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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Is the Hobbit trying to be Avatar?
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Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 7:01pm

Post #26 of 202 (520 views)
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which is basically [In reply to] Can't Post

Dances with Wolves

we like to pick on Avatar, but sometimes we forget that it's not there are other unoriginal plot lines


The wide world is all about you:
you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out

You can only come to the morning through the shadows


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Oct 16 2010, 7:03pm

Post #27 of 202 (510 views)
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The last one applies to Avatar [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 7:03pm

Post #28 of 202 (550 views)
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yeah, I don't know where you guys are [In reply to] Can't Post

but I was just talking to Elrond a minute ago ... wait, my post count says I'm in Gondor ... I mean I was just talking to Ioreth Tongue


The wide world is all about you:
you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out

You can only come to the morning through the shadows


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 7:07pm

Post #29 of 202 (508 views)
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I'm not saying one way or another [In reply to] Can't Post

there's a reason I didn't include movies titles in my post Wink

I'm not sure where I am on the issue of the originality of Avatar
some parts were quite original, some, well, not so much


The wide world is all about you:
you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out

You can only come to the morning through the shadows


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 7:19pm

Post #30 of 202 (512 views)
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But where did all of those absolutely unoriginal ideas come from? [In reply to] Can't Post

They had to start somewhere..

Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 7:21pm

Post #31 of 202 (511 views)
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Early myths and legends I suppose? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 7:24pm

Post #32 of 202 (500 views)
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yes they did [In reply to] Can't Post

it was a hyperbole

(and not one like x^2 - y^2 = 1 Tongue )


The wide world is all about you:
you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot for ever fence it out

You can only come to the morning through the shadows


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 7:27pm

Post #33 of 202 (552 views)
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It the combination of ideas [In reply to] Can't Post

or the recombination or unique manipulation of ideas that builds originality. Some writers & film makers and other artists are just better at it than others.

Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


R11
Lorien

Oct 16 2010, 8:36pm

Post #34 of 202 (530 views)
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You know how it is [In reply to] Can't Post

There's a significant portion of the population that always expects the worst no matter what. Whether it's born of ignorance, (not stupidity, but simply being under informed), paranoia or just general negativity, the sky is always falling for them. Peter Jackson has shown himself to be a highly intelligent, thoughtful film maker. I have no doubt that he understands the ramifications involved with bringing The Hobbit to the big screen and wouldn't compromise anything that would weaken his end result for all movie goers. I'm quite sure viewers will find the movies to be heart warming, exciting, immersive and engaging in all aspects, whether they see them in 2D or 3D.

I have never really doubted this whole process would come to fruition sooner or later. But I have to say that I'm extremely happy the stage is now set for them to hit the ground running so everyone will finally be able to see The Hobbit, in a way that is truly worthy of it's source, on screen as soon as possible! I expect the movies will be outstanding and highly satisfying for all but the most critical or cynical.


ron


acheron
Gondor


Oct 16 2010, 9:01pm

Post #35 of 202 (499 views)
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While I want to trust PJ, I trusted George Lucas before The Phantom Menace, too. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on -- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 9:06pm

Post #36 of 202 (478 views)
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Star Wars Episodes IV–VI weren't written with Episodes I–III in mind [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings *was* written with The Hobbit in mind.


Zizix
Rivendell


Oct 16 2010, 9:08pm

Post #37 of 202 (474 views)
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? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see the OP complaining about the amount of special effects. I don't see anybody saying the movies will suck because of the 3D. Just that it might/will not be as good as it would have been without it. And I find it ridiculous to suggest that people who expressed their dislike for something are just "too negative".


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 9:13pm

Post #38 of 202 (486 views)
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You don't have to trust PJ - trust Tolkien [In reply to] Can't Post

Lucas actually had to write the prequels.

Besides it's hardly fair to transfer Lucas's mistakes to anyone else.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 9:17pm

Post #39 of 202 (463 views)
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I have read that the entire saga was outlined before IV was shot.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Zizix
Rivendell


Oct 16 2010, 9:25pm

Post #40 of 202 (457 views)
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I have heard conflicting stories [In reply to] Can't Post

about whether the prequels were supposed to be made from the start or not.

The good point acheron makes though, is that pretty much every filmmaker (any artist) sooner or later makes something that is inferior to their other work or even stinks. I do not expect this to happen with PJ and The Hobbit, but PJ isn't a 100% assurance the movies will be terrific.


R11
Lorien

Oct 16 2010, 9:35pm

Post #41 of 202 (462 views)
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I suggest [In reply to] Can't Post

You reread my post because your reply doesn't seem to really reflect on what I said at all... I never said a thing about special effects. My whole post was about people worrying for no reason and simply suggested a number of different possible causes, general negativity being one, that may cause them to do it. If you just want to be mad at me for no reason though that's cool too Cool


ron


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 16 2010, 9:49pm

Post #42 of 202 (478 views)
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Actually I know the real deal on this one [In reply to] Can't Post

Lucas wrote a very broad outline for the whole story and then picked the part that he though was most exciting and made it into the first Star Wars. The story constantly evolved even during that process. So when he said later than he had the prequels in mind - he did - but only in a very broad outline sense - nothing like an actual story or script. And when I say broad outline I'm being charitable. Very very rough idea is an even better description.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 9:53pm

Post #43 of 202 (454 views)
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We will certainly see.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Zizix
Rivendell


Oct 16 2010, 10:20pm

Post #44 of 202 (440 views)
Shortcut
Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You reread my post because your reply doesn't seem to really reflect on what I said at all... I never said a thing about special effects. My whole post was about people worrying for no reason and simply suggested a number of different possible causes, general negativity being one, that may cause them to do it. If you just want to be mad at me for no reason though that's cool too Cool


ron


My post was a response to a more general overreaction to people expressing dislike, only my last line referred specifically to you.


Ruijor
Rohan


Oct 16 2010, 11:33pm

Post #45 of 202 (424 views)
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Comparing The Hobbit with Avatar... [In reply to] Can't Post

... is like comparing Tolkien with JK Rowling imo...


tumhalad
Bree


Oct 16 2010, 11:34pm

Post #46 of 202 (491 views)
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Rudeness [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There's a significant portion of the population that always expects the worst no matter what. Whether it's born of ignorance, (not stupidity, but simply being under informed), paranoia or just general negativity, the sky is always falling for them. Peter Jackson has shown himself to be a highly intelligent, thoughtful film maker. I have no doubt that he understands the ramifications involved with bringing The Hobbit to the big screen and wouldn't compromise anything that would weaken his end result for all movie goers. I'm quite sure viewers will find the movies to be heart warming, exciting, immersive and engaging in all aspects, whether they see them in 2D or 3D.

I have never really doubted this whole process would come to fruition sooner or later. But I have to say that I'm extremely happy the stage is now set for them to hit the ground running so everyone will finally be able to see The Hobbit, in a way that is truly worthy of it's source, on screen as soon as possible! I expect the movies will be outstanding and highly satisfying for all but the most critical or cynical.


ron

That's incredibly disingenous. There are quite a few LOTR fans (maybe not so many on these boards) who think quite the opposite about Peter Jackson - that he in untalented, unthoughtful precisely does not understand the "ramifications" involved with "bringing the Hobbit to the big screen", and made many unecessary compromises. People are allowed to think this, and usually "purist" positions are not "born of ignorance" - quite the opposite in fact. Most purists are lifelong fans of the books, people who are familiar enough with the books to know the glaring hack job the movie made of them.

Having said that, I'm looking forward to this, and I'm quite excited.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 11:53pm

Post #47 of 202 (422 views)
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I sense an internal contradiction in your reply.. [In reply to] Can't Post

The movies aren't the books, nor could they be. There is room enough in the world for both. Just think of the movies as a new telling of an old myth. This is from a lifelong fan of the books who has found a way to reconcile the differences.


Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 16 2010, 11:57pm

Post #48 of 202 (400 views)
Shortcut
and? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can compare and contrast. There are obviously differences but there are similarities.

Kangi Ska Resident Cynic

The Hobbit is here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


verityfate
The Shire


Oct 17 2010, 12:00am

Post #49 of 202 (417 views)
Shortcut
meh... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd say its like comparing Tolkien to Twilight, to be honest. Say what you will about how good it was, but HP was at the very least creative.

well, green has always been my favourite colour...;)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Oct 17 2010, 12:09am

Post #50 of 202 (399 views)
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You think Jackson is 'untalented'? Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's see... his adaptation of The Lord of the Rings included over twelve hours' worth of material, earned almost three billion dollars worldwide, won so many prestigious awards that I can't even list them and was praised by the vast majority of both critics and Tolkien fans as one of, if not the best film trilogy of all time.

Don't you think your belief that he is 'untalented' might be slightly influenced by your rejection of any adaptation which is not 100% identical to the books?

Do you really believe that the tiny minority of hardcore purists are right and everyone else on the face of the planet is wrong? Peter Jackson is fantastic.

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