No matter how many times we circle round and round this argument my position remains the same - the outrage and criticism of ROP is wildly disproportionate to the actual "lore" changes and story tweaks that we've seen. Jackson and Bakshi and even Rankin/Bass all seem to get a break that ROP doesn't get. THAT'S the centerpoint of my confusion.

Perhaps its not ego OR incompetence.

I think Tolkien's 2nd Age "lore" is incomplete (at least as a narrative) and overly realistic and complicated to make for an accessible mainstream television show. Even The Lord of the Rings required a heck of a lot of simplification to be consumable by "the masses"

We might not agree that Tolkien's works need to be flattened somewhat to succeed in a new medium like film or television - but we should at least be able to agree that Hollywood thinks so.

In that context, I think a lot of the changes make sense - even if they're not necessarily how I would have done things. SOMEthing had to be done.

No matter how many times we circle round and round this argument my position remains the same - the outrage and criticism of ROP is wildly disproportionate to the actual "lore" changes and story tweaks that we've seen. Jackson and Bakshi and even Rankin/Bass all seem to get a break that ROP doesn't get. THAT'S the centerpoint of my confusion.

In all Tolkien adaption you'll find unhappy fans, or fans complaining about lore and fidelity and all the rest of it.

But only with ROP do we have this seemingly iron clad certainty that the show is crap, everyone knows its crap, the intentions of the filmmakers are crap, the sociopolitical machinations of the studio are crap, and the treatment of the fans is crap, and on and on.

Do you not see how this changes gears somewhat from the usual fan reactions? Do you have an explanation for the wildly conspiratorial way the show is talked about? Or the way the REAL intents and hubris of the showrunners is seemingly self-apparent to a wide slice of the internet? A suspiciously similar slice to the other wide slice that seems to hate almost everything that comes out for the same few reasons?
Is it just me?

Could you tell me how casting people of colour affects the story of RoP? I'd really like to know because I hardly noticed the diversity and I'm sure I have my own biases. What specific story points are changed?

Also "Galadriel man-spreading": are you referring to that cover photo of a mail clad Galadriel sitting on a rock with her knees apart and her elbows on her thighs? Like an armoured warrior sitting comfortably? Honestly, I wouldn't expect anyone under 90 to be bothered by that.

I still don't understand why anyone cares what Amazon says.

The main criticism is the destruction of KNOWN characters and their personalities.......Galadriel is chief among them

In Reply To

Eruonen discussed the quite strong component of a poor adaptation that somewhat mitigates my first thought to this question...

For those who don't like my repetition, ignore:

...but what came first out of the gate was DEI, fan-baiting/name-calling as a Marketing tactic, and Galadriel manspreading - nothing about story, story, story. Adaptation (story) had early spy leaks, but political agenda was the first in your face [ref: Superfans]. The agenda wagging the story. I'm not here to support, deny, or proselytize this thesis. Some folks don't like this pointed out, but It's simply what I observed and report. From there everything else has metaphorically rolled downhill. The reaction was started and will not stop. It ran straight into what "the world looks like today" - a massive divide between Left and Right and heavy resistance to "The Message." Hollywood still truly does not seem to understand what it is doing to itself. It (and Disney) actually appears to be tripling down on ideology in the face of failure, as if that is what will fix things, and is in the abyss of denial. It's insane. The recovery, if it's not already too late, is to lead with story, story, story and leave agenda far. far behind. Rings of Power is already a poisoned fruit. It will finish out its scheduled run, but will never be what Amazon dreamed of due to unforced these errors.

In Reply To

You see this is what I find so interesting about your criticism. You base it on your view of the Lore, which is incomplete.

1) The only definitive Galadriel we meet of the professors is in the LOTR, which includes the appendices written statements of her rejecting/being suspicious of Annatar.

2) Every other element of Galadriel is speculation from the vast Silmarillion materials. Those materials, which cover her earlier life, posit her as a warrior fighting at the Kinslaying and rejecting Feanor and leaving for middle earth on her terms. It is entirely clear to me that the show runners, as well as basing her story on her words of rejection about Sauron, were inspired by these speculations of Tolkien.

What is ironic about all this hand ringing is when the professor wrote the Silmarillion and Akallabeth Galadriel did not exist he had to 'wait for it' write her back in afterwards.

The early warrior Galadriel also coincides with his knowledge of Haggard's Ayesha. In her early life she rode with her father's warriors and fought in her back story, much as Galadriel at the Kinslaying.

I am afraid I will not be able to join you in your play room today, I am out hiking and scuba diving. (Humour).

In Reply To

This is a decent example of how Hollywood won't cure the disease (the cause) by arguing the symptoms (the effect). A Project Manager might loosely call this "bikeshedding," which isn't a great analogy but lends to help the understanding.

Is it just me?

"RoP has never been fairly evaluated on its merits, especially by those who couldn't see past the DEI policies. It is certainly a victim of the culture wars."

Sure it has been evaluated and found wanting.
DEI was the fault of ROP.
DEI is the least of the issues.

"RoP is also not the first project damaged or destroyed when the members of a toxic internet culture don't get what they want, don't like what they get or get their feelings hurt by big bad corporations."

No, the audience is the final arbiter.
It is not toxic culture it is Hollywood in general pushing such toxic garbage and it is rejected.......Marvel, Disney, Star Wars...garbage is garbage.

I have never been given one example within ROP of its short comings which relate to DEI by any of you.

In Reply To

DEI (and ESG) is seen as anathema to merit and therefore quality that affects everything down the line, causing an avalanche of criticism about poor choices and writing that buries any production's chances for success. In this view, the disappointment and details you ask for exist not only in the result but also in the potential we'll never see when the agenda comes before the story or merit.

I'll once again clarify that I believe fractured franchise rights are a huge problem ahead even of all that.