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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Del Toro's Smaug
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silneldor
Half-elven


Feb 1 2011, 6:45pm

Post #151 of 246 (6875 views)
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I still think my dragon is best. [In reply to] Can't Post

*Walks away with nose up in the air*

''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III

May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo













Bound
Rohan


Feb 1 2011, 6:50pm

Post #152 of 246 (6857 views)
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LIKE [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said. Just wonderful !

the man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


BlueMan
Rivendell


Feb 1 2011, 6:54pm

Post #153 of 246 (6896 views)
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well said// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Raptos a diis homines dici ...


Hellmistress
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:02pm

Post #154 of 246 (6856 views)
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Well said Flagg - [In reply to] Can't Post

 - you explained it perfectly. Kudos.

HM


Bran
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:09pm

Post #155 of 246 (6870 views)
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Personally [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see it as mocking GDT, and far be it from me to do that to a person of his clear and obvious talents.

From where I am sitting, it's more a question of having lived with these books for decades, seeing some interpretations I like, and others I dislike. Some things that I feel fit comfortably into Tolkien's world and some I do not. When I see the work of Howe and Lee, I find myself in great agreement with their interpretations. Others, less so, and others still, I see as quite clearly wrong.

To me.

I think one of the moderators hit the nail on the head earlier. It's quite reasonable to state opposition to an idea or opinion, but not to take that to a personal level about an artist or a poster.

I also feel the level of passion reflects the love of these books, and of the people involved in translating them to film.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


silneldor
Half-elven


Feb 1 2011, 7:12pm

Post #156 of 246 (6864 views)
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So Flagg, then the anatomy would be basicly reversed [In reply to] Can't Post

from say, the anatomical design of the bat.. That would be fascinating. Mobility on the ground or in the cave would prove interesting but in the book ground mode movement was not mentioned as i remember. Taking off would be quite difficult thought.

''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III

May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo













fingolfin_nc
Bree


Feb 1 2011, 7:27pm

Post #157 of 246 (6848 views)
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You just keep thinking Butch...that's what you're good at. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
... and the rest of the world wears bifocals." Wink

HM


Quote

In particular i do have a bit of disdain for Hellmistresses' attempts to categorise anyone who expressed worry or cynicism of Guillermo's reported designs as somehow imaginatively stunted, aesthetically cowardly and overly conservative,




R11
Lorien

Feb 1 2011, 7:30pm

Post #158 of 246 (6874 views)
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This board is the best! [In reply to] Can't Post

For someone interested in human behavior it's always highly entertaining! Cool


ron


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 1 2011, 7:31pm

Post #159 of 246 (6841 views)
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Heated Discussions [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, this thread has been pretty heated... we all love this book with great passion, so the discussions are bound to be heated...we don't want this unique chance being wasted, but since everyone has a different view on what is wasted or not, we have discussions, agreement and disagreement, which is good, which is how it should be. Even if it was "too" heated some times I don't think it crossed any line. Critique must be allowed.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Feb 1 2011, 7:32pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2011, 7:32pm

Post #160 of 246 (6862 views)
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Mockery [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me be clear that I wasn't labelling all dissenting opinions as mockery – I was referring specifically to some posts which took aspects of Guillermo's artistic sensibilities, then exaggerated them into ridiculous caricatures, all while expressing relief that he was no longer involved in the production of The Hobbit. So far there are six or seven posts which do this, and two or three more which do it in a milder way. It wasn't funny the first time, let alone the tenth. There's just no need for that sort of talk.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 1 2011, 7:38pm

Post #161 of 246 (6837 views)
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It most certainly has crossed lines [In reply to] Can't Post

Those lines may have been edited out, or deleted, by now, but they were definitely crossed. The Admins don't threaten to lock a thread lightly.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Hellmistress
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:40pm

Post #162 of 246 (6796 views)
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Just for info ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin is indeed from the Völuspá. It is a Nordic name, and the basis of that name is the runic 'thorn'. It is associated with Thor, but in older times in Old Norse the runic 'thorn' was associated with the Thurs, or frost giants. Whether G was using that as a basis for this fun idea or not, I don't know, but to dismiss any association of 'thorns' with the name 'Thorin' doesn't really work. The first two letters of the name are exactly that, especially since the name came from the Völuspá in the first place.

Personally, I think Guillermo was just having a leg-pull. Wink

HM


In Reply To
Tolkien borrowed the name Thorin from the Voluspa, as he did with other dwarves like Durin. Check it up - GDT is way wrong by connecting Thorin with "thorns".



Bran
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:53pm

Post #163 of 246 (6780 views)
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That's fine, Flagg [In reply to] Can't Post

I certainly understand why it's sometimes best not to single out individual posts or posters when replying. All I wanted to do was to defend my position, and, of you like, differentiate it from those you say mock GDT.

I would have been highly critical, for example, if we had seen Arwen fighting at Helm's Deep. My hatred of that idea, however, would not have stretched to the filmmakers, who I will feel thankful towards for the rest of my life. Therein lies the distinction, imo.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:55pm

Post #164 of 246 (6774 views)
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Without questioning your knowledge, HM [In reply to] Can't Post

Do you have a link to that info? I am genuinely interested, and a brief search earlier was fruitless.

Cheers!

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Lindele
Gondor


Feb 1 2011, 7:56pm

Post #165 of 246 (6792 views)
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Can we please all just [In reply to] Can't Post

FIGHT!!!!!! FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


duats
Grey Havens

Feb 1 2011, 7:56pm

Post #166 of 246 (6777 views)
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I just want to remind everyone [In reply to] Can't Post

That Thorin's HELMET was depicted as having thorns/antlers, not Thorin himself.


Quote

In one sketch, the dwarf Thorin, depicted in battle, wore a surreal helmet that appeared to be sprouting antlers.



Anyway, I looked through my copy of The Hobbit, and here are some passages concerning Smaug:


Quote

Smaug lay, with wings folded like an immeasurable bat, turned party on one side, so that the hobbit could see his underparts and his long pale belly crusted with gems and fragments of gold from his long lying on his costly bed.



Quote

"He thrust his head in vain at the little hole, and then coiling his length together, roaring like thunder underground, he sped from his deep lair through its great door, out into huge passages of the mountain-palace and up towards the Front Gate."


Further evidence of a snake-like body - especially with the description of him "coiling his length."


Hellmistress
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 7:58pm

Post #167 of 246 (6774 views)
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I got it ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... from one of my reference books at home, but 'll see if I can dig up a link or two. Blame Tolkien - I learned about runes and their language back when I was 7 or so. Tolkiens' map in TH and his use of futharks had me fascinated. Not for me the allure of the pink Barbie Doll. It was dragons, goblins and futharks all the way!

HM


In Reply To
Do you have a link to that info? I am genuinely interested, and a brief search earlier was fruitless.

Cheers!



sphdle1
Gondor


Feb 1 2011, 8:04pm

Post #168 of 246 (6770 views)
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What color am I? [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping for a blue motif...as long as it doesn't make me seem too thorny!


silneldor
Half-elven


Feb 1 2011, 8:11pm

Post #169 of 246 (6761 views)
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*warms up Fred Sanford style*\\ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III

May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo













Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2011, 8:14pm

Post #170 of 246 (6753 views)
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Agree completely, Earl [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps he would be saddened by opinions, but there is nothing here that I have read thus far that is outright rude.

And, as an artist myself, I think that GdT is mature, and confident enough to be able to handle opposing opinions to his artistic visions. It is something almost all artists develop over the years- and those who do not are not as mature as they like to think they are. I do not think GdT is in that group; he strikes me as a man who handles both praise and critique with good grace.

Cheers.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 1 2011, 8:20pm

Post #171 of 246 (6798 views)
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Artists thrive on critique [In reply to] Can't Post

but usually it comes after they display their work, not before.

The writer might have been more careful with his words... because really, his (woefully dated) impressions are what we are talking about here.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Feb 1 2011, 8:22pm)


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2011, 8:20pm

Post #172 of 246 (6741 views)
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Yes, I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I *like* relatively faithful adaptations. I understand the transition of doing them in a different medium, or updating them for a certain audience, and heck, I can see why people want to change things. And everyone's interpretation is different.

But being faithful to the details that Tolkien wrote... and considering that slavish... is a bit chilling for any big Tolkien fan, I think. We are Tolkien fans for a reason, after all; many of us like those details.

I also don't buy the story of "Hobbit being a long journey where he learns he wants to be home". No, the Hobbit is a book about self-discovery; Bilbo revealed his true potential because of that journey. Of course, after a long trip he'd want to go home- I would too! But that does not mean that is the meaning or theme of the story, IMO.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2011, 8:23pm

Post #173 of 246 (6742 views)
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That is what I remember [In reply to] Can't Post

While I do not know what the name of Thorin's name means, though. Were they just made up names for the epic poem?

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Feb 1 2011, 8:27pm

Post #174 of 246 (6742 views)
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hugs to the admin's way [In reply to] Can't Post

And no envy over that particular job!

Surely people can debate about the arts and Tolkien in a polite way... :)

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Bran
Lorien


Feb 1 2011, 8:27pm

Post #175 of 246 (6718 views)
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Don't worry too much [In reply to] Can't Post

if you can't find it easily, HM. It's no problem.

Smile

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

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