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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: I'm afraid that if you trouble to look beyond internet rubbish like this : Edit Log

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Oct 8 2012, 6:42pm

Views: 3096
I'm afraid that if you trouble to look beyond internet rubbish like this

You will find that raising the dead has been associated with necromancy since before Christ, so not awfully modern. Lucan has a particularly graphic description which may be more illuminating than online occult magazines.

As for the rest, I'm afraid it is mostly not true. "Nigromancy" simply means "Necromancy" (OED) and simply represents a shift in form not meaning.

You argue that the broader meaning of "black magic" is later, but then state that you feel sure that Tolkien intended the more ancient meaning, having already claimed that Tolkien simply meant "black magic".

"They obviously didn't research Tolkien's meaning of the Necromancer which in that day and age was referring to Black Magic/Sorcery Not bringing things back from the dead."

Alas this makes no sense.

As ever when someone puts "in that day and age" it seems to suggest that the author isn't very clear on when that might be. Here there seem to be three possibilities:

At the etymological roots of the word in the 3rd century, by which time records of raising of the dead as part of such processes were already old.

Or within the pseudo-historical traditions of ME in which the raising of the dead featured strongly. You may find it tacky but creatures such as the draugr from Norse sagas were surely familiar to Tolkien and reflected in his own walking dead (the barrow wights).

Or at the time Tolkien was writing where the English usage of the word had included ideas of raising the dead for hundreds of years (e.g. Swift in 1709 - "The General, who was forced to kill his enemies twice over, whom a Necromancer had raised to life")

So I'm afraid the notions that you know what Tolkien intended is, of course, utterly unsupported. You can opine freely, but opinion it is, and the notion that anyone who disagrees hasn't done their research, is patently false.


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Oct 8 2012, 6:43pm)

Edit Log:
Post edited by Lacrimae Rerum (Grey Havens) on Oct 8 2012, 6:43pm

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