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squire
Half-elven
May 30 2008, 8:34pm
Post #201 of 238
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I think The Quest for Erebor quite ruins the Unexpected Party scene, which makes perfect sense on its own as an introduction to The Hobbit. When it comes to capturing the charm, power, and integral themes of the hobbit's story (that is, Bilbo's story), I say stick to The Hobbit book and LotR be dashed!
I also suspect Tolkien realized this, which is why he trimmed The Quest down to the part he put in the LotR appendices and filed the rest of it away under "unfinished".
As the saying goes, Unfinished Tales is dangerous as a guide to deeds, and thoughts. Parts of it are often contradictory to LotR, The Hobbit or both, and the multiple version/fragments of each story that CT found and published are contradictory among themselves.
squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary
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Lunamoth
Rohan
May 30 2008, 8:49pm
Post #202 of 238
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The problem with Paul Giamatti...
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...is that you look at him and hear him speak and all you think is, that there is Paul Giamatti.
It's why I don't think well-known American actors are the best way to go with casting any of the roles.
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Solicitr
Gondor
May 30 2008, 8:49pm
Post #203 of 238
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except for the Tale of Years of the Second Age, and the brief summaries of the Elder Days and the Fall of Numenor.
(I haven't read them yet- it's possible the Green Zone might include the War of the Last Alliance at the tage-end of the Second Age)
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xxxyyy
Rohan
May 30 2008, 9:07pm
Post #204 of 238
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I don't care who they will choose. the important is that...
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it MUST look like a young Ian Holm, maybe with some makeup or CGI.
It must also be an actor who acts like Ian Holm.
If this is what they will choose, they have my blessing, otherwise... what a shame...
I'm confident, despite these (awful) rumors.
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stormcrow20
Gondor
May 30 2008, 10:32pm
Post #205 of 238
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Paul Giamatti?
Oh, dear....my list of "unacceptables" for The Hobbit and film 2 just keeps getting longer....
~~~~~~
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss (Theodor Geisel)
Believe in the possibility of the impossible.
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Yelwrose
Registered User
May 31 2008, 12:08am
Post #206 of 238
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Martin Freeman is your man....er...hobbit
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Something to think about. Martin Freeman even looks like a young Ian Holm. McAvoy is too "pretty" (would make a nice elf) and Radcliffe is Harry Potter. Martin is PERFECT for our beloved Bilbo. I have read that Sir Ian may narrate which would be lovely.
What inspires you?
trees, dreams, doubt, birds, books, rain (viggo mortensen
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Sunflower
Valinor
May 31 2008, 2:12am
Post #207 of 238
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McAvoy is too much a star for this.
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He has come a VERY long way since Mr.Tumnus from Narnia. It's hard, for me, to picture The White Guy From The Last King Of Scotland and The Guy Who Ripped Keira Knightley's Clothes Off In The Library (Atonement) to be able to "come down" again to putting on hobbit feet and talking to a dragon. At least that's the way some snobbish A-listers (or borderline A-listers) would feel, IMO. Look up his profile on Wikipedia....he is an A-lister, no doubt about it. After his Golden Globe nom for Atonement, I don't doubt he might consider something like this beneath him....
BTW, this has got to stop....McAvoy's Wikipedia entry, as well as umpteen Google links, place him as "heading the list" of people tipped to play Bilbo! Not that I object to the speculation, but its' been 24 hrs since GDT refuted the rumors....you'd think these people would log onto TORN and do their research. Sheesh. 
Some have observed that Martin Freeman would be less suitable for the role b/c he is stigmatized as a comic actor and has less range and chops. Well, I think we have learned by now that PJ, Fran, and yes, GDT can pull out amazing performances from people you think would not be able to do them. Freeman, moreover, is an actor who needs the exposure. I'm sure he'd feel it would be worth it to endure the physical demands of the job for the boost to his career. If he is to be stigmatized as a "genre" actor, better to have the greatest "genre" role of all.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on May 31 2008, 2:20am)
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Woodyend
Gondor
May 31 2008, 2:23am
Post #208 of 238
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Well I think the A-listers should take a look at what LOTR did for Viggo.
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May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Sunflower
Valinor
May 31 2008, 2:35am
Post #209 of 238
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The role of the Father in "The Road" is in a sense a typical "Viggo" role, a variation on an archetype he played many times before LOTR, but he was still "under the radar" then. A lot of this was Viggo himself, refusing to play the Hollywood game. But since being on the LOTR set he has learned a lot about publicity and marketing. Well, not that he needs a lot of marketing in one sense...to us ladies he's got the goods, and we knew that BEFORE Eastern Promises  
But you know what I mean. Without LOTR there would have been no "The Road." He would have gone on making Croenenberg films..not that there's anything wrong with that of course, but fewer people in Hollywood would have been watching. "Viggo who?"
Which brings up an interesting point. I wonder if (artistically speaking) he'd consider getting back into the Aragorn costume for Film 2 an artistic regression, for all the fun of the filming experience....you know, the way we consider Indy 4 as good, but still nostalgia. It would be interesting for him to go back and revisit a much less complex role...as Aragorn is an archetype. And that's the more complex *cinematic* Aragorn....not the much more linear character of the book. (I love both, BTW)
Viggo has changed. I wonder if I was the only one who was shocked at his comments during Oscar season last yr..he was following the nominations VERY closely and sounded in his comments like the seasoned insider. The nomination meant a lot to him. Whereas during LOTR he couldn't have cared less. Look at all the hype and attention "The Road" is getting already. It's a huge project. He's used to that now. And he's not like Ian McKellan, he's just hitting his stride, a late bloomer, and still young enough in a sense to be ambitious.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on May 31 2008, 2:42am)
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Woodyend
Gondor
May 31 2008, 3:17am
Post #210 of 238
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I don’t think I have ever paused a DvD as much as I have that one. 
As far as revisiting Aragorn, I think Viggo would if he wants to work with the director, and of course if the script is good. We will come back to the same problem of age with him, like we will with Bilbo though.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Sunflower
Valinor
May 31 2008, 3:50am
Post #211 of 238
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Pausing the DVD....hehe. Guilty as charged . Well, HE started it, by saying in interviews he wouldn't mind!
Anyway, the age issue..it would be no problem to show him as Thorongil, I mean, the man is ageless, he only needs to dye his beard and mustache and that would be it. He wore a wig anyway. With a teeny bit of makeup, he could pull off anything in the 50-70 yrs old age range (30's in Dunedain yrs?), but 20 would definitely be a problem. And here is where we see just how much footage PJ has stashed in the closet and if GDT would agree to crimping any of this footage for his film.
(This post was edited by Sunflower on May 31 2008, 3:51am)
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Daughter of Nienna
Grey Havens
May 31 2008, 8:41am
Post #212 of 238
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...is filled with these kinds of things. There are very often a list of names, short or long, that get bandied about. Some are pretty funny in hind-sight. I cant think of an example at the moment. Some times the names that first get mentioned, were never really in serious contention. Just names getting thrown around.
Just as with any artistic endeavor... the first thoughts are usually the ones thrown out... they are only for the porposes of brainstorming ideas.
Who's to say who the real contender will be. We are a long way from that... there's till lots of time.
I love James McAvoy, won me over in Last King of Scotland... though I can't quite picture him as Bilbo.
I agree with what someone said that who GDT & PJ have in mind might well be different from the top guys. They may even do a search for an unknown... or someone that doesn't have a marquee name... yet. I actually like that idea best.
I'll just wait and see and too soon to push the panic buttons.
**Tribute: Lt. J.G. Robert Sterling, WWII Pilot MIA, by Gramma & DoN**
Art Gallery Revised, Aloha & Mahalo, Websites Directory
Nienna: “ those who hearken to her learn pity, and endurance in hope . . . All those who wait in Mandos cry to her, for she brings strength to the spirit and turns sorrow to wisdom." — Valaquenta
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Yelwrose
Registered User
May 31 2008, 4:43pm
Post #213 of 238
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Which brings up an interesting point. I wonder if (artistically speaking) he'd consider getting back into the Aragorn costume for Film 2 an artistic regression, for all the fun of the filming experience....you know, the way we consider Indy 4 as good, but still nostalgia. It would be interesting for him to go back and revisit a much less complex role...as Aragorn is an archetype. And that's the more complex *cinematic* Aragorn....not the much more linear character of the book. (I love both, BTW)
Viggo has changed. I wonder if I was the only one who was shocked at his comments during Oscar season last yr..he was following the nominations VERY closely and sounded in his comments like the seasoned insider. The nomination meant a lot to him. Whereas during LOTR he couldn't have cared less. Look at all the hype and attention "The Road" is getting already. It's a huge project. He's used to that now. And he's not like Ian McKellan, he's just hitting his stride, a late bloomer, and still young enough in a sense to be ambitious.
While Viggo has become more comfortable with promotion and interviews, he hasn't really changed. He is still the warm, intense, thoughtful person he has always been. He has stated (not since the announcement of the green light on The Hobbit and Film 2) that he would be interested in reprising Aragorn. Viggo-Works has the interview in their archives. Of course, while it's still way to early to know for sure, I think that if he can, and if the script is good, that he will. If he doesn't do it, there really is no point in making Film 2. Reports that he is already in talks are mistaken. There is always hope! Viggo can pull off the younger man, and as someone above stated, who knows what footage PJ already has? I believe I read a long time ago that PJ filmed the meeting of Arwen and Estel Just have a look at pictures this week from his photo exhibit in Iceland. He has shaved off the beard and already looks 20 years younger. Movie magic can make the rest happen. Return to us, our Aragorn!
What inspires you?
trees, dreams, doubt, birds, books, rain (viggo mortensen)
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Woodyend
Gondor
May 31 2008, 5:54pm
Post #214 of 238
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Welcome to the board Yelwrose.
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The movie would not be the same without Viggo. I don't think I could accept another actor in his role. But who knows. I didn't think I could accept Daniel Craig as James Bond, but he proved me wrong.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Woodyend
Gondor
May 31 2008, 9:39pm
Post #215 of 238
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Pausing the DVD....hehe. Guilty as charged . Well, HE started it, by saying in interviews he wouldn't mind! Anyway, the age issue..it would be no problem to show him as Thorongil, I mean, the man is ageless, he only needs to dye his beard and mustache and that would be it. He wore a wig anyway. With a teeny bit of makeup, he could pull off anything in the 50-70 yrs old age range (30's in Dunedain yrs?), but 20 would definitely be a problem. And here is where we see just how much footage PJ has stashed in the closet and if GDT would agree to crimping any of this footage for his film.
didn’t they burn all of it after ROTK was filmed? I remember seeing at least some of it burn in appendix of the EE version.
May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~
Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!
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Yelwrose
Registered User
May 31 2008, 11:02pm
Post #216 of 238
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The movie would not be the same without Viggo. I don't think I could accept another actor in his role. But who knows. I didn't think I could accept Daniel Craig as James Bond, but he proved me wrong.
Thank you, Woodyend! I've followed TORn for years, but GDT's entry here inspired me to register. How incredibly generous of him to join and post in this community. I was a bit worried at first when I read that he said in an interview that he had not read LOTR because he found it too "dense," but my fears are now allayed. He obviously is catching up quickly and is a bonafide Middle Earth lover now. I'm actually quite excited about his involvement now. The fact that he is interested in communicating with the fans speaks volumes to me.
I do agree with you that I could not accept anyone other than Viggo in the role of Aragorn. Bond? Yes, many have tackled that role and made it their own, Daniel Craig being one of the best, IMO. But Aragorn? No. It cannot be. It must be Viggo or no one.
Thanks again for the warm welcome. I look forward to being part of this community. One that has earned a fine and well-deserved reputation for excellence.
What inspires you?
trees, dreams, doubt, birds, books, rain (viggo mortensen)
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Jun 1 2008, 1:23am
Post #217 of 238
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then why did he make the hobbits longer-lived than humans? It seems clear to me that hobbits had a longer life-span than humans, so everything was stretched, including coming of age. I don't think there is anything in Tolkien's writing, including his letters, that indicate that hobbits mature as quickly as humans.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Peredhil lover
Valinor
Jun 1 2008, 5:52am
Post #218 of 238
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'Welcome' from another former long-time lurker
I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.
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Sunflower
Valinor
Jun 1 2008, 7:38am
Post #219 of 238
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Yelwrose, when I said Viggo has "changed" I did not mean to suggest that all this success has gone to his head and he has morphed into an A-list snob. Far from it! And you are right, personality-wise, he is still the great and humble guy he has always been. But for me, a newfound awareness of marketing and publicity is a major change for a guy who went until his mid-40's without caring about such. He is much more savvy now. Part of me still longs for the Eternal Outsider...but hey, for him, there's nowhere to go but up.
Thanks for filling me in on his recent comments about playing Aragorn again. That reassures me. Some people might not want to go back to revisiting this type of role after "making it big", but if there's anyone who wouldn't care, then I guess he wouldn't. It just shows what a nice guy he is.
Someone wrote that they thought he did a fine job as Strider, but they didn't see him as a good "king of men." I thought he did a fantastic job of portraying the man who walked around in rags but had the aspect of a king. Particularily in the scenes with Theoden in the middle of TTT....the conversation they have on the battlements of Helm's Deep when they are arguing about riding out for more aid. Theoden says, "No, my lord Aragorn, we are alone." The camera flashes to a filthy and bedraggled Aragorn and you think, "WHAT is he doing in those rags?" I pictured him wearing a king's finery at that point. Already, he is Theoden's equal, and I don't think Theoden was entirely mocking him at that point. And by the time of ROTK Theoden is addressing him like a second-in-command and it's entirely believable.The Estel saying farewell to his mother's grave in Rivendell was already a seasoned warrior and leader, and you sense that even in the quiet scenes. I thought the filmmakers handled his "growing" into the role of King very well (for all this version of Aragorn is not the one of the book.) If not Viggo, who would you have suggested? Some Hollywood mainstream pretty boy like Russell Crowe or Eric Bana? The thin and wiry Viggo handled it quite well....he had all the right gravitas.
Speaking of which....one character I'd like to see in Film 2 is Gilraen. It might be possible to show her as an older woman. I am going to go back and try to watch the Trilogy again and pick up clues of cmaera work/shots that would suggest a future continuity link. As if PJ ever pictured TH being made and they tried to film stuff that could provide a possible continuity link. The cloxse-up of Gilraen's face on her statue would suggest this. As well as, of course, all the Hobbit refs in LOTR. I have always wondered whose face that statue was modeled after....
(This post was edited by Sunflower on Jun 1 2008, 7:44am)
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Voorhas
Lorien
Jun 1 2008, 7:53am
Post #220 of 238
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Especially since Dan Radcliffe will be involved!
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe
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Voorhas
Lorien
Jun 1 2008, 8:04am
Post #221 of 238
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Maybe they can use outtakes of his scenes from Witness.
I kid!
"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe
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Solicitr
Gondor
Jun 1 2008, 10:32am
Post #222 of 238
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lived longer than other humans, but didn't mature any more slowly. Aragorn was full-grown at twenty.
Why did JRRT give hobbits longer lifespans (but not beyond RW longevity)? Probably a tribute to claen living
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Jun 2 2008, 8:27pm
Post #223 of 238
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Let me know if you need any help! I'm a really fast typist :)
Cheers!
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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merklynn
Lorien
Jun 2 2008, 8:34pm
Post #224 of 238
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LOL, and I'll make the coffee, or tea //
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Teleri
Registered User
Jun 2 2008, 9:37pm
Post #225 of 238
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re: I'm going to have to "trust PJ"...
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Hugh Bonneville indeed would be inspired casting for Bilbo. I like the idea of Martin Freeman but do prefer Hugh.
James McElroy can act, assuredly, but so can Mr. Bonneville, so I'm thinking the one that looks more like Sir Ian Holmes should definitely play the part :D
BB
Teleri
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