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The One Ring Forums:
Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Oh really?:
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Rowan Greene
Menegroth
Jan 22 2014, 2:38pm
Views: 553
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Why would Thranduil be reduced to a cameo? Why would significant plot elements be lost? Are you suggesting Thranduil's role only exists because of Tauriel or that she's somehow essential for the story to work? None of these scenes would work without Thranduil but Tauriel is superfluous. IMO.
The Elvenking (subsequently named Thranduil by Tolkien) exists in the source material as created by Tolkien, whereas Tauriel is a fabricated character. If any elf should have been fleshed out and featured prominently in TH movies, it was Thranduil.
First, I said nothing about removing Legolas. I'm not sure where you got that. I suggested removing a story arc. Oh, and I'd be happy with the complete removal of the nonessential Tauriel character (as written).
a) Spider conversation: Why do we need Tauriel for this conversation? Legolas could speak to his father about the spiders. Legolas could inhabit her entire role (minus the romance) and bring his father's isolationist policies to light or to challenge him. Legolas is quite old--not to mention a Prince who has his father's ear--and surely he's encountered or heard about other races in his time and the perils facing ME.
b) There's no need to invent some pretext. I quite enjoyed watching Bilbo wander around Rivendell and in this case, he actually has a reason: he's looking for food and an escape route and he's bound to get lost or distracted. While doing so, Bilbo could be drawn in by the "less wise and more dangerous" woodland elves and observe the big feast (while stealing some food) or overhear conversations between Thranduil and his people much as he did in Rivendell. (Wonderinglinguist had a great suggestion with the Lindir equivalent. It makes perfect sense since Thranduil is a King after all.) So how is watching Bilbo formulate an escape plan not moving the plot forward? The dwarves are locked up and it's up to our hero to set them free so they can continue their quest. This was a great chance to infuse some Bilbo humor to include him almost getting caught. I'm not talking hours of footage but a matter of minutes. (I'm not sure how any of that would appear creepy. Speaking of creepy, you have seen the healing scene, right?)
c) Barrels out of Bond: Again, I said nothing about removing Legolas. I don't consider Legolas and Tauriel a package deal. One is canon, one is not. Legolas may not have been in the book but as Thranduil's son, it makes sense for him to be present. Legolas is capable of capturing an orc with another woodland elf. That entire scene could play out just fine without Tauriel's inclusion if Legolas were portrayed as questioning his father's policies. She's superfluous--the scene doesn't hinge on her inclusion. In fact, she was going to kill the orc but Legolas stopped her so they could question it. Any random elf could take her place.
d) The Feast of Starlight: I disagree. This scene is as much about Tauriel (and what drives her actions) as it is about Kili. If not, then I guess you'd be fine with Kili having the same chat with Legolas or another random elf? If it's not romantic in any way, then a male elf would suffice. (Of course, they'd have to adjust how Legolas was portrayed and that would be perfectly fine with me.)
My problem is that this scene focuses the attention onto one dwarf (as I stated previously) when there are others at stake, to include Fili who has also been overlooked thus far. Heck, Kili could have had this conversation with Fili in an adjoining cell for that matter, thus fleshing out both characters. Perhaps have Fili tell Kili he would make sure he kept his promise, no matter what. Legolas could overhear this conversation......
Yes, I do believe there is a "love story" and that it drives Tauriel's actions. It's also a matter of interpretation (and opinion) that a subplot has overshadowed the protagonist. When writing a book, one often weaves in one or two minor subplots but they should never take away from the main protagonist or his/her character arc or feel more prominent or of greater importance.
We have yet to see TABA so it could go one of two ways: the emphasis is placed back on the main protagonists (Bilbo and Thorin) where it belongs, or the non-canon character and her story arc will remain prominent and impact canon character decisions and fates.
I seem to recall a post where you explained how a friend loaned you the Lost DVDs and you saw Lilly climbing around some trees and thought she'd make a great elf. I also seem to recall that you greatly admire the actress. You were then thrilled to hear she'd been cast as Tauriel in TH movies. Where am I going with this? It seems to me that you would love the character regardless of her story arc and for that reason, we're going to have to just agree to disagree.
I personally would have accepted a female elf captain in a background role without an influential/prominent story arc--one that didn't impact canon character story arcs, decisions, behaviour, etc. And one that had no romantic connection to the King's son or a captured dwarf. A strong female who just got the job done.
If the Tauriel scenes in the Woodland Realm were erased, then Thranduil becomes nothing much more than a cameo, and very significant plot elements are potentially lost: - There would be no conversation with Tauriel about the spiders, and thus no revelation of Thranduil's isolationist policies. You would have to invent some pretext for Bilbo to observe Thranduil alone, which would not further the plot in any way and which might look rather creepy.
- Without Tauriel and Legolas the Dwarves wouldn't stand a chance against Bolg and the Orcs, so "Barrels out of Bond" has to be radically changed; thus there is no orc prisoner to be interrogated, and no reason for Thranduil to suspect that the power of Sauron may have risen again.
So instead of three scenes, Thranduil has only the one scene with Thorin, or you invent "something else" to give him more screen time. The reason why we don't see Bilbo do more sneaking around inside the Woodland Realm (which will probably be in the EE) is that it really doesn't further the plot in any way-- he notices the keys, the barrels, the Elves setting aside the keys and getting drunk, and that's enough for the TE. The "Feast of Starlight" scene has less to do with Tauriel than with Kili-- his character needs to be fleshed out, to foreshadow events that occur in TABA. Without this scene and referral to his mother Dis, he's just along for the ride, and his eventual fate has far less impact (as in the book). How can that small subplot overshadow the main plot? If you say that this was some sort of "romance", then that is your own interpretation, regardless of language that anyone has used in interviews and sound bites. The only thing that really counts toward criticism of the movie is the movie, right?
(This post was edited by Rowan Greene on Jan 22 2014, 2:39pm)
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Edit Log:
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Post edited by Rowan Greene
(Menegroth) on Jan 22 2014, 2:39pm
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