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The One Ring Forums:
Tolkien Topics: Reading Room:
Whoa! Great stuff.:
Edit Log
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Ethel Duath
Gondolin
Nov 12 2024, 9:08pm
Views: 6105
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Here goes, probably bit by bit.
1. Is this friendly roasting the sign of a good relationship? Is it a hobbit-ish behavior? Bilbo delivered quite a few snappy lines during his party speech. Is Merry commenting on the relative merits of being a "Baggins" vs a "Brandybuck"?
And " . . . Frodo who seemed to agree with Lobelia that being deemed a 'Brandybuck' is insulting." I always thought that both Frodo and Merry were exchanging mock insults here, Frodo pretending (with maybe a wink) that he's insulted by being called a Brandybuck, and then Merry responding in kind--and also doing all that witty diffusing thing, too, because certainly Lobelia did annoy Frodo in a bunch of ways here, and in the early chapters Merry is consistently the level-headed, practical, mature--if sardonic at times--voice of reason.
With Frodo, being Frodo, and also a good friend of Merry's whom he certainly knew to be a Brandybuck, I find it hard to believe he'd insult his friend by being openly insulted himself by the same name designation.
2. Where exactly is Merry while Gandalf and Frodo are having this conversation? Since he locked the door, presumably he's inside Bag End and could well have heard Gandalf's arrival. Ah, well, I never thought of that! It always seemed to be a private conversation, but I'm not sure it's hard to imagine Merry perhaps listening at the keyhole for a bit, although it's unclear whether he could have heard anything.
3. As hobbits are given to gossip, it was probably fairly easy for Merry et. al to gather intelligence about Frodo. They all knew Bilbo and were surely familiar with his oddities. Were they concerned that Frodo was becoming like Bilbo? It does say that Frodo often wandered off by himself, and sometimes at night, and that Merry and Pippin "suspected that he visited the elves at times, as Bilbo had done." They also would have observed along with "people," as it says, that Frodo was showing the same signs of resistance to aging as Bilbo had. I'm not sure up till now there's any indication that his friends are worried that he's acting and becoming physically a little bit Bilbo-ish. There doesn't to me seem to be any reason to worry, even with those things being so. But the book does say that when Frodo reached the same age that Bilbo had when his adventures began, all the looking at maps and all the wonderings and wanderings, and more and more doing so by himself, seemed to trigger something in his friends since it says they "watched him anxiously."
I'm not really sure why they should be anxious in particular about these changes, as it wasn't likely he was becoming mentally unstable or likely to suddenly do something deliberately risky. But maybe simply because it was a change and that he was withdrawing from them would be enough to make a set of friends anxious, especially if they thought he was likely to disappear on adventures without them. And possibly the "rumors of strange things happening in the world outside," may have added to their worries, in case he in inadvertently wandered right into danger. But it's all pretty unclear.
"What's in a Name": I'm going to group 4, 12, and your last paragraph in here for some thoughts.
4. Why does no-one remember that Merry's name is Meriadoc? Is it just a nickname/pet name, or is something more being suggested? Would going by his given name have obligated Merry to act in a different manner? Is there an identifiable difference between characters who have nicknames/pet names vs those who do not, or have honorific names? Or, like Sharkey and Wormtounge, nasty names? I can't imagine elves having cute names for each other.
I have the impression, although I'm not British, that there is a British or at least an English tradition in that era at least of giving people nicknames, usually starting at school somewhere, and then referring to them by those nicknames for the rest of their lives. (In fact, I wonder if that was a tradition in the English-speaking world in general in the early to mid 20th century. My dad's friend group at college all had nicknames for each other based on the seven dwarves! I won't tell you which one his was, but as he informed my mother all about it over 10 years later at their marriage, I'm thinking those names were still extant to some degree among those friends.  )
Anyway, as an illustration of what it seems to me to be an English nickname tradition, Elgar's Enigma Variations came to mind.
Here's a short quote from Wikipedia about it, and then a link to the actual music if anybody's interested. (It really is a wonderful piece, although nothing to do with this here in particular except about the names.) "Elgar dedicated the piece to 'my friends pictured within' and in the score each variation is prefaced the initials, name or nickname of the friend depicted. As was common with painted portraits of the time, Elgar's musical portraits depict their subjects at two levels. Each movement conveys a general impression of its subject's personality. In addition, many of them contain a musical reference to a specific characteristic or event, such as a laugh, a habit of speech or a memorable conversation."
The music: https://youtu.be/...?feature=shared&t=33
With all of that being said, yes, it's just a nickname, and in the nature of nicknames of that sort, certainly more is being suggested as the nature of someone who is cheery and not easily rattled.
As far as being obligated to act differently if he had to use his proper name, I think it's the other way around. If he had always been referred to by his proper name, he may have been treated differently and therefore would've acted differently especially since there may have been different expectations based on a more formal/ socially distant impression that would've given. Nicknames, being informal, tend to denote close or affectionate relationships; and among adults, those of more or less equal standing. You wouldn't refer either to the electrician or the kitchen maid by a nickname. And that, I think, maybe why Sam doesn't have much of a nickname--but simply a shortening of his proper name, which reflects on number 12, below.
There is an exception, though, which is illustrated by Sharkey and Wormtongue, where subordinates or people of a lower social class mock those above them by the secret use of nicknames just among themselves–never to be mentioned to the actual lord or social superiors. In Wormtongue's case, though, there seems to be an exception to pretty much all of these apparent societal expectations in naming. But it's probably because Wormtongue was an exception to just about anybody's social norms!
12. Sam calls him 'Master Merry', which refers to Merry's standing in the social hierarchy of the Shire. Merry was at Frodo's last birthday party in Bag End with Pippin, Folco and Fatty. And, obvious by no mention, Sam was not. It doesn't seem to bother Sam. Or Merry. Names and titles, unlike the current era, have I think throughout history been powerful indications of status and position, high low or middle, and a powerful way to influence one's own concept of oneself and of course everybody else. The social hierarchy was simply taken for granted, so of course it was "Master Merry" and not "Master Samwise." and that being so, Sam wouldn't have expected to be there, and it wouldn't have bothered Merry because he wouldn't have had any reason to think Sam's feelings would be hurt, since if their places were exchanged, the situation would simply be what he and everyone else expected.
* Off-topic, but I noticed Tom and Goldberry never ask the hobbits' names. Approaching Bree, Frodo says 'the name of Baggins must NOT be mentioned.' It didn't get mentioned to Tom, either, as there were no names offered or requested. But Tom knew about the Ring, and was waiting for Frodo to wander down to OMW, so presumably he knew exactly who Frodo was. Tom gave the ponies new names which they answered to for the rest of their lives. He named Old Man Willow. He told the hobbits the name of Barliman Butterbur at the Prancing Pony. He said: 'Tell me, who are you, alone, yourself and nameless?' Did he know all the hobbits names as well? Was he careful NOT to say any of their names? When Tom names someone or something, is his natural power acting upon them? Well, I simply had never thought or noticed that Tom never called them by name. I had the impression, somehow, that he'd met or had communication from Gandalf at some point sometime, and may have expected Frodo to be wandering around in his vicinity sometime, but I don't see how he could have expected the whole group of them. It does seem really significant that he never calls them by name.
I'm not sure what we are supposed to think about that, but I wish I'd noticed it before, because it can't be an accident. I think you may be onto something, about Things that Tom Names. But as usual with Tolkien, it's not spelled out and we get to sense the mystery rather than having a definite list of magical properties that Tom can do, which really wouldn't be much fun.
More later!
(This post was edited by Ethel Duath on Nov 12 2024, 9:21pm)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:12pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:13pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:13pm
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(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:14pm
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(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:15pm
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(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:16pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:16pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:17pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:17pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:18pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:20pm
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Post edited by Ethel Duath
(Gondolin) on Nov 12 2024, 9:21pm
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