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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Reading Room: Hobbit 3rd edition: Edit Log

Grey Havens

Jan 10, 8:36pm

Views: 496
Hobbit 3rd edition

In Reply To
4) No orcs, only goblins. This has me wondering if the LOTR has orcs in it. I'm guessing it does.

The Hobbit second and third edition refer to orcs twice, outside of the sword name. In my opinion, when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit first and second editions, he considered orcs to be greater goblins (in ways). But for the Third edition Hobbit, Tolkien added a note that included an explanation of his ultimate scenario: "orc" and "goblin" denote the same thing.

The external history is fairly detailed, but with respect to Tolkien's very early Book of Lost Tales, Christopher Tolkien notes about "goblin" (index BLT II): "frequently used as alternative term to Orcs () but sometimes apparently distinguished." (while gongs were: "Evil beings, obscurely related to Orcs.")

For The Lord of the Rings Tolkien does not do wholly do away with the word "goblin", but the author-published scenario here reflects the idea noted in The Hobbit third edition.

Tolkien's ultimate notion, in my opinion, works well enough with respect to the two Hobbit references (the second "orc" reference was actually added to the second edition), even though JRRT's mind changed about this while the two descriptions remained as worded.

(This post was edited by Elthir on Jan 10, 8:49pm)

Edit Log:
Post edited by Elthir (Grey Havens) on Jan 10, 8:45pm
Post edited by Elthir (Grey Havens) on Jan 10, 8:47pm
Post edited by Elthir (Grey Havens) on Jan 10, 8:49pm

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