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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Media Release: Peter Jackson Speaks Actor Boycott of “The Hobbit” (From the Home Page)

Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 30 2010, 3:07pm

Post #1 of 79 (2552 views)
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Media Release: Peter Jackson Speaks Actor Boycott of “The Hobbit” (From the Home Page) Can't Post

WELLINGTON – Friday, 1 October 2010 An Australian trade union, the MEAA, has generated a world wide actor boycott on The Hobbit, to bolster their demand that producers on the film enter into collective bargaining with the NZ Equity/MEAA. The MEAA has now admitted that their collective bargaining proposal is in fact, illegal, under New Zealand law. In Sir Peter Jackson’s opinion “The Hobbit is being punished with a boycott which is endangering thousands of NZ jobs and hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign income, for no good reason.”

The attack on The Hobbit by NZ Actors Equity and the MEAA has resulted in a very public dispute, between NZ Equity and the producers of The Hobbit. The actors are claiming they are underpaid and do not enjoy the same working conditons as their overseas counterparts. This accusation that has been levelled specifically at The Hobbit, but Sir Peter Jackson says it has no basis in fact.

“The MEAA’s campaign against The Hobbit has nothing to do with the way Wingnut Films has treated actors and everything to do with using The Hobbit to bring publicity to the MEAA’s cause” said Sir Peter. “They do not seem to care about the damage they have done to our film or for that matter, to the New Zealand film industry in general. This is about nothing more than leveraging our movie for politcal gain.”

After days of explanation and legal opinions, including one from the Crown Law Office, Jennifer Ward-Lealand of NZ Equity has admitted that the MEAA’s demands to enter into collective bargaining are in fact illegal. The producers of The Hobbit say that their refusal to enter into illegal negotiations with the MEAA is the reason the film is blacklisted worldwide. “I have been waiting to hear some kind of explanation for the needless damage NZ Equity/MEAA has done to our film, but nothing has been forthcoming. While the MEAA has admitted their blacklisting of The Hobbit has no legal foundation, they have done nothing to remove the ban on the film. “I am amazed that hundreds of millions of dollars of potential income for New Zealand, has been put at risk by a tiny group people who did not even bother to do their legal homework.”

Sir Peter goes on to say: “This situation is bordering on farce because The Hobbit has been falsely accused of being a “non-union” production – by NZ Equity, who themselves have been struck off the register of Incorporated Societies, having lost their union status. It would be laughable, if there weren’t so much at stake. But there is nothing funny about people losing their jobs and the crippling effect that losing The Hobbit is going to have on our film industry” said Sir Peter.

Sir Peter felt compelled to respond to the mounting criticism in the press that his films pay actors low wages. “For years our company WingNut Films has hired actors on terms and conditions that are among the best and most generous in New Zealand. We have always treated cast and crew with kindness and respect, because it is the right thing to do, not because it is enshrined in an industry code of practice. I am a firm supporter of unions but when a tiny minority is empowered to endanger the livelihoods of so many people, something is very wrong.”

In New Zealand, Actors rates are based on the length of a film shoot, the size and prominence of a role, the actor’s level of experience, the actor’s name recognition and the actor’s past fee – among other things. These are all variables in determining individual pay rates and contract negotiations.

Sir Peter says that over the last 10 years, the fees NZ actors have earned on WingNut Films productions have been “consistently fair and generous”. “If an NZ actor is contracted to appear for ‘run of picture’ in a small supporting role, they would attract at a fee of around NZ $5000 per week. Looking at the current published rates of the Screen Actor’s Guild of America (which is the gold standard to which NZ Equity aspires), the SAG weekly minimum for the same role and time commitment is NZ $3,800 per week. Therefore Wingnut Films pays NZ actors approx $1,200 per week more than his (or her) US counterpart.”

Sir Peter says that ten years ago, in 1999, he asked New Line to cast Karl Urban in the role of Eomer in The Lord of the Rings. “The studio were insisting we cast a US actor in the role, but I went into bat for Karl – who had no marquee value in the US market at that time,- because I believed he was the best person for the role. Back then, we would typically pay an actor in a role of that size $1600 a day or $10,000 per week. Again, this rate is higher than the SAG minimum.”

NZ Actors, who do not belong to SAG, have never had any profit participation, or residuals, as they are called in the industry. However, Sir Peter says that Warner Brothers has agreed to provide a pot of money for NZ actors to share from the proceeds of the two Hobbit films. “This pot of money is not reliant on the film earning a profit, it comes from box office income, regardless of how well the films perform.”
Sir Peter maintains the residuals on The Hobbit will be worth ‘very real money’ to the Kiwi actors who are cast in the film.

“This is the first time ever NZ actors have had residuals, and we are proud that it’s being introduced on our movie. The level of residuals is better than a similar scheme in Canada, and is much the same as the UK residual scheme. It is not quite as much as the SAG rate.”

Sir Peter dismisses the suggestion that The Hobbit is moving to Eastern Europe because it is cheaper to make films over there. “People are claiming this is the reason the film is moving off shore. It’s completely absurd! Eastern Europe is only being considered because a minority group of the NZ acting community have invoked union action that has blacklisted our film, making it impossible to shoot in New Zealand. It is not an issue in any other country.”

Eastern Europe is one of six locales that Warners are currently investigating as alternative bases to set up the production. “Nobody wants to take The Hobbit off shore, but every day we are blacklisted costs Warners money and the studio is now moving to protect it’s investment.” said Sir Peter.

“It is very naive to think that we have much say in what happens from this point on. Warners gave us an opportunity to set the film up in New Zealand and we have been unable to do that successfully. Warners are cash flowing these films to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars and they will now decide how, and eventually where, this money is spent.”

Sir Peter goes on to say “In a television interview our friend, Bruce Hopkins, (who appeared as Gamling in the Lord of the Rings Trilogy) said that he failed to understand why myself and SPADA would not even meet with NZ Equity when he considered it possible to come to an agreement that was acceptable to all.” Sir Peter says SPADA has been trying to meet with the NZ Equity/MEAA for over 18 months and every invitation to meet to discuss actor’s contracts has been rebuffed by the union “for various reasons.” Sir Peter goes on to say “Bruce is right, that meeting needs to happen, it is the only logical way to solve this dispute. SPADA represents the film producers of New Zealand and is this is only organisation in the country who can negotiate actor’s terms and conditions with NZ Equity.”

“The MEAA needs to stop playing games and to sit down at the negotiating table with SPADA. This needs to be resolved and quickly for everyone’s sake.”


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

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(This post was edited by Altaira on Sep 30 2010, 4:41pm)


sphdle1
Gondor


Sep 30 2010, 3:20pm

Post #2 of 79 (1442 views)
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In Summary SPADA must meet with MEAA...timing is critical! [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 3:27pm

Post #3 of 79 (1451 views)
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PJ has also responded to the actors who are taking sides publicly [In reply to] Can't Post

and he's releasing details about pay.

Karl Urban is of course entitled to his opinion. But that dude has nothing but benefited from PJ and the LOTR production. I would like to see him give PJ a bit more of the benefit of the doubt in this. *waves magic wand*

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 3:52pm

Post #4 of 79 (1439 views)
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With no disrespect [In reply to] Can't Post

It is only natural that Jackson should present his side of things in the best possible light. But it is disingenuous to compare specific deals given the non-union actors in LotR to the Screen Actors Guild's "minimum" rates for union acting within SAG's jurisdiction. SAG like all artist unions sees its roll as setting irreducible minimums in its contracts, to protect its least influential members. But it can not and does not ignore the essentially free-lance nature of acting. In fact in any venue different actors will be paid differently not just on the basis of their roles and the film's budget, but on the basis of what the actor will, by reputation and known talent, bring to the film. A minimum is just that; most actors of any quality and experience get more; and there is no way to say what the LotR actors, whether principals or supporting actors, known and unknown, would have gotten under an SAG contract had there been one in force in New Zealand at that time. The same goes in spades for his current budget for talent for The Hobbit, and that uncertainty is what is fueling his anger here.

Jackson more and more sounds to me like a common phenomenon in labor history: the boss who treats his workers right, according to his conscience and humanity, and deeply resents being classed as an exploiter by union organizers who appear unsolicited in his shop. The organizers, in turn, may even acknowledge the boss's individual efforts, but insist that if they don't unionize the single biggest employer in town, they will never be able to protect their members from those far more prevalent bosses who are less ... interested in the long-term welfare of their labor force.

Again, I realize the fondness most here have for Mr. Jackson, and I too admire him in many ways. I do not see these clumsy-seeming unions as heroes or villains, any more than I do Jackson. But this is not really about him. Because of who he is in New Zealand he is just now at the media center of a much bigger story about the future of feature film-making worldwide.



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macfalk
Valinor


Sep 30 2010, 4:18pm

Post #5 of 79 (1418 views)
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Okay, hands down, here we have it - the real and only reason for the delays of greenlighting: [In reply to] Can't Post

"SPADA would not even meet with NZ Equity when he considered it possible to come to an agreement that was acceptable to all.” Sir Peter says SPADA has been trying to meet with the NZ Equity/MEAA for over 18 months and every invitation to meet to discuss actor’s contracts has been rebuffed by the union “for various reasons."

Crystal clear.



Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 4:22pm

Post #6 of 79 (1348 views)
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I respect your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

But if this claim PJ makes that for 18 months SPADA has been reaching out to the union - then this move is even more dirtbag-ish. Ya know what I mean? It may not be true though.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


phredegar
Bree

Sep 30 2010, 4:24pm

Post #7 of 79 (1338 views)
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Dumbo [In reply to] Can't Post

Wouldn't it be nice - or maybe apposite - if some reference were made to these troubles in The Hobbit movie. I'm reminded of Walt Disney combating with union delays which is lampooned (if you look carefully) in the delayed movie, Dumbo, itself. Shades of Oliphaunts...

...sorry had to lighten the mood - this Union business is all very dark and miserable...


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 4:27pm

Post #8 of 79 (1347 views)
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Yes we finally know what the "politics" that GdT referred is // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Junesong
Rivendell

Sep 30 2010, 4:29pm

Post #9 of 79 (1343 views)
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Public makes Pressure makes Progress? [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether or not this has been going on for 18 months maybe the fact that it's public and loud now will make a difference? We're angry - and I live in Canada with no stake in the project beyond having saved two movie sized slots on my shelf for the inevitable Hobbit films. So maybe if every step of this process is public it will make things go by quicker?

"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer."


Eruonen
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 4:29pm

Post #10 of 79 (1320 views)
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So what are the next steps? [In reply to] Can't Post

What will break the log jam? How is this resolved?

I don't expect anything to happen until the MGM mess is cleared up and then formally the issue will be addressed.
IF that takes place this month...now October (time flies)...things may be sorted out in time for Jan...unless the bean counters pull the plug on NZ (doubt it).


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 30 2010, 4:38pm

Post #11 of 79 (1320 views)
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Remember what Bilbo used to say. No, but, remember what New Line said: [In reply to] Can't Post

"MGM situation has nothing to do with the fate of The Hobbit"

It appears clear that NL has some sort of clauses which I wont stretch myself any further on, Voronwe and K.Thompson knows a lot more about that than I do. No, this is the real reason to why they cannot green light the movie - simply because of the huge deal of not being able to sign actors!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 4:51pm

Post #12 of 79 (1319 views)
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SPADA will meet with New Zealand Actors Equity [In reply to] Can't Post

this is a New Zealand issue not Australian.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Lark
The Shire


Sep 30 2010, 5:00pm

Post #13 of 79 (1307 views)
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So pleased [In reply to] Can't Post

I am REALLY pleased to see those figures in this statement about how NZ actors are paid by Wingnut. I take back any jaded assumptions I made that they were not paid well, and am actually floored and amazed. Hope the ban is lifted soon.


Hellmistress
Lorien


Sep 30 2010, 5:07pm

Post #14 of 79 (1325 views)
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But ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... they do not get residuals, which is often the bread and butter of a contract. The $1,000 or so that they get paid more than the SAG minimum is nothing to what they might get in residuals, which are part of a regular contract in the US, Canada, the UK and Australia, as far as I'm aware.

HM


In Reply To
I am REALLY pleased to see those figures in this statement about how NZ actors are paid by Wingnut. I take back any jaded assumptions I made that they were not paid well, and am actually floored and amazed. Hope the ban is lifted soon.



Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 5:23pm

Post #15 of 79 (1280 views)
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His statement mentions residuals [In reply to] Can't Post

From the above statement:

NZ Actors, who do not belong to SAG, have never had any profit participation, or residuals, as they are called in the industry. However, Sir Peter says that Warner Brothers has agreed to provide a pot of money for NZ actors to share from the proceeds of the two Hobbit films. “This pot of money is not reliant on the film earning a profit, it comes from box office income, regardless of how well the films perform.”

Sir Peter maintains the residuals on The Hobbit will be worth ‘very real money’ to the Kiwi actors who are cast in the film.

“This is the first time ever NZ actors have had residuals, and we are proud that it’s being introduced on our movie. The level of residuals is better than a similar scheme in Canada, and is much the same as the UK residual scheme. It is not quite as much as the SAG rate.”


So I guess they do get residuals.


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Lark
The Shire


Sep 30 2010, 6:24pm

Post #16 of 79 (1229 views)
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yes but [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, but for non union actors, it is still a good deal. (Speaking as a Canadian here) if they wanted to,they could be paying them much less. I think they are setting a great example.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Sep 30 2010, 6:54pm

Post #17 of 79 (1307 views)
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TVNZ has a new article [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
"We will take our collective views of our Auckland and Wellington members to our national performers committee next week to decide on the next step."


TVNZ Link

Photobucket

Pre-Pre-production goes ever on and on...


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 7:03pm

Post #18 of 79 (1242 views)
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Flabbergasted [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit's producers contacted the MEAA and Actors Equity yesterday morning with an offer to attend the Wellington meeting in the hope of finding a solution to the dispute. After sending several requests asking for a response, the producers were finally told "no" shortly before the meeting started.

Wait ... what? Wasn't this EXACTLY what they (the union) was asking for?


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Doriath
Rivendell


Sep 30 2010, 7:04pm

Post #19 of 79 (1242 views)
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Will the union really want..... [In reply to] Can't Post

to create a worldwide army of people who hate their guts for doing this?

The Trees will have their revenge!


duats
Grey Havens

Sep 30 2010, 7:19pm

Post #20 of 79 (1193 views)
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A great big LOL [In reply to] Can't Post

So let me get this straight.

Several days after the fact, the NZ Actors Equity and MEAA admit that their proposal has no legal standing - demonstrating their inability to do even the most basic homework. So now they look like those guys who make groundless accusations and risky moves without having the facts straight. .

At the same time, when the producers of The Hobbit offer to meet with them, which is what the unions wanted from the get-go, they are told "no."

Have to say, these unions continue to make proper idiots out of themselves. Jackson is absolutely right. The way that this situation is being handled is nothing short of laughable. I called them irresponsible and unprofessional. Add stubborn to the list.


Hellmistress
Lorien


Sep 30 2010, 7:24pm

Post #21 of 79 (1204 views)
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I'm not talking about ... [In reply to] Can't Post

.. THE HOBBIT - in general, NZ actors do NOT get residuals as a norm contractually, as I said before. Whatever PJ and Warner Bros offer as a one-time thing, it isn't a NZ actor's right to get residuals, as it is elsewhere. Just because they may get them as a single offer on TH, it doesn't guarantee residuals for ALL, which is what all of this is about. It's not about short-term gain for a few actors - it's about long term gain for EVERY NZ actor. And let's face it, if they were kicking up a stink about this on any other film than THE HOBBIT, I'm pretty sure the majority of the anti-union chat on this board wouldn't exist.

HM



In Reply To
From the above statement:

NZ Actors, who do not belong to SAG, have never had any profit participation, or residuals, as they are called in the industry. However, Sir Peter says that Warner Brothers has agreed to provide a pot of money for NZ actors to share from the proceeds of the two Hobbit films. “This pot of money is not reliant on the film earning a profit, it comes from box office income, regardless of how well the films perform.”

Sir Peter maintains the residuals on The Hobbit will be worth ‘very real money’ to the Kiwi actors who are cast in the film.

“This is the first time ever NZ actors have had residuals, and we are proud that it’s being introduced on our movie. The level of residuals is better than a similar scheme in Canada, and is much the same as the UK residual scheme. It is not quite as much as the SAG rate.”


So I guess they do get residuals.



duats
Grey Havens

Sep 30 2010, 7:31pm

Post #22 of 79 (1170 views)
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I'm not criticizing their goals [In reply to] Can't Post

On the contrary. What these unions are fighting for is a good cause.

It's how they've gone about obtaining it that is sparking my criticisms. Sloppy, misinformed, and cynical.


Doriath
Rivendell


Sep 30 2010, 7:47pm

Post #23 of 79 (1140 views)
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Right [In reply to] Can't Post

For the record, I'm not anti union and my work is union work. It's one of the reasons I chose the job. I live in Washington state where they can fire you at will if it's a non union job. I wanted more security in a job. There can be downsides to unions and I've seen it. People can fairly easily be slackers on the job while the rest of us work our butts off and it's hard to get rid of those employees sometimes. I totally agree however that in this case these guys are going about things all wrong. Way wrong. I don't think everyone and everything needs to be held hostage to get their agenda out there.

The Trees will have their revenge!


Lark
The Shire


Sep 30 2010, 7:50pm

Post #24 of 79 (1132 views)
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I agree with you Hellmistress [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the fact that there is SOMETHING happening for NZ actors, it's not everything but maybe this is the beginning of something? I hope so. I agree with you though, I do hope something gets worked out in the long term.


Zizix
Rivendell


Sep 30 2010, 7:55pm

Post #25 of 79 (1131 views)
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What I don't get [In reply to] Can't Post

No one has been cast for the Hobbit movies, right? No actors can be offerend any contracts until the movies are greenlit.


Quote

The actors are claiming they are underpaid and do not enjoy the same working conditons as their overseas counterparts. This accusation that has been levelled specifically at The Hobbit, but Sir Peter Jackson says it has no basis in fact.


So how exactly does them being underpaid and not enjoying good enough working conditions, have anything to do with The Hobbit? They just think that that might happen once contracts are being signed.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 30 2010, 8:13pm

Post #26 of 79 (630 views)
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It's understandable. [In reply to] Can't Post

A union would want communications to be between its executive and a business's CEO, rather than have the CEO talk directly with union members and possibily pressure those workers even indirectly into agreeing to a certain line.

Which is not to say PJ would do that. But the principle is understandable.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


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macfalk
Valinor


Sep 30 2010, 8:20pm

Post #27 of 79 (588 views)
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Maybe, but what they are doing is out of hand. To answer "no" right when the meeting just has started tells something about their style.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 8:47pm

Post #28 of 79 (587 views)
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Move a foregone conclusion? [In reply to] Can't Post

The way this paragraph is worded, to me anyway, sounds like the decision to move has already been taken:


Quote

Sir Peter dismisses the suggestion that The Hobbit is moving to Eastern Europe because it is cheaper to make films over there. “People are claiming this is the reason the film is moving off shore. It’s completely absurd! Eastern Europe is only being considered because a minority group of the NZ acting community have invoked union action that has blacklisted our film, making it impossible to shoot in New Zealand. It is not an issue in any other country.” -emphasis added



What is absurd is the idea that a production of this size can just pack up and move at a moment's notice without taking a major hit on the expense side. This sort of decision would take months to plan to be cost effective. How long has moving been a consideration? If it has been under consideration for sometime, what are the reasons? What about the work that has already been done in NZ, the infrastructure, the knowledge and project specific skills -- some of which have already been paid for -- that will be left behind? Are they simply counted as a loss against future earnings with no value beyond numbers in a ledger?

The other thing, when Sir Peter says, "making it impossible to shoot in New Zealand," I wonder how close they were to dusting off the cameras and shooting this thing?

For those who pay attention to these sorts of matters, as Squire says above, what we have here is mostly a familiar refrain from the management side of a dispute. Yet the above paragraph does not sound as "if/then" as do these kind of statements usually.



Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 30 2010, 9:02pm

Post #29 of 79 (579 views)
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I don't think that's fair, or accurate [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
:...it doesn't guarantee residuals for ALL, which is what all of this is about.


I don't think that's entirely accurate. I think it's hard to argue that these are general demands for wages and residuals for ALL NZ actors now and in the future, given the timing and the fact that all of the statements and press releases of the FIA, MEAA and NZ Actor's Equity specifically reference Peter Jackson and The Hobbit production. From what we've learned of NZ laws, even if they win this battle, they'll have to fight it all over again with every production company that exists in the country unless the laws change. This seems very much like one specific battle, targeted at one production, where the outcome very much doesn't guarantee the same outcome for all on future productions.



Quote
if they were kicking up a stink about this on any other film than THE HOBBIT, I'm pretty sure the majority of the anti-union chat on this board wouldn't exist.


And that, I think, isn't a very fair statement. This *is* a board dedicated to discussion of The Hobbit, after all. The fans here have gone through many, many frustrations, as you know. So, to fault them for venting their frustrations at yet another roadblock isn't very fair. There have been just as many pro-union comment as not, and many venting their frustrations have been careful to couch it in terms of the specific circumstances, and not to disparage unions, or even the actor's unions, in general. At the same time those who truly are anti-union are welcome to express their feelings here too.

I've been very, very impressed with the tone of the discussions here with everyone willing to both listen and participate united as Hobbit fans, tolerant, respectful and open to other opinions. Let's not start painting with too broad a brush, or calling out people with whom we disagree simply because we don't like what they're saying.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 9:04pm

Post #30 of 79 (611 views)
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Appearances aside [In reply to] Can't Post

The principle is sound and has been a feature of labour relations for decades, all over the world. Having control over a person's livelihood is sometimes a terrible and awesome power to weild. It takes alot of sand to take issue with the person who signs your paycheck, even as a member of a group.


lurtz2010
Rohan

Sep 30 2010, 9:41pm

Post #31 of 79 (556 views)
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This sux [In reply to] Can't Post

Guess these MEAA people just weren't fans of the LOTR films...


Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 9:48pm

Post #32 of 79 (556 views)
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Where do you see Karl Urban stating his opinion in this article? [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see anything in the article where Karl Urban has said anything in opposition to Peter Jackson's stance.

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."

(This post was edited by Owain on Sep 30 2010, 9:52pm)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 9:52pm

Post #33 of 79 (560 views)
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It's not in this article [In reply to] Can't Post

It's been reported in other areas and linked to in this forum so it's sorta kinda "common knowledge" and PJ certainly has heard about it. Here's a link. Smile

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Owain
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 9:58pm

Post #34 of 79 (529 views)
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Ok... that makes more sense now. I hadn't seen this article and was reading the one posted... [In reply to] Can't Post

... in this thread. It's interesting to note that Cate Blanchett, Sir Ian McKellan, and Hugo Weaving are also listed as supporting the stance of the Union.

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Sep 30 2010, 9:59pm

Post #35 of 79 (526 views)
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Update from the Home Page: Stuff.co.nz: Jackson barred from union Hobbit meeting [In reply to] Can't Post

Sir Peter Jackson offered to go to an actors' union meeting last night called over the Hobbit dispute, but was turned down.

Spada had attempted to meet with the MEAA to discuss actors' terms and conditions for over 18 months, without success, he said.

The Hobbit's producers - including Sir Peter - contacted the MEAA and NZ Actors Equity yesterday morning with an offer to attend the Wellington meeting in the hope of finding a solution to the dispute.

After sending several requests asking for a response, the producers were finally told "no" shortly before the meeting started.

"It is pity we were not given the chance to have a discussion with the actors, who are the party most affected by the MEAA's actions," Sir Peter said. [Read More]



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squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:02pm

Post #36 of 79 (505 views)
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Thank you [In reply to] Can't Post

I've noticed that those here who are frustrated with the unions' blocking of The Hobbit's progress at the ten-yard line, are very generously acknowledging where their frustration is coming from, and are almost always stating that they are not necessarily against unions in general.

I don't consider this discussion to be anti-union. It's not particularly pro-management, either. It is, as might be expected, pretty pro-Jackson and pro-Hobbit!



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dormouse
Half-elven

Sep 30 2010, 10:04pm

Post #37 of 79 (543 views)
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According to the union they are.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but not one of them has made any public statement. I would assume the union statement about them has more to do with the fact that as members of acting unions in their own countries they would be obliged to support the international boycott or face some sort of sanctions. We don't know what they actually think about it.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:06pm

Post #38 of 79 (523 views)
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Nor will we hear from them any time soon [In reply to] Can't Post

if they are smart. (Which I am sure they are.)

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Sep 30 2010, 10:07pm)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 10:09pm

Post #39 of 79 (526 views)
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Indeed this was what I was flabbergasted about earlier in this thread [In reply to] Can't Post

This pretty much blows a giant hole in the whole "the production won't talk with us" narrative the union had going.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:11pm

Post #40 of 79 (502 views)
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You have to be careful what you ask for [In reply to] Can't Post

or you might get it and then some. Again this appears to be poor organizing on the part of NZAE (New Zealand Actors Equity.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Sep 30 2010, 10:12pm)


squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:11pm

Post #41 of 79 (497 views)
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I think he's just speaking in haste [In reply to] Can't Post

In the next sentence he says E. Europe is being "considered", which is certainly true, but hardly definite about a change of location. I take his statement to mean that the film is not yet actually "moving offshore", as if the decision has been irrevocably made. Understandably, given the point he's trying to make, he was a little too definite there. I imagine he is not very happy right now, what with having to look at preliminary location reports from his studio for, what, six other places in the world other than NZ.

I do think it's ironic that Jackson calls a shoot in E. Europe "moving offshore", when the American unions who are watching two major American studios fund another mega-production in New Zealand have long thought of Jackson's films as already being "offshore". It all depends on what your perspective is.



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Pipe Dream
Gondor


Sep 30 2010, 10:13pm

Post #42 of 79 (497 views)
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I'd keep quite too...If I were in the SAG... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but, since I'm not, I can say...GO TEAM JACKSON!

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Pre-Pre-production goes ever on and on...Go Team Jackson!


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 10:14pm

Post #43 of 79 (534 views)
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Ha ha very true [In reply to] Can't Post

I do think it's ironic that Jackson calls a shoot in E. Europe "moving offshore", when the American unions who are watching two major American studios fund another mega-production in New Zealand have long thought of Jackson's films as already being "offshore". It all depends on what your perspective is.

But it's just more confirmation (not that we really needed any) that he's New Zealand centric in his thinking.


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:24pm

Post #44 of 79 (510 views)
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A fair bit of [In reply to] Can't Post

rhetoric has woven its way through many of the posts and few are more guilty than I on this count.

It is sad really that some facts are dismissed because they are seen as pro-union or anti-union, left or right, good or evil... facts are facts, no? (See, here I go again.) For instance, the fact that anti-union sentiment is so deeply ingrained in our culture that we barely recognize it for what it is anymore can be proven empirically. And yet making a statement as such might be viewed -- dismissed or embraced depending -- as being pro-union. If the statement is true, then it is neither for or against, it is just true.

I agree, that for the most part, people participating in the discussions have been mindful of each other's perspectives and respectful of each person's right to their own opinions. The discussions have been interesting, lively, and at times humourous and heart wrenching all at once. However, unless you were speaking in general terms, I do not think it's fair to suggest that HM called anyone out because she didn't like what they were saying. If she did call someone out we can only guess at her motives. A guess should not be taken as fact.

One fact that has emerged, as you indicate, is that all of us fans want only the best for the production and those involved in its making. On this front we are united.

Another fact that has been demonstrated, yet again, is that TORn is a great place to engage freely in discussions about all matters pertaining to Middle-earth (and a whole bunch of other stuff to boot). We should all take a moment to recognize and be grateful for the unique and precious place that has been provided to us here, and especially for the volunteer staff who hold it all together so well, even in times such as these.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 30 2010, 10:26pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:26pm

Post #45 of 79 (513 views)
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New Movie: [In reply to] Can't Post

The workers association that couldn't shoot straight. "No-no you shoot their feet!"

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:27pm

Post #46 of 79 (480 views)
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That's exactly right. [In reply to] Can't Post

It would be extremely inappropriate for the producers' SPADA organization or Peter Jackson to address an actors' meeting in hopes of "settling" things. Nor is that what MEAA has claimed to be wanting to happen. I don't understand the apparent follies that we are being told MEAA and NZAE are guilty of, but I also don't trust either side to tell us what's going on here in any objective sense. There's no reason why SPADA should be considered to be the good guys here any more than MEAA. There are only ordinary people with conflicting interests here, not angels and demons.

I happen to think Jackson is a very good man and pretty sincere, but even he should understand how these things work. When I was a stage designer, some of our designer/painter union members had become co-owners of scenic shops - because they were experienced scenic artists who wanted to run a better shop and rise a bit in the world. Nevertheless, without giving up their union membership they were also now management, and had a conflicting interest in deciding things like what the union members should be asking for in contract negotiations. I remember being at one pre-contract negotiation meeting for the general membership, and the two very nice guys who were co-owners of shops were politely but firmly asked to leave the meeting. Jackson is in that position too (since he boasts of being a union member - director, I suppose - but he is also the biggest film producer in NZ). He should have known better than to try to be "good old Pete" and attend a meeting that was going to discuss how to deal with him in his producer role.

SPADA doesn't even have the excuse of their executives being union members. They are management, and should meet not with members, but should wait to meet with the members' collectively elected representatives in a situation where the power relationship begins to approximate equality.



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Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 10:32pm

Post #47 of 79 (481 views)
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Well said [In reply to] Can't Post

Another fact that has been demonstrated, yet again, is that TORn is a great place to engage freely in discussions about all matters pertaining to Middle-earth (and a whole bunch of other stuff to boot). We should all take a moment to recognize and be grateful for the unique and precious place that has been provided to us here, and especially for the volunteer staff who hold it all together so well, even in times such as these.

*a tear wells and falls*


King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:41pm

Post #48 of 79 (478 views)
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Well first shouldn't NZAE become a union before attempting this type of thing? [In reply to] Can't Post

As it is not a chartered organization I think Good ol' Pete had every right to talk to the gathering (all Union procedures aside)

The biggest problem here is the whole situation is so New Zealand that most Citizens of the United States can not understand. Here is a country that is truly small and slow to move into the wonderful global world that the Multinationals are building for us.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:43pm

Post #49 of 79 (462 views)
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I thought for a moment that you were going to ask for a moments silence.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 10:45pm

Post #50 of 79 (463 views)
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Rumours of the Hobbit's death have been greatly exagerated. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Hellmistress
Lorien


Sep 30 2010, 10:55pm

Post #51 of 79 (583 views)
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Fair point ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but the unions are regarding this as a test case because it is a well-publicised and much-anticipated film. ALL unions do that, and cause discomfort, usually to management and business pockets. That's what unions do - withhold labour until they get some sort of result in favour of workers who get a bad deal. I certainly appreciate that unions have used this concept to abuse their position, but in general their processes are well-thought out and effective, and those processes are there for a good reason. Until the fundamental system is changed in NZ either by changing the law or looking at the legal processes now being explored by NZ Equity, they will of course still have a fight on their hands every time. But in the end I think it's a fight worth engaging in.

I must also sincerely apologise to my colleagues here for my comment regarding anti-union comments - you're right, it wasn't fair, and I should know better. My bad.

I've waited over 40 years for someone to make a film out of one of my all-time adored books, and I find the delays very frustrating, as does everyone else here. So my only defense is that I have taken a step back and had a serious think about what is more important in life - making TH or making sure actors get a decent deal for their efforts like their colleagues elsewhere in the industry. Food on the table and paying the bills means more than a film, no matter how much I want to see it made.

I can't shake the gut instinct that something is profoundly wrong here, and while I usually regard hefty union interference with a healthy scepticism, in this case I think they are trying to do the right thing, and studio platitudes about what they are doing for their actors just don't cut it for me. For a start, there is no guarantee contractually that they might even get paid - these contracts can be broken at any time by the studios, whether the actor's performance is used or not, and they could end up not being paid at all, let along get some sort of 'pretend' residual, which would be a LOT more than they are offering if the film is the blockbuster it will probably be. Either which way you look at it, the NZ actors are not getting the deal their overseas colleagues get working on a BIG film for a company that should know better.

HM


In Reply To

Quote
:...it doesn't guarantee residuals for ALL, which is what all of this is about.


I don't think that's entirely accurate. I think it's hard to argue that these are general demands for wages and residuals for ALL NZ actors now and in the future, given the timing and the fact that all of the statements and press releases of the FIA, MEAA and NZ Actor's Equity specifically reference Peter Jackson and The Hobbit production. From what we've learned of NZ laws, even if they win this battle, they'll have to fight it all over again with every production company that exists in the country unless the laws change. This seems very much like one specific battle, targeted at one production, where the outcome very much doesn't guarantee the same outcome for all on future productions.



Quote
if they were kicking up a stink about this on any other film than THE HOBBIT, I'm pretty sure the majority of the anti-union chat on this board wouldn't exist.


And that, I think, isn't a very fair statement. This *is* a board dedicated to discussion of The Hobbit, after all. The fans here have gone through many, many frustrations, as you know. So, to fault them for venting their frustrations at yet another roadblock isn't very fair. There have been just as many pro-union comment as not, and many venting their frustrations have been careful to couch it in terms of the specific circumstances, and not to disparage unions, or even the actor's unions, in general. At the same time those who truly are anti-union are welcome to express their feelings here too.

I've been very, very impressed with the tone of the discussions here with everyone willing to both listen and participate united as Hobbit fans, tolerant, respectful and open to other opinions. Let's not start painting with too broad a brush, or calling out people with whom we disagree simply because we don't like what they're saying.



Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 11:00pm

Post #52 of 79 (589 views)
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Color me a simpleton [In reply to] Can't Post

But I'm not afraid of being stupid. Cool

I just can't wrap my brain around there being anything wrong with the producers of The Hobbit and/or PJ meeting with the union members and their management. Aren't they all adults? Don't they all have brains? At said meeting the producers can talk directly with everyone and all sides can be heard. I'm sure the union leaders could point out in the discussion where the producers have it wrong and likewise on the other side. Then everyone can go home have a beer and think about what was said.

Ah but see I come from a non-union state. I've actually been in companies where the management has talked directly to us. I've even talked back to them in response. Heck I've even gotten fellow co-workers together and had a sit-down with my Director of Operations and told him flat-out he wasn't very good at his job. So I guess that's where I'm coming from and that can be taken for what it's worth.

Everyone here starts calling for them to meet and when one party tries to meet then they get told "no".

And yes, according to reports, the NZ Actors Equity (or MEAA) HAS been supposedly trying to meet with The Hobbit producers and Peter Jackson. Those people specifically - not SPADA.

I don't see how pointing out this inconsistency on the NZ Actors Equity's part paints them as a demon. It just paints the situation as what it is.

You're probably right squire and Ataahua, this may not be "how things are done". *bows to my most respected fellow TORN-sibs* But in my humble opinion it couldn't hurt to do things this way.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 11:15pm

Post #53 of 79 (571 views)
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It makes sense but [In reply to] Can't Post

sense is not part of these types of situations. It is like rules of war. If you can make rules why cant you settle your differences. I believe anything that impedes human communication is bad. Procedures be damned (Unless you fear that you might just lose if all sides start talking openly.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 11:33pm

Post #54 of 79 (619 views)
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The unionized hobbits vs. Sir peter - A Short Film [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think this has been posted here yet, but I thought it was pretty funny:

The unionized hobbits vs. Sir Peter - a short film

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Sep 30 2010, 11:50pm

Post #55 of 79 (610 views)
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I'm not sure how I feel about that, [In reply to] Can't Post

...but the ending did make me laugh.

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Pre-Pre-production goes ever on and on...Go Team Jackson!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 11:50pm

Post #56 of 79 (617 views)
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Was waiting for something like this [In reply to] Can't Post

"I've never seen so much doom in one crack in all of my life." Love that Kiwi humour, ha!


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 11:50pm

Post #57 of 79 (595 views)
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That was pretty good [In reply to] Can't Post

And I hope I don't come across as "Mr. Serious" when I ask in relation to that obviously light-hearted video

*dramatic pause*

wasn't PJ suing New Line not just for personal gain but for making sure the production was paid what it was owed as well?

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 12:11am

Post #58 of 79 (585 views)
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Lays out the stereotypical situation very well but [In reply to] Can't Post

it is unfair to all parties in this mess. It is the old banana skin joke in Hobbit drag. I am not amused.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

Photobucket


Iolite
The Shire

Oct 1 2010, 12:23am

Post #59 of 79 (591 views)
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Not just PJ [In reply to] Can't Post

And don't forget that a bunch of New Zealand LOTR actors also sued New Line over royalties/residuals:

http://www.variety.com/...mp;cs=1&nid=2564

And so did Saul Zaentz:

http://www.allbusiness.com/...s-not/4399127-1.html

Not to mention HarperCollins and the Tolkien Estate.

It's really a case of who HASN'T sued New Line over their dodgey LOTR accounting practices! Wink


squire
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 12:39am

Post #60 of 79 (558 views)
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There's no set procedure, and no one here is stupid [In reply to] Can't Post

You ask perfectly sensible questions, especially since you have been lucky enough to hold a job at a place where management solicits worker feedback without repercussions.

I think most New Zealand film workers think the same way, at least from the reports we've been hearing from our discussion members who are over there and in the business.

Yet, I noticed from the report that, in fact, the performers posted a sign asking management not to attend the meeting. Why?

Here's how I imagine it.

Jim is a well-known character actor in New Zealand who has worked once on a Jackson film, and of course on numerous other local productions. He knows and likes Jackson personally, of course, but he actually has thought for some time that the working conditions and pay set-ups in New Zealand films aren't what they could be, considering the prominence NZ has acquired, partly thanks to Sir Peter, of course.

Jim never thought much of unions as the solution - was content to try to get the best deal he could via his agent - but now with all this hoo-hah, he's begun to wonder if he and his fellow actors shouldn't get together and see if the Pink Book shouldn't be made a little more legal and a little less voluntary. Dad was in a union, after all - tho' movies are different, naturally...

Jim goes to the meeting. He actually is hoping to get a part in The Hobbit - of course! - perhaps as an leading elf or a fighting lake man or even as a cruel goblin chieftain. Not that there aren't plenty of other guys his size and age who couldn't handle those roles, but he's got a good rep and he did work on that last shoot with Sir Peter.

Oh look, there's Pete! Wow. Guess he wants to knock this thing down before it even gets started. He'll be hearing everything I have to say tonight, about maybe changing things and holding out for some new clauses and conditions, maybe even going union if we can keep the Aussies at arms length. But if we can settle things, sounds like they'll be casting any day now. Hmmm...

Will Jim open his mouth at that meeting, or keep mum?



squire online:
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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 12:49am

Post #61 of 79 (551 views)
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I would be standing on a fraking chair waving for attention [In reply to] Can't Post

if I had something to say. We can talk to each other and we can hear what the other has to say. I know that this is so 1950s but it does work some times and is damn well worth a try before the lawyers come out.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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squire
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 1:00am

Post #62 of 79 (594 views)
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Hmm, thought good old Pete... [In reply to] Can't Post

"I thought 'Kangi' was a talented bloke, but this nonsense has to stop and stop now. He can do commercials for all I care, but he's no actor for me. I don't need that kind of attitude on the set - it never helps."

'Kangi', facing a bleak future that isn't exactly the same as actually being blacklisted, consoles himself that he did the right thing by speaking his mind about employment conditions in front of a seriously important and very threatened potential employer. 'Kangi's' wife and kids aren't so sure it's the 1950s anymore, except of course for the blacklisting part.



squire online:
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Gildor
Rivendell

Oct 1 2010, 1:06am

Post #63 of 79 (584 views)
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Two thumbs up for Squire [In reply to] Can't Post

I second this post. You always have thoughtful and reasonable messages.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2010, 1:23am

Post #64 of 79 (522 views)
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That's an understandable scenario and I won't go out of my way to poke holes in it [In reply to] Can't Post

Instead I'll play along and I'll come up with what I think are realistic results.

1. He doesn't say anything because he's afraid of pissing off Peter and not getting a job.
2. He doesn't say anything because Joe is his competition and may agree with PJ and thus PJ will look on him more favorably for a part than Jim if Jim speaks out.
3. He does say something because he's smart enough to figure out that PJ will generally get pissed (if Jim actually believes PJ will get pissed) at him indirectly (regardless) through the union leaders if Jim's concessions are in the package offered to PJ. This could lead to the production leaving New Zealand and Jim has no job.
4. He does say something because this is his chance to talk directly to PJ and the producers and get things going. Jim has bills to pay and he can't wait for some union people to decide when to close this deal.
5. He does say something because he doesn't want some union guy he barely knows making his points for him and he's worked with PJ before and knows PJ is a reasonable guy.

And this is assuming that the meeting has to be arranged where everybody talks. It could just as effectively be set up where both sides' leaders debate or present issues to the members (and non-members) and then anonymous votes could be taken.

May I also add that both sides being in the presence of one another can have a beneficial effect. If they're looking at each other as people (rather than an impersonal hostile entity) this could temper emotions and bring reason into the discussion.

I think either way Jim needs to man up and hear things for himself straight from the union bosses and from the producers - that way nothing is filtered.

And depending on how things go - I think it would be wise for those (union or non-union) who don't agree with the union to group up and talk to someone with a microphone - especially if they're interested in keeping The Hobbit in New Zealand. The more Warners see's there may not be solidarity the more they may incline to stay in NZ.

In regards to the signs - it seems from this report that things were a bit disorganized and people showed up not knowing they weren't invited until they saw the signs.

And as an aside - I could have been fired for speaking up or passed up for jobs that I desired (especially when I had that gathering with the Director of Operations). I opened my mouth with no guarantees that none of this would happen to me. So again this is where I come from.

As an aside to my aside - the Director of Operations didn't listen to us and the company about a year later went out of business.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 1:26am

Post #65 of 79 (526 views)
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Speaking of blacklisting [In reply to] Can't Post

isn't that what studios used to do to script writers and actors back in the 50's? Isn't this along the lines of why management isn't invited to such meetings even to this day?

It's funny that the production is saying they have been blacklisted. Where's McCarthy and Reagan when we need them?

"Is the Hobbit now, or has it ever been, a member of the Communist Party?"


Nickey08
Bree


Oct 1 2010, 1:43am

Post #66 of 79 (590 views)
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VERY VERY VERY IMPORTANT PETITION TO SIGN!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.petitiononline.com/nzhobbit/petition.html

http://www.myspace.com/nickeydrayer


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 1 2010, 1:57am

Post #67 of 79 (526 views)
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I'm afraid not [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ's lawsuit was to recover the money that he believed he was owed from New Line and not paid. Just as the New Zealand actor's lawsuit was for them to recover the money that they believed they were owed from New Line and not paid. The same with Saul Zaentz. And, of course, the Tolkien Estate and Harper Collins.

Obviously I don't agree with comparing PJ with the Dark Lord, and I didn't think the point of the film was to do so. I thought it was just to poke a little fun at all the parties involved, and I thought it succeeded in doing so.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 2:34am

Post #68 of 79 (544 views)
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But I would have done the honerable thing and [In reply to] Can't Post

I do believe in honor as do my son and wife. I am proud of my political and union involvement and I do not fear anyone in a verbal match. Human beings need to talk to one another. It keeps the opponent real.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Oct 1 2010, 2:47am

Post #69 of 79 (502 views)
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There's a time and a place [In reply to] Can't Post

The purpose of this meeting was ostensively so that the union leadership could meet and discuss the situation with the union membership. In order for that representation to be meaningful, they need to have that opportunity, free from intrusion from management. Jackson's statement about wanting to go to that meeting was the most suspicious thing that he has said, to my mind. It would be like the other side of case I was handling wanting to attend a meeting I was having with my client before we had had a chance to fully discuss the case together. I would never allow that, even though most of the time there is a time and a place where a meeting between the parties and their representatives (preferably with a neutral party to mediate) could help resolve the dispute.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Oct 1 2010, 2:52am

Post #70 of 79 (515 views)
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I like this part [In reply to] Can't Post

"there is a time and a place where a meeting between the parties and their representatives (preferably with a neutral party to mediate) could help resolve the dispute"

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

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Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Oct 1 2010, 6:21am

Post #71 of 79 (473 views)
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I thought the exact same thing! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



macfalk
Valinor


Oct 1 2010, 7:20am

Post #72 of 79 (506 views)
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We are not anti-unions, we are anti-THIS union. 97,14% vs 2,86% is a crystal clear result to that. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2010, 8:56am

Post #73 of 79 (504 views)
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You speak for me, Altaira [In reply to] Can't Post

Basically I agree with all of the above.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

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NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


dormouse
Half-elven

Oct 1 2010, 11:33am

Post #74 of 79 (461 views)
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Another perspective on the dispute [In reply to] Can't Post

There are so many links around now, but I thought this one was interesting:

http://tvnz.co.nz/...tinues-3814024/video


chrismortega
Bree


Oct 1 2010, 12:38pm

Post #75 of 79 (482 views)
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Now they are trying to smoke him out! [In reply to] Can't Post

...with good old fashioned union intimidation tactics. Scary.

"NEVER TRUST AN ELF!"


Elven
Valinor


Oct 1 2010, 1:38pm

Post #76 of 79 (370 views)
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Thanks for the link dormouse ... [In reply to] Can't Post

There was some interesting 'back' footage going on amongst the interview as well.

Cheers
Smile


(This post was edited by Elven on Oct 1 2010, 1:43pm)


Doriath
Rivendell


Oct 1 2010, 6:24pm

Post #77 of 79 (363 views)
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really wish [In reply to] Can't Post

we were greenlit and knee deep in discussion about the story of the Hobbit. Having fun again and done with this nightmare.

The Trees will have their revenge!


cameragod
Lorien


Oct 1 2010, 11:00pm

Post #78 of 79 (305 views)
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What gets me about all this is [In reply to] Can't Post

Sir Peter is a good employer. He is a man who loves/lives film and has done so much for the NZ film industry, so why are the unions going after him? Why are they not chasing the villains of the industry?

Over the years I’ve worked for some bad employers.
Seven months to pay six months of work is not uncommon.
Safety issues on set. After broken bones and a homemade pyrotechnics set a fire engine on fire we were dropped from filming a series for asking for assurances for our safety.
One production house was notorious for exploiting child actors… ringing local schools offering $10 per child and then working them 12 hours on set without providing food and calling it “work experience.”

In all of this I ask where were the unions?

Surely they should go after the bad guys not the ones trying to help the industry.

All artists are prepared to suffer for their work, but why are so few prepared to learn to draw? :BANKSY


"A Cameraman without a camera is just a man." Stephen Press


Peredhil lover
Valinor


Oct 3 2010, 4:20pm

Post #79 of 79 (259 views)
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Completely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

with your last paragraph. That's what is making TORn so special.



I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.

TORn Link Collection
TORn Travelling Journal website

 
 

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