|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Nov 30 2024, 4:13pm
Post #76 of 153
(4139 views)
Shortcut
|
|
If a disease has no ill effects, but only beneficial ones, why try to cure it?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Still waiting for examples pertaining to RoP, which after all is the raison d'être of this board. I’m not interested in generalities. What you’ve been talking about are nonspecific and uninformed perceptions about the possible consequences of DEI, not any actual consequences. It’s all theoretical and so doesn’t necessarily exist in the real world.
If RoP is not adversely affected by DEI, is anything else?
RoP has its self-inflicted problems but is not struggling because of DEI. That has caused no discernable harm to the story or the production. Rather, any issues around hiring policies are external, generated by people who, for their own reasons, some perhaps unconscious, object to or feel threatened by the inclusion of others in areas of society previously dominated by one segment of the population.
You can dress that up anyway you like as a matter of integrity, principle or free speech, but that’s what it is. Lipstick on a pig, etc. The ultimate objective of DEI is a level playing field and inclusion for all.
There is now a kind of hysteria surrounding RoP that has nothing to do with its quality or lack thereof. It is simply not that nearly that bad.
The sun yet shines
|
|
|
Michelle Johnston
Mithlond
Nov 30 2024, 6:13pm
Post #77 of 153
(4127 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Writing not good writers fired.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Still waiting for examples pertaining to RoP, which after all is the raison d'être of this board. I’m not interested in generalities. What you’ve been talking about are nonspecific and uninformed perceptions about the possible consequences of DEI, not any actual consequences. It’s all theoretical and so doesn’t necessarily exist in the real world.
If RoP is not adversely affected by DEI, is anything else?
RoP has its self-inflicted problems but is not struggling because of DEI. That has caused no discernable harm to the story or the production. Rather, any issues around hiring policies are external, generated by people who, for their own reasons, some perhaps unconscious, object to or feel threatened by the inclusion of others in areas of society previously dominated by one segment of the population.
You can dress that up anyway you like as a matter of integrity, principle or free speech, but that’s what it is. Lipstick on a pig, etc. The ultimate objective of DEI is a level playing field and inclusion for all.
There is now a kind of hysteria surrounding RoP that has nothing to do with its quality or lack thereof. It is simply not that nearly that bad.
Noria during this second season the handful of people who do not like the show at all, have revealed their antipathy is based in DEI.
When you ask for specific examples Caretaker has actually admitted he is calling out the quality on the basis of corporate policy affecting quality, as if he knows that DEI = poor quality writing.
Not only is that utter nonsense, though I commend him for his honesty but the show runners have replaced the writers for S 3. Maybe thats because they see flaws in the writing like er we all do.
One of the great things about this site is that every member of the site accepts there are flaws. That makes it very difficult for the implacable, especially when some parts of the show are very good. The dwarves have never been better presented or the two charles in S2.
So is that because of DEI or are all the people involved in the successful parts their on merit.
Finally how come S2 is much better than S1, could it not be like tons of shows they have a shakedown and get better.
In other words people are so up themselves on DEI they have lost perspective.
There is however no doubt now in my mind people in the United States have really been bent out of shape by this. Everything is framed in the context of DEI.
I hold to the notion that if Hollywood is mediocre it is much more to do with accountants than human resources.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
|
|
|
TFP
Menegroth
Nov 30 2024, 7:05pm
Post #78 of 153
(4113 views)
Shortcut
|
I think they're very interesting, well worth discussing, but there's only so much to say about them & I wouldn't say that any of the ten or so best or worst things about the show are even tangentially related.
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Nov 30 2024, 7:52pm
Post #79 of 153
(4106 views)
Shortcut
|
Caretaker has actually admitted he is calling out the quality on the basis of corporate policy affecting quality, as if he knows that DEI = poor quality writing. Not only is that utter nonsense, though I commend him for his honesty...
You give me more credit than due. Please reread with comprehension. "DEI (and ESG) is seen as... In this view, ..." I am reporting - not admitting. Though it makes enough sense that it needs falsification, hence my previous posts.
Let's stick to the topic and not promulgate this declaration of honesty on my person so that I will not need to correct you in the future when you might claim as fact "Caretaker believes..." I suggest "Caretaker writes..." or something similar. What I've said I believe is that fractured rights are even more significant.
(This post was edited by DGHCaretaker on Nov 30 2024, 7:56pm)
|
|
|
Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 1 2024, 9:17pm
Post #80 of 153
(3990 views)
Shortcut
|
|
We must defer to AI - pending evidence that demonstrates she was a warior
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
"Galadriel Not a Warrior
Based on the provided search results, it is clear that Galadriel was not a warrior in J.R.R. Tolkien’s works. Here are some key points that support this conclusion:
Tolkien’s own descriptions: In the search results, Tolkien’s own writings are quoted, such as “they did not join in the war against Angband, which they judged to be hopeless under the ban of the Valar and without their aid” (Unfinished Tales). This indicates that Galadriel and Celeborn chose not to participate in battles against Angband, suggesting they were not warriors.
Galadriel’s role: Galadriel’s primary role was as a wise and powerful Elf-lady, not a warrior. She was known for her beauty, wisdom, and magical abilities, not for her combat prowess.
No explicit warrior depiction: In Tolkien’s published works, such as The Lord of the Rings and The Silmarillion, Galadriel is not depicted as a warrior. There is no description of her engaging in battles or wielding a sword.
Contrast with other Elves: The search results mention that Elves like Beleg and Elrond were warriors, but Galadriel is not associated with this role.
Amazon’s portrayal: The Amazon TV series’ portrayal of Galadriel as a warrior is not consistent with Tolkien’s original depiction. The show’s creators have taken artistic liberties, which do not reflect the character’s true nature as described by Tolkien.
In conclusion, based on Tolkien’s own writings and the provided search results, Galadriel was never a warrior in Middle-earth. Her character was defined by her wisdom, beauty, and magical abilities, not by her combat skills."
Setting aside her martial role...which is relatively small potatoes to the other character assassinations. Yes, she could be fierce and strong willed, but decisions made in ROP are one awful act after another. There is no wisdom and no grace. In ROP she bears responsibility for Sauron infiltrating Eregion. She did not say anything about Sauron during the ring making process. In reality, she never trusted Annatar.but ROP version is a sad fool.
Let us not forget Cheeto Galadriel who lived...along with humans...through a volcanic eruption.
As previously noted, jumping into the ocean.
Being disrespectful to MIriel and acting like a spoiled child.
Putting Halbrand up as a lost king without any real evidence.
Riding with a critically wounded Halbrand cross country for hundreds of miles because he needed elvish healing.
Where is Celeborn?
Playing up the romantic tension with Halbrand i.e. a love interest with Sauron.
Almost executing Adar.
Her relationship with Elrond.....Celebrían was born early in the Second Age, likely in S.A. 300...Sauron came to Eregion around 1200....Celebrian was 900 years old....she was living in Eregion...
Celeborn - Galadriel's husband -, the Lord of Lothlórien, led a sortie from Eregion and drove back the vanguard of Sauron’s host, along with Elrond, during the Sack of Eregion (Source: Tolkien Gateway, “Sack of Eregion”)..
It goes on and on....ego driven fan fiction.
Even if some material was off limits there was no reason to smear her character. They could have written filler material that reflected her known qualities.
|
|
|
Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 1 2024, 11:35pm
Post #81 of 153
(3969 views)
Shortcut
|
"Arguments Against DEI in The Rings of Power
Creative License and Artistic Choices: Some argue that the inclusion of DEI in The Rings of Power sacrifices artistic integrity and creative vision in favor of meeting superficial DEI quotas.
Oversimplification and Tokenism: Forcing DEI into the series may lead to oversimplification and tokenism, where diverse characters are included merely for the sake of appearances, rather than being fully developed and integral to the story.
Historical and Cultural Context: The inclusion of DEI may also undermine the historical and cultural context that informed Tolkien’s work, which was heavily influenced by European mythology and folklore."
We cannot actually dare go into the impact of such policies on this board as it get close to verboten topics. I know it when I see it or hear it and that is enough for me. Your mileage may vary.
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
Dec 1 2024, 11:44pm
Post #82 of 153
(3975 views)
Shortcut
|
Reminder: posts that insult or target other board members will be edited or removed.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Some have been cut already from the discussion thread. Please discuss the topic, and not your perception of another board member's merits or character.
As a reminder, here's the rule from the Terms of Service:
3. Posts containing racial, ethnic, religious, political, sexual or other slurs, personal attacks (on a TORn user or other person) intentional attempts to drive posters away or make them feel unwelcome, or posts made with the purpose of criticizing or insulting another poster will be edited or removed. Continually antagonistic, negative non-discussion will be treated the same way.
Admins are keeping an eye on this discussion thread and we'll lock it to stop the personal attacks if necessary, but we'd prefer that people instead focus on the topic at hand. Ta.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo
My LOTR fan-fiction
|
|
|
DwellerInDale
Nargothrond
Dec 1 2024, 11:56pm
Post #83 of 153
(3964 views)
Shortcut
|
You do understand what an AI does, don't you? It uses a massive amount of data gathered from websites, books, and other sources of information and synthesizes those data to provide an answer or create something. This means that if you give it a query such as "Galadriel was not a warrior", it will predominantly use reference material that suggests that Galadriel was not a warrior. This is completely circular.
So let's give an AI the query "Galadriel was not a warrior":
Now let's give the same AI the query "Was Galadriel a warrior?":
AIs are robots. They can let you see what you want to see.
Don't mess with my favorite female elves.
(This post was edited by DwellerInDale on Dec 1 2024, 11:56pm)
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Dec 1 2024, 11:59pm
Post #84 of 153
(3969 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Evidence that Galadriel was a warrior, a commander, Sauron's main adversary and physically powerful
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
These are all excerpts from Unfinished Tales, though some of them actually come from "The Shibboleth of Feanor" which was more fully published in The Peoples of Middle-earth:
"Her mother-name was Nerwen (‘man-maiden’), 1 and she grew to be tall beyond the measure even of the women of the Noldor; she was strong of body, mind, and will, a match for both the loremasters and the athletes of the Eldar in the days of their youth."
"She was proud, strong, and selfwilled, as were all the descendants of Finwë save Finarfin; and like her brother Finrod, of all her kin the nearest to her heart, she had dreams of far lands and dominions that might be her own to order as she would without tutelage."
"Even after the merciless assault upon the Teleri and the rape of their ships, though she fought fiercely against Fëanor in defense of her mother’s kin, she did not turn back."
"Her pride was unwilling to return, a defeated suppliant for pardon; but now she burned with desire to follow Fëanor with her anger to whatever lands he might come, and to thwart him in all ways that she could. Pride still moved her when, at the end of the Elder Days after the final overthrow of Morgoth, she refused the pardon of the Valar for all who had fought against him, and remained in Middle-earth."
"In this he emphasized the commanding stature of Galadriel already in Valinor, the equal if unlike in endowments of Fëanor; and it is said here that so far from joining in Fëanor’s revolt she was in every way opposed to him. She did indeed wish to depart from Valinor and to go into the wide world of Middle-earth for the exercise of her talents; for ‘being brilliant in mind and swift in action she had early absorbed all of what she was capable of the teaching which the Valar thought fit to give the Eldar’, and she felt confined in the tutelage of Aman"
"In Fëanor’s revolt that followed the Darkening of Valinor Galadriel had no part: indeed she with Celeborn fought heroically in defence of Alqualondë against the assault of the Noldor, and Celeborn’s ship was saved from them."
"In any case, Galadriel was more far-sighted in this than Celeborn; and she perceived from the beginning that Middle-earth could not be saved from ‘the residue of evil’ that Morgoth had left behind him save by a union of all the peoples who were in their way and in their measure opposed to him. She looked upon the Dwarves also with the eye of a commander, seeing in them the finest warriors to pit against the Orcs."
"Galadriel, striving to counteract the machinations of Sauron, was successful in Lórinand;"
"In Eregion Sauron posed as an emissary of the Valar, sent by them to Middle-earth (‘thus anticipating the Istari’) or ordered by them to remain there to give aid to the Elves. He perceived at once that Galadriel would be his chief adversary and obstacle, and he endeavoured therefore to placate her, bearing her scorn with outward patience and courtesy."
"In Lórinand Galadriel took up rule, and defense against Sauron."
"In her wisdom Galadriel saw that Lórien would be a stronghold and point of power to prevent the Shadow from crossing the Anduin in the war that must inevitably come before it was again defeatedi (if that were possible); but that it needed a rule of greater strength and wisdom than the Silvan folk possessed."
In addition, in a passage that was sadly edited by Christopher Tolkien in the published Silmarillion, Galadriel was described in latest edit of the chapter in the Quenta Silmarillion "Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie" as "the most valiant" of the house of Finwe, as well as the most beautiful.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
(This post was edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Dec 2 2024, 12:09am)
|
|
|
Michelle Johnston
Mithlond
Dec 2 2024, 2:22am
Post #85 of 153
(3961 views)
Shortcut
|
Some have been cut already from the discussion thread. Please discuss the topic, and not your perception of another board member's merits or character.
As a reminder, here's the rule from the Terms of Service:
3. Posts containing racial, ethnic, religious, political, sexual or other slurs, personal attacks (on a TORn user or other person) intentional attempts to drive posters away or make them feel unwelcome, or posts made with the purpose of criticizing or insulting another poster will be edited or removed. Continually antagonistic, negative non-discussion will be treated the same way.
Admins are keeping an eye on this discussion thread and we'll lock it to stop the personal attacks if necessary, but we'd prefer that people instead focus on the topic at hand. Ta.
In the end whether we contribute to a forum comes down to whether we enjoy the experience and value it.
I have concluded I do not wish to contribute anymore because of a small number of posters who have either exposed themselves as driven by an agenda and minor psychopathy or deliver posts whose tone are immature and have an exceptionally poor grasp of the subject. One could spend endless hours correcting their falsehoods and lack of understanding. Voronwe above has provided an example of precisely what that involves.
The professor's work is profoundly interesting and a worthy subject of strong, detailed, robust discussion.
The difficulty is some people get confused and waylay themselves with agendas and issues they see in everything and others do not have any grasp of the text or the process of adaption. Criticise something when you understand it.
I am as critical of ROP as anyone but that is not what this is about. It is about the tone and atmosphere of a place where people congregate to share views.
The difficulty with your rules are they allow people to come up very short, be rude about the creative people involved but the minute the lack of understanding, the misrepresentations, the lack of grace and charm is called out, it's considered to break the rules. That creates a space for the ugly and charmless to flourish that the professor would have found deeply regrettable.
It is particularly regrettable to me because there are people here who are clearly inspired by the kind of discussions that CSL and JRRT had.
He cordially disliked the introduction of fare to the tables of his college halls which struck him as not being English but his response to that was to emphasise his Englishness in an amusing way. He did not throw the food in the bin. In other words he found a positive way to make his dislike known.
One can be amusing and light in ones critique, its not necessary for poorly disguised patronising, insults or rants.
For me this is the beginning of Advent a journey from darkness to light a call to leave this forum.
My Dear Bilbo something is the matter with you! you are not the same hobbit that you were.
|
|
|
Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 2 2024, 3:02am
Post #86 of 153
(3947 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Very nice - much depends on what is meant and the context - she was capable - however
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Galadriel never led forces in war....other than as leading with Celeborn in the defense of Lorien and the destruction of Dol Guldur in the 3rd age.
Galadriel is never described taking up arms though it is possible during the KInstrife.
In desperate times, female elves will fight along side the male elves.
That does not mean they are normally counted as warriors and expected to go to war. I am sure dwarven women fought to the death in the fall of Moria and in the fall of Erebor. Eowyn participated as a shield maiden warrior on her own not as a call to muster. Her role was to lead the people while the warriors rode off to Minas Tirith.
Some of this is picking the unfinished tale that supports the claim....at least 3 versions were written with differing elements regarding Galadriel.
Fighting and striving against does not necessarily imply physical action.
Opposing the plans and actions of a foe are often by non-physical influence. Queen Isabella of Spain did not fight the Moors herself.
I don't see anything written that actually indicates she was a commander of elven armies or that she participated in the war against Sauron or Morgoth....until the attacks on Lorien and Dol Guldur in the 3rd age.
I think her power spiritual and physical - was unquestioned but much of that was innate and she probably had little need of actual weapons. I assume her ring amplified her innate ability. In anger she could probably have tossed Isildur across the room and could have run faster and longer in a footrace. She may have been a sure shot with a bow...we don't have any info on that but it is not unreasonable.
After thousands of years almost all elves would probably be masters of many things..music, weapons, singing, poetry etc.
As far as I know none of these sources are available to Amazon.
IF they were allowed to pick and choose then I agree they could have expanded her backstory somewhat...retelling the fight at Aqualonde and her long opposition to the plans of Sauron. IF they wanted a more Amazonian heroin then I think Morfydd Clark was a physical miss.
Galadriel was always more powerful as a presence...wisdom,
She did lead with Celeborn in the defense of Lorien and in destroying Dol Guldur - though both are less likely as frontline warriors.
Her martial prowess is not the major issue in ROP. Her personal decision making has betrayed her wisdom, brilliant mind and leadership plus the lack of whatever "magic" she could call upon. The Galadriel in ROP bears almost no resemblance to the Galadriel described in the snippets other than proud and selfwilled.
The tall, majestic and powerful elven queen in Lothlorien could probe the minds of the fellowship telepathically. No hint of innate power has been revealed.....so far...in ROP.
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 2 2024, 3:04am)
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Dec 2 2024, 5:09am
Post #87 of 153
(3933 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Michelle, I hope you don’t leave this site.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Your contributions are interesting and valuable. This too shall pass. Anyway, discussion of RoP will wane and drop off as the season finale recedes into the past, at least until there is news of a third season.
This is a great site, despite everything. Compared to YouTube for instance, TORN is an island of rationality and civility on the internet, thanks to the TOS and moderators as well as a generally better class of posters. What we just got admonished for is nothing compared to the vicious vitriol that is the norm elsewhere on the internet.
After Season 1 of RoP, a number of the show’s haters apparently left the discussion, as rational people would. In the years since, I started skipping over the contributions of certain other posters, essentially because I saw no value in them, for different reasons. I’ll return to that policy, my own personal Ignore feature. People can post whatever they want. We don’t have to read it.
As for the topic of this thread: no one knows why Amazon has not yet said anything about renewing RoP. All else is speculation.
The sun yet shines
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Dec 2 2024, 6:05am
Post #88 of 153
(3925 views)
Shortcut
|
It’s interesting how Galadriel and her ever changing story received so much attention from Tolkien in his later years when she hardly appears in The Silmarillion.
Payne and McKay have chosen elements of the several versions of Galadriel in Tolkien’s writings and used them as inspiration for a character that suits their story. I very much like that character and think that Morfydd Clark is excellent.
I prefer the flawed and fiery Elves of The Silmarillion, of the First Age and the Second too now, I suppose, to the fading Elves at the end of the Third. As the series began, the driven, fallible and not entirely likeable Galadriel reminds me of those First Age Elves but by the Season 1 finale she was already changing. After her role in the fall of Eregion and her near-death experience, it will be interesting to see where she is as a person in Season 3. By the end of the series, I expect that Galadriel will have evolved into the more familiar version of herself.
If I want to experience the wise and stately Galadriel of LotR, I’ll read the book or watch Jackson’s movies. In RoP, I’m very happy to see a different iteration of the character.
The sun yet shines
|
|
|
Victariongreyjoy
Nargothrond
Dec 2 2024, 9:23am
Post #89 of 153
(3909 views)
Shortcut
|
|
There is something going on behind the scenes.
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I speculate Amazion is negotiate with the Estate for a buy out of the the deal. Maybe they will get to agreement to finish the show with a 3rd season with a extended episodes. The whole arc of Numenor corruption can be done with a few episoes. The War of the Elves and Sauron can be completed in two episodes. It will be rushed, but Tolkien didn't write that much either about it.
|
|
|
Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 2 2024, 10:07pm
Post #90 of 153
(3864 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Of course, it is simply a tool and about as reliable as Wikipedia
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
However, do you dispute the content...pro and con?
(This post was edited by Eruonen on Dec 2 2024, 10:08pm)
|
|
|
DGHCaretaker
Nargothrond
Dec 2 2024, 10:19pm
Post #91 of 153
(3865 views)
Shortcut
|
These are all excerpts from Unfinished Tales
As such, would not Rings of Power be forbidden to use this material?
|
|
|
Felagund
Nargothrond
Dec 2 2024, 11:05pm
Post #92 of 153
(3850 views)
Shortcut
|
I realise that it's the AI talking and not you...!
But this particular AI snapshot still doesn't manage to present how, specifically, DEI made the writing in TRoP bad. There's defo some mediocre, sometimes baffling and poor writing to be had (especially in S1), amidst some very good writing (predominantly found in S2, in my view).
As for this:
Historical and Cultural Context: The inclusion of DEI may also undermine the historical and cultural context that informed Tolkien’s work, which was heavily influenced by European mythology and folklore."
The AI is surely suffering from a bout of lazy trope-trawl. How does a TV show produced in the early decades of the 21st century undermine Tolkien's "historical and cultural context"? If anyone is feeling worried, rest assured, Amazon didn't change a single word of the actual work of JRR Tolkien or his cultural loci. It's all still there, in the books. I checked earlier this evening, as I was also momentarily worried about the possibility of a Bezos-built time machine!
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
Eruonen
Gondolin
Dec 2 2024, 11:21pm
Post #93 of 153
(3845 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The DEI topic is to hot for the board to discuss details
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Any such discussion ends up with accusations of this or that.
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Elvenhome
Dec 3 2024, 1:13am
Post #94 of 153
(3836 views)
Shortcut
|
These are all excerpts from Unfinished Tales As such, would not Rings of Power be forbidden to use this material?
At best, special permission would be needed to use material from Unfinished Tales, unless some under-the-table deal has been made of which we are unaware.
“Hell hath no fury like that of the uninvolved.” - Tony Isabella
(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Dec 3 2024, 1:16am)
|
|
|
Noria
Hithlum
Dec 3 2024, 2:47pm
Post #95 of 153
(3804 views)
Shortcut
|
I seem to recall seeing reporting in the last year or so that Amazon had acquired the right to use some limited additional material outside LotR and The Hobbit. I don’t remember any details, if I ever heard any. Maybe it was just a rumour.
If true, the effects of that would only be felt in Season 3.
The sun yet shines
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Dec 3 2024, 3:08pm
Post #96 of 153
(3803 views)
Shortcut
|
1. It was not my intention to suggestion that they had the rights to specifically use any of that material, none of which is directly used in the show. Rather, I think that the showrunners (who contrary to what many critics including Sørina Higgins and other Tolkien scholars believe are quite familiar with Tolkien's work), are using these various tales of Galadriel's history as inspiration, not as direct sources;
2. What rights they actually have is less than clear. They apparently have some random rights to things not included in the LOTR appendices, as evidenced by their ability to use the name Annatar, which is not included anywhere in that book;
3. Personally, I am no especially enamored with their presentation of Galadriel, not because she is presented as a warrior or commander (which I am fine with) but rather because they fair to capture the "commanding stature of Galadriel already in Valinor, the equal if unlike in endowments of Fëanor." Gil-galad may be the "high king" but Galadriel is the greatest of the Noldor, and she ain't portrayed that way.
4. Yes, the writing is very clunky in places.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Dec 3 2024, 4:41pm
Post #97 of 153
(3791 views)
Shortcut
|
|
The ratio of coffee consumed and typos made
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
One should really wait to post on a message board with a short editing window until one is actually awake.
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
Ataahua
Forum Admin
Dec 3 2024, 5:52pm
Post #98 of 153
(3785 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Nah, live life on the edge. ;)
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
But if you want any typos fixed, make a list and pop it onto Feedback - an admin will be happy to help.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Fantasy novel - The Arcanist's Tattoo
My LOTR fan-fiction
|
|
|
Voronwë_the_Faithful
Doriath
Dec 3 2024, 6:08pm
Post #99 of 153
(3782 views)
Shortcut
|
I'll keep that in mind the next time I do something truly egregious that changes the meaning of what i wrote (like leaving out a "not"). But if it just makes me look a little stupid, it's good for my ego!
'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'
The Hall of Fire
|
|
|
Felagund
Nargothrond
Dec 3 2024, 11:28pm
Post #100 of 153
(3759 views)
Shortcut
|
Awesome to see this all in one collection - thanks for the work you put in!
In the context of your comment below and following on from the Lórien excerpts...
In addition, in a passage that was sadly edited by Christopher Tolkien in the published Silmarillion, Galadriel was described in latest edit of the chapter in the Quenta Silmarillion "Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie" as "the most valiant" of the house of Finwe, as well as the most beautiful.
... I was reminded of this passage, having lately come across it again while listening to Andy Serkis's reading of The Silmarillion ('Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age'):
A queen she [Galadriel] was of the woodland Elves, the wife of Celeborn of Doriath, yet she herself was of the Noldor and remembered the Day before days in Valinor, and she was mightiest and fairest of all the Elves that remained in Middle-earth.
Might and mightiness can have context other than being good at hewing foes with something sharp but Tolkien certainly used it as an adjective in the case of many a warrior.
Similarly to you, I suspect, I'm not thrown by Amazon's adaptation of Galadriel as a warrior and commander of warriors. There are other elements to her adaptation that don't work well, in my view, but this isn't one of them, for me.
Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk
|
|
|
|
|
