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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Pete is adding a lot of characters in the film adaption"...
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DrDeath153
Lorien

Mar 27 2011, 1:01pm

Post #101 of 149 (725 views)
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Cult Characters [In reply to] Can't Post

The absence of Glorfindel has never been something i've felt particularly strongly about because he was fundamentally moribund to the story of Lord of the Rings. Whatever his significance in the wider story and whatever his might and power and all the rest, those qualities did not qualify him for inclusion in the film. Now i know you've ranted on and on about how other minor characters got cameo roles, but to be honest, they didn't: in the vast majority of cases they were simply assigned names from the book either in the script or through the decipher trading cards, beyond that in many cases there was little else to link them to the characters from the book those names referred to, it was simply a way of giving them an identity beyond 'Council Elf 1' or 'Rohan soldier 5'. A good example of this is Gamling, who is a good generation younger than his book counterpart and is not a captain at helm's dike but rather Theoden's personal valet.

Obviously some of them did match (or could by the book-familiar audience could represent) their namesake characters, but they were not true representations of them, they were, much like these proposed new hobbit characters are predicted as being, simply there to populate scenes. So if there is an elven extra either from LotR or from the forthcoming Hobbit films they decide to slap the name Glorfindel onto, that's fine (extra points if they pick a blonde elf), but it won't matter if they don't to me because without further characterisation that identifies them specifically as Glorfindel, it will just be a hollow (but not unwelcome) gesture- the character you know would no more be in the film than if they had used the name on a man of dale or an elf of mirkwood.

Dr Death


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:32pm

Post #102 of 149 (741 views)
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Ta da! (link inside) [In reply to] Can't Post

The Frame Cap Library is great for tracking down moments like these.

http://www.framecaplib.com/...es/rotk/rotk2409.htm

My LiveJournal
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TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


sphdle1
Gondor


Mar 27 2011, 2:53pm

Post #103 of 149 (713 views)
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Some of the best or memorable characters in a movie adation are the ones made up [In reply to] Can't Post

Watching the making of Harry Potter and the Prisons from Azkaban, JK Rowling said she wished she had made up and had in her books the talking shrunken heads. Good comic relief if nothing else.

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Mar 27 2011, 4:40pm

Post #104 of 149 (705 views)
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The film Castaway... [In reply to] Can't Post

..included a completely isolated character for almost the entire film. I think it is not particularly difficult to pull that off for this short sequence.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 5:10pm

Post #105 of 149 (714 views)
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But these days, when people want "Action-Action-Action", [In reply to] Can't Post

it becomes hard to deal with what seems like a dead spot.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Flagg
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 5:27pm

Post #106 of 149 (690 views)
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I disagree. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Social Network

Release date: 1st October, 2010
Gross revenue: $224,583,810
Action: none


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 5:42pm

Post #107 of 149 (676 views)
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Where was the dead spot in Social Network? & [In reply to] Can't Post

I never realized that Social Network was a fantasy action adventure movie.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 7:58pm

Post #108 of 149 (626 views)
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That is the one. [In reply to] Can't Post

My thanks. THAT is the look of a mighty elf lord.

In Reply To
The Frame Cap Library is great for tracking down moments like these.

http://www.framecaplib.com/...es/rotk/rotk2409.htm


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 8:00pm

Post #109 of 149 (655 views)
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Glorious Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the link, Arwen's Daughter.

Yes, your guy could be Glorfindel. But I still think my guy is cuter Tongue

Yum.



“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


FaerieHammer
The Shire


Mar 28 2011, 1:35am

Post #110 of 149 (623 views)
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Yeah... [In reply to] Can't Post

but even a brief cameo wouldn't be hard to do. Why come up with different characters to insert when we have an abundance of minor characters that could easily fit the bill for whatever PJ's planning? And as to the audience's confusion, all they really need to know about Glorfindel is that he's good buddies with Gandalf, he's a high Elf of great power, and he's on the White Council. 'Nuff said.

And @ Eldaria : now that is a mighty pretty Elf Wink


(This post was edited by FaerieHammer on Mar 28 2011, 1:37am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 1:59am

Post #111 of 149 (601 views)
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How about they just keep Glorfindel out of the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

He seems to be nothing but trouble now and I think most audiences will be shaking their heads if he is included in TH so it would be safer to leave him out or even replace him again with another elf who could be part of the White Council.


Tseon
Registered User

Mar 28 2011, 2:47am

Post #112 of 149 (604 views)
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Glorfindel [In reply to] Can't Post

In my newbie eyes, I think one of the solutions for this Glonrfindel situation would be: Itaril could fall for Glorfindel. What you guys think of that?

That way he wouldn't just be a simple cameo, would have some development, and there would be an interesting reason for Itaril to show up in this story. But that's just my opinion....


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 2:52am

Post #113 of 149 (598 views)
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or Itaril could be replacing Glorfindel's role completely [In reply to] Can't Post

I never really thought of that but that makes perfect sense, but I guess all we can do at this point is hope.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 2:56am

Post #114 of 149 (582 views)
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You know that might just be the answer. [In reply to] Can't Post

Now why would the Big "G" be at the woodland realm?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 2:58am

Post #115 of 149 (586 views)
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He shouldn't be anywhere // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:02am

Post #116 of 149 (591 views)
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Where is this coming from and where is it going? [In reply to] Can't Post

A possibly non-existent character(Itaril) replacing one (Glorfindel) that is not in the book that is being adapted. My head is spinning.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:14am

Post #117 of 149 (564 views)
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Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

Twould be a simple matter. I won't extrapolate, but this really only makes sense. As to Dr. Deaths commentary. . . if an Elf is on the Council, fits the general paramaters of what one would expect with Glorfindel, speaks a line and is given that name in credit etc. He will be as much Glorfindel as the barman at The Prancing Pony was Barliman Butterbur, as Lobelia and Otto in EE FOTR were. . . well, Lobelia and Otto, and so forth. It would not be the same as if they gave the name to a dwarf. The one would be an acknowledgement of a known character. The other would be shifting a name for purposes unknown. There is no need to fill in his entire back history, and he becomes no less himself for it not being labouriously detailed, so long as he is represented in keeping with what the average reader would expect to find based on the books (I.E. Golden haired, majesterial, in Rivendell, friendly with Gandalf, on The White Council). We don't get the full text offered history of any character in the film, even the main ones, but Elrond does not cease to be Elrond because the film never gets into his Father, his twin, or his founding of Imladris. In regards to a Glorfindel cameo Those who know, would get it, appreciate the nod, and move forward. Those who don't, see just another majestic Elf lord, and loose nothing, any more than they lost for encountering the other minor cameos. As with so many other nods to the texts in the films, minor Cameos, name drops, chapter title refferences et al, those who are familliar will smile and appreciate the homage to the source material and the characters and events therein, without any shoehorning or sidetracking required. It would please many while harming none, and and more importantly without damaging or derailing the films.

In Reply To
but even a brief cameo wouldn't be hard to do. Why come up with different characters to insert when we have an abundance of minor characters that could easily fit the bill for whatever PJ's planning? And as to the audience's confusion, all they really need to know about Glorfindel is that he's good buddies with Gandalf, he's a high Elf of great power, and he's on the White Council. 'Nuff said.

And @ Eldaria : now that is a mighty pretty Elf Wink


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 3:17am

Post #118 of 149 (588 views)
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Well there's been alot of talk about this Itaril [In reply to] Can't Post

Assuming that this character that they have invented is actually real then I just thought that a good way to work her into the story would be to replace her with Glorfindel's role in the White Council. Arwen replaced him in LOTR so having Itaril replace him in TH seems like the most logical thing to do and I think most people will be very thankful if this happens.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Mar 28 2011, 3:23am

Post #119 of 149 (570 views)
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Doesn't really make much sense to me... [In reply to] Can't Post

...to have Itaril replace anybody, but that's just me. Itaril most likely will not come anywhere near the secret White Council, anyways, besides maybe fighting in the siege of Dol Guldur. By the way, I notice you keep saying people will be thankful for Glorfindel to not be in the story, why so? Did he pee in your cheerios at some point?...lol Tongue

"I'm just a happy camper! Rockin' and a-rollin!"


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:25am

Post #120 of 149 (606 views)
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But Glorfindle's role on th White Council is not confirmed by Tolkien as far as I know. [In reply to] Can't Post

I have heard conjecture as to why he had to be a participant but there appears to be no way to know for sure. So now...Crazy

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 3:29am

Post #121 of 149 (581 views)
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Ok then tell that to the people who say he needs to be shown in TH [In reply to] Can't Post

If he's not even confirmed to be part of the White Council then I think it's safe to say we'll never see him on film... that's worthy of a sigh of relief.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:37am

Post #122 of 149 (577 views)
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I really think it is not worth getting excited about either way. [In reply to] Can't Post

Glorfindil is in...
Glorfindil is out...

He is a minor character in the Lord of the Rings and is not in "The Hobbit's" text. It truly is irrelevant to me if he has a cameo. But if it makes someone happy I hope they show & name him. I really do not want to hear about his unjust treatment for all of the rest of my life.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Mar 28 2011, 3:38am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:40am

Post #123 of 149 (570 views)
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It is largely in his own commetary. [In reply to] Can't Post

In Fellowship, at The Council of Elrond, he speaks of former councils, and as one in attendance at them. At several points he refferences prior meetings of The White Council, even going so far as to comment about Saruman at earlier meetings of The White Council (" It is clear now that, even at The Council, his feet were already on a crooked path. He knew The Ring was not lost forever. He only wished us to think so"). He is the only Elf Lord in attendance (aside from Elrond) to do so. Recall too that Gandalf says several times that "some here will remember" concerning things that were debated and discussed at those White Council meetings. He doesn't say, "Elrond will recall," he says some, which is plural. We know no one at The Council of Elrond were present at those meetings aside from Gandalf, Elrond and some of The Elf Lords, of whom only Glorfindel, Erestor, Galdor are named. The "some here" cannot reffer to Cirdan, Saruman, or Galadriel, the only other persons named by Simarillion as being on The White Council. Also, of Erestor and Galdor, Tolkien specifically spells out in other writings (Peoples of Middle-Earth for example), that Glorfindel is an elf of far greater wisdom and power than are either of these, and is indeed the mightiest of The Noldo dwelling in Rivendell. Combine this with other side writings of Tolkien, and the fact that alongside the prior named members of The White Council there were "Other Lords of The Eldar," and Glorfindel's seat, at least from a narrative standpoint, is secured. If any Elf Lord other than Elrond, Cirdan and Galadriel are going to be represented in the film version of the council, Glorfindel is by far the most proper candidate. Can you really imagine him loosing his seat to Galdor?

Eldaria, warm welcome to you. I meant to respond further, but forgot in the wake of reading and replying to other commentary. The pics you posted were great. I still put my vote behind the Minas Tirith Elf, however. For three reasons. First, his placement and expression suggest a strong familiarity with Elrond himself. Also, while I do not pretend that he is more fair of face than the other Elf Lords presented, he seems more, to my thought, to exude the sense of majesty and power one would expect of Glorfindel. He looks like someone who could have silenced the laughter of The Nazgul Lord and sent The Witch King of Angmar fleeing from those battle fields in the long ago years of The North.

In Reply To
I have heard conjecture as to why he had to be a participant but there appears to be no way to know for sure. So now...Crazy


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Mar 28 2011, 3:46am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 28 2011, 3:50am

Post #124 of 149 (580 views)
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Trust me... very few people will be happy if he's in [In reply to] Can't Post

As for Itaril though I trust PJ and if he thinks the movies need a female elf to play a larger role then I say he should do it. She might become a character that even the most Tolkien purists will fall in love with.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 28 2011, 3:51am

Post #125 of 149 (557 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

"It's never stated explicitly that Glorfindel was a member of the Council, but his rank would seem to imply that he warranted membership. At the very least, he had knowledge of many of the Council's secrets, and was ready to aid it in its policies." Encyclopedia of Arda

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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