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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
"Pete is adding a lot of characters in the film adaption"...
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 26 2011, 11:51pm

Post #51 of 149 (684 views)
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I see how that could work. [In reply to] Can't Post

Good looking out, elf scout Wink

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


firebride42
The Shire


Mar 26 2011, 11:55pm

Post #52 of 149 (701 views)
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Totally agree. [In reply to] Can't Post

Benedict Cumberbatch would be an epic Glorfindel. Loved him and Freeman in Sherlock.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 12:21am

Post #53 of 149 (702 views)
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I really do hope they give Glorfindel his place in Rivendell and on The Council. [In reply to] Can't Post

He is one of if not The ONLY person aside from the repeatedly named parties who we know was on The White Council (see Council of Elrond etceteras). They have backwards worked Radagast into The Hobbit (even though he only recieves one brief name mention in the actual book, far too little to actually make a part out of on its own), and I think Glorfindel deserves no less. They didn't clean lift Barliman Butterbur, nor Farmer Maggot, nor Gamling. In the extended they even made room for Lobelia and Otto Sackville-Bagins. . . and Ted Sandyman. . . Ted Damned Sandyman of ALL people! They could and should have given Glorfindel at least a minor diminshed role with a brief cameo at The Council of Elrond. Even if all he said was something as simple as Galdor's "What of Saruman? What is his council to us?" line.

To completely cast him out with the exception of his silent "sighting" cameo in ROTK was a vulgarity. To put added Film Team made up characters in The Hobbit, especially at the Elven havens, and still leave Glorfindel unnamed and mute would be extremely offensive.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."

(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 27 2011, 3:19am)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Mar 27 2011, 12:44am

Post #54 of 149 (669 views)
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Woah, chill pills, man... [In reply to] Can't Post

Glorfindel would have to have some reason to be in The Hobbit, if he is to be featured. He was important in leading armies against Sauron's broader attacks on Middle-Earth, which were of course not shown in LotR films (PJ actually talks about this in the DVD's). As far as Radagast, he's a confidant of Gandalf's and Beorn's, and lives at the edge of Mirkwood, making it a relatively easy choice to include him in the films, considering he also helps Saruman.

"I'm just a happy camper! Rockin' and a-rollin!"

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Mar 27 2011, 12:47am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 12:50am

Post #55 of 149 (686 views)
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Chill nothing. I have no intention of chilling on this matter in light of this "additional characters" business [In reply to] Can't Post

The reason is He lives in Rivendell, he is the most powerful Noldo in Rivendell, and the second mightiest pure Noldo/High-Elf remaining in All Middle-Earth next to Galadriel herself, by Tolkien's account, he is a special friend to Gandalf, also by Tolkien's own account, and he is a member of THe White Council, which will be featured in the film. Also he was throughly disresepected by Peter in LOTR, and without good cause. He could at least have had minor speaking cameo status. If they are going to make characters up out of the ether, Elves in particular, or give nameless guards names and backgrounds, they damn well need to show a little respect to this prominent Elf of Rivendell and the Legendarium. Working him in will be less work than even Radaghast. He LIVES in Rivendell, for the sake of Eru.

In Reply To
Glorfindel would have to have some reason to be in The Hobbit, if he is to be featured. He was important in leading armies against Sauron's broader attacks on Middle-Earth, which were of course not shown in LotR films (PJ actually talks about this in the DVD's). As far as Radagast, he's a confidant of Gandalf's, and lives at the edge of Mirkwood, making it a relatively easy choice to include him in the films, considering he also helps Saruman.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 12:55am

Post #56 of 149 (660 views)
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You have made your preferences perfectly clear. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
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At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 1:07am

Post #57 of 149 (655 views)
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Good. [In reply to] Can't Post

I stand by them steadfastly.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


lurtz2010
Rohan

Mar 27 2011, 1:07am

Post #58 of 149 (633 views)
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Glorfindel is not needed [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't understand why people get worked up over him not being in LOTR, he meant nothing. If you read between the lines you can clearly see that even Frodo thought him a fool and it's pretty obvious that Gandalf was trying his best not to speak ill of him in the book and I think we could all pick up on how much Gimli hated him aswell. If he had been in the FOTR I'm quite sure that the movie wouldn't have had the same success it had without him, he would've been a character that most audiences would look at in a negative way. I think PJ is aware of this and won't risk adding him into TH.


jrpipik
Rivendell


Mar 27 2011, 1:12am

Post #59 of 149 (637 views)
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Do we know when Glorfindel returned to Middle Earth? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it's not in LOTR but is in UT or the histories?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 1:27am

Post #60 of 149 (643 views)
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It isn't clear, and Tolkien gives several possibilities. [In reply to] Can't Post

He says that he may have been sent to aid the remaining Elves in The Second Age, but that it is also possible that, as he was a friend and follower of Olorin The Maia in Valinor, he may have come in The Third Age, with special thought for both Gandalf and The Elves. The first accounts of him outside of The First Age are of his leading a host from Rivendell, and eventually of him driving The Witch-King of Angmar from the field in the battle of Fornost.

In Reply To
I know it's not in LOTR but is in UT or the histories?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


PattyJB
Rivendell

Mar 27 2011, 1:51am

Post #61 of 149 (582 views)
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Regardless of whether you think he is also Glorfindel of Gondolin [In reply to] Can't Post

And I do - We know that he led the elves from Rivendell who fought at the battle of Fornost, III 1974, where the Witch King of Angmar and his forces were defeated, and where Glorfindel made his famous prediction.


FaerieHammer
The Shire


Mar 27 2011, 1:57am

Post #62 of 149 (632 views)
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Um... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I can't understand why people get worked up over him not being in LOTR, he meant nothing. If you read between the lines you can clearly see that even Frodo thought him a fool and it's pretty obvious that Gandalf was trying his best not to speak ill of him in the book and I think we could all pick up on how much Gimli hated him aswell. If he had been in the FOTR I'm quite sure that the movie wouldn't have had the same success it had without him, he would've been a character that most audiences would look at in a negative way. I think PJ is aware of this and won't risk adding him into TH.


I'm new to the forums, and somewhat to LOTR (at least to the books), but I'm reading FOTR as we speak, and Glorfindel is definitely signifigant. He's the one who comes to the aid of Aragorn & the hobbits during the crossing at the Ford of Bruinen. It's his horse Asfaloth that gets Frodo across Bruinen and out of the reaches of the Nazgul, who were driven, "dismayed", to the shore by the Elf-lord. It says in the book that he was a great friend of Gandalf's and, though not specifically named, was part of the White Council. He's WAAAAAYYYYYYY more signifigant than, say, Haldir. I don't know where you're getting your information, but it's certainly not from any of Tolkien's writings.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Mar 27 2011, 4:45am)


duats
Grey Havens

Mar 27 2011, 2:29am

Post #63 of 149 (597 views)
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Absolutely right [In reply to] Can't Post

Even if it were a mere cameo, he'd easily fit.

-Lives in Rivendell.
-One of the most powerful living Elves during the time of The Hobbit/Lord of the Rings.
-Member of the White Council.

There really is no excuse to include a made-up female elf character, and fail to include Glorfindel in some capacity. At least, I can't think of any.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 2:42am

Post #64 of 149 (593 views)
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I've long felt... [In reply to] Can't Post

that TH movies would be a great place to include characters cut from the LotR films, such as Glorfindel, Elladan/Elrohir, Bombadil, Ghan-Buri-Ghan and the Barrow-wights. When we were going to be getting a "Bridge Film", I had even hoped Imrahil would make an appearance in there somewhere!

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Mar 27 2011, 2:45am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:43am

Post #65 of 149 (550 views)
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Kind of like a land fill.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
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At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 2:46am

Post #66 of 149 (604 views)
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They're there, so why not use them? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:50am

Post #67 of 149 (600 views)
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The would serve the same function as actors comming back for cameos. [In reply to] Can't Post

They would just clutter up the movie. Maybe they could just appear after the end credits and take a bow.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
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At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Mar 27 2011, 2:50am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:53am

Post #68 of 149 (593 views)
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It isn't a matter of need. If it were, a great many more characters would have been left out of the films. [In reply to] Can't Post

Is Otto Proudfoot needed? Is Barliman Butterbur? What of Gamling, Haldir (Haldir who is not even a tenth the Elf that Glorfindel is), Ted Sandyman for God's Sake? None of them are needed, but they add to the films each in their minor way. They do not harm it for neophytes, and for all those who have read the books, their inclusion is like the welcome faces of old friends, and proper nods to those who are part of the LOTR experience. And not one of them, not ONE of them, is as significant as Glorfindel, nor as august, nor do they have such a list of noble and great deeds to their credit. Yet they all received at least a gentle nod, enough to become part of the permanent history of the definitive ( at least for the foreseeable future) filmic account of these works., while Glorfindel was shamefully snubbed.

And what is this nonsense about Frodo thinking him a fool? Where the hell does that come from? I would ask you to cite something, but as no such thing exists, I know it would never be forthcoming. One would have to read the lines of a different text in order to come up with what you are suggesting. Perhaps you are confusing Glorfindel with Galdor, Erestor or Gildor. But Glorfindel a fool? Wtf. Glorfindel of whom the text speaks, sitting to the left of Elrond as Gandalf sat to his right, "Glorfindel was tall and straight. . . his face fair and young, his eyes keen and bright and full of joy. On his brow sat wisdom and in his hand was strength." Gimli never even has any interaction with Glorfindel, so how you came to the conclusion that he hated him is beyond me. I don't think there is anyone on this entire forum who has the notion that Gimli bore any personal dislike towards Glorfindel. It is Legolas who Gloin has an outburst towards during the council, if you recall.

And on The Council, Glorfindel is supportive of Gandalf, in regards to Iarwain, and comments on how Saruman was on a twisted path already at The White Council. . . but he does not say anything to annoy Gandalf. It is Galdor and Erestor who make comments that may be said to have briefly annoyed Gandalf, or at least which provoked a mild reprimand from him.

People want to see Glorfindel for the same reason some want to see Legolas etc. He is, while minor in his page time, a significant figure in the Legendarium. He is a close friend to Gandalf, by Tolkien's own account, and also the mightiest of the Noldor Elves in Rivendell. He is the mightiest of the Male Noldor whom we encounter, one of the few High-Elves at all active in LOTR, AND the second greatest of the pure Noldor left in Middle-Earth aside from Galadriel herself. If not for his having driven several of The Nazgul from the bridge at Mitheniel, Aragorn and the hobbits likely would not have made it so far as they did after the attack on Weathertop. There is NO PLACE IN THE TEXT where Gandalf seems to be struggling to avoid speaking ill of Glorfindel. All that he says of him is praise worthy, and the same goes for Frodo. You seem to be just making things up out of an unexplained hostility towards this character. Glorfindel drove The Witch-King of Angmar from the field of battle in one of the more significant battles of The Third Age. . . neither Haldir nor Legolas can claim anything so auspicious, and I will be surprised (and troubled) if Itaril is able to match such a feat.

In Reply To
I can't understand why people get worked up over him not being in LOTR, he meant nothing. If you read between the lines you can clearly see that even Frodo thought him a fool and it's pretty obvious that Gandalf was trying his best not to speak ill of him in the book and I think we could all pick up on how much Gimli hated him aswell. If he had been in the FOTR I'm quite sure that the movie wouldn't have had the same success it had without him, he would've been a character that most audiences would look at in a negative way. I think PJ is aware of this and won't risk adding him into TH.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 2:54am

Post #69 of 149 (580 views)
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Not if they could be worked into the plot... [In reply to] Can't Post

Glorfindel - On the White Council, fights at the Battle of Dol Guldur

Bombadil - Saves Bilbo and the Dwarves from the Barrow-wights before the encounter with the Stone Trolls, (alternativly, could save Gandafl's friends in the "B-plot")

Elladan or Elrohir - In Rivdendell, aides Gandalf in his quest against the Necromancer

Ghan-Buri-Ghan - In Mirkwood, helps Gandalf and his allies against the Necromancer

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:56am

Post #70 of 149 (550 views)
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He would not clutter the movie, Kangi. [In reply to] Can't Post

He lives in Rivendell, consels Elrond, is close in friendship with Gandalf, and is on The White Council. If Radagast is not clutter, and if Haldir did not clutter LOTR, then Glorfindel would not clutter The Hobbit by merely being seen, and briefly speaking. Frown (this is the equivalent of rolling eys with an angry, disgusted expression).

In Reply To
They would just clutter up the movie. Maybe they could just appear after the end credits and take a bow.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 2:59am

Post #71 of 149 (568 views)
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Again the same is true about every actor in Lord of the Rings. [In reply to] Can't Post

If you can shoehorn them into the plot why can't everyone come back. Result...Star Wars the second trilogy.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:02am

Post #72 of 149 (570 views)
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There's a reason they didn't name most of the Rivendell council on film [In reply to] Can't Post

Extra names and faces confuse casual movie audiences. As much as many fans hate it, it's the reason Glorfindel was cut in the first place, along with Imrahil, the sons of Elrond, Beregond, etc. I suspect that most of the members of the white council will go unnamed for the same reason.

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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 3:03am

Post #73 of 149 (559 views)
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Well I maintain it could work... [In reply to] Can't Post

we know they're expanding the scope of the films, the new material will have to be populated by someone!

BTW, seeing Chewbacca, Boba Fett, ETC again is not the same thing as seeing characters from the books for the first time.

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Mar 27 2011, 3:06am

Post #74 of 149 (549 views)
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I would have to agree... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not just because audiences would be confused... because I think the Tolkien fan base could keep track... but also because there is no way to do all of the characters justice (even with a simpler story). Someone is going to always feel that this one or that one got slighted in some way. I think they try to find the soul of the story and the pivotal characters, and then work around that. Sometimes characters and their actions get merged so that the story get's told, but in that compressed manor that Kangi Ska referred to earlier...

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Mar 27 2011, 3:07am

Post #75 of 149 (612 views)
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Might as well say this here [In reply to] Can't Post

just to get it out there for all time...

When I make predictions about TH (in jest or otherwise) since GDT isn't around to fight for the elements he wanted to see in the film, I am commenting on the film that PJ and co are making. Yes it would be nice if, by and large, G's vision for TH remains intact. But PJ has the final say now, it is his film, and that is the film I am talking about.

Films change directors all the time. For better or worse who can say? Out of respect for the effort that is going into this thing, as well as for GDT, all we can really comment on now, or make predictions about, is the film PJ is making.

Heart

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