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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Elijah Wood will be in 'The Hobbit'
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moreorless
Gondor

Jan 7 2011, 5:15pm

Post #101 of 379 (23485 views)
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What I thought from the start... [In reply to] Can't Post

As soon as the rumours of the film being made started to appear the Red Book being read as a framing device by an old Bilbo/Frodo/Sam was the first thing I thought of.

Looking to bring back LOTR characters is one way to look at it but another is as you say to allow for a more direct adaptation of the Hobbit with a marked change in tone from LOTR. By altering the presentation of the films you can also alter the audiences expectations, no longer are they seeing the direct gritter view of ME from LOTR but rather a single Hobbits perspective of it.


Mithrandír
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 5:22pm

Post #102 of 379 (21028 views)
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Great narrating [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Frodo being a kind of narrator in the start and perhaps one or two times during the plot, for instance changing the perspective to gandalvs part in the events taking place during bilbos adventure, the white council, the necromancer etc, will work really really well!

Imo it's keeping with Tolkien, it's necessary to link the hobbit film with the lotr, and this handle is as good as any other imo. PJ has said before that he views the hobbit and lotr as a continuous story in movie terms. anyway, if the frodo-news is true there is little point disagreeing, seeing as it's gonna happen anyway.

Social Science's biggest problem, is social science.



"The ring has awoken. It's heard its masters call"



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 5:22pm

Post #103 of 379 (23236 views)
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I think that statement was taken out of context. [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what Guillermo had to say on the subject back around the time when he first started posting here:

Quote
I have read Moorcock, Clark Ashton Smith, Lord Dunsany, Lloyd Alexander, Fritz Leiber and a few others. At the age of 11 I read THE HOBBIT and it enchanted me as only a classic Fairy Tale can- it had enough darkness and dread and emotion to make a profound impression that lasted me until now. Beorn, Mirkwood, the Wargs, Smaug, the Riddles in the Dark, they all have lived in me for many years...

Nevertheless at that early age, the rest of Tolkien proved to contain Geography and Genealogy too complex for my prepubescent brain...

[..]

As if he grasped an existing universe outside our Platonic cave, Tolkien channels an entire world, weaving expertly from myth and lore. The oustanding virtue is that all this scholarly erudition doesn't reduce his tales to mere Taxidermy. He achieves an Alchemy all of his own: he writes new life in the freshly sculpted clay of his creatures.

I have, through the years become familiar with the very roots of Tolkien's myths and the roots of Fafhrd or Elric or Hyperborea and many a time I have relished the intricate ways in which demonic wolves, shape-shifter and spindly-limbed pale warriors can be woven into those many tales that become, at the end, the single tale, the single saga- that of what is immortal in us all.

In creating Pan's Labyrinth I drank deep of the most rigid form of Fairy Lore and tried to contextualize the main recurrent motifs in an instinctive rhyme between the world of fantasy and the delusions of War and Politics (the grown man's way of playing make-believe) and in re-reading THE HOBBIT just recently I was quite moved by discovering, through Bilbo's eyes the illusory nature of possession, the sins of hoarding and the banality of war- whether in the Western Front or at a Valley in Middle Earth. Lonely is the mountain indeed.


http://newboards.theonering.net/...forum.cgi?post=92296

Reading him talk about Tolkien's work so enthusiastically makes me doubtful of that single statement he made in that interview several years ago, when he said that he hated hairy feet or something like that. To be honest, I'd be even more inclined to trust del Toro with Tolkien's work than I would be to trust Jackson.


xy
Rohan

Jan 7 2011, 5:22pm

Post #104 of 379 (23530 views)
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without even reading ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I was hoping for less LOTR reunions. First Legolas and now Frodo. Saruman would be the one logical choice, yet we got more Radagast evidently.

Was he even born at the time of the Hobbit ? He was 33 when Bilbo was having his 111th birthday, minus 60 years between LOTR and the Hobbit...


KingofAncients
The Shire


Jan 7 2011, 5:24pm

Post #105 of 379 (20795 views)
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Frank Langella as Saruman.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Flagg I have to admit that I didn't know who this "Frank Langella" you mentioned was, call me uncivilized or uncultured or whatever you like but, at any rate I decided to check him out on youtube.

WOW! I agree with you 100% if someone is going to replace the legendary Christopher Lee as Saruman I am now convinced it must be Frank Langella! Not only is his voice superb (and eerily similar to Lee's) but, he actually LOOKS like him too! That's craziness. You have made a believer of me, just throw Saruman prosthetics on him and we're good to hook for a more vibrant/active/less evil Saruman who helps kick Necromancer @$$ in these two films!

"Stout men and lordly they are, and the Riders of Rohan look almost as boys beside them; for they are grim men of face, worn like weathered rocks for the most part, even as Aragorn himself; and they are silent."


Mithrandír
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 5:24pm

Post #106 of 379 (37482 views)
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Hear hear! [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Social Science's biggest problem, is social science.



"The ring has awoken. It's heard its masters call"



Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 5:26pm

Post #107 of 379 (23743 views)
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No, he was nor born [In reply to] Can't Post

But as the post said... he would not be around at the time of Bilbo's adventure. Someone mentioned "Princess Bride", and while I doubt it will be exactly like Princess Bride, I can imagine it being something like that.

It would certainly fit the Hobbit's lighter tone, being told from the point of view of Bilbo with Frodo listening, substituting Tolkien's unnamed, fourth-wall-breaking narrative voice and the reader.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 5:32pm

Post #108 of 379 (22378 views)
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It wasn't my idea [In reply to] Can't Post

We've been talking about the possibility of Frank Langella playing Saruman for a good while now, and I sort of took it for granted that everyone would know who I was talking about. I think duats was the first one who came up with the idea, but I'm not completely certain.


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 5:35pm

Post #109 of 379 (21035 views)
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Langella [In reply to] Can't Post

Some months ago I thought no, absolutely not. But as I have sort of given up on the hopes of sir C reprising Saruman, this Langella fellow looks like an OK replacement. It will never be as good as the original, but it should work.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 5:37pm

Post #110 of 379 (23132 views)
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Lindele [In reply to] Can't Post

I think both you and RosieLass has fair points.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Bran
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 5:39pm

Post #111 of 379 (22097 views)
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Financial gain first? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sorry, I don't see that at all.

Clearly the films have to make money, there's no question about that. The studios would not bother were that not the case.

Watching all the appendices on the EE editions many times, though, there are few, if any people involved in making those films who I feel were putting financial gain first. The overriding impression I get from everyone, from the writers, art design, WETA, music, actors, everyone, was the love of the project, and of Tolkien.

The Hobbit and LOTR are inextricably linked. Not just in the ring, Gollum, Gandalf and so on, but the White council, and even the importance of Smaug not becoming a weapon for Sauron, these and many other events tie the two books, and the two sets of films together.

It would have been wonderful if Jackson could have made the Hobbit and then gone on to LOTR. He didn't, but I see no problem in him in tweaking things slightly to make the progression from one set of films to the other a little easier, as if he had done that.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 5:42pm

Post #112 of 379 (23900 views)
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Agree with duats... [In reply to] Can't Post

This just seems like a bad move to cash-in on the success of the original trilogy, (a lot like how Christopher Nolan's third Batman will now be called "The Dark Knight Rises"), for obvious reasons. Very disappointed with this news...

Samuel L. Jackson for Bilbo, Woody Allen for Thorin, Lewis Black for Bard and Gilbert Gottfried for Smaug!

MAKE IT HAPPEN, PETER!!!


Bran
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 5:47pm

Post #113 of 379 (22070 views)
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Red Book reading [In reply to] Can't Post

Flagg, there is no reason why Frodo could not be reading the Red book prior to the events of LOTR, is there? He could even be reading an early version of the book, before Bilbo adds the finishing touches?

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


Bran
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 5:50pm

Post #114 of 379 (38908 views)
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Lee as Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

Some way of including Chris Lee is my biggest hope, assuming McKellan and Serkis join, naturally.

I suspect Lee might be amenable if some blue screen work could be done. He is a huge Tolkien fan, and I think adding to his body of work as the Definitive Saruman might appeal to him.

Fingers crossed!

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 5:52pm

Post #115 of 379 (23272 views)
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As good a way as any [In reply to] Can't Post

While i'm not enamoured with the idea of framing The Hobbit within the strict bounds of the existing Lord of the Rings films, which i would have preferred them to build up to on their own terms- consistent with and exploring events within the timeline only revealed in the latter book but nevertheless standing well enough alone, the 'let me tell you a story' format has always been on the cards and to be fair will likely work well enough. It's also a far better way of featuring LotR cast cameos than compressing the timeline by half a century (that said, given the existing compression i consider it entirely possible to show Aragorn and Arwen's first meeting within the narrative of the Hobbit).

So yeah, basically i'm non-plussed about it all. If that turned out to be the film's biggest sin then we could all breathe a sign of relief.

Dr Death


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jan 7 2011, 5:59pm

Post #116 of 379 (22713 views)
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No conclusive reason. [In reply to] Can't Post

I got the impression that the bookend scenes would be set towards the end of Return of the King, around the scene where Frodo is writing in the Red Book in his study in Bag End. The earlier they set the scene, the harder it will be to make Elijah Wood look the right age. I suppose they could set the scenes before Lord of the Rings if they really wanted to, but for the purposes of my speculations I assumed that the scenes would be after Frodo's quest.


Daeorn Aldalómë
Bree


Jan 7 2011, 6:01pm

Post #117 of 379 (21720 views)
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I like it!! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
So I just had a thought of how they could do the Hobbit-to-LOTR transition. At the beginning of the first Hobbit movie a young Frodo (Elijah looks perpetually young so he'll be fine) sneaks "the Red Book" out of Bilbo's study and starts reading it bringing us into the world of The Hobbit adventure. Maybe we see Frodo reading it a few more times between then and the end of the 2nd movie. But the end of the second movie should come out of "The Hobbit" story to show Frodo finishing reading The Hobbit in the Red Book while sitting under a tree, effectively ending his narraration - and the camera pans out and Frodo hears Gandalf's singing - and we realize that the famous opening shot of Fellowship of Frodo reading under a tree was actually him reading The Hobbit?

Wow! Great idea! I think that could work! Man, I'm excited!

Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.


Bran
Lorien

Jan 7 2011, 6:06pm

Post #118 of 379 (22555 views)
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No probs [In reply to] Can't Post

It just seems to me that Frodo reading that book could theoretically occur anytime between Bilbo adopting him and the Grey Havens, although clearly Frodo is too young for Wood to play him at the start of that time.

A mechanism that could be used, were the timeframe for the reading to be set, say 15 years before FOTR, might allow us to see other events we know happened, and the brief introduction of other characters or story fills. That sort of thing really would not surprise me.

Mawr yw ein braint i berthyn i'r gwm Llynfi

(This post was edited by Bran on Jan 7 2011, 6:07pm)


LoremIpsum
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 6:09pm

Post #119 of 379 (22277 views)
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Great news if true [In reply to] Can't Post

I have no problem with this at all, especially if we get to see Ian Holm in there too (hopefully)HeartEvil


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 6:11pm

Post #120 of 379 (21859 views)
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Not so much positive or negative, [In reply to] Can't Post

to me at least, most comments seem sideways or neutral around here. With every bit of confirmed news -- regardless of what may have been said when an item was just rumoured -- the general consensus defaults to "we trust the film makers/writers." Again to me, this indicates that most everyone here does in fact want these films to be made. (One might add, "at any cost" but that is an over simplification of our collective true feelings on the matter. A fandom we are and a fandom we shall remain.)

For instance, the idea that the films would be structured as if read from a book (Bilbo's book) was first floated here when the bridge film concept was still on the table. IIRC Guillermo himself participated in a thread where that was being discussed (though hovering at the edge of actually spilling the beans, as was his way). At the time there seemed to be general agreement that this was an acceptable, if not desirable, approach to bringing in some characters from LOTR that are not mentioned (which is not the same as did not exist) in The Hobbit and/or the period between the two tales.

As for the joking around that goes on here (such as my recent comment: "Itaril of the Ewok Realm"), for the most part, it is not intended to be negative. It is a way of celebrating our shared interests.

edit: to break up post


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 7 2011, 6:16pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jan 7 2011, 6:18pm

Post #121 of 379 (21480 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

but not simply because of the age issue...

The period between Frodo and co's return to the Shire and Frodo's departure to Valinor (about 4 years at the end of ROTK) seems the most likely place for the Red Book of the Westmarch to be visited; a time when Frodo would be writing about his adventures, at times reading what Bilbo wrote, and at times connecting the dots between the two tales and filling in the gaps.

Alternately they might go beyond that time and incorporate what Sam wrote and of (correct me if I'm wrong) Aragorn's death and Legolas and Gimli's departure for Valinor. Of the two approaches I favour the first, even more so than the idea of Bilbo spinning his tale of "The Hobbit" in a time just before LOTR, or at Rivendell.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jan 7 2011, 6:22pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jan 7 2011, 6:25pm

Post #122 of 379 (22087 views)
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Sorry. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just tetchy about it.

The TORN boards are great, but there was a time back during the years the LOTR films were being made and released when I stopped visiting for a long time because there was a loudmouthed minority who made it very clear that any dissenting opinion was unwelcome, and I got tired of being told to shut up and go away any time I expressed any disappointment over anything Peter Jackson did.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Jettorex
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 6:30pm

Post #123 of 379 (23544 views)
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What happens to.... [In reply to] Can't Post

"In a hole in the ground there lived a Hobbit" beginning to the Hobbit Movie? Is that off the table now? or will Frodo now say these words?

I always thought that it would be a great way to start the movie, just like the book.


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."





Daeorn Aldalómë
Bree


Jan 7 2011, 6:34pm

Post #124 of 379 (21378 views)
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Especially since... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the whole series ends with Sam's "Well, I'm back."



The Party Tree
Lorien


Jan 7 2011, 6:38pm

Post #125 of 379 (55933 views)
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I knew as soon as they started announcing cameos that I'd get addicted.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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