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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
From Variety: Unions to thesps:" Don't work on The Hobbit"
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Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 12:40am

Post #301 of 330 (2008 views)
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Ideological maybe - power most certainly oh "squire the cruel" ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

Why should the "global actors guilds and unions" give two hoots about the New Zealand film industry

I brought up some points earlier in this thread about globalization being the only way unions can really hang on to power - so the more unions the less places there are for industry to go to avoid them. This whole incident is proof that these unions are communicating and *twirls mustache conspiratorially* plotting...

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.

(This post was edited by Tim on Sep 30 2010, 12:41am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 12:42am

Post #302 of 330 (1970 views)
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When the dog finishes eating the dog [In reply to] Can't Post

who is going to pay for it all/

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

Photobucket


Gildor
Rivendell

Sep 30 2010, 12:42am

Post #303 of 330 (2238 views)
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Not completely out of production's hands [In reply to] Can't Post

"These unions are pressuring him and WB to do something that is entirely out of their hands. And when Peter and WB make that clear to them, the unions continue to push with ill-informed legal advice. "

I disagree. Peter Jackson and co. could certainly enter into talks with the government to see how things could be resolved. It seems to me there's at least three parties: gov't, production, actors.





Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 12:47am

Post #304 of 330 (2277 views)
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Actually that process has already started [In reply to] Can't Post

Attorney-General Chris Finlayson has written to Sir Peter Jackson's Hollywood backers to reassure them New Zealand law rules out an expensive union-negotiated collective agreement for actors on Lord of the Rings prequel The Hobbit.

Looks like the government is well-aware of the problem and it's definitely in their hands for it to be fixed.

Of course there also has to be an actual union to hold talks with - the people wanting to talk to The Hobbit production aren't part of a legal union (in New Zealand).

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.

(This post was edited by Tim on Sep 30 2010, 12:51am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 12:53am

Post #305 of 330 (2147 views)
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Drat those [In reply to] Can't Post

blasted unions and their bottomless pockets for causing mayhem all over the globe.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 12:56am

Post #306 of 330 (2415 views)
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Don't fall over dead from shock [In reply to] Can't Post

But I think it's a good idea for unions to go global as long as they're run well. I just don't like the idea of them holding The Hobbit hostage (as I've described in other posts).

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 12:58am

Post #307 of 330 (2436 views)
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Hoot hoot! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 1:18am

Post #308 of 330 (2076 views)
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I have problems with really big unions [In reply to] Can't Post

that do not moderate their behavior according to local conditions or take into account the needs of those that they would leverage into membership. I back unions as a collective voice in opposition to ownership & management. I generally dislike big media circuses that play fast and loose with facts. This situation is all of this and more. I am sure there are workers needs that can be better met. Not every employer is Fezzywig nor are they necessarily Scrooge & Marley. Unions can be a very good thing. Honest open non-exploitative management can make the whole situation great. The two combined makes for a wonderful place to work.

I do not defend unions or corporate entities (This includes banks) because they originated in the country in which I happened to be born. Good is good and evil is evil regardless of arbitrary boundaries. Where I pay taxes is an accident of birth.

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Sep 30 2010, 1:19am)


Iolite
The Shire

Sep 30 2010, 1:41am

Post #309 of 330 (2046 views)
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Here is the relevant NZ law.... [In reply to] Can't Post

... if any lawyers want to wade through it:

Commerce Act 1986
The aim of the Commerce Act is to promote competition in markets within New Zealand. It prohibits conduct that restricts competition (restrictive trade practices) and the purchase of a business's shares or assets if that purchase leads to a substantial lessening of competition in the market.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/...latest/DLM87623.html

It appears that what the Actors Unions are calling for amounts to 'Price Fixing' under NZ's Commerce Act, in particular section 30, since a collective agreement that applies to all NZ actors would remove competition between individual actors.


(This post was edited by Iolite on Sep 30 2010, 1:44am)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 1:46am

Post #310 of 330 (2055 views)
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Thanks Iolite! [In reply to] Can't Post

*gets to reading*

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 1:57am

Post #311 of 330 (2095 views)
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This must really throw [In reply to] Can't Post

a wrench in things when people claim they would work on The Hobbit for free:

Quote

It appears that what the Actors Unions are calling for amounts to 'Price Fixing' under NZ's Commerce Act, in particular section 30, since a collective agreement that applies to all NZ actors would remove competition between individual actors.




squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 2:13am

Post #312 of 330 (2013 views)
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Good and evil? [In reply to] Can't Post

Who is good here? Who is evil?

How can we know? Is New Zealand Middle-earth?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 2:21am

Post #313 of 330 (2005 views)
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Good and evil are real as is New Zealand [In reply to] Can't Post

Middle-earth is fictional (as far as I know). The apportioning of evil and good requires lengthy thought and clear vision.(both of which we lack in this situation)

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

Photobucket


Eruonen
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 3:01am

Post #314 of 330 (2121 views)
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Absolutely, that is my point [In reply to] Can't Post

The NZ actors union is a tool and if they end up mashed and brokern, well, sacrifice for the rest is a-ok when it comes to unions. That is why I suspect SAG and other guilds etc. don't mind stirring things up.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 3:23am

Post #315 of 330 (2982 views)
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To paraphrase Aragorn [In reply to] Can't Post

'Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and amonger among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in New Zealand as in Middle-earth'

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 3:51am

Post #316 of 330 (2322 views)
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Right, thank you for that [In reply to] Can't Post

So, using Aragorn's helpful advice, since it applies to New Zealand as well as Middle-earth, who in this dispute is "good"? and who is evil, or "ill"? How can we discern this?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 3:57am

Post #317 of 330 (2685 views)
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The good dogs taste better. (its a dog eat dog world) [In reply to] Can't Post

Or as one of my Social stats students long ago wrote " Its a doggy dog world."

Kangi Ska

Make the Hobbit Happen Now!

Photobucket


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 30 2010, 4:16am

Post #318 of 330 (2815 views)
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I knew you were going to ask that :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I can only state my own opinion from what I can discern. While I am sympathetic to the stated goals of obtaining fair wages, it doesn't appear to me that that is what this is really about. I really does appear to me to be a power grab on the part of the MEAA, and at best, a misinformed and unfortunate stand by the SAG and other international unions. But whether I am discerning correctly I really can't say.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Garfeimao
Rohan


Sep 30 2010, 6:32am

Post #319 of 330 (2876 views)
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Skips over all the political wrangling [In reply to] Can't Post

And makes a comment about the cool updates on the progress of the Hobbiton set work.

They've done a lot of work so far, added roads, new hobbit holes, expanding the parking area, etc. Can't wait to see what it looks like in a few months time when they've finished the holes and gotten all the plant life growing and blooming and looking very Shire-like.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



My page in the Traveling Journal


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Sep 30 2010, 8:33am

Post #320 of 330 (3047 views)
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I thought it looked behind schedule. [In reply to] Can't Post

There are only four months to go until the rumored start. I'm guessing of course, but I thought it would be much futher along then that by now.

Photobucket

Pre-Pre-production goes ever on and on...


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 30 2010, 9:52am

Post #321 of 330 (2858 views)
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I got the same feeling... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I was thinking all construction would be complete by now (seeing as they're shooting for a January start) and that the grass and hedgerows and all would be nice and overgrown.

But at least they've come this far and the site looks quite active so I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Besides, it was pleasant to see those amazing images amid all the mess Smile



macfalk
Valinor


Sep 30 2010, 12:09pm

Post #322 of 330 (2842 views)
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Welcome to Azerbajdzjan, Bilbo Baggins. [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Zizix
Rivendell


Sep 30 2010, 12:31pm

Post #323 of 330 (2813 views)
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My guess [In reply to] Can't Post

is that they'll sort this out pretty soon. As has been said, the actors and in fact the entire country of New Zealand will lose a lot if the movies aren't made in New Zealand, and if they aren't made pretty damn soon.
I think that moving the production to Eastern Europe is more of a counter-threat to the unions rarther than a viable option. They can't recreate the LotR sets let alone the locations outside New Zealand. Hobbiton has already been built. The entire production is based around New Zealand. If the movies can't be made in New Zealand, the project will die or at best fail miserably. But that'll only happen if these unions or the other parties involved are really stupid and don't realize the losses made by everyone if this project doesn't happen.


(This post was edited by Zizix on Sep 30 2010, 12:32pm)


squire
Half-elven


Sep 30 2010, 1:31pm

Post #324 of 330 (2284 views)
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Four months is a long time [In reply to] Can't Post

If that tape represents September work for a January shoot, they have plenty of time. Most of the built sets are seemingly in place and being roofed over. The detailed facades for the hobbit holes are not built and painted in place, but in a shop. They can be installed over the rough hillside openings in less than a week. At the end of the tape the copter flew over the nursery where the larger plantings are being raised while construction proceeds.

I had heard that the Hobbiton set was being extended or enlarged for The Hobbit. I didn't see any sign of that; and frankly, I don't see why they would do so when less action takes place there in The Hobbit than it does in LotR, even in the film version. It's Bag End - the studio interior set, not the landscape exterior - that should be vastly enlarged for this movie. I look forward to those endless halls full of guestrooms and pantries for Bilbo to scuttle down as he tries to host a banquet and sleepover for fourteen! And that will enrich our viewing of his intimate one-on-one hosting of Gandalf in Fellowship - knowing how many more people he could accommodate when he had to.

So as always, I hope they shoot this film with regard to how it will play to audiences who will watch it before, not after, LotR. The expansive and detailed introduction to the Shire that we get in the opening of Fellowship (even in the Theatrical Edition, much less the EE), should replicate the situation found in the books, where LotR enlarges rather than shrinks the audience's understanding of Bilbo's (and Frodo's) home and society.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd (and NOW the 4th too!) TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 30 2010, 2:54pm

Post #325 of 330 (2707 views)
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Alright you thread-hijackers ;-) [In reply to] Can't Post

I want the Hobbiton set to be ready in four months too but let's dive into some stuff the article on the main page says that's on topic. *ducks veggies thrown at him*

The MEAA has now admitted that their collective bargaining proposal is in fact, illegal, under New Zealand law.
After days of explanation and legal opinions, including one from the Crown Law Office, Jennifer Ward-Lealand of NZ Equity has admitted that the MEAA’s demands to enter into collective bargaining are in fact illegal.


I've tried to find this on another web site where she admits this is illegal but I haven't been able to find anything. If she really did that's major news and SAG & Co. need to drop the blacklist.

King Arthur: Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?
Tim: There are some who call me... Tim.

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