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Expand entire thread Sticky: ** Fellowship of the Ring, Book II: ** Book II leaders, 5/17 - 6/14 Brethil 267 3 May 6, 1:01am Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread Sticky: General notice re book discussions and the use of copyrighted materials Ataahua 40337 1 Jun 20 2007, 12:34pm Jump to last post in thread (by Wynnie)

  Sticky: Thread Locked Welcome to the Reading Room (-->Including links to old RR discussions!) Altaira 37969 0 Dec 28 2006, 3:11am Jump to last post in thread (by Altaira)

Sticky: How Best to Contact an Admin for Help Kyriel 32974 0 Mar 31 2009, 10:44pm Jump to last post in thread (by Kyriel)

  Expand entire thread Silmarilion Discussion: Chapter 16 -- "Of Maeglin" Maciliel 13220 380 Jun 16 2013, 10:27am Jump to last post in thread (by noWizardme)

  Expand entire thread Silmarillion Discussion, Chapter 19: Of Beren and Luthien: Love, etc. CuriousG 19448 343 Jul 8 2013, 8:00pm Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread The Fellowship of the Ring Discussion, Chapter Two: The Shadow of the Past Kim 13352 226 Dec 22 2014, 1:11am Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread 'The Fellowship of the Ring' Discussion, Chapter One: A Long-Expected Party Rembrethil 24390 186 Dec 17 2014, 2:33pm Jump to last post in thread (by Rembrethil)

  Expand entire thread The Numenorean Kingdoms, part XI - bridge-film material? sador 22875 182 Feb 8 2009, 9:47pm Jump to last post in thread (by simplyaven)

  Expand entire thread Reading Room Culture Dreamdeer 24209 177 Mar 19 2009, 9:38pm Jump to last post in thread (by Idril Celebrindal)

  Expand entire thread The Tale of Years (Appendix B): Part I ľ The 2nd Age, 1 -1600 Morthoron 6453 160 Mar 15 2009, 9:15pm Jump to last post in thread (by Eowyn of Penns Woods)

  Expand entire thread need help filling in some blanks please (First Age, Elros, Elrond, Gil-galad, etc.) erynion 11595 159 Jun 9 2013, 9:36am Jump to last post in thread (by wildespace)

  Collapse Do Elves have free will? visualweasel 2690 156 Aug 21 2008, 3:53pm Jump to last post in thread (by visualweasel)
       Collapse Could you provide some ground rules? FarFromHome 2134 3 Aug 21 2008, 5:18pm
           Collapse Yes, good questions! visualweasel 2149 2 Aug 21 2008, 5:52pm
               Collapse I say "Tolkien and Free Will" is very popular this year a.s. 2046 1 Aug 22 2008, 11:16am
                   Those sound interesting, but no. visualweasel 2028 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:55pm
       Collapse Mandos and Aule Dreamdeer 2102 7 Aug 21 2008, 9:53pm
           Collapse Yes, yes, I agree. visualweasel 2095 6 Aug 21 2008, 10:05pm
               Collapse Yes. Elizabeth 2041 1 Aug 22 2008, 4:16am
                   Indeed. FarFromHome 2045 0 Aug 22 2008, 12:26pm
               Collapse why does "fairness" enter the argument? a.s. 1922 3 Aug 23 2008, 12:25pm
                   The "fairness" relates to moral responsibility FarFromHome 1860 0 Aug 23 2008, 3:44pm
                   Collapse Hell Dreamdeer 1944 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:36pm
                       "allowed for the possibility of Hell", then a.s. 1872 0 Aug 23 2008, 6:19pm
       No. But I will have to get to this later. a.s. 2111 0 Aug 21 2008, 10:18pm
       Collapse Would anyone have thought to ask this question before 1977? N.E. Brigand 2097 3 Aug 21 2008, 11:05pm
           Collapse Good point! visualweasel 2091 2 Aug 22 2008, 2:06pm
               Gimli Dreamdeer 2116 0 Aug 22 2008, 4:59pm
               free will implies the ability to sin a.s. 1897 0 Aug 23 2008, 12:45pm
       Collapse I have long argued ... VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 2147 4 Aug 21 2008, 11:54pm
           Collapse The Great Tolkienic Contradiction Conspiracy... Morthoron 2244 1 Aug 22 2008, 1:12am
               Fickle Finger of Fate Dreamdeer 2041 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:46am
           yes, and the answer is more complex, too a.s. 2012 0 Aug 22 2008, 10:57am
           I simply can't help myself ... visualweasel 2160 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:09pm
       Collapse There is no answer, of course Beren IV 2073 12 Aug 22 2008, 1:58am
           Collapse Be careful... Aelfwine 2080 4 Aug 22 2008, 2:42am
               Yes, this is one of the most central issues visualweasel 1989 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:51pm
               Collapse Peter Kreeft, in his book The Philosophy of Tolkien ElanorTX 1885 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:25am
                   Machine stories Aelfwine 1873 0 Aug 23 2008, 2:02pm
               *if* there is free will for any created being, then a.s. 1876 0 Aug 23 2008, 12:36pm
           Collapse The Big But... Morthoron 2027 4 Aug 22 2008, 2:48am
               Collapse So what does 'fading' mean? Beren IV 2023 3 Aug 22 2008, 7:25am
                   Collapse Fading and will? Dreamdeer 2109 2 Aug 22 2008, 4:46pm
                       Collapse Limited free will Beren IV 1893 1 Aug 23 2008, 1:59am
                           What you would have done Elizabeth 1868 0 Aug 23 2008, 4:33am
           Collapse Not so, actually: Aelfwine 2120 1 Aug 22 2008, 2:55am
               Have You Seen It? VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 2042 0 Aug 22 2008, 6:35am
       Collapse Was Flieger's Basic Thesis Different Than What She Previously Has Said? VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 2037 33 Aug 22 2008, 2:06pm
           Collapse I don't think so; however a.s. 1931 32 Aug 22 2008, 9:44pm
               Collapse Did you believe it before reading "The Silmarillion"? N.E. Brigand 1948 31 Aug 22 2008, 9:56pm
                   I never even thought about it prior to that a.s. 1972 0 Aug 22 2008, 10:15pm
                   Collapse Why Does It Matter VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 1903 29 Aug 22 2008, 10:47pm
                       Collapse "There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made." N.E. Brigand 1910 28 Aug 22 2008, 11:43pm
                           Collapse Apart from Il˙vitar's underlying plan... Beren IV 1920 2 Aug 23 2008, 2:14am
                               Collapse Predictions are not requirements. Elizabeth 1871 1 Aug 23 2008, 5:03am
                                   Turin's Curse Dreamdeer 1836 0 Aug 23 2008, 4:15pm
                           Collapse The works in question were in existence when LOTR was published VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 1915 24 Aug 23 2008, 2:59am
                               By 1952, Tolkien knew that "The Silmarillion" wouldn't be published. N.E. Brigand 1889 0 Aug 23 2008, 5:18am
                               Collapse We're arguing over "canon" Beren IV 1860 22 Aug 23 2008, 7:06pm
                                   Collapse Alrighty then... Morthoron 1921 11 Aug 23 2008, 10:47pm
                                       Collapse Post-script... Morthoron 1845 1 Aug 23 2008, 11:05pm
                                           Beren N.E. Brigand 1840 0 Aug 23 2008, 11:08pm
                                       Collapse No canon. N.E. Brigand 1855 5 Aug 23 2008, 11:12pm
                                           Collapse Hmmm... Morthoron 1864 4 Aug 23 2008, 11:43pm
                                               Collapse I agree with your premise... Dreamdeer 1890 2 Aug 24 2008, 1:33am
                                                   Collapse Aragorn said that!?!?! Samamir 1846 1 Aug 24 2008, 1:43am
                                                       Cut for a reason? Dreamdeer 1863 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:47am
                                               To whom are you responding? N.E. Brigand 1793 0 Aug 24 2008, 7:00am
                                       Collapse "Not canonical" does not mean apocryphal. Beren IV 1863 1 Aug 24 2008, 12:53am
                                           I disagree... Morthoron 1829 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:47am
                                       And even LotR was fluid. Dreamdeer 1843 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:28am
                                   FWIW, _I'm_ not arguing over canon Aelfwine 1830 0 Aug 24 2008, 2:04am
                                   Collapse I'm confused. What is "canon" and what is it good for? squire 1848 8 Aug 24 2008, 3:11am
                                       Not only that... FarFromHome 1802 0 Aug 24 2008, 7:32am
                                       Collapse Except that this question Beren IV 1804 6 Aug 24 2008, 8:24am
                                           Collapse Fade to Black (or Dark Elves)... Morthoron 1882 4 Aug 24 2008, 9:10am
                                               Ah. N.E. Brigand 1777 0 Aug 24 2008, 4:22pm
                                               Collapse FŰanor's destiny Beren IV 1786 2 Aug 24 2008, 6:45pm
                                                   Collapse Well... Morthoron 1890 1 Aug 24 2008, 7:31pm
                                                       I have to agree in general Beren IV 1833 0 Aug 24 2008, 8:45pm
                                           I suppose you are right. squire 1795 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:55pm
       Collapse free will and other runimations a.s. 1916 4 Aug 23 2008, 11:36am
           Collapse Constrained by the Music Aelfwine 2194 3 Aug 23 2008, 1:46pm
               Collapse *if* free will, by definition, a.s. 2025 2 Aug 23 2008, 2:38pm
                   Collapse Are you defining "free will" FarFromHome 1841 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:16pm
                       yes, and no a.s. 1860 0 Aug 23 2008, 6:37pm
       Collapse Why does it matter? // N.E. Brigand 1837 21 Aug 23 2008, 11:14pm
           Collapse To the Elves? Or to us? a.s. 1812 20 Aug 24 2008, 3:48am
               Collapse What rhymes with Hostetter? N.E. Brigand 1871 19 Aug 24 2008, 9:54pm
                   Hmmm...Hostetter? Morthoron 1836 0 Aug 24 2008, 11:19pm
                   Collapse LOL! Aelfwine 1852 10 Aug 24 2008, 11:42pm
                       Collapse Ode dear! Morthoron 1890 9 Aug 25 2008, 4:15am
                           LOL!!! Aelfwine 1849 0 Aug 25 2008, 4:20am
                           Brilliant!! // a.s. 1791 0 Aug 25 2008, 11:15am
                           Now that impressed me! // Dreamdeer 1788 0 Aug 25 2008, 1:38pm
                           A triumphal note in an otherwise endless (but still fun) debate! visualweasel 1825 0 Aug 25 2008, 3:03pm
                           Come on, now you're just being silly, Beren IV 1794 0 Aug 25 2008, 4:45pm
                           Collapse How did I end up in the Reading Room? Magpie 1801 2 Aug 26 2008, 1:20am
                               Collapse The Dark Elf bows... Morthoron 1769 1 Aug 26 2008, 1:57am
                                   *applauds* Peredhil lover 1752 0 Aug 26 2008, 5:50am
                           *applause* Well done! // dernwyn 1768 0 Aug 26 2008, 2:23am
                   Collapse picks up the gauntlet a.s. 1950 6 Aug 25 2008, 12:47am
                       Collapse LOL! (nt) Aelfwine 1833 5 Aug 25 2008, 1:32am
                           Collapse ack!!! Only I would mis-spell a word in a post about linguistics! Help, admins a.s. 1847 4 Aug 25 2008, 1:42am
                               Collapse Ah, magic! dernwyn 1759 3 Aug 26 2008, 2:21am
                                   Collapse no, NEB has not posted his winning entry a.s. 1759 2 Aug 26 2008, 10:59am
                                       Collapse It's not N.E. Brigand 1841 1 Aug 27 2008, 9:30pm
                                           oh stop! It won because it was funny, it was topical a.s. 1808 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:09pm
       Collapse Do Men? Darkstone 1764 55 Aug 26 2008, 2:02pm
           Collapse Wyrd and Fate visualweasel 1771 51 Aug 26 2008, 2:19pm
               Collapse But... Darkstone 1744 50 Aug 26 2008, 3:26pm
                   Collapse No buts ... visualweasel 1764 49 Aug 26 2008, 3:29pm
                       Collapse Yes but a.s. 1827 27 Aug 26 2008, 10:21pm
                           Collapse It would be, but ... visualweasel 1811 26 Aug 26 2008, 10:24pm
                               Collapse I did not say "in Tolkien's legendarium" a.s. 1832 23 Aug 26 2008, 10:42pm
                                   Collapse Well, if you're going to bring the Primary World into this ... :) visualweasel 1808 22 Aug 27 2008, 12:10am
                                       Collapse I officially wash my hands of this discussion. Beren IV 1797 3 Aug 27 2008, 12:48am
                                           Collapse I wouldn't say that. N.E. Brigand 1790 1 Aug 27 2008, 3:21am
                                               Good point! visualweasel 1772 0 Aug 27 2008, 1:45pm
                                           On the contrary! Dreamdeer 1770 0 Aug 27 2008, 4:16pm
                                       Collapse I am going to try this one more time a.s. 1875 17 Aug 27 2008, 11:36am
                                           Getting frustrated? I'm sorry about that ... visualweasel 1791 0 Aug 27 2008, 2:00pm
                                           Collapse This is a sticking point for me... FarFromHome 1786 4 Aug 27 2008, 2:07pm
                                               Collapse Regarding Catholic Teaching... Dreamdeer 1776 2 Aug 27 2008, 4:23pm
                                                   Collapse Maybe but... FarFromHome 1768 1 Aug 27 2008, 5:01pm
                                                       I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to define "free will" a.s. 1763 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:30pm
                                               That was what I thought was meant by... a.s. 1755 0 Aug 27 2008, 5:57pm
                                           Collapse The way in which the Elves arguably do not have free will, then, Beren IV 1751 4 Aug 27 2008, 6:22pm
                                               Collapse if Elves do not, in fact, exist after Arda ceases to exist then, yes, they do not have free will by my definition of free will. a.s. 1768 3 Aug 27 2008, 6:40pm
                                                   Ah, but what about the Outer Darkness? Dreamdeer 2017 0 Aug 27 2008, 7:44pm
                                                   Yes, but there is always a Tolkienic contradiction... Morthoron 1836 0 Aug 27 2008, 9:35pm
                                                   My understanding was Beren IV 1892 0 Aug 28 2008, 2:41am
                                           Collapse That's quite helpful. N.E. Brigand 1851 5 Aug 27 2008, 6:48pm
                                               Collapse I don't think that's an accurate definition of Free Will from the Church's perspective. Aelfwine 1975 4 Aug 27 2008, 9:37pm
                                                   Collapse OK, I can accept that a.s. 1812 3 Aug 27 2008, 9:50pm
                                                       Collapse But, what we really need to decide once and for all... Morthoron 1812 2 Aug 27 2008, 10:27pm
                                                           Collapse And are they *free* to use them? ;) // visualweasel 1814 1 Aug 27 2008, 10:28pm
                                                               Or better, do they have the free will to use them? Morthoron 1805 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:29pm
                               Collapse Men, Elves and the Music VoronwŰ_the_Faithful 1822 1 Aug 26 2008, 11:03pm
                                   That is exactly what I have been saying a.s. 1829 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:55am
                       Collapse Yes buts. Elves have free will. Darkstone 1803 20 Aug 27 2008, 6:02pm
                           Collapse Although Galadriel's fall Beren IV 1784 5 Aug 27 2008, 6:17pm
                               Collapse The most sinful Elves Darkstone 1775 4 Aug 27 2008, 6:33pm
                                   Collapse So what did the three 'C's look like? Beren IV 1846 3 Aug 27 2008, 6:42pm
                                       Probably still pretty fair. Darkstone 1852 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:58pm
                                       Collapse Yes and No Dreamdeer 1892 1 Aug 27 2008, 8:15pm
                                           What a lovely image visualweasel 1837 0 Aug 27 2008, 9:15pm
                           Well said, and I agree. // visualweasel 1762 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:24pm
                           Collapse if they cannot go to Hell, they do not have free will a.s. 1844 12 Aug 27 2008, 6:54pm
                               Collapse So do The Elect have free will? Darkstone 1969 3 Aug 27 2008, 7:33pm
                                   Collapse I don't know. I think so, but a.s. 1969 2 Aug 27 2008, 11:23pm
                                       Collapse Please don't be so hard on yourself, "a.s."! Aelfwine 1812 1 Aug 28 2008, 12:00am
                                           You are a nice guy, aelf :-) a.s. 1796 0 Aug 28 2008, 12:18am
                               Collapse I disagree fundamentally, but we can still be friends :) visualweasel 1852 1 Aug 27 2008, 9:27pm
                                   it would depend upon how you define free will a.s. 1796 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:42pm
                               Collapse Angels in the apocrypha Beren IV 1778 5 Aug 28 2008, 2:45am
                                   Collapse The Dark Elf recalls his Catholic education... Morthoron 1791 4 Aug 28 2008, 3:51am
                                       Collapse Er... Aelfwine 1926 3 Aug 28 2008, 12:37pm
                                           Collapse To elucidate... Morthoron 1839 2 Aug 28 2008, 4:09pm
                                               Collapse You were quite clear. Aelfwine 1942 1 Aug 28 2008, 6:59pm
                                                   Let's agree to disagree then... Morthoron 1795 0 Aug 28 2008, 9:54pm
           Collapse Aragorn did have free will. Dreamdeer 1792 2 Aug 26 2008, 3:26pm
               Collapse And THAT is the point I've been trying to make! Beren IV 1834 1 Aug 26 2008, 7:38pm
                   Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more... Morthoron 2021 0 Aug 26 2008, 10:06pm
       Collapse It depends on your perspective. Curious 1537 3 Mar 22 2009, 5:17pm
           Collapse If I understand you, then I disagree :) visualweasel 1546 2 Mar 23 2009, 2:00pm
               Collapse I misspoke. Curious 1539 1 Mar 23 2009, 3:15pm
                   Agreed! :) // visualweasel 1742 0 Mar 23 2009, 3:18pm

  Expand entire thread **Unfinished Tales Discussion - Disaster of the Gladden Fields noWizardme 16281 154 Mar 6 2014, 8:28am Jump to last post in thread (by Plurmo)

  Expand entire thread It's Tolkien Reading Day! Post your ABCs of Tolkien here. N.E. Brigand 57046 148 Apr 4 2010, 7:52pm Jump to last post in thread (by Compa_Mighty)

  Expand entire thread Volunteers for next few Silmarillion chapters? CuriousG 2505 141 Apr 18 2013, 10:52am Jump to last post in thread (by Maciliel)

  Expand entire thread **CoH Discussion** I. The Childhood of T˙rin: 1. Ancestry squire 8921 134 Jun 28 2007, 5:47am Jump to last post in thread (by Daughter of Nienna)

  Expand entire thread Silmarillion Chapter 13: Of the Return of the Noldor Brethil 10099 132 May 22 2013, 1:10pm Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread Some confusing (to me) issues about the Power(s) of the Ring and Isildur Brethil 11655 129 Apr 3 2013, 6:04pm Jump to last post in thread (by CuriousG)
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