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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Pete is adding a lot of characters in the film adaption"...
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:09am

Post #76 of 149 (658 views)
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This is not so in even distribution. [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't need a shoehorn for Glorfindel. You just let him show up where he would be expected to be found anyway, and give him a line or two. He lives in Rivendell, and he is on The White Council.

Juxtapose this to some of these other parties you allude to:

Merry: Not born, period.
Pippin:Not born, period.
Sam: see above
Boromir: See above
Faramir: See above
Theoden AND his sister's children: see above
Tom Bombadil: By Gandalf's account, he would not have come to any of the places we otherwise might think to find him. . . a council of The Powers of Good remaining in Middle-Earth, for example.
Denethor: far away in Gondor, which does not come into this tale

Should I go on. Frankly, Glorfindel fits in more easily than Frodo. At least you don't have to take a break from the timline of The Narrative to encounter him.

In Reply To
If you can shoehorn them into the plot why can't everyone come back. Result...Star Wars the second trilogy.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:09am

Post #77 of 149 (645 views)
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It is not that I am against Glorfindel personally, [In reply to] Can't Post

I just can't see getting that excited about something that will not be effected no matter how hard you scream. It did not help Bombadil (One of my favorite characters). Weather or not any peripheral character shows up in the Hobbit has pretty much been decided. I do not view the omission of Bombadil or Glorfindel or Imrahil as a personal insult. They are just omissions based on expediency as viewed by the director.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:18am

Post #78 of 149 (616 views)
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None are suggesting that every concil member be named. [In reply to] Can't Post

We are speaking of an Elf more consequential than Galdor or Erestor. And frankly, in terms of deeds performed within The War of The Ring, more significant and consequential than Haldir, Elladan, Elrohir, Beregond . .. even Legolas for that matter, despite the latter's far greater page time and involvement with The Fellowship, but forsooth, what deed does our beloved Legolas accomplish that holds water when compared to Glorfindel essentially saving Frodo from being captured by The Nine or to his driving of The Witchking of Angmar from the field of battle at Fornost?

I'll tell you what, you tell me how working in Otto Proudfoot, Farmer Maggot, Gamling, Butterbur, the younf lord who touts Denethor's foresight to Gandalf, the Elf who asks Arwen to stay with the departing Elves, Wulf, and in The Extended, Lobelia, Otto and Ted Sandyman, or how the vast expansion on the role of Haldir, were in any way more appropriate, more essential, or more fitting than it would have been to have given Glorfindel the cameo and brief one or two liner that he so deeply deserved, and further tell me why all of those characters deserved inclusion and acknowlegement in this film series more than Glorfindel did, and I will back off of this argument and buy you a soft drink and a pretzel.

In Reply To
Extra names and faces confuse casual movie audiences. As much as many fans hate it, it's the reason Glorfindel was cut in the first place, along with Imrahil, the sons of Elrond, Beregond, etc. I suspect that most of the members of the white council will go unnamed for the same reason.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:32am

Post #79 of 149 (609 views)
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Here is the difference between Glorfindel and Bombadil [In reply to] Can't Post

They would have had to have worked to make a place for Bombadil. I think it could have been done, but I can see why they didn't do it. It would have required a loop out of the main story line. To put him at Elrond's council would have contradicted what Gandalf said of him in the book. It is really hard, not impossible but very difficult, to make any space for him in the film of LOTR without really going out on a limb.

Not so Glorfindel. You really had to work to keep him out of the film. He Belonged at The Concil of Elrond ( I sometimes imagine he was one of The two more respectable blonde Elves There. . . the one who did the least silent yelling at the dwarves Wink ). It would have been easier than sipping iced tea on a hot summer day to give him some minor line at the council, the same way other minor characters were allowed small lines, and in the same way that completely fabricated for film characters were allowed minor speaking parts. It would not have been out of place, it would not have required any sidetracking of the storyline, nor any shoehorning, AND, it would not have confused or teased characters not familliar with the cannon any more than the presence of Butterbur, Farmer Maggot, Gamling or Faramir's lieutenant in Ithillien confused or caused consternation. Yet millions of Glorfindel fans would have felt a surge of joy knowing one of their much loved characters, and one of the more legendary figures in LOTR, had been given his proper and lasting film moment. To deny him this, especially in light of the acknowlegements and even expansions in a few cases that other characters of less significance were given , is nothing less than a foul and eggregious act of disrespect to his character, and a thum in the eye of those who are fans of him.

In Reply To
I just can't see getting that excited about something that will not be effected no matter how hard you scream. It did not help Bombadil (One of my favorite characters). Weather or not any peripheral character shows up in the Hobbit has pretty much been decided. I do not view the omission of Bombadil or Glorfindel or Imrahil as a personal insult. They are just omissions based on expediency as viewed by the director.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by AinurOlorin on Mar 27 2011, 3:34am)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Mar 27 2011, 3:36am

Post #80 of 149 (608 views)
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I feel... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the same way, really. If they have something cool for him to do, and they explore his character, then go for it. Otherwise, it's not life and death for me, and most importantly, not for the casual audience who will make up most of the ticket sales.

"I'm just a happy camper! Rockin' and a-rollin!"


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:43am

Post #81 of 149 (654 views)
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I just feel that, especially in light of the fact that so much was hijacked from him [In reply to] Can't Post

in the first film (understandably hijacked, but it doesn't change the fact that the Elf was robbed and then some), and in light of the near dozen cameos for less consequential characters, that it would do more good than harm to give him at least a brief cameo at Rivendell/on The White Council. It would please many, and I cannot see it offending anyone. And it would be a simple and minor enough thing that the casual viewing audience wouldn't even notice it. Leaving him out of the film pentalogy steps on a great many more toes than giving him a fleeting cameo line could ever possibly manage.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 3:53am

Post #82 of 149 (671 views)
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Who was this Elve? [In reply to] Can't Post

    
I never agreed with the choice of actor they used to depict Glorfindel in the Decipher card set. No offence to the actor, but he was much too young and I don't feel that there is anything regal about his look. The website 'Glorfindel of Imladris' posted this picture from LOTR (? ROTK) with a possible candidate for Glorfindel - beautiful face, tall, elegant - the way he carries himself, he projects wisdom and nobility. I too was upset that Glorfindel didn't have a speaking part in the movie, but I believe that this is him, nonetheless.



“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”

(This post was edited by Eldaria on Mar 27 2011, 3:54am)


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 3:58am

Post #83 of 149 (613 views)
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The guy on the right is not the same... [In reply to] Can't Post

as the two on the left... just saying.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 4:25am

Post #84 of 149 (610 views)
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clarification [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The guy on the right is not the same.......as the two on the left... just saying.

Ummm ..... I know.

The guy (2 photos) on the right is the Decipher card who I think is not even close to being a decent Glorfindel.

The guy on the left is the one I'm asking about. He was in ROTK, although nameless, and I think he is/was/could be Glorfindel.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 27 2011, 4:27am

Post #85 of 149 (584 views)
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So if he's not in TH you'll actually be quite upset by that? [In reply to] Can't Post

How can a character of such unimportance mean so much? If they got rid of him in LOTR then I doubt they'll throw him in TH which he isn't even suppose to be in. If they add him to the white council stuff then I still think that he will be frowned upon by most people not matter what type of role he plays. I bet if someone made a facebook page called "Keep Glorfindel out of The Hobbit" it would get over 10,000 likes in the first day.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 4:29am

Post #86 of 149 (613 views)
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None of your pics are labeled... [In reply to] Can't Post

kind of hard to tell what you're talking about... makes more sense now.

No offense meant.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 4:30am

Post #87 of 149 (586 views)
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People should not play with matches around Dynamite.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Mar 27 2011, 4:31am

Post #88 of 149 (617 views)
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General Comment ---> It's time to take a deep breath and agree to disagree [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread has gotten *way* too emotional in spots with many edits necessary. If it continues down this road, it will be locked.

We have a loooong way to go before we start hearing of actual additions and deletions of characters. If we can't even discuss potential changes, I can't imagine how dealing with real changes will be, but rest assured it will be discussed in a level-headed, respectful manner. Cursing and disrespecting other poster won't be tolerated here.

Thanks,

Altaira


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

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(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 27 2011, 4:43am)


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 27 2011, 4:35am

Post #89 of 149 (599 views)
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Sorry but I love watching dynamite explode // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 4:35am

Post #90 of 149 (607 views)
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newbie here ... still learning. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
kind of hard to tell what you're talking about... makes more sense now.

No offense meant.

None taken Evil

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 4:35am

Post #91 of 149 (561 views)
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Looking for fire extinguisher.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 4:36am

Post #92 of 149 (581 views)
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She has arrived.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 4:36am

Post #93 of 149 (613 views)
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The more the merrier! Thanks for the pics! [In reply to] Can't Post

And welcome to TheOneRing!

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 5:15am

Post #94 of 149 (555 views)
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Thanks for the welcome! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have been lurking for a while. I thought joining the community here would help pass the time until Dec 2012 and no doubt I'd learn a thing or two.

I was so blown away by PJ's amazing adaptation - every glorious second of it, and I'm anticipating the wonders of TH as much as anyone. My only problem was the omissions in LOTR, particularly Radagast. And Glorfindel, Elladan & Elrohir. Well, Cirdan & Imrahil too. And Fredegar. And Folco and .....

I'll guess I'll be happy with whatever PJ gives us, no matter what he includes or cuts. And no matter how long the movies are, even if they run over 4 or 5 hours, I'll still come away wanting more.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 5:22am

Post #95 of 149 (547 views)
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Glad u joined! [In reply to] Can't Post

I know the feeling... I can't get enough of the films/booms either!

Smile

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 5:43am

Post #96 of 149 (557 views)
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Haha! *books* [In reply to] Can't Post

Not booms... Silly me.

Oh dearLaugh

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 5:55am

Post #97 of 149 (622 views)
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In ROTK there is an Elf behind Elrond, standing right at his shoulder, actually [In reply to] Can't Post

And I and many others here have always felt that this was the perfect Glorfindel. He is not in your above pics, but some have posted his pic before. I think the cast description of him is as Gildor, but it seems like an error. The younger Elf seems more fitting to Gildor. The Elf who stands, smiling, radiant and exuding belevolent strength beside Elrond in Minas Tirith. . . THAT guy is amazingly Glorfindel by my reckoning. Do you know the one to whom I am reffereing?

In Reply To

I never agreed with the choice of actor they used to depict Glorfindel in the Decipher card set. No offence to the actor, but he was much too young and I don't feel that there is anything regal about his look. The website 'Glorfindel of Imladris' posted this picture from LOTR (? ROTK) with a possible candidate for Glorfindel - beautiful face, tall, elegant - the way he carries himself, he projects wisdom and nobility. I too was upset that Glorfindel didn't have a speaking part in the movie, but I believe that this is him, nonetheless.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Eldaria
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 7:20am

Post #98 of 149 (582 views)
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Glorfindel the Gorgeous [In reply to] Can't Post

"And I and many others here have always felt that this was the perfect Glorfindel. He is not in your above pics, but some have posted his pic before. I think the cast description of him is as Gildor, but it seems like an error. The younger Elf seems more fitting to Gildor. The Elf who stands, smiling, radiant and exuding belevolent strength beside Elrond in Minas Tirith. . . THAT guy is amazingly Glorfindel by my reckoning. Do you know the one to whom I am reffereing?"


I know of whom you speak Wink

I can understand people thinking that Gildor might actually be Glorfindel, especially seeing as how he was with Elrond. But for me personally, he doesn't rank high enough on my scale of Elven-ess - Figwit being about a 5, Erestor a 6, Gildor a 7. My Glorifindel, (in the photo above - riding the horse), is about a 9.5, only because he didn't speak. Besides, I think he's deliciously gorgeous - as Elves go.

I also think, IMHO, that he, of any other Elve, would be the one entrusted with Arwen's safety as she travelled to the Grey Havens. That's why it makes sense to me that he is Glorfindel. But I would have expected him to accompany her back to Rivendell.

“There are some things that time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep ... that have taken hold.”


jrpipik
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 11:46am

Post #99 of 149 (524 views)
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No reason not to include Glorfindel then. [In reply to] Can't Post

If he was there, he could easily be part of the movie.

In Reply To
He says that he may have been sent to aid the remaining Elves in The Second Age, but that it is also possible that, as he was a friend and follower of Olorin The Maia in Valinor, he may have come in The Third Age, with special thought for both Gandalf and The Elves. The first accounts of him outside of The First Age are of his leading a host from Rivendell, and eventually of him driving The Witch-King of Angmar from the field in the battle of Fornost.

In Reply To
I know it's not in LOTR but is in UT or the histories?




jrpipik
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 11:57am

Post #100 of 149 (540 views)
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Lurtz2010 is pulling our collective leg. [In reply to] Can't Post

No need to go to such lengths to disprove what he's saying. He's just joking around to get our backs up.

In Reply To
And what is this nonsense about Frodo thinking him a fool? Where the hell does that come from? I would ask you to cite something, but as no such thing exists, I know it would never be forthcoming. One would have to read the lines of a different text in order to come up with what you are suggesting. Perhaps you are confusing Glorfindel with Galdor, Erestor or Gildor. But Glorfindel a fool? Wtf. Glorfindel of whom the text speaks, sitting to the left of Elrond as Gandalf sat to his right, "Glorfindel was tall and straight. . . his face fair and young, his eyes keen and bright and full of joy. On his brow sat wisdom and in his hand was strength." Gimli never even has any interaction with Glorfindel, so how you came to the conclusion that he hated him is beyond me. I don't think there is anyone on this entire forum who has the notion that Gimli bore any personal dislike towards Glorfindel. It is Legolas who Gloin has an outburst towards during the council, if you recall.

And on The Council, Glorfindel is supportive of Gandalf, in regards to Iarwain, and comments on how Saruman was on a twisted path already at The White Council. . . but he does not say anything to annoy Gandalf. It is Galdor and Erestor who make comments that may be said to have briefly annoyed Gandalf, or at least which provoked a mild reprimand from him.

People want to see Glorfindel for the same reason some want to see Legolas etc. He is, while minor in his page time, a significant figure in the Legendarium. He is a close friend to Gandalf, by Tolkien's own account, and also the mightiest of the Noldor Elves in Rivendell. He is the mightiest of the Male Noldor whom we encounter, one of the few High-Elves at all active in LOTR, AND the second greatest of the pure Noldor left in Middle-Earth aside from Galadriel herself. If not for his having driven several of The Nazgul from the bridge at Mitheniel, Aragorn and the hobbits likely would not have made it so far as they did after the attack on Weathertop. There is NO PLACE IN THE TEXT where Gandalf seems to be struggling to avoid speaking ill of Glorfindel. All that he says of him is praise worthy, and the same goes for Frodo. You seem to be just making things up out of an unexplained hostility towards this character. Glorfindel drove The Witch-King of Angmar from the field of battle in one of the more significant battles of The Third Age. . . neither Haldir nor Legolas can claim anything so auspicious, and I will be surprised (and troubled) if Itaril is able to match such a feat.

In Reply To
I can't understand why people get worked up over him not being in LOTR, he meant nothing. If you read between the lines you can clearly see that even Frodo thought him a fool and it's pretty obvious that Gandalf was trying his best not to speak ill of him in the book and I think we could all pick up on how much Gimli hated him aswell. If he had been in the FOTR I'm quite sure that the movie wouldn't have had the same success it had without him, he would've been a character that most audiences would look at in a negative way. I think PJ is aware of this and won't risk adding him into TH.



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