. Because by that logic all dwarves start out pretty and as they age they get dwarf like? Come on!Unsure

At the very least they have sweet weapons.


They may not all start out as pretty but they may well all start out fairly slender and smooth faced. Actually the funny thing about Kili is, to be I can "see his uncle in him". I mean I could imagine a young Thorin having dark hair like that and sort of glare like the one Kili is wearing.

How often do you see a picture of someone as a teenager and they look all young and freshfaced and then you see them 30 years later and they are fat and gruff and it's like "How did that handsome quarterback end up....like this?" or "How did that pretty cheerleader end up looking like Nurse Ratchett?" I don't see why dwarves should go through less of a change than humans might. I mean I bet all the fat hobbits didn't start out fat, they started out as those adorable little kiddies like we saw at the beginning of Fellowship of the Rings.


nenyacaster
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 12:32am

Post #327 of 601 (12172 views)
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good [In reply to] Can't Post

I like these styles; variety is good. I'm sure that the dwarves are capable of making scissors and razors to cut beards if they so choose to. A population is never without exceptions.


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 12:33am

Post #328 of 601 (12193 views)
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I wasn't around the forum during the LOTR time, so [In reply to] Can't Post

what exactly happened to Liv Tyler? Was she on the boards and saw all the heat on her or what?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:37am

Post #329 of 601 (12161 views)
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ROFL! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your posts are few, Richie Rich, but always memorable! :D

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkfalz
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 12:39am

Post #330 of 601 (12161 views)
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The first major mis-step [In reply to] Can't Post

Patently ridiculous. Epic failure. Words cannot express how bad Kili looks. Like he's from a completely different universe/race to the rest of them.

This also gives them scope to put in all sorts of jokes about him being the "pretty one" (un-Tolkien humour, that is).

Jackson is mostly competent but every once in a while takes a stupidly bad idea and runs with it (eg Arwen). I guess in any behind the scenes PJ will explain it away by suggesting the dwarven aging process is what makes the older ones (and Gimli) have the exaggerated noses, eyebrows and so on (sort of like acromegaly I guess) - having a 6 o'clock shadow with completely normal human/elven features (minus the out of place ears) and windswept hair is a big slap in the face to every fan of the book.


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 12:39am

Post #331 of 601 (12261 views)
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*chokes* [In reply to] Can't Post

LOL!

Although I suppose that the Dwarves that attended Elrond's Council were the elders, while the Dwarves Thorin picked for his little adventure were for the most part the best warriors he could find? Well, maybe not Bombur . . . but I can believe that the youngest ones might not have filled out yet. I was pretty scrawny in my own youth :)

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Jul 13 2011, 12:42am)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 12:42am

Post #332 of 601 (12171 views)
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Seriously i second this [In reply to] Can't Post

some people do find this hard to swallow. But you wouldn't expect 13 ugly (aka Gimli) looking dwarfs for these two movies. That would not be attractive for the viewers. 13 characters are too many to not have "pretty" ones among them. This is Hollywood and Hollywood is eye candy wherever you look at it. So many comments i read somewhere else about how much they love the looks of the dwarfs and the amount of desire to see them in action is increasing. Isn't that the whole purpose?


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:44am

Post #333 of 601 (12140 views)
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Yes. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
wouldn't a good Testosterone Tower thread involve male Tornadoes fawning over attractive female actresses?



And not necessarily actresses from LOTR or The Hobbit either. (Although Miranda Otto and Liv Tyler did get more than their fair share of screentime.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Darkfalz
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 12:44am

Post #334 of 601 (12170 views)
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Sigh [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
When the cast list started coming out I kept hoping we'd get to see the faces of some of these actors, and it looks like we will be able to. Yup, I'm a wee bit shallow on this point, but I was not looking foward to seeing 13 pairs of eyes staring out of fuzzy faces for two whole films.


Sorry, but Tolkien wasn't meant to be Twilight. I dunno if we can immediately blame PJ on this, I'd say Fran and Phillipa are probably more to blame.

Granted, the hobbits (especially Frodo) looked way too "pretty" compared to illustrations we've seen in the past, but Kili is just not in the same realm of reality as the rest of them.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 13 2011, 12:56am)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 12:46am

Post #335 of 601 (12091 views)
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In one of the FOTR appendices [In reply to] Can't Post

she makes the comment that she made the mistake of looking at fan websites to see what they were saying, and came away in tears. We don't know if that was during filming or after FOTR was released, or which websites she went to.

However it's clear from the appendices that the change in direction for Arwen began with Liv and Philippa talking over dinner, and Pete also came to the same conclusion. The Arwen change wasn't prompted by fan reaction to the rumours of XenArwen.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:56am

Post #336 of 601 (12078 views)
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But... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
yes, but these so called " heart throb" or "hunky" dwarves could have at leastly look more like Dwarves, not these armoured up man-child things that look like they are workin for the middle earth fashion industry...


Fili and Kili ARE man-children(or "dwarf-children") - they are basically the dwarvish equivalent of high school seniors or college students. Fili and Kili are basically little more than kids. And not kids who have been hardened in war - kids who are are going on their 'first adventure"(::sniff::) They are basically dwarvish princes who while I'm sure they've been trained hard by their uncle have also in some ways been very protected.

I do think they could have gone a long to reducing negativity if they'd lost the wind machine though. :) I'm not sure why they went the Pantene commercial route with that.

My theory on that is that after the "shock" of "heartthrob dwarves" with Fili and Kili, they figure it'll make all the other dwarves look that much "better" in comparison for the naysayers. Meanwhile those of us who don't care as much can say "gee, that's one hot dwarf!"(depending on one's personal favorite:))


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 12:57am

Post #337 of 601 (12054 views)
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If you're going to say something like that... [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you at least say "some women?" Some of us here who are women care more about the plot than eye candy. Honestly, what with all the concerns people have about Richard Armitage as being "eye candy," I've had a lot more concerns about Turner being too eye candy, no matter how much I enjoyed watching him in Being Human. I wish they at least used a curly wig, as Turner's naturally curly hair seems to me to look more dwarfish than this straight wig.

I'm hoping that his performance will take precedence over his costuming.

As for Twilight, I'm a woman who thinks it's pure drivel, so clearly, not all women have the same tastes and preferences.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 12:58am

Post #338 of 601 (12090 views)
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Dwarves... [In reply to] Can't Post

I would just like to interject that I really like the look of all the dwarves so far... I love how distinct each one is. Just like I've said before, are these the dwarves i've always imagined? No they are not. Do I still think the new designs are great? Yes, yes I do.

It also appears that many "reactions" seem to be of the"knee-jerk" variety... intial reactions without really taking a look at the pictures before "getting upset".

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


mykonos
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 1:00am

Post #339 of 601 (11944 views)
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I'm not gonna touch that. // [In reply to] Can't Post

Crazy


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:00am

Post #340 of 601 (12109 views)
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Never been described as Vapid before [In reply to] Can't Post

Definitely going to have fun playing against type for once. ;-)

but plot ignorant, couldn't disagree more on that point.


I'm not sure how someone's looks, be it a real person or an actor playing a role, has any effect on plot or characterization.


Like others here, I'm just going to watch 14, sometimes 15, individuals having an adventure in Middle-earth. They will encounter Trolls and Goblins and Wargs and Eagles and Spiders and Elves and wind up stuck outside a mountain trying to figure out how to get inside without being killed by a Dragon, and in the end, all that matters is how they all get through that together, not what they looked like while doing it.


I kinda think that 'vapid' claim belongs to all those who are so wrapped up in the look of the characters, that they forget there will be a performance aspect to the character.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


squire
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:04am

Post #341 of 601 (12046 views)
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Come up, the view is great [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not the kind of tradition that holds up to weekly sessions, of course. But perhaps you missed last fall's session?

And just to ... well, no reason, really. But here:




Cate! "Hmm... wonder how that Necromancer necks?"


Angel! "Hey, Leggy! Want to hunt some p--- um, some orc?"

And sadly missed, especially in the Dwarf-bathing scene in the Great River:

Miranda! "Hey Treebeard! Got wood?"



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:09am

Post #342 of 601 (12006 views)
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Ya think? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Countless directors have had to handle making twelve beardy apostles unique and recognisable, i'm sure 13 dwarves isn't that much of an issue.Laugh

Dr Death


Most of the time in all those Life of Jesus movies, the only one who actually stands out is Peter and maybe Judas, otherwise the rest tend to blend into a gang of dark haired guys in long tunics.

So actually no most directors do NOT manage, imo, to differentiate between 12 disciples, most fail pretty miserably and after their initial introductions they mostly just blend into a group, aside from maybe one or two, perhaps 3 standouts.

Thus I can see why PJ would have a difficult job ahead of him. :)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:11am

Post #343 of 601 (11990 views)
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sigh back [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a woman and i hate Twilight. I also care a lot more about the performances of all these actors than how they look. They can be cannon and look the perfect dwarfs and suck at acting.


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:15am

Post #344 of 601 (12040 views)
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13th Warrior did it fairly well [In reply to] Can't Post

The only film with a large band of warriors who were all supposed to look like warriors that I've seen that did this well was 13th Warrior.

You have Antonio Banderas, beardless, and 12 Vikings who all looked uniquely different to each other, and yet, all a part of the same culture. Some had more facial hair than others, some had tattoos, a few were gigantic, their armor was different, etc. They all worked well together and yet each had unique weapons and duties that all complimented the others.

It is this paradigm that I am hoping PJ achieves in filming this group.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 1:16am

Post #345 of 601 (11991 views)
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My goodness, 15 pages already? [In reply to] Can't Post

All because of a very short bearded dwarf who looks like a young Elrond in a bad hair day? Sly

Well Aidan Turner always stated hat we was growing a beard for the film if I remember it correctly...


(This post was edited by Ruijor on Jul 13 2011, 1:17am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:18am

Post #346 of 601 (12009 views)
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I said the same. [In reply to] Can't Post

They both, and especially Aidan, look like half-Elves who offended Saruman one time to many and had a shrinking spell placed on them as a consequence.

That said, I DO love the fact that at least Fili has the yellow hair and beard the books described. I was hoping for the same for Kili, just as I still hope for a blue bearded Dwalin. Balin already seems to have the proper white beard. Only five of the Dwarves actually get an explicit physical description in The Book, so those five might as well have their descriptions well adhered to.

In Reply To
These are the first two I'm a little worried about, Kili looks downright elvish to me...

I'm not going to judge until I see them in action tho


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 1:23am

Post #347 of 601 (11998 views)
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I do agree with much of what you say here. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was always a little more concerned about how Turner would turn out than Armitage. I really think that they "cleaned" Turner up too much in this picture for him to be Gimli's "fully armed and filthy" statement. Couldn't they have at least kept Turner in curly hair? Curly hair seems so much more dwarfish than these sliken tresses. Or even dreads.

I still don't think dwarves have to look as specificly Gimli-ish as you prefer, but Kili doesn't come across as dwarf. He comes across as a short human.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 1:26am

Post #348 of 601 (12040 views)
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--> Sub-thread removed for veering off into personal territory... please move on. Thanks! // [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:28am

Post #349 of 601 (11924 views)
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Where is... [In reply to] Can't Post

...this Estrogen Island you speak of? I keep hearing about it, but I've never been able to find it. :)


In Reply To
I don't understand how appreciating the good looks of an actor or actress translates into abandoning all loyalty to Tolkien. Surely you're not going to tell me that anyone of the male persuasion who thinks Liv Tyler or Miranda Otto are hot are traitors to the books?

So, yes, even by including only "a particular group expressing their glee over his steamy appeal" you are painting a very broad brush to take that and draw a very specific conclusion like the one you're drawing about females here at TORn. We don't have anything to prove, but if you know half of us even half as well as we deserve, you would know that none of us deserve that harsh judgment.

I hope you never stumble upon a good Estrogen Island session here (which, by the way, doesn't include a LOTR book-burning), as we'll all sorely disappoint you, as will the lads here who like a good Testosterone Tower thread. Cool



Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 1:33am

Post #350 of 601 (12016 views)
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Didn't any of YOU learn anything.................. from Gandalf? [In reply to] Can't Post

"Do NOT be too eager to deal out Death and JUDGEMENT, even the Wise (PJ&CO)....can NOT SEE all ends."

xoxoxOB


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 1:37am

Post #351 of 601 (11687 views)
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The curls would have been good [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, they could have kept him just the way he looks IRL and he would have been pretty fine hair-wise.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 1:40am

Post #352 of 601 (11639 views)
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You make some good points, MC Double D! [In reply to] Can't Post

...for me, it seems like with Kili they forgot to adjust his waistline. All the other actors (except maybe Ori, but he still looks stocky) have their belts somewhere that gives the impression that they are actually of a dwarvish build, Aiden Turner appears to have his belt around his actual waist and just looks like a human.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 1:40am

Post #353 of 601 (11654 views)
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You know, I bet that hairdo [In reply to] Can't Post

lasts about one day of camping before he's tying it back or asking for a little braiding assistance from his brother. Speaking as someone with long straight hair, if you're going to rough it in the wilds, braids are the way to go. Wink

Seriously though, while I'm not wildly enthusiastic, I'm still waiting to see all the dwarves together before I form a definite opinion. Context is a very important factor here, as all these characters are going to be more or less milling around in a pack everywhere they go. I'd love a formal shot of Bilbo at the end to add in to the group, too.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 1:41am

Post #354 of 601 (11638 views)
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Good point [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for bringing it up!

I want to have faith he looks more Dwarvish on-screen than in this promo shot.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 1:47am

Post #355 of 601 (11524 views)
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It's a game that appears occasionally on Off Topic [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone will start with a post inviting everyone to Estrogen Island, and the post will contain a picture of a good-looking man, or a link to a picture. Others participate with other pictures. Much giggling and silliness ensues Cool.

Estrogen Island started way back in the early days of TORN when most of the members were men. They had an occasional thread called Testosterone Tower with pictures and the women reacted with Estrogen Island.

Here's a link to the TORN dictionary, which has lots of definitions of some of our obscure terminology Smile


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 1:50am

Post #356 of 601 (11605 views)
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Now that we've seen Kili... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I think that hatted dwarf peering around at Bilbo in the Empire pic is probably Jimmy Nesbitt as Bofur. While I'm at it, the bald dwarf is probably Dwalin, the chap next to him Bifur, and of course Balin with the white hair and beard! If I'm right, the only dwarf we haven't had even the slightest glimpse at is Bombur.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 2:06am

Post #357 of 601 (11559 views)
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I'm not finding that description anywhere in The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Fili and Kili are described as short and fat with yellow beards, blue hoods and silver belts.




I've scoured the text and the only description of Kili (and Fili) I can find is:

yellow beard
blue hat
silver belt
young
keen eyesight

In fact, I can't find anyplace where he describes any of the dwarves as short. Can you point to where Kili is described as short and fat?




Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 13 2011, 2:09am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:20am

Post #358 of 601 (11576 views)
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Hey, I'm watching Twilight: Eclipse at this very moment! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:22am

Post #359 of 601 (11462 views)
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Anime characters? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 2:25am

Post #360 of 601 (11568 views)
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I'm going on 2 hours in this one thread alone! [In reply to] Can't Post

Helllllppppppppp! Shocked


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 2:31am

Post #361 of 601 (11571 views)
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Blue Steel!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love it! Laugh


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:35am

Post #362 of 601 (11625 views)
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Speaking of being "stunned into silence" [In reply to] Can't Post

Miss Lily is going to work out just fine. I predict her and Kili hook up.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:36am

Post #363 of 601 (11602 views)
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Want to wager on that?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:39am

Post #364 of 601 (11582 views)
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Ok a virtual rootbeer says Evangeline will work out just fine ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:45am

Post #365 of 601 (11479 views)
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Rootbeer Yes but [In reply to] Can't Post

I sense you are taking a small step back in regards to her association with Fili.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 2:55am

Post #366 of 601 (11565 views)
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With stakes that high, yes [In reply to] Can't Post

but let's settle this once and for all... is Aiden Turner Fili or Kili? This will be the bane of me. I need a mnemonic, stat!


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 2:58am

Post #367 of 601 (11426 views)
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Turner is Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

For the life of me, I can't come up with a mnemonic. I could with the components of DNA because Adenine and Thymine start with my brother's initials, and Guanine and Cytosine start with my aunt's initials.


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 13 2011, 3:01am

Post #368 of 601 (11551 views)
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HAHA WOW! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm going to say this; They will be my favorite in the bunch without a doubt now :P

I sure they will act like Merry And Pippin and be as awesome as Legolas was ;D, seeing how Kili has a cute small bow and arrow and fili has 2 awesome swords!!!!

This is awesome!


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:06am

Post #369 of 601 (11514 views)
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Yeah, I'm really digging the look of Fili. [In reply to] Can't Post

I like his dual-wielded swords, and the epic look on his face, like "I'm about to start some %*$&". It's Kili I'm unsure about at this point, but it could just be the Fabio-commercial hairdo.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


R11
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 3:07am

Post #370 of 601 (11537 views)
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Of course [In reply to] Can't Post

There's nothing wrong with appreciating the good looks of actors or actresses. But my point was that it seems to fly in the face of Tolkien's vision and story to be so enthusiastic over the appearance of a character who doesn't look much like they're from the race of the character they're supposed to be Smile. I think most people agree that Liv and Miranda fit the looks of their respective roles pretty well, even though both are quite easy on the eyes. I mean, we're talking about a board here where people obsess over minute details, but somehow this rather large oddity is Hunky-Dory (no pun intended of course)? That just surprises me...

Iike I said before, I made the comment after reading a number of comments on PJ's facebook post before reading this thread as well and meant the comment in general and not specifically regarding TORn. And quite honestly I really don't see where this feeling of it's harshness comes from. I'm very surprised that so many seem to have taken it that way and think I was being judgmental to tell you the truth.

I hope I don't stumble into one of your sessions. You know I've got images in my head of sharks with blood in the water already! Shocked Cool


ron


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 3:11am

Post #371 of 601 (11352 views)
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Aha! "Will Ki-ss Li-ly" might work... your move Kangi XD // [In reply to] Can't Post

your move Kangi LaughAngelic


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 3:12am

Post #372 of 601 (11509 views)
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Well, yes... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
So actually no most directors do NOT manage, imo, to differentiate between 12 disciples, most fail pretty miserably and after their initial introductions they mostly just blend into a group, aside from maybe one or two, perhaps 3 standouts.

That's pretty much the way it should be handled for effective storytelling. Anything beyond that is sidetracking for its own sake and to no dramatic purpose.


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 13 2011, 3:13am

Post #373 of 601 (11495 views)
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LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

Haha, his hair is pretty cool though, not all Dwarves have thick hair and plat there hair/bears :P


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 3:23am

Post #374 of 601 (11402 views)
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*plays air guitar* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:28am

Post #375 of 601 (11528 views)
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This thread is a hefty slice of fried gold. [In reply to] Can't Post

Some of the sub-discussions and posts have verged on epic-win. I've definitely gotten my fair share of entertainment today. Laugh

Also, how much do you want to bet that the next batch of dwarves will be properly uglified and hairified? There's a formula to releasing these photos, I just know it!

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 3:32am

Post #376 of 601 (11036 views)
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I'm with you on that. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they're alternating the controversial with the traditional. I'm expecting the B-trio to be short, stocky, and bearded in the best traditional sense...though possibly with a little less on top. We shall see. Smile

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 3:38am

Post #377 of 601 (10979 views)
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Not really the point [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
So actually no most directors do NOT manage, imo, to differentiate between 12 disciples, most fail pretty miserably and after their initial introductions they mostly just blend into a group, aside from maybe one or two, perhaps 3 standouts.

That's pretty much the way it should be handled for effective storytelling. Anything beyond that is sidetracking for its own sake and to no dramatic purpose.


The original posted stated that directors DID differentiate between them with no problem, as an argument for saying that it wouldn't be a problem to differentiate between the dwarves. The rightness or wrongness of that differentiation or lack thereof of was not under discussion. :)

My opinion is that no most of the 12 apostles in films do not look like anything more than a bunch of guys with beards, the directors normally do not do a good job differentiating, which is the opposite of what the original post was saying.

And IMO, there is a dramatic purpose in The Hobbit for at least a few of the dwarves, most particularly Thorin and Fili and Kili but a 2 or 3 of the others as well, to really stand out--so basically at least half the dwarves should be more than just "ah...more dwarves".

Thorin as the "lead dwarf" probably wouldn't be too hard to keep track of but we need to really know who Fili and Kili are so that way when...what happens happens the audience will care and not be like "Oh shame that...now who are they again?" (I'm not sure if that is considered a spoiler seeing as, well, it's in the book and the book has been out for 60 years or so)

And frankly, imo, the best and most balanced way to do that is to give all the dwarves their own looks and personalites.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 13 2011, 3:40am)


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 13 2011, 3:40am

Post #378 of 601 (10932 views)
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Ya, but i don't have anytime reading 10 other pages D: [In reply to] Can't Post

But i'll tell you this, i can already see myself crying at the end of the hobbit for these two characters :'(


northoftheborder
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 3:41am

Post #379 of 601 (11061 views)
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I signed up to TORN to voice my Kili disappointment [In reply to] Can't Post

This is my first post on TORN, even though I have been visiting the site about twice or thrice a week since early last year. I feel moved to voice my thoughts now because of the Kili and Fili photograph. Fili is a bit naff, but he can slide this now if only because Kili is a departure too far. It is hard to gauge much from a solitary photo so let's not be hasty. Yet first impressions are important (especially for $500m movies!) and this first impression is a stinker. With her semi-beard, stout build, and lack of height, my grandmother does a better Kili and dwarf impression than what is being done here. Who made awful decision to portray Kili in this fashion?

I hope The Hobbit in 5 reports upon the mixed and disappointed reaction to the Kili image.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 3:43am

Post #380 of 601 (11012 views)
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At one point this afternoon there were 61 registered users online [In reply to] Can't Post

That's the most I've ever seen. We also had 15 new users sign up so far today though that's not even close to the all-time record of 91 new users in 24 hours in March 2010 when we announced a LOTR Blue-ray giveaway where people had to post their favorite scene in a thread on the boards.

Yes, this day has been interesting and fun, and there's certainly more to come! Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Eldaria
Rivendell


Jul 13 2011, 3:50am

Post #381 of 601 (10937 views)
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Richie Rich [In reply to] Can't Post

Your tweaking of Kili is just what was needed. Now he looks like he actually belongs in the same movie.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:52am

Post #382 of 601 (11032 views)
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Welcome! [In reply to] Can't Post

Your feelings are no doubt shared by many, here and other places on the net. I too was a bit blown-back by Kili when I first saw the picture this morning. At first, I was a little shocked, then a bit confused, then I accepted him, and I'm kind of starting to like him, strange enough. But there is a giant pessimist and cynic in me that says, "yes, some of the people on this board are right: this is all to garner a larger female fanbase that may not have been interested in Tolkien before, and it was probably a joint decision between the filmmakers and the studio suggestions to try to gain a new audience". But I'm trying hard not to let that cynical voice on my shoulder overpower the optimist on my other shoulder saying: "Peter knows what he's doing, don't worry about the look of one or two dwarves poison your pre-conceptions of the film, which will most likely be brilliant overall". I can see why some people could hate this design, I totally understand that, and I also understand why some people love it. Kind of strange, but I don't really have any strong opinions on them otherwise, except that I liked Fili right away as a young dwarf, and I'm curious about Kili. We'll see.

Just as long as the next few don't look like this, I'll be fine:




"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Jul 13 2011, 4:02am)


LordElrond
Rivendell


Jul 13 2011, 3:55am

Post #383 of 601 (10955 views)
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Not what I was expecting [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think by the time the first film is out we will all have accepted the different looks and when we are actually watching it we will be too wrapped up in the story to even bother caring what they look like.


Proudfeet!
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 3:57am

Post #384 of 601 (10903 views)
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Maybe the other Dwarves will tease them [In reply to] Can't Post

Make fun of their slenderness. Lack of beard.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 3:58am

Post #385 of 601 (10911 views)
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IKR? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's what I keep thinking. As someone mentioned above with the comparison with Merry and Pippin, what would it have been like if that had happened to them? Because it's basically the equivalent of that. I'm thinking it's going to pretty heartbreaking. It's really a very tragic situation and they are quite young, for dwarves.

(OK to be honest? I wasn't all that into Merry and Pippin, I might not have cared that much if it had happened to them but still know that part they were playing and that a lot of people DID care about what happened to them, I can already see Fili and Kili having the sort of "journey" I'd care more about anyway and though by nature of the differences between the books, their roles were smaller than Merry and Pippin's, they were two of my favorite dwarves in the book)


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 4:06am

Post #386 of 601 (10989 views)
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I've been reading around a bit [In reply to] Can't Post

And to be honest, overall the reaction to Kili is not bad at all. In some places it's very positive, and in others it's just "Hey they had to differentiate between somehow, and so far the dwarves look cool and have great weapons"

So yeah I have to say even on more "male" dominated general entertainment sites(as opposed to more female dominated general entertainment sites) the response, from what I can tell, hasn't really been that negative, it's probably been even better than I thought it would be, going by some of the reactions here.

Many people commenting seem to be excited about seeing them, looking forward to more and think the dwarves, as a whole, look cool, even while maintaining individual styles that range from "typical dwarf" to "dwarf pretty boy". :)

To me that is exactly the reaction to the photos that have been released all during the past week SHOULD be getting.

It's getting a lot of people excited, from what I can tell, it's making a lot people think seeing a movie with 13 dwarves among the main characters could be very cool. That isn't remotely a bad thing.


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 13 2011, 4:08am)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 4:12am

Post #387 of 601 (10945 views)
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I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I'm definitely not going over to AICN.com to see what they're saying in the talkback, because I can already guess, and they'll say it with some colorful language.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


rings7
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 4:12am

Post #388 of 601 (10945 views)
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I bet Thorin's pic will be the longest thread. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 13 2011, 4:13am

Post #389 of 601 (10875 views)
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Yeah! [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you 100%.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 4:21am

Post #390 of 601 (10920 views)
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Definitely! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Although I'm definitely not going over to AICN.com to see what they're saying in the talkback, because I can already guess, and they'll say it with some colorful language.


I stopped visiting that place so long ago(for just those reasons), I forgot it was still around. :)

But yeah, my own personal preferences aside(hey I won't pretend I'm not perfectly happy seeing more of Aidan Turner's real face:)) - I was concerned about "general reaction", because I want the films to be good and do well. I'm so glad to see that, mostly, people seem to be getting really excited.

The first place I saw the Fili/Kili pic posted was on ONTD and the reaction was almost completely positive. Yes it was a lot of women commenting but the point is, they were getting excited about seeing the film. And Dean O'Gorman had his fair share of "Oh I've loved him since he was Young Iolaus in Hercules!". The reason was similarly positive for the previous picture releases too(though obviously with less "That dwarf could GET IT!" type comments:))

All the photos taken as a whole, by perhaps slightly less serious fans than here, seem to have had the cumulative effect of exciting people for the film. And really, this is a GOOD thing.

So basically this makes me think that whoever decided to release the photos like this is a marketing genius. :D


(This post was edited by marillaraina on Jul 13 2011, 4:23am)


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 4:24am

Post #391 of 601 (10796 views)
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OK, agreeing halfway [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My opinion is that no most of the 12 apostles in films do not look like anything more than a bunch of guys with beards, the directors normally do not do a good job differentiating, which is the opposite of what the original post was saying.

And IMO, there is a dramatic purpose in The Hobbit for at least a few of the dwarves, most particularly Thorin and Fili and Kili but a 2 or 3 of the others as well, to really stand out--so basically at least half the dwarves should be more than just "ah...more dwarves".

My point was that "a bunch of guys with beards" generally is enough differentiation to the purpose of the story for the basis of the apostles, with the 5 or so that rise to real importance to be developed more fully.

Distinguishing the looks of each dwarf is all well and good, but I'm still of the opinion that the group en-masse benefits from being confusing and perplexing to the viewer.

But as to actual character development, my main fear is that we wind up getting hit over the head with an unending string of thirteen different variations of sub-par dialog scenes along the lines of what Kangi posted in his "Fili and Kili - audition" thread, all just in order to say: "OK, this is the rakish pair of young brothers;" "These are the mature merchants concerned with getting a return on their investment;" "This one is the rebel who is challenging authority;" etc., etc. That kind of stuff is just filler. It formed the weakest parts of the LotR films, and as much time as it ate up in those, it has the potential to really multiply with thirteen dwarves.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 4:39am

Post #392 of 601 (10838 views)
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OK [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
My opinion is that no most of the 12 apostles in films do not look like anything more than a bunch of guys with beards, the directors normally do not do a good job differentiating, which is the opposite of what the original post was saying.

And IMO, there is a dramatic purpose in The Hobbit for at least a few of the dwarves, most particularly Thorin and Fili and Kili but a 2 or 3 of the others as well, to really stand out--so basically at least half the dwarves should be more than just "ah...more dwarves".

My point was that "a bunch of guys with beards" generally is enough differentiation to the purpose of the story for the basis of the apostles, with the 5 or so that rise to real importance to be developed more fully.

Distinguishing the looks of each dwarf is all well and good, but I'm still of the opinion that the group en-masse benefits from being confusing and perplexing to the viewer.

But as to actual character development, my main fear is that we wind up getting hit over the head with an unending string of thirteen different variations of sub-par dialog scenes along the lines of what Kangi posted in his "Fili and Kili - audition" thread, all just in order to say: "OK, this is the rakish pair of young brothers;" "These are the mature merchants concerned with getting a return on their investment;" "This one is the rebel who is challenging authority;" etc., etc. That kind of stuff is just filler. It formed the weakest parts of the LotR films, and as much time as it ate up in those, it has the potential to really multiply with thirteen dwarves.


I just can't see how the 'group en masse" benefits from confusing the viewer. That might work in the first big dwarf scene but after that, the audience of movie viewers tends to either just ignore what they can't differentiate between or they get annoyed by it and I can't see either of those things benefitting the portrayal of the dwarves.

IMO, unless it's a suspense thriller, it's not a very good idea to "perplex" the viewer too much, least of all in a big budget fantasy adventure film. I can't see how the film would benefit from a gaggle of indistinguishable dwarves, who look about the same, sound about the same and whose ages you can't really tell except if perhaps they have grey hair to make you assume "oh older".

Actually I didn't have a big problem with the dialogue scene Kangi posted for Fili and Kili - it wasn't perfect, definitely could use some polishing and tweeking but I don't think the general idea of it was all that bad. I think all the various groupings of dwarves start out with "this is the rakish young pair" "these are the tight fisted merchants", etc, etc. That's to give people the general idea and then as the story develops they each ot varying degrees develop more unique traits.

I mean parts of this film are meant to be more light. The Empire article and I think the interview with Richard Armitage both mentioned the funny bits and we can't just be laughing AT the dwarves, soemtimes we probably have to laugh with them.

Personally I don't know, just looking at them in pictures, I'm already feeling really fond of all these guys and frankly I don't think I'd feel that way "en masse"


stormcrow20
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 4:55am

Post #393 of 601 (10841 views)
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Out of place. [In reply to] Can't Post

I became accustomed to Nori and his hair within a few hours....I even grew to like it. This is going to take quite a bit longer.

I'm fine with younger dwarves. I approve and want a variety of unique dwarves. I can even accept that some will be somewhat attractive. And from the blurry Bag End photo, Thorin is even acceptable. But this just doesn't jive. The only dwarven feature on Fili is the braids, and Kili looks entirely human to me.

If this photo of Kili were released on its own with no name given, and we did not already know which character Aidan Turner is playing....what is there to say he is a dwarf (aside from the ears, perhaps)? Even their costumes seem less dwarvish than the others. Looking at all of them in the combined edit, Fili and Kili just look out of place. All of the previously revealed dwarves have a very dwarvish feel to them, and have uniquely styled beards, yet Fili and Kili have neither. In my eyes, and as established in Jackson's trilogy, well-trimmed goatees and overgrown stubble are features of men. I don't think any dwarf should have a beard shorter than Gandalf the White, at least.

On a more positive note, I like the weapons....

But all things considered, my excitement for The Hobbit is far from tarnished, and I can't wait to see the rest of the gang!



A greenlight from the shadows shall spring!

(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Jul 13 2011, 5:05am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 5:01am

Post #394 of 601 (10821 views)
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Welcome out of lurkdom and [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wanted you to know that this is why I signed up to TorN as well. It was (as they say) my density...er destiny. Looks like Kili is one of them there Del Toro Monsters I have heard about in these parts. EvilEvilEvil

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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lurtz2010
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 5:10am

Post #395 of 601 (10884 views)
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so how are you feeling about these two dwarves Kangi Ska? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to know


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 5:22am

Post #396 of 601 (10740 views)
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En-masse [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
just can't see how the 'group en masse" benefits from confusing the viewer. That might work in the first big dwarf scene but after that, the audience of movie viewers tends to either just ignore what they can't differentiate between or they get annoyed by it and I can't see either of those things benefitting the portrayal of the dwarves.

Again, I'm going to disagree. The first two-thirds of the book consists of similarly chaotic, mass-mayhem scenes and handling of the dwarves: Dazed Bilbo seeing the dwarves sacked one-by-one by trolls; dwarves captured in a confused gaggle by goblins and run through tunnels; mass of dwarves being run up burning fir trees and carried off by eagles; paraded in re-introduction to a bear-man; spun into cocoons by spiders; stuffed into barrels. Bilbo is constantly trying to rise above the muddle that the dwarves present to him, and so should the viewer be. I'm kind of repeating an older post, but the dwarves in these scnenes form a collective, primarily visual character. Most of them can be mere bodies along for the ride, simply because the scenes wouldn't be as appealing with, say, 5 dwarves. We can disagree whether this is cinematically effective or not (I think it is, and I think TH and LotR are much more cinematic as-written than most seem to give them credit for.) To me, effective writing will gradually differentiate the essential dwarves along the way by a few deft strokes within the context of these scenes rather than by attempting to derail the action with tangents just so the viewer can come to know each dwarf personally.

Of course, I know that many feel differently, as you do, and I think the writing will turn out more to your liking than mine.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 5:26am

Post #397 of 601 (10931 views)
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I am just thankful no one took to trimming Gandalf's beard again. [In reply to] Can't Post

After the damn goatee they gave him for TTT and ROTK, I had a real fear that the boys in hair and makeup might take the more than half century backwards time leap as an excuse to trim his grey beard to half of what it was in Fellowship. So, at this point, if Dwalin sports a blue tinted beard, I will not complain anymore about anything beard related. . . unless an Elf shows up sporting one, or Gandalf's turns out to be much thinner and more scraggly than all the photos suggest.

In Reply To
I became accustomed to Nori and his hair within a few hours....I even grew to like it. This is going to take quite a bit longer.

I'm fine with younger dwarves. I approve and want a variety of unique dwarves. I can even accept that some will be somewhat attractive. And from the blurry Bag End photo, Thorin is even acceptable. But this just doesn't jive. The only dwarven feature on Fili is the braids, and Kili looks entirely human to me.

If this photo of Kili were released on its own with no name given, and we did not already know which character Aidan Turner is playing....what is there to say he is a dwarf (aside from the ears, perhaps)? Even their costumes seem less dwarvish than the others. Looking at all of them in the combined edit, Fili and Kili just look out of place. All of the previously revealed dwarves have a very dwarvish feel to them, and have uniquely styled beards, yet Fili and Kili have neither. In my eyes, and as established in Jackson's trilogy, well-trimmed goatees and overgrown stubble are features of men. I don't think any dwarf should have a beard shorter than Gandalf the White, at least.

On a more positive note, I like the weapons....

But all things considered, my excitement for The Hobbit is far from tarnished, and I can't wait to see the rest of the gang!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 5:39am

Post #398 of 601 (10837 views)
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Disappointed [In reply to] Can't Post

Unsure

I practically worship the ground PJ walks on, and love his trilogy of LotR films, and appreciate & understand the changes he made in those films - but this hurts.

They're just not dwarves. They are shrunken humans, basically. I suppose I'll get over it at some point, but this is genuinely the first time I've ever been disappointed by PJ and Co.

Not cool.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jul 13 2011, 5:40am)


sador
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 6:13am

Post #399 of 601 (10738 views)
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Only according to appendix A of LotR. [In reply to] Can't Post

In The Hobbit, Fili is said to be the youngest and have the best eyesight (drawing that boat in Mirkwood)

"Who saw this coming? Just curious if the laws of deus ex machina applied for everyone’s reading experience."
- Milady



The weekly discussion of The Lord of the Rings is back. Join us in the Reading Room for The Battle of the Pelennor Fields!



Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 6:30am

Post #400 of 601 (10808 views)
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Just blame the studio... [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretend that PJ and the Gang were made to prettify Fili and Kili by WB, and that what we see here is Weta making the best out of a bad situation! I for one don't mind them...in fact I quite like Fili. Kili is ok, and will probably look better on screen.


willowing
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 6:57am

Post #401 of 601 (11228 views)
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Fili and Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

Uncle Thorin's little boy's!


angelocrator
Registered User

Jul 13 2011, 7:02am

Post #402 of 601 (11146 views)
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Awesome! [In reply to] Can't Post

I am actually happy that Weta didn't go the easy route and just did the worn-out D&D design, making dwarves miniature vikings.

Over the last decades, all fantasy authors and artists have just been coying from each other without ever trying to come up with something new in regards to dwarves.
I am really thrilled to see that PJ and his team are bold enough to re-invent dwarves and smash our old, preconcieved notions about how dwarves are supposed to look (and act) like.

Remember that Eomer when he first saw Gimli thought he might be elvish.

After this, dwarves will never be the same again. Mark my words.


(This post was edited by angelocrator on Jul 13 2011, 7:03am)


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 7:02am

Post #403 of 601 (11147 views)
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Hahah! Your levity is admirable :D // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 7:06am

Post #404 of 601 (11229 views)
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I'm tempted to use "Tur-Ki...with no stuffing!" to remember it. Rather appropriate, IMO. ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

**********************************


NARF
NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 7:17am

Post #405 of 601 (11186 views)
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Probably. [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwarves were pretty much pigeon-holed into stereotypical D&D designs, then with the popularity of Gimli, and the rise of games like World of Warcraft, it seems impossible for dwarves to look at all different from what they have been looking like for years now.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


willowing
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 7:20am

Post #406 of 601 (11133 views)
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oh no!...I don't see any problems with the nose. [In reply to] Can't Post

They could well be aiming to keep the movie real nose job or not.Sly


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 13 2011, 7:24am

Post #407 of 601 (11241 views)
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it's not that he's a good lookin' guy... [In reply to] Can't Post

... it's that he (aidan turner) looks about as much like a dwarf in that photo as orlando bloom.

there's more to the trasformation into a dwarf than slapping a couple of altered spock ears, not shaving for a few days, throwing on some cosplay d&d gear, and standing in front of a big fan.

i don't care how many good lookin' guys are in the movies (i love that lotr has so many female fans), and i don't want 13 gimlis running around (loved all the different looks of the other dwarves we've seen so far). you can fill the hobbit with beautiful elves and handsome laketown men as far as i care. but a hobbit should look like a hobbit, a goblin should look like a goblin, and a dwarf should look like a dwarf.


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 7:54am

Post #408 of 601 (11136 views)
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(On Richie Rich's version.....) [In reply to] Can't Post

Curiously enough, that does make Kili look much more dwarf-like! Trouble is, it makes Fili look a bit skinny! Wink

OK. I've slept on it, read 17 (17?!!!!) pages of comments here and my reaction is..... er.....

I wish I could see a high res picture as we had with the others, to get a better idea of the costumes.

Fili looks fine to me. Kili looks very good in himself, just nothing like a dwarf, or at least, nothing like I'd imagined a dwarf to be. Don't understand why so many people think he looks like an elf, he's got far too much facial hair for that.

Oh well... I'm not giving up yet, this is just one picture and after the first surprise, I'm getting used to him and once we see him acting, and interacting with the others..... The end is going to be heartbreaking....

Wonder how long before the next dwarves appear. More dwarves.... Three (perhaps?) more dwarves.....


Owlyross
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 7:55am

Post #409 of 601 (11168 views)
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How's this for a comparison? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill and Ted or Fili and Kili?

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
Benjamin Franklin
The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.
Horace Walpole (1717 - 1797)


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 8:31am

Post #410 of 601 (11142 views)
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Hair: Gloin and Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

I've found myself comparing Gloin's hair with Kili's -- the latter having caused quite a stir; the former, barely a murmur. Yet how different are they really?

Both dwarves seem to like their hair long, and they like to wear it loose. By 2011 standards, Gloin's hair doesn't look especially 'attractive', although, if these movies were being made during a 'big hair' era (somewhere between the bouffant '60s, through the Bee Gees '70s into the new-romantic '80s), I wonder whether some might consider it to be too 'straight out of the salon', much in the way that some are saying about Kili's hair now (not helped by the breeze-teased look in the only photo we have).

I appreciate that Gloin has a lot more classic-dwarf about him due to prosthetics and general build, but, just to focus on the hair, how substantial is the difference between Gloin and Kili really? Gloin is Barry Gibb, Kili is Jennifer Aniston -- but then, if Jennifer Aniston had been a celebrity during the '60's or '70s, she'd have probably been Barry Gibb, too.

(Here's the 'dwarves so far' image posted earlier to aid comparison: http://i51.tinypic.com/2nlbt3s.jpg.)

Don't know really where I was going with this -- only to wonder out loud why Kili's hair has caused much more noise than the no-noise that Gloin's caused, other than being viewed by our 'standards of the day' eyes.


(This post was edited by RoseCotton on Jul 13 2011, 8:35am)


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 8:36am

Post #411 of 601 (11004 views)
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Re-inventing the Dwarf [In reply to] Can't Post

The only reason there is so much debate on this is simply that not only do most fans think of Gimli as the very definition of a Dwarf, but the filmmakers painted themselves into a corner when they made the 7 Dwarf Lords and the other Dwarfs at the Council of Elrond look exactly the same as Gimli.

It is unfortunate that there wasn't a little more variety then, because we would all be more open minded if Dwarves didn't already appear to have a set uniformity to them established in PJ's Middle-earth.

So it appears they are trying to break that mold, and I kind of like the notion that maybe the appearances will show a generational progression of sorts. The older, more senior members of the party will resemble Gimli, especially daddy dearest and uncle, and some of the other older dwarves will most likely also appear similar in size and look. But we've also seen a dramatic departure with Nori and Ori, while Dori looks halfway inbetween. Could this variety be age related, or job related, or clan related? Not sure, but maybe we'll get a bit of story devoted to these differences. After all, Bilbo will be on the road for a long time with these Dwarves, I can't imagine he won't ask questions about this weapon or that hair cut, or whatever.


And this thread has been amazing to watch, can't wait to see what happens after Thorin's big reveal.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Ececheira
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 8:40am

Post #412 of 601 (11083 views)
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Just wanted to say [In reply to] Can't Post

I really love these dwarves - especially AT as Kili and I love even more that they are challenging some people's views of what a dwarf should look like.

Bring on Thorin Oakenshield, I say!!!


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 8:45am

Post #413 of 601 (11132 views)
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I think it's just the 'shock of the new', really.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... on the line-up of them all together they start to become 'these are the dwarves' and not just 'oh my goodness!'.


Bound
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 9:11am

Post #414 of 601 (11012 views)
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Amen... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The only reason there is so much debate on this is simply that not only do most fans think of Gimli as the very definition of a Dwarf, but the filmmakers painted themselves into a corner when they made the 7 Dwarf Lords and the other Dwarfs at the Council of Elrond look exactly the same as Gimli.

It is unfortunate that there wasn't a little more variety then, because we would all be more open minded if Dwarves didn't already appear to have a set uniformity to them established in PJ's Middle-earth.

No matter what I feel about the picture, I think you are spot on. In terms of Middle Earth Dwarves, most people will be expecting 13 Gimli's because we've had no indication that Dwarves can look any different. Other people have mentioned it here - the sterotype of Dwarves across fantasy has pretty much been stuck in the realms of Gimli.. or something like miniture Vikings (I recall someone wrote that above)... I guess at the end of the day with 13 Dwarves on screen - it will help to have certain things make them stand out. This doesn't ruin the movies - at least not for me anyways

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


Merowen
The Shire

Jul 13 2011, 9:18am

Post #415 of 601 (10920 views)
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That's an idea [In reply to] Can't Post

perhaps the younger the dwarf, the smaller the beard. After all, both have a beard in the photo, Kili's beard just smaller.

I do like the look of Fili, it feels right to me. However I don't exactly like the look of Kili, he doesn't look very dwarvish (not because of the beard), so slim that he looks taller! I guess we only know for sure when we see them in action.

Never ask an Elf for advice, for he will say both 'Yes' and 'No'.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 9:30am

Post #416 of 601 (11025 views)
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they [In reply to] Can't Post

are fine with me as long as they dont say stupid stuff like "It's the Dwarves that go swimming with little, hairy women" Smile


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 9:36am

Post #417 of 601 (10860 views)
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ey people here! [In reply to] Can't Post

in lotr we travelled across middle earth but only visited one dwarf realm that was actually some kind of tomb (Moria), instead of being too much critic i suggest take things like this:

we are not watching some promo photos, we actually are travelling around middle earth again in another direction we haven´t seen before, is just that we have found the party of dwarves sonner than we expected, not the movies, we are actually on the road ahead to Erebor wich is the home of this race and all his different clans, imagine we had saw the hobbit first, then looking at gimli it should looked right because we had known gloin before,

orcs of moria looked different, uruks were different, but all were orcs after all, and im not toling about the age, wich clearly makes a difference, maybe i feel we should wait to see the party togheter, not that photo of the silouetes of 13 gimlis following gandalf, ah , and fili looks cool

love!!!!!!!!!


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 9:53am

Post #418 of 601 (11088 views)
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Can someone with Photoshop magic put Gandalf in the line-up??! [In reply to] Can't Post

For size reference... Here's a pic if you need one... http://www.theargonath.cc/characters/gandalf/pictures/gandalf28.jpg

Thanks!


DanielLB
Immortal

Jul 13 2011, 10:14am

Post #419 of 601 (11112 views)
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Hi-res [In reply to] Can't Post

Still no hi-res picture? I want to see the details!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 10:18am

Post #420 of 601 (10931 views)
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Everyone here seems too Hasty.... "to deal out Death and Judgement?" [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay opinions are fine , but HONESTLY...I'm prefectly fine to just sit back and wait for all of the next Reveals...Thisn't looking like a Cartoon-version of TH anymore.

For all we know? these Shots are just of our Dwaves in their Final "Battle of the 5 Armies gear!"
after they have raided the Lonely Mountain when Smaug is no more
wearing their Final WarBattle Dress?...So that said..

they could be ALL Canon-dressed, Color-cordinated HOODS like the Book, at BagEnd...They could have two sets of Clothes packed in their bags (maybe..you Think?) on their ponys? I tend to think if they came marching through Hobbiton dressed like? that Half of the Halflings of Hobbiton would be Banging on the DOOR, feeling pretty threathed, Riots in the Streets?

I don't trust that shot in Empire MAG...it is a composite...not the Final version (was it a marketing diversion tactic?) Maybe their wardobe evolves as they get more and More Filty...cause none got to take a Shower in Mirkwood?, (even though Bombur did take a Bath,... and look that, did to him?) If they showed up at Thandrial's Halls dressed like that,
I'd throw them into Deepest Dungeon TOO! ......xoxoOB


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 13 2011, 10:23am

Post #421 of 601 (10817 views)
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Agree totally .... [In reply to] Can't Post

 


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 10:42am

Post #422 of 601 (10929 views)
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Frustrating, isn't it... [In reply to] Can't Post

... one tiny detail which I think I can see, by enlarging the picture and lightening it, is that Kili seems to be wearing something blue on the front of his costume, also on the shoulder just below his ear. It made me wonder if there's more colour on the costumes than we're seeing in these dark photos:



Best detachable party hood, perhaps! Wink


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 10:43am

Post #423 of 601 (11038 views)
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Many thanks for your defence through the night [In reply to] Can't Post

My original comment was knocked out as a kind of spontaneous remark without the intention that it was going to create so much debate. I'm wholly with you on this though Phibbus- there is very little reason for excessive delineation between dwarves that will just chew up screentime. Personally if it was me adapting this film (and i know that few on this board would approve of that) i would be tempted to break the dwarves down by families with a single spokesman for their opinion in any given scene (such a spokesman may change from one scene to another, but whoever it is will speak for the group). Essentially, the only really 'dramatic' dwarves are those who are important to the plot or who have been referenced in the prior film, so obviously Thorin, Balin (given both his significance as 'second in command' and for his significance from FotR's Moria sequence), Gloin (being Gimli's father) and Fili and Kili (though to be honest in terms of unique characters, they only really count as one- they come as a pair almost without exception during the story). Ori and Bombur have the potential to stand out as individuals, but they don't need to take up great lengths of dramatic time, and it is pretty obvious what you use to identify them- Bombur is notably obese (being a major part of his role as comic relief) and Ori is a bit of a nerd by dwarvish standards, both things that can be done with minimal dialogue through their behavior. Dori, Nori, Bifur, Bofur, Dwalin and Oin do not need much in the way of personal identification- they do need a line or two just to give them a bit of identity but fundamentally they are filler or the 'vox pop' of the company- the audience does not really need to be able to tell which is which (just like they don't have to be able to tell which is which in the apostles).

While i didn't make a point of noting it during my recent skim read of The Hobbit, Tolkien certainly does not overburden us with details on characters. Beyond their initial introductions (and even then he doesn't necessarily identify each one individually, particularly when they start arriving in groups of two and three) only Thorin, Balin, Dori and Bombur actually get individual lines (Fili might get a couple- especially around the boat incident, but generally they like the other 'power pair' of Oin and Gloin are characterised 'as a team'). Therefore i do hope that PJ won't get too bogged down in making sure each and every one of them gets equal development- there is a distinct pecking order in terms of who gets the lions share and PJ would be a fool not to recognise the wisdom in that.

Dr Death


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 11:13am

Post #424 of 601 (10840 views)
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To be fair, DrDeath [In reply to] Can't Post

.. we don't know that they haven't done exactly what you say, or something like it. Most of the character delineation is in the writing and we know nothing about that at all. I can't imagine that they're going to want to slow the action down by giving each dwarf a developed character study, backstory and so on. It's a balance between having an undistinguished mass bumbling along behind Bilbo and Gandalf and having 13 individuals we can at least tell apart.

In the early days there was speculation here about how many dwarves would be cast. Surely not the full 13? Would some be female? and so on. Well, they surprised all the doubters by sticking to the book and casting 13 male dwarves. Then they had to decide what they would look like. They could have gone 'off the peg' and had them all roughly the same, with different coloured hoods but they've gone for 13 individuals. That still doesn't tell us how far each individual dwarf will be distinguished in the writing but I'm sure some will play a bigger part than others and we will get to know the ones we need to know, as and when we need to know them.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 11:26am

Post #425 of 601 (11012 views)
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Isn't it too soon for releasing these images ??? [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean there is a good 1 and a half year left until the release of the first film !!! Shocked


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 11:37am

Post #426 of 601 (11991 views)
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It's not that they're attractive that's the problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Both Liv Tyler and Miranda Otto are attractive women but they're hardly the kind of women who push everybody's buttons. I think Liv Tyler is a terrific actress and her performance in LotR really did make me sit up and take notice of her, but her face is a bit long and horsey for my tastes, and as for Miranda Otto, while she looks lovely as herself, she was a bit hard-featured and po-faced as Eowyn to illicit any kind of hubba hubba response. Being as it is set in the days of modern make-up (and the film following by and large) Lord of the Rings really isn't the place men go to get their rocks off. On the other hand, there's a lot to recommend it to women- in Middle-earth there are men for all tastes- tall and slender, short and stocky or anything in between, rugged men's men or smooth ladies' men. Pretty boys and bits of rough, lean and mean or comforting and cuddly. Knights in armour or rebels with causes. Emotional wounds make the ladies swoon. All wrapped up in the romantic setting of beautiful scenery and spiritual fulfillment.

In Lord of the Rings such diversity of thinking woman's totty was fine- i found it greatly amusing how each year more and more heart-throb material would emerge from cultures new because it fell more or less in line with what Tolkien wrote- of course Aragorn was going to be dark moody and handsome, of course Boromir would be like a modern day military officer, reflecting on the horrors of war and struggling to cope with less simple more political matters. Of course Legolas would be tall, blonde and pretty. There wasn't an issue and i was perfectly happy with that.

With The Hobbit however there is not that same range of totty and i didn't initially see any reason why people would try to shoe-horn some in. There were a couple of roles which would be acceptable for some eye-candy- Bard and Thranduil, and Bilbo would probably not be wholly uneasy on the eye (i even endorsed Colin Firth's assignment to the role, knowing he could play the part fantastically and still bring in the ladies from his pride and prejudice days), but the dwarves were ultimately not going to be a place where those with modern generic preferences would get their kicks (that said if the homosexual bear community latched onto it, fair play- that's their prerogative- there's something for everyone). However, now we've seen the finished job on Kili this does feel like a betrayal. I can see no earthly reason other than cynically appeasing the lowest common denominator to abandon every shred of the dwarven aesthetic. I would happily go chasing through the books again for the evidence to confirm Tolkien's depictions of dwarves as being more than just small humans in appearance but it would not do any good. One of the first things i learnt about philosophy and arguing is that a person who refuses to acknowledge grounds on which they can be proved wrong can never be proved right, and the reaction of some females to this picture confirm my suspicions i had from the moment when all these willowy young men were announced. How about you go chasing through the books to confirm your hypothesis instead? If you can find me one example of a dwarf being described (without qualification- i.e. not to other dwarves but to human or elven females) as handsome maybe i'll soften....

Dr Death


(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 13 2011, 7:20pm)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 11:39am

Post #427 of 601 (12037 views)
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You can see his uncle in him [In reply to] Can't Post

Because Richard Armitage is a modern, rakish, tall, dark, stubbly type too.

Dr Death


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 11:44am

Post #428 of 601 (11891 views)
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Hopefully they have the wisdom not to take it personally [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a great deal of time for Aidan Turner- he seemed like a perfectly amiable and not in the least bit vain bloke in the press-conference. It's not ultimately his fault that 'the powers that be' decided to capitalise on his inadvertent good looks and rob him of all dwarvishness. Perhaps he might have objected, but ultimately it's a case of 'PJ's the boss' so you can't blame him for not protesting too loudly when they shaved down his mighty beard and decided Kili should have Sandra Bullock's hair. That doesn't soften my stance on the decisions made about the appearance of his character.

Dr Death


RaoulJ
Rivendell


Jul 13 2011, 11:50am

Post #429 of 601 (11934 views)
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Couldn't say it better. I agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for your insights, Sometimes I skip texts but I always read yours. Thanks!


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 12:00pm

Post #430 of 601 (11817 views)
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Perhaps not the worst case in terms of everything that could happen [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean technically there are countless things that could have happened- they could have been played as actual children, or female, or removed altogether or been ice-skating mongeese, but in terms of the 'worst of all possible worlds' given that they were included and the roles were cast with men who were out of puberty, this comes pretty high on the list of what could go wrong. In fact i'm not sure i wouldn't have preferred a pubescent Fili and Kili- if they were kids with weird kind of patchy beards and puppy fat, at least that would have been a take on the youth of them, instead we have got the most generic hunk in a parka you could imagine. It's pretty catastrophic (within it's context) if you ask me.

Dr Death


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 12:02pm

Post #431 of 601 (11920 views)
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I always enjoy reading your posts bud... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I can see why some of the ladies get their feathers ruffled, especially with some of the gender generalizations that you throw out, like the ones in your last paragraph. I guess I mean to say that if you want your opinions to be taken more seriously, then you have to be careful what your saying, and know your audience. I know I have to watch myself sometimes too, I forget where I'm at once in a while. It happens to us all.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Jul 13 2011, 12:04pm)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 12:12pm

Post #432 of 601 (11968 views)
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No point beating around the bush when you can see straight through it [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope people who read my posts appreciate that i am desperately trying (both for the sake of my argument and with the utmost sincerity) to offend as few people as possible, but there are times when you have to press your accusations through the denial. If someone is in court and you lay the accusation of murder in front of them, if they think they can get away with it of course they will deny it. Not to liken fangirls (i.e. in this case those who defend the 'dwarfiness' of Kili's look) to murderers, but in terms of murdering a fictional character they're a bit like a bent juryAngelic

Dr Death


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 13 2011, 12:18pm

Post #433 of 601 (11889 views)
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Have to [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I mean there is a good 1 and a half year left until the release of the first film !!! Shocked



They probably want to make sure they release them officially and on their own terms before they leak out on their own. Plus, if they were trying to keep the dwarves' appearances secret, it would be extremely difficult to release any photos or videos from the set. Now the door is open!


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 13 2011, 12:37pm

Post #434 of 601 (11860 views)
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They probably wanted to release something around Comic-Con... [In reply to] Can't Post

They might show some more at the convention, i don't think anything major, though. That will have to wait till next year.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 12:40pm

Post #435 of 601 (11817 views)
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Wait... so Estrogen Island and Testosterone Tower are real forum events? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought they were simply terms used to describe the reaction of certain members to the cast. Well, the more you know... Angelic


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 12:44pm

Post #436 of 601 (11847 views)
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O'Gorman is the one with Golden hair? [In reply to] Can't Post

Works for me.


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 12:55pm

Post #437 of 601 (11847 views)
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Not sure how far 'trying to offend' comes into it.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... isn't it more a case of 'Sorry if anyone is offended, but....' ? [Meaning, I'm going to do it anyway...] Wink

Thing is, DrDeath, you've made it pretty clear how you feel on these matters and it always seems to come down to... 'women are brainless' > 'anyone who disagrees with me is brainless' >'ergo: anyone who disagrees with me is probably a woman so need not be taken seriously' . 'Fangirl' used as a term of abuse towards anyone who doesn't share your opinion - in this case on Kili - is just plain rude. Do you know that all the posters who've said they like Kili's appearance are female? Or that all those who don't are male? Or that the only possible reason they can have for reacting positively is that they fancy him? You don't - you can't, so why do it?

This is probably pointless but I'll say it anyway - there are posters out there less obdurate than you. It doesn't have to come down to whether you fancy the actor or not. There are other good, rational criteria for judging the character designs. For me, in that photograph, Kili doesn't look like a dwarf. At least, not like any dwarf I've ever imagined - I can't presume to speak for the rest of creation. I doubt very much if he's anything like the Kili Tolkien imagined either.

But, he is Kili in film of 'The Hobbit', or he will be when the time comes. Whatever any of us think of it, however differently we might have chosen to do it, he is the Kili we'll see on screen. We can either gnash our teeth about that or we can look for reasons to accept the idea and get used to it. I choose the second option. Not because I fancy him [you may find this hard to believe but we don't automatically fall for anything in trousers. Or in this case, very large boots.] Just because I've waited for these films a long time and I want to go on enjoying the wait. And I know that this is only one photograph - so much is going to depend on the writing and the acting, about which we know nothing.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 12:56pm

Post #438 of 601 (11824 views)
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Dr D, it always comes back to Richard Armitage [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Because Richard Armitage is a modern, rakish, tall, dark, stubbly type too.

Dr Death


Is he? Well, perhaps in the extracts you've been watching. But, as I've already mentioned, he's a character actor and doesn't always look that way. I notice you passed no comment on his appearance in the latest PJ video where he has very short brown hair, a greying beard, a big nose and pointy ears. (Not many prosthetics needed there, then! And not exactly a pretty boy.) The following with thanks to RANet (and apologies if it doesn't work, but you know the shot I mean.)

http://www.richardarmitagenet.com/images/gallery/Hobbit/2ndVideoBlog/album/Video2-RA03.jpg

And although I'm a follower of Being Human, I'm not too sure about AT as Kili either for all the reasons that others have given. But I expect he'll grow on me because I always give people a chance.


(This post was edited by ShireHorse on Jul 13 2011, 12:57pm)


Sunflower
Valinor

Jul 13 2011, 1:18pm

Post #439 of 601 (11815 views)
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Didn't think of that. [In reply to] Can't Post

It makes sense. Teenage rebellion! Knowing it would tick his parents' generation off mightily, he adopts an Elvish look. (Be interesting to note if Elrond will have any visible reaction written into the script.)
Now I wish that Kili would survive. He'd def. not be one of the wifeless Dwarves....


Well, it seems we are in for a cinematic first: a hottie Dwarf. Wonder what The Professor's reaction was to this pic! He's probably sitting up there in Heaven smoking a pipe, with a bemused twinkle in his eyeSmile


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:30pm

Post #440 of 601 (11719 views)
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I agree with you doormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm slowly starting to come around to them while seeing them in the lineup of the other dwarves. The shock factor was kind of a big deal for me but I think when I look at the pic they slowly look more and more like part of the group

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:30pm

Post #441 of 601 (11686 views)
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I agree with you doormouse [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm slowly starting to come around to them while seeing them in the lineup of the other dwarves. The shock factor was kind of a big deal for me but I think when I look at the pic they slowly look more and more like part of the group

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 1:31pm

Post #442 of 601 (11900 views)
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Bill and Ted embark on their most bodacious adventure yet [In reply to] Can't Post

http://img29.imageshack.us/...9/3887/dwarvesbt.jpg


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:48pm

Post #443 of 601 (11707 views)
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Sounds like... [In reply to] Can't Post

...bad fanfiction. We are talking about a film based on a book by JRR Tolkien, right?

I don't love PJ's style, but I don't think he'll take the concept that far. Turner will certainly be a little rebellious, vain and immature, but to play him as the equivalent of a modern teen would be disastrous.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 1:52pm

Post #444 of 601 (11664 views)
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Right... [In reply to] Can't Post

And does a beard automatically make one unattractive?

I haven't heard many women complain about a bearded Clooney or Sean Connery, for example...Why should they not accept a bearded Turner?


Laerasyn
Bree


Jul 13 2011, 1:53pm

Post #445 of 601 (11740 views)
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Dwarven ideas of beauty [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
To me, this shows the real progression of the dwarf lifespan if you will. I could totally see young dwarves starting out fairly "normal" looking, just small(and to be honest the only thing we really know about Tolkien's dwarves is they have beards and they are short and kind of stocky, other than that there is no reason to think they aren't as individual as humans are and some humans are sort of squat and ugly and some are tall and beautiful and some are small and beautiful and some are tall and ugly, etc, etc, etc).

Aule was after originally making them to be similar to Iluvatar's creations, IIRC - Elves and Men(actually didn't dwarves come before Men? I can't remember but I supposed the Valar knew men were coming some day by that point), he didn't set out to make squat little rough guys, they just didn't turn out quite how he planned them too, because he didn't have Iluvatar's abilities. So I'd imagine they might look alright to start and then sort of start looking more stereotypically "dwarvish" as they age.

To be honest I tend to think that the Gimli-like dwarves are probably considered the hotties of the dwarf world and while we may think "Oh look at Kili and Fili, how adorable" they are probably thought of as being not great looking by OTHER dwarves(at least not yet, they are, at this point in their lives, basically little more than teenagers) . Sort of like Marilyn from The Munsters. LOL (If anyone hasn't seen it, it's a comedy from the 60's based on the idea of Frankenstein's monster, Dracula, dracula's daughter being a family with the monster and the daughter's son being a wolf boy - they have a young niece who lives with them named Marilyn who is very pretty blonde girl, to human eyes, but they are always feeling bad for her because, to their eyes, she's very plain. :) )

Basically I could even see it being played for a bit of a joke, about how the "goodlooking" dwarves are actually "ugly".

Though I guess maybe this explains all that ribbing Aidan Turner took about "sex appeal" in that charity video. :)



I actually really like that idea about the "pretty" dwarves being considered ugly by dwarf standards. I can see it being played for quite a few laughs; it fits with PJ's humour style. Marilyn Munster indeed! Cool

I also anticipate many jokes about their lack of proper beards.

'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house.'



DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 2:12pm

Post #446 of 601 (11645 views)
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Let me clear something up [In reply to] Can't Post

I have not got anything against women, not in the slightest, not in the least, not in any fashion what so ever.


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it always seems to come down to... 'women are brainless' > 'anyone who disagrees with me is brainless' >'ergo: anyone who disagrees with me is probably a woman so need not be taken seriously'


Such a misinterpretation of my attitudes are tantamount to slander and i find such an interpretation as deeply offensive, possibly even a willful misinterpretation in the point i am trying to make. Yes, it is a point about the female reaction to these pictures, but that does not mean i am tarring the whole female race with the accusation- there are plenty of women who have posted here that hold opinions that i agree with. However, the vast majority of those who have responded positively to this (as opposed to negatively or with concern) have been female (according to their profiles) and have without any irony it seems defended the decision purely on the grounds of how it appeals to their particular predilections. I apologise if allowing that kind of public sexual appreciation is considered essential to feminism, but if it's any consolation i find it just as repugnant in the 'lads mag' culture. Women have been fighting for years to be taken as more than just sexual objects and yet now it seems based on the reaction of this forum that they are doing exactly the same to men, basing their opinions purely on how he looks with the rather cop-out justification of 'well if his performance matches what does it matter?' it's the distaff equivalent of a man saying he reads playboy for the articles, and frankly neither washes with me.

Just to prove that i'm not barking up a non-existant tree, let me furnish you with a few quotes from this thread:


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They look so lovable (Fili) and downright gorgeous (Kili) --- quite undwarvish in my opinion but cute as anything (hah, now I'm outing myself as a female not impervious to male charm, right )


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look like they could be in Mens Vogue of Middle-Earth! Look at Kili's hair! A bit high on the shampoos and conditioners are we? All in all a very good


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I never thought hobbits or dwarves are the type of race you would drool over...was I wrong. Top marks to PJ and co for making something I thought wasnt possible....sexy dwarves.


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(And I freely admit, my X chromosomes are enjoying themselves very much right now. ROWR! )


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Kili is more 'outside the box' than some of the others, it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I'm glad.EvilLaugh


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I was expecting two hunky dwarves, and would actually have been disappointed to see something else


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I wouldn't mind giving Kili a feel-i Can't wait for Thorin Hunkenshield.


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I actually quite like these two, and would like to thank PJ for not carrying out the crime of putting Aidan Turner in heavy prosthetics. Cool


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if they are also easy on the eyes from a human female point of view, I can live with that.Cool


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Sorry, I'm going to pull out the girl card too and say 'Hubba Hubba' here.


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Meanwhile those of us who don't care as much can say "gee, that's one hot dwarf!"(depending on one's personal favorite:))


Those are just the most oblique, there were many more inferences and nudge, nudge, wink winks that are not so easy to pack into a quote. It is plain however that the majority of authors of posts loudly in favour have been female, some of them openly confessing their bias based on their preference (as i have shown above) with varying degrees of sincerity. Now, there have been men in favour of the choice (the majority of whom i assume are heterosexual), and a fair number of people both male and female who are as yet undecided or ambivalent, and equally there are a great number of women who have expressed their opposition, but is it wholly unfair to state that the majority of those who reacted positively to the picture were female and this was due at least in part to the minimal work done in terms of padding out his build and his face? As i've quoted above, at least one person considers it a 'crime' to put Aidan Turner in heavy prosthetics.

The sole arguments in defence of Kili's look other than the thrill of the fact Aidan Turner hasn't been turned into what we know as a dwarf is the fact it offers 'variety' (which i would argue can be achieved in other ways, and in any case the break-down of humanoid types into the short and stocky dwarves, average humans and lithe and beautiful elves limits that variety from the start) and the ease of identification (despite the fact people never had any issue recognising one stubble-clad, shoulder-length haired grubby human in armour from another). My powers of deduction therefore lead me to the conclusion that the primary motivating factor behind this decision was to make Kili palatable to a large part of the female (and a part of the male) audience who would otherwise be put off watching a film about thirteen pint-sized hairy men. Is it sexist of me to come to that conclusion based on the evidence available, or can we drop the slanderous idea that i consider women an inferior breed? Angelic

Dr Death


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 2:28pm

Post #447 of 601 (11659 views)
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Would you want me to? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, he does look a little worse for wear there, but he's still not exactly an aging mastiff of a man- the hair isn't greying as far as i can see (it's cut short to facilitate a wig but it's hardly thinning or even notably receding) and there are a couple of crow's feet around the eyes, but then he's plainly knackered having just shot for a number of months with very early calls with prosthetics and adhesive ravaging your complexion each day. He's still a 39 year old man with strong linear features and not a jowl or sign of gravity in sight. Besides, under all those prosthetics it doesn't matter how *he* looksSly.

And for the record, i brought up Richard Armitage because the person was talking about kili's uncle- ie, Thorin, and yeah, you could say there's a resemblance. Let's wait and see how Thorin looks in his glamour shot before we start calling a tired Richard as evidence that Thorin will look as battered as his book counterpart (complete with failing eyesight).

Dr Death


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 2:30pm

Post #448 of 601 (11488 views)
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*chokes on tea* [In reply to] Can't Post


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I always figured the members of TORN to be more the type to value visual authenticity over sex appeal.


You haven't seen the Estrogen Island and Testosterone Tower threads on "Off-Topic," then . . . we swim in both the deep and shallow ends of the pool!

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 2:36pm

Post #449 of 601 (11554 views)
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LOL! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Some dwarves are just really, really good-looking" . . .

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 2:47pm

Post #450 of 601 (11591 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

the terms "murdering a fictional character" do sound like something a lawyer would say to rile up the jury. When the LOTR movies came out, the equivalent phrase was "raping the book." I argued then and I argue now that the book remains intact, as do the characters. You can still pick it up and read it and it's all there like it was before. All Peter Jackson has done in both cases is present us with an interpretation of both. Just as all the hundreds of "Tolkien artists" have done with their drawings. You may not like his interpretation, and that is fine. The only interpretation any of us is ever going to love completely is our own, and alas, making a movie (or in my case, even just drawing what I see) is out of the question. So we either have to watch PJ's movie and be a bit frustrated when he veers away from what we think he "should" have done, or choose not to see it at all.

I hope you don't mean that someone else's ideas have the power to destroy your own.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on Jul 13 2011, 2:48pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 3:03pm

Post #451 of 601 (10612 views)
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Well where to start. How about "Once upon a time". [In reply to] Can't Post

After Pete's statement about sexy Dwarves and seeing the tease of Thorin's image I thought that a short dark and handsome dwarf was a good. possibility. I am not really surprised. I knew that there was going to be one heck of a blow out here on the boards if it came along. Most everyone expected variations on the theme of Gimli and really never tried to think of Dwarves as a real culture with a population with genetic variability and therefore a range of appearances. Kili might just be the ugly Dwarf from the Dwarve's perspective. (Lets hope he grows out of it, maybe a few battle scars will help...)
I see the strategy of pushing the boundaries of expectations generally a good approach to art. It creates something fresh and new and drags us out of the doldrums of our existence. I see this approach in Chris Nolan's "Dark Knight" and J.J. Abrams "Star TreK", both of which I am extremely fond. I think PJ is going for a reboot of Middle-earth. I think Guillermo del Toro inspired him, pulled him out of the idea that these two films will just be remakes of The Lord of the Rings. I was near convinced of this when Peter went with 3-D. The choice of a cutting edge format was a big signal that The Hobbit was not going to be a comfortable match-up with with its sequels (that happened to get filmed first). Hell I wouldn't be surprised if the framing devise was shot in 2-D and it go to 3-D once the story hits Munchkin...er. Hobbiton. But that is an aside.

You asked what I thought of the two new Dwarves. Well I must say I was suprised and Kili's look does not align with my preconceived notions coming from both the book and Peter's Lord of the Rings. It is not Tolkien but is Tolkien re-imagined. I will not be a naysayer at this point. It is far too early to tell how this will all end up. I will say one thing. The production has not been boring so far.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Alientraveller
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 3:08pm

Post #452 of 601 (10694 views)
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Well I'm surprised as anyone by Kili [In reply to] Can't Post

TVNZ's picked up on the controversy. http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/hot-hobbit-pics-spark-debate-4301729 But I do believe Kili won't look as airbrushed as he does in this photograph given PJ's grimy style, and will look more proportionate on screen. I agree with everyone Kili's looks could be a source of humour, with Fili jibing about ugly he is and how he needs to grow a beard.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:18pm

Post #453 of 601 (10537 views)
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Wyld Ponies rule! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

Even with all of this fun teasing, my hope that the performances are so good that the costuming is only a small part of what makes the actors convincing as dwarves. And even with that, the costuming is pretty good. It's mostly just Kili's hair that bugs me.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 3:22pm

Post #454 of 601 (10547 views)
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I have one suggestion...Chill. [In reply to] Can't Post

The best defense is not always a great offense. Besides being on the offensive is bound to offend someone.Cool

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 3:25pm

Post #455 of 601 (10511 views)
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Now let's take some of your quotes out of context and see how well they fare... [In reply to] Can't Post


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One of the first things i learnt about philosophy and arguing is that a person who refuses to acknowledge grounds on which they can be proved wrong can never be proved right


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Not to liken fangirls (i.e. in this case those who defend the 'dwarfiness' of Kili's look) to murderers, but in terms of murdering a fictional character they're a bit like a bent jury


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Women are much more convincing liars than men and have a remarkable capacity to raise their hormones to the level of poetry but here it is wholly transparent.


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i think anyone who tries to defend Kili's look is either a Estrogen Islander or a contrarian.


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Emotional wounds make the ladies swoon.


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I can see no earthly reason other than cynically appeasing the lowest common denominator to abandon every shred of the dwarven aesthetic and the response of some women on this (yourself included) and their attempts to defend this just ring so phoney it's infuriating.


My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


sphdle1
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 3:26pm

Post #456 of 601 (10521 views)
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Looks like facial hair to me [In reply to] Can't Post

Not a lot of it, but a short beard or really good scruff.

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:26pm

Post #457 of 601 (10535 views)
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I don't see sexism [In reply to] Can't Post

I see the Cartesian bias that abstract rationality and pure ideas are to be preferred over anything that actually engages with life. Which, many have argued, does in fact stem from a problem with the feminine - or rather, those aspects of human character that Cartesian dualism insist are feminine, even though men and women have them equally (you're not saying men do not respond viscerally to attractive women now are you?).

It's not actually an either/or situation. It is possible to be intelligent AND have emotions and enjoy the physical side of life.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:28pm

Post #458 of 601 (10642 views)
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I think you did a pretty good job trying not to generalize too much to offend. [In reply to] Can't Post


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Women are much more convincing liars than men and have a remarkable capacity to raise their hormones to the level of poetry but here it is wholly transparent.


This one statement, however, you may want to adjust, as generalizing women to be liars is pretty harsh. A good rule of thumb is to say "many women" or "some women." (I'm just saying this as a friendly suggestion, by the way, because I could see you were trying to tone it down, and I very much appreciate that.)

Please keep in mind that some of us women aren't as interested in the dwarves being handsome as we are interested in them being convincing dwarves. I'd like to see Turner be more dwarfish myself, and at this point, I'm hoping that his performance will be what makes him a dwarf, because clearly, at the very least, his hair isn't doing it for me.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:28pm

Post #459 of 601 (10549 views)
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Dunno [In reply to] Can't Post

the terms "murdering a fictional character" do sound like something a lawyer would say to rile up the jury. When the LOTR movies came out, the equivalent phrase was "raping the book."

Such burning and passionate (yet trite and cliched) phrases are vitally necessary to establish that one is A Real Fan. We'll be seeing a lot more rape and murder as we get more Real Fans on the forum in the coming months. It's not going to be pretty.


I argued then and I argue now that the book remains intact, as do the characters.

Narf!


I hope you don't mean that someone else's ideas have the power to destroy your own.

DD does have a point. Like Ben Kenobi said, the minds of certain types of people are easily influenced. That's what Hitler did. And we don't want to be like Hitler, do we?

(And with that Reductio Ad Hitlerum, Godwin's Law is invoked!)

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Annael
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:33pm

Post #460 of 601 (10507 views)
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Darkstone [In reply to] Can't Post

I Heart you passionately.

Solely for your mind, of course, you degenerate old NARF!

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


esheming
Bree

Jul 13 2011, 3:34pm

Post #461 of 601 (10589 views)
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They all look just fine to me... [In reply to] Can't Post

...considering that film is a visual medium and that the characters must be visually different from one another to a certain extent. I remember thinking that the Hobbits of LOTR didn't look very hobbitty at the time (Frodo, Merry and Pippin are too slender, Martin Freeman's Bilbo is technically too slender as well, their clothes aren't as described in the novels etc etc) ~ but that didn't bother me a bit once the film started. To be honest, the first time I saw 'Fellowship', my heart sank when Viggo uttered his first sentences as Aragorn. By the end of the film, I couldn't have imagined anyone else ever playing Aragorn!


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:34pm

Post #462 of 601 (10453 views)
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Kili is hawt!!!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I love pair. They're great. Especially Turner. Who is hawt!!

And I'm a guy!

(I love being the outlier in someone else's data!!)

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:35pm

Post #463 of 601 (10362 views)
Shortcut
Your understanding is correct. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 13 2011, 3:38pm

Post #464 of 601 (10546 views)
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I see what's going on [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a difference in how women admire men and how men admire women. A lot of what these women said was jokingly, and to be silly. It's fun to be silly, and it doesn't mean we all prefer a guy to be good looking over convincing in his role.

If you ever notice the difference between a strip club with female strippers and one with male strippers, you can see some of this. Often, the strip clubs with female strippers are filled with men who stare more and seem to take it all more seriously. Strip clubs with male strippers are more often filled with giggling women, who are just out having fun and not taking it seriously at all.

Testosterone plays a huge role in thinking about sex. We all have it, men and women. But men have it more, and it can make sex and the imperative to have it a much stronger, more serious instinct. In women, it's not so strong, and we think about sex much less often per day. So when we talk about attractiveness in men, there's less of that imperative. And I think this is where many men get annoyed, frustrated, confused. What we mean as being fun, admiring, but silly at the same time, men can often misinterpret as us being more serious.

I'm sure some of these women are being serious, but most of these quotes you pulled out sound like playful joking to me.

And mods, if there's anything I need to adjust here to fit better to board standards, please let me know, I'm happy to adjust.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 3:41pm

Post #465 of 601 (10518 views)
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Twelve-and-Half Dwarves? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
BILBO: All I said to Thorin was that maybe Dwarves and Elves should get along better - and he threw his axe at me!

BALIN: That might have been a mistake.

BILBO: Why? What's he got against Elves, anyway?

BALIN: You didn't hear this from me, but a few years back there was a, let's say, silly, rumour going around concerning his sister and a certain Elf. It was completely unfounded, of course.

BILBO: Of course. (Looks thoughtfully in Kili's direction)

BALIN: Bilbo?

BILBO: Yes?

BALIN: Don't stare.


(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Jul 13 2011, 3:42pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:43pm

Post #466 of 601 (10457 views)
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Yep. [In reply to] Can't Post

About what I was thinking. This is going to be the Legolas Dwarf!

Can't wait to see him shield-surfing down the stairs of Erebor, or climbing up the side of a huge warg, killing the Goblin riders, then sliding down its snout.

This is going to be so cool!!

(BTW, how'd somebody so reasonable and level-headed as you get into this discussion?)

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:47pm

Post #467 of 601 (10550 views)
Shortcut
Yeah. [In reply to] Can't Post

Still, previously my images of Dwarves consisted of the archetypes from Disney, D&D, and WOW. Nice to have my mind expanded away from decades long cliches.

I was so worried about 13 identical little Dwarves running around with only colored hoods to distinguish them. This is looking better and better!

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 3:52pm

Post #468 of 601 (10446 views)
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Women being better liars does not mean they lie more frequently [In reply to] Can't Post

I would consider the ability to lie well quite a useful one. I actually wish I was a better liar, as I can't lie to save my life (I have some kind of psychological block about misleading others and it sometimes gets me into trouble). Commenting on the disparity of general lying capabilities between the genders doesn't strike me as particularly offensive – and from my experience, it's got some truth to it...


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 3:56pm

Post #469 of 601 (10506 views)
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Rats! [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually was kinda hoping it was a physical thing.

But I'm still grateful for the "we're just friends" acknowledgement.

Thanks!

And congrats again!!

And BTW, as I get more geriatric I'm becoming less degenerate, but I hope to remain as narfy as ever!

(That's "narfy", as opposed to "smurfy.")

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


lindorian
The Shire

Jul 13 2011, 3:58pm

Post #470 of 601 (10501 views)
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I think you're right [In reply to] Can't Post

Most grown women have a laugh over fancying guys on screen. It's not something to take seriously. And the assumption that his look will will have us all drooling in the aisles is just plain wrong. (He's too pretty for a start!) I didn't fancy any of the hunks in LOTR. I watched it for the story.

As for Kili's look, yes he doesn't look like an archetypal dwarf. I would happily slap a big beard on him but I think there's been a huge overreaction about the hair. By the time he's been on the journey, it's going to look more like Aragon's straggly mess than anything else. These are glossy studio portraits - teasers to get us talking in the run up to Comic Con. I love that the dwarves have different looks and can't wait to see the rest of them.

BTW, I hope James Nesbitt isn't the bald one... after he spent all that money on a hair transplant!Wink


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 4:06pm

Post #471 of 601 (10504 views)
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So more than just one of the Company would possibly be part Elf. [In reply to] Can't Post

Present version of The Hobbit:

"As I was saying, the mother of this hobbit – of Bilbo Baggins, that is – was the fabulous Belladonna Took, one of the three remarkable daughters of the Old Took, head of the hobbits who lived across The Water, the small river that ran at the foot of The Hill. It was often said (in other families) that long ago one of the Took ancestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd, but certainly there was still something not entirely hobbit-like about them, and once in a while members of the Took-clan would go and have adventures."


Tolkien's abandoned revision of The Hobbit from 1960 (published in volume 2 of The History of The Hobbit):

"As I was saying, the mother of this hobbit – of Bilbo Baggins, that is – was the fabulous Belladonna Took, one of the three remarkable daughters of the Old Took, head of the hobbits who lived across The Water, the small river that ran at the foot of The Hill. It was often said (in other families) that the Tooks must have some elvish blood in them: which was of course absurd, but there was undoubtedly some thing queer about them, something not quite hobbitlike, according to the manners of the Shire: an outlandish strain maybe from long ago. Every now and again Tooks would go off on adventures."

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 4:09pm

Post #472 of 601 (10346 views)
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Absolutely agree with all you've said, sauget.diblosio, [In reply to] Can't Post

and belated welcome to TORn, by the way.

Permanent address: Into the West





Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 13 2011, 4:12pm

Post #473 of 601 (10491 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

Has anyone considered that the studio pressure to mitigate mostly-male-Middle-earth may have been more successful than we at first realized? Gimli tells us that dwarf women often can't be distinguished from the men... Look at Kili's soft, downy fringe, that slender, willowy build...

I can see it now, just as Kili is about to fall defending lord and uncle... off comes the helmet to reveal that that absolutely glorious nimbus of flowing hair...

"It is no man-dwarf that stands before you, but Kelli, Daughter of Dis!"
(Perhaps it is the guys who should be ogling this cheesecake?)

In seriousness though, the look does not bother me overmuch. What the look might imply as to what is done with the character has me a bit nervous.


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 13 2011, 4:32pm

Post #474 of 601 (10438 views)
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LOL, this is great! Let the rumors fly! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 4:37pm

Post #475 of 601 (10401 views)
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Could be... [In reply to] Can't Post

because if the description says she falls for an Elf Lord perhaps someone saw Kili and thought he was the elf.Wink

Permanent address: Into the West





QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 4:49pm

Post #476 of 601 (10147 views)
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Nice to see Dis get a mention... [In reply to] Can't Post

But considering their rarity, I don't think the dwarves would be willing to send one of what few women they have on a near suicidal mission to slay a dragon...


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 4:50pm

Post #477 of 601 (10116 views)
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We haven't done them in a while. [In reply to] Can't Post

But yeah, every once in a while, someone would get inspired to start a thread, and everyone else would chip in with their crush(es)-of-the-moment.

It was fun!



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 4:57pm

Post #478 of 601 (10090 views)
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I remember my first look at Bag End and the hobbits... [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved it all because it was so familiar--it was like PJ et al had climbed into my head (especially with the Nazgul) and put it all on-screen. If they could only be 100% (or nearly 100%) about one of them, I'm glad it was LotR, my favorite.

After looking at Kili, I may have to just enjoy The Hobbit as a Middle-earth movie of someone else's vision. Rivendell and Bag End we've already seen shots of, and they look basically the same. Most of the Dwarves so far look basically like the dwarves I've always thought of. But with much more of the "Kili factor" and I probably won't be loving The Hobbit because it is a visual of my view, it'll definitely be someone else's view. But I'm gonna love it anyway.


Permanent address: Into the West





Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 4:58pm

Post #479 of 601 (10093 views)
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There's one on Off Topic now. [In reply to] Can't Post

Apparently I couldn't resist. Stupid femine hormones Cool

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 4:59pm

Post #480 of 601 (10197 views)
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On the other hand... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the look of the Dwarves leads me into anticipating that Jackson and Co. will dump the cookie-cutter Elvish look and introduce some more serious non-hawt-ish variations among Elven-kind.

Picture the uproar over the release of a photo of a short dark-haired rather overweight Elf. (Like, say, the Elven-King's Butler?)

Oh, this is going to be so much fun!

But alas, the fun is destined to fade when, in the end, the concensus will be "They're perfect!"

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 5:03pm

Post #481 of 601 (10119 views)
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Mine was certainly tongue in cheek! [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, yeah, Kili is very easy on the eyes, (HeartTongueCoolBlush) but the real reason I'm not getting bent out of shape over this photo (or Nori's, for that matter, which I find even more absurd and ridiculous and yuck) is because their appearances really don't matter, in the end. if the character roles are written well, they could dress in clown outfits and it would work. But if the roles are written badly, all the prosthetics and beards and stumpy legs in New Zealand aren't going to save it.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 5:05pm

Post #482 of 601 (10142 views)
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Darn you, Arwen's Daughter!!1! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh
Um...I'm sorta between hottie crushes at the moment, though. I'll have to think about this...

Heart



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 5:05pm

Post #483 of 601 (10121 views)
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Costumes could have helped them to stand out and they could have still all looked like traditional dwarves. [In reply to] Can't Post

Instead, they've costumed them all mostly in monotone gray, at least for the stills. Individuality could have been achieved in a different way and still conformed to the traditionalist, familiar vision, is all I'm saying.

Permanent address: Into the West





Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 5:07pm

Post #484 of 601 (10068 views)
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The LotR movies are miles away from my mental view of Middle-Earth [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially Elves are completly different, Dwarves are a bit off, and the landscapes and plants are totaly un-European. Where are the birches, beeches and oaks? What are all these tussock grasses and nothofaguses? Why Gondor and Rohan are so barren? How come the Misty Mountains are nothing like the Alps of Switzerland, like Tolkien dreamt them?

And yes, I love them. For their own merits. So I'm going to love TH too.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 5:13pm

Post #485 of 601 (10173 views)
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Looks like Peter chose the road less traveled by. [In reply to] Can't Post

I still think that Kili will be played as the ugly Dwarf.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 5:19pm

Post #486 of 601 (10161 views)
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I still don't think the LotR cast is 'perfect'. [In reply to] Can't Post

Elijah Wood was too cherubic to portray the weary fifty-year-old Frodo of the book, Hugo Weaving looked considerably less than Half-Elven, Orlando Bloom was more 'Wood' than 'Elf', and in terms of acting ability, Daniel Day-Lewis and Uma Thurman would have blown Viggo Mortensen and Miranda Otto out of the water. I've long since come to terms with the shortcomings I perceive – and as such I don't wish to get caught up in a tiresome debate with any fans of the aforementioned actors – but I don't expect I'll ever come to regard the Hobbit cast as 'perfect' either. Not by a long shot.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 5:23pm

Post #487 of 601 (10085 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah see that's the thing, I am not at all worried about any of the actors I know(and I know Richard Armitage, Aidan Turner, James Nesbitt and now Dean O'Gorman best) and I have little doubt the other actors would be up to similar snuff.

If I had doubts about the actors' talents or the writing(which while I don't think LOTR was perfect, I thought over all it really worked) then the looks of the characters might be more important but to me, now, with those worries out of the way, I'm content to just imagine what these "un-stereotypical" dwarven looks mean, what they represent for the dwarves as a culture on screen and to just have fun with it and if there is eye-candy to be had, well, I'm not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. :)

I mean I find it kind of fun to play with the idea of Kili maybe getting ribbed for his looks("Now, don't be mean, It's not his fault he's ugly") or maybe he's a rebellious little Dwarf "Elf Fan"(Look at that hair! You need to grow up and grow a real beard! You're a dwarf dammit! Not some pansy elf!). :) And to me that sort of thing(if not that exactly) allows for showing how dwarves are as "real people" with all the sorts of quirks and weirdnesses that real people have rather than just representatives of the race. I don't think any of it would actually play a huge role in the film anyway so there isn't really anything to get that upset about.

And as I said, overall the reactions I've seen have been pretty positive to all the picture releases and for the most part the worst that is said is "Ah well, it's just one out of 13". :)


In Reply To
I mean, yeah, Kili is very easy on the eyes, (HeartTongueCoolBlush) but the real reason I'm not getting bent out of shape over this photo (or Nori's, for that matter, which I find even more absurd and ridiculous and yuck) is because their appearances really don't matter, in the end. if the character roles are written well, they could dress in clown outfits and it would work. But if the roles are written badly, all the prosthetics and beards and stumpy legs in New Zealand aren't going to save it.



LoremIpsum
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 5:24pm

Post #488 of 601 (10054 views)
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I love it [In reply to] Can't Post

it's nice to have some untraditional dwarves, it only makes them seem more like real people rather than fantasy creatures.


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 5:27pm

Post #489 of 601 (9981 views)
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Most excellent! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 5:28pm

Post #490 of 601 (10176 views)
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Peter Jackson's view of Middle-earth has never been mine [In reply to] Can't Post

but I found a way to allow the difference and in time even love the difference. The Hobbit movies are going to be a rip-roarin' adventure and a new view of my favorite fantasy world. I think it is destined to be great cinema.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 5:29pm

Post #491 of 601 (10068 views)
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And on the flip side... [In reply to] Can't Post

I had no issue with the LOTR cast. I hadn't seen most of them in anything anyway.

I just thought several of the roles were written badly (Aragorn, Merry, Pippin, Faramir, Denethor...).



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 5:31pm

Post #492 of 601 (10165 views)
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This is probably what I don't love... [In reply to] Can't Post

cause I want it to be a fantasy--a vacation from real people. Laugh

Fortunately, so far, Kili is the only one that draws me back into the real world. Hopefully even he will blend in when the movie becomes a movie, and not just a set of promo stills.

Permanent address: Into the West





RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 13 2011, 5:33pm

Post #493 of 601 (10135 views)
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PJ's already gone down that road. [In reply to] Can't Post

At least, he hasn't had gone short and dumpy yet, but I thought most of his LOTR elves were decidedly "Homely."



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

(This post was edited by RosieLass on Jul 13 2011, 5:33pm)


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 5:34pm

Post #494 of 601 (10036 views)
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No problems with casting for me either [In reply to] Can't Post

and since I had never read the LOTR books before PJ's adaption I adopted his LOTR as the one I imagined. The Hobbit may be different for me because I have read the book and imagined my own 'hobbit world'. I'lll test that statement December 2012.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Wraith Buster
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 6:07pm

Post #495 of 601 (10045 views)
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I dig their weapons [In reply to] Can't Post

The swords look dwarvish. Fili looks pretty good IMO but Kili looks like a human.

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 13 2011, 6:08pm

Post #496 of 601 (9941 views)
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Now, there's a thought! ;-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Jettorex
Lorien


Jul 13 2011, 6:32pm

Post #497 of 601 (9992 views)
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Now that.... [In reply to] Can't Post

.....is one strange looking dwarf!

I am sure he is going to be teased incessantly in the movie by the other dwarves. And he's not going to take kindly to it either.

The big question will be...is this Tauriel's love interest?


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."




Eldaria
Rivendell


Jul 13 2011, 6:41pm

Post #498 of 601 (9924 views)
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he's a her [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


In the early days there was speculation here about how many dwarves would be cast. Surely not the full 13? Would some be female?

Ohhhhh.....I get it now. Kili is a female dwarve. The length of the beard should have tipped us off. If they change the spelling of her name to Keely I think they can pull it off. NOT!!!

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 6:42pm

Post #499 of 601 (9870 views)
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Neither do I. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://newboards.theonering.net/...cgi?post=31326#31326

Obviously neither of us share in the consensus.

(You and I actually *agree* on something??? The Apocalypse is near!!!)

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 13 2011, 6:52pm

Post #500 of 601 (9858 views)
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Please be true! [In reply to] Can't Post

I have particular dislike for the drag queen looking effiminate Elves.

And yet nobody whines about them, thought it's pretty obvious they don't look what Tolkien ment Elves to look like. (Elves and Humans are practically the same species, and are only identified from each other by their eyes and voice.)

But all this time I've felt people are really less butthurt that the Dwarves are "different than in the books" than they're butthurt about them being "diffefrent than in LotR movies"

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Darkstone
Immortal


Jul 13 2011, 7:19pm

Post #501 of 601 (10222 views)
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You've put your finger.... [In reply to] Can't Post

...on why this time around fan criticism of The Hobbit will be twice as toxic as before:

But all this time I've felt people are really less butthurt that the Dwarves are "different than in the books" than they're butthurt about them being "diffefrent than in LotR movies"

Now there are not only Book Purists, but Film Purists.

Be afraid. Be very afraid.

******************************************
Brothers, sisters,
I was Elf once.
We danced together
Under the Two Trees.
We sang as the soft gold of Laurelin
And the bright silver of Telperion,
Brought forth the dawn of the world.
Then I was taken.

Brothers, sisters,
In my torment I kept faith,
And I waited.
But you never came.
And when I returned you drew sword,
And when I called your names you drew bow.
Was my Eldar beauty all,
And my soul nothing?

So be it.
I will return your hatred,
And I am hungry.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 13 2011, 7:23pm

Post #502 of 601 (10156 views)
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Tauriel's love interest? [In reply to] Can't Post

You are assuming that Tauriel will have a love interest. All we know about Tauriel is who is playing the part.


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 13 2011, 7:24pm)


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 7:30pm

Post #503 of 601 (10107 views)
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what i see... [In reply to] Can't Post

Are two cocky "greenhorns".
The world hasn't left its mark on these two, but things are about to change.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 13 2011, 7:37pm

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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post


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At least, he hasn't had gone short and dumpy yet, but I thought most of his LOTR elves were decidedly "Homely."


I don't think most of his elves were actually particularly beautiful. Heck IMO that's why Figwit stood out, he was actually kind of hot(not that I had any idea about this Figwit thing at the time but I do remember watching the movie and being like "Hey he's kind of cute" during his little scene--still a little horsey though:)).

Most of the Elves IMO ranged from bland to downright homely(in the US English sense meaning plain/ugly--I believe in some other English speaking countries it actually means simply attractive--maybe what we in the US might refer to as "all American" in looks, a nice fresh natural look). I think the only one who really came close was maybe Cate Blanchett, she's not really someone I'd normally consider all that hot but somehow she worked as an Elf. It may have been that at least she didn't have an excessively and/or bony long face. :)

But you know, it didn't ruin the movie for me, I don't even really think about it except that it just happened to come up here today. :)


Lindele
Gondor


Jul 13 2011, 7:38pm

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wow [In reply to] Can't Post

 


carrioncrow
Lorien

Jul 13 2011, 7:42pm

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