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  Expand entire thread Sticky: Tolkien @ UVM Istar Indigo 884 7 Aug 9, 3:46am Jump to last post in thread (by Rembrethil)

  Expand entire thread Sticky: General notice re book discussions and the use of copyrighted materials Ataahua 35722 1 Jun 20 2007, 12:34pm Jump to last post in thread (by Wynnie)

  Sticky: Thread Locked Welcome to the Reading Room (-->Including links to old RR discussions!) Altaira 33586 0 Dec 28 2006, 3:11am Jump to last post in thread (by Altaira)

Sticky: How Best to Contact an Admin for Help Kyriel 28813 0 Mar 31 2009, 10:44pm Jump to last post in thread (by Kyriel)

  Expand entire thread Silmarilion Discussion: Chapter 16 -- "Of Maeglin" Maciliel 7509 380 Jun 16 2013, 10:27am Jump to last post in thread (by noWizardme)

  Expand entire thread Silmarillion Discussion, Chapter 19: Of Beren and Luthien: Love, etc. CuriousG 8969 343 Jul 8 2013, 8:00pm Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread The Numenorean Kingdoms, part XI - bridge-film material? sador 8590 182 Feb 8 2009, 9:47pm Jump to last post in thread (by simplyaven)

  Expand entire thread Reading Room Culture Dreamdeer 10946 177 Mar 19 2009, 9:38pm Jump to last post in thread (by Idril Celebrindal)

  Expand entire thread The Tale of Years (Appendix B): Part I – The 2nd Age, 1 -1600 Morthoron 5394 160 Mar 15 2009, 9:15pm Jump to last post in thread (by Eowyn of Penns Woods)

  Expand entire thread need help filling in some blanks please (First Age, Elros, Elrond, Gil-galad, etc.) erynion 9997 159 Jun 9 2013, 9:36am Jump to last post in thread (by wildespace)

  Collapse Do Elves have free will? visualweasel 1880 156 Aug 21 2008, 3:53pm Jump to last post in thread (by visualweasel)
       Collapse Could you provide some ground rules? FarFromHome 1368 3 Aug 21 2008, 5:18pm
           Collapse Yes, good questions! visualweasel 1375 2 Aug 21 2008, 5:52pm
               Collapse I say "Tolkien and Free Will" is very popular this year a.s. 1280 1 Aug 22 2008, 11:16am
                   Those sound interesting, but no. visualweasel 1255 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:55pm
       Collapse Mandos and Aule Dreamdeer 1340 7 Aug 21 2008, 9:53pm
           Collapse Yes, yes, I agree. visualweasel 1332 6 Aug 21 2008, 10:05pm
               Collapse Yes. Elizabeth 1269 1 Aug 22 2008, 4:16am
                   Indeed. FarFromHome 1267 0 Aug 22 2008, 12:26pm
               Collapse why does "fairness" enter the argument? a.s. 1185 3 Aug 23 2008, 12:25pm
                   The "fairness" relates to moral responsibility FarFromHome 1127 0 Aug 23 2008, 3:44pm
                   Collapse Hell Dreamdeer 1200 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:36pm
                       "allowed for the possibility of Hell", then a.s. 1155 0 Aug 23 2008, 6:19pm
       No. But I will have to get to this later. a.s. 1336 0 Aug 21 2008, 10:18pm
       Collapse Would anyone have thought to ask this question before 1977? N.E. Brigand 1328 3 Aug 21 2008, 11:05pm
           Collapse Good point! visualweasel 1309 2 Aug 22 2008, 2:06pm
               Gimli Dreamdeer 1381 0 Aug 22 2008, 4:59pm
               free will implies the ability to sin a.s. 1154 0 Aug 23 2008, 12:45pm
       Collapse I have long argued ... Voronwë_the_Faithful 1380 4 Aug 21 2008, 11:54pm
           Collapse The Great Tolkienic Contradiction Conspiracy... Morthoron 1469 1 Aug 22 2008, 1:12am
               Fickle Finger of Fate Dreamdeer 1280 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:46am
           yes, and the answer is more complex, too a.s. 1238 0 Aug 22 2008, 10:57am
           I simply can't help myself ... visualweasel 1398 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:09pm
       Collapse There is no answer, of course Beren IV 1298 12 Aug 22 2008, 1:58am
           Collapse Be careful... Aelfwine 1315 4 Aug 22 2008, 2:42am
               Yes, this is one of the most central issues visualweasel 1225 0 Aug 22 2008, 2:51pm
               Collapse Peter Kreeft, in his book The Philosophy of Tolkien ElanorTX 1144 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:25am
                   Machine stories Aelfwine 1139 0 Aug 23 2008, 2:02pm
               *if* there is free will for any created being, then a.s. 1133 0 Aug 23 2008, 12:36pm
           Collapse The Big But... Morthoron 1267 4 Aug 22 2008, 2:48am
               Collapse So what does 'fading' mean? Beren IV 1253 3 Aug 22 2008, 7:25am
                   Collapse Fading and will? Dreamdeer 1373 2 Aug 22 2008, 4:46pm
                       Collapse Limited free will Beren IV 1159 1 Aug 23 2008, 1:59am
                           What you would have done Elizabeth 1138 0 Aug 23 2008, 4:33am
           Collapse Not so, actually: Aelfwine 1356 1 Aug 22 2008, 2:55am
               Have You Seen It? Voronwë_the_Faithful 1276 0 Aug 22 2008, 6:35am
       Collapse Was Flieger's Basic Thesis Different Than What She Previously Has Said? Voronwë_the_Faithful 1274 33 Aug 22 2008, 2:06pm
           Collapse I don't think so; however a.s. 1187 32 Aug 22 2008, 9:44pm
               Collapse Did you believe it before reading "The Silmarillion"? N.E. Brigand 1207 31 Aug 22 2008, 9:56pm
                   I never even thought about it prior to that a.s. 1235 0 Aug 22 2008, 10:15pm
                   Collapse Why Does It Matter Voronwë_the_Faithful 1170 29 Aug 22 2008, 10:47pm
                       Collapse "There isn't time to dig trenches. We'll have to buy them ready made." N.E. Brigand 1176 28 Aug 22 2008, 11:43pm
                           Collapse Apart from Ilúvitar's underlying plan... Beren IV 1178 2 Aug 23 2008, 2:14am
                               Collapse Predictions are not requirements. Elizabeth 1135 1 Aug 23 2008, 5:03am
                                   Turin's Curse Dreamdeer 1109 0 Aug 23 2008, 4:15pm
                           Collapse The works in question were in existence when LOTR was published Voronwë_the_Faithful 1172 24 Aug 23 2008, 2:59am
                               By 1952, Tolkien knew that "The Silmarillion" wouldn't be published. N.E. Brigand 1157 0 Aug 23 2008, 5:18am
                               Collapse We're arguing over "canon" Beren IV 1160 22 Aug 23 2008, 7:06pm
                                   Collapse Alrighty then... Morthoron 1212 11 Aug 23 2008, 10:47pm
                                       Collapse Post-script... Morthoron 1144 1 Aug 23 2008, 11:05pm
                                           Beren N.E. Brigand 1136 0 Aug 23 2008, 11:08pm
                                       Collapse No canon. N.E. Brigand 1149 5 Aug 23 2008, 11:12pm
                                           Collapse Hmmm... Morthoron 1161 4 Aug 23 2008, 11:43pm
                                               Collapse I agree with your premise... Dreamdeer 1184 2 Aug 24 2008, 1:33am
                                                   Collapse Aragorn said that!?!?! Samamir 1133 1 Aug 24 2008, 1:43am
                                                       Cut for a reason? Dreamdeer 1154 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:47am
                                               To whom are you responding? N.E. Brigand 1092 0 Aug 24 2008, 7:00am
                                       Collapse "Not canonical" does not mean apocryphal. Beren IV 1152 1 Aug 24 2008, 12:53am
                                           I disagree... Morthoron 1119 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:47am
                                       And even LotR was fluid. Dreamdeer 1128 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:28am
                                   FWIW, _I'm_ not arguing over canon Aelfwine 1124 0 Aug 24 2008, 2:04am
                                   Collapse I'm confused. What is "canon" and what is it good for? squire 1145 8 Aug 24 2008, 3:11am
                                       Not only that... FarFromHome 1095 0 Aug 24 2008, 7:32am
                                       Collapse Except that this question Beren IV 1104 6 Aug 24 2008, 8:24am
                                           Collapse Fade to Black (or Dark Elves)... Morthoron 1175 4 Aug 24 2008, 9:10am
                                               Ah. N.E. Brigand 1074 0 Aug 24 2008, 4:22pm
                                               Collapse Fëanor's destiny Beren IV 1078 2 Aug 24 2008, 6:45pm
                                                   Collapse Well... Morthoron 1199 1 Aug 24 2008, 7:31pm
                                                       I have to agree in general Beren IV 1149 0 Aug 24 2008, 8:45pm
                                           I suppose you are right. squire 1086 0 Aug 24 2008, 1:55pm
       Collapse free will and other runimations a.s. 1173 4 Aug 23 2008, 11:36am
           Collapse Constrained by the Music Aelfwine 1436 3 Aug 23 2008, 1:46pm
               Collapse *if* free will, by definition, a.s. 1290 2 Aug 23 2008, 2:38pm
                   Collapse Are you defining "free will" FarFromHome 1107 1 Aug 23 2008, 4:16pm
                       yes, and no a.s. 1148 0 Aug 23 2008, 6:37pm
       Collapse Why does it matter? // N.E. Brigand 1134 21 Aug 23 2008, 11:14pm
           Collapse To the Elves? Or to us? a.s. 1105 20 Aug 24 2008, 3:48am
               Collapse What rhymes with Hostetter? N.E. Brigand 1188 19 Aug 24 2008, 9:54pm
                   Hmmm...Hostetter? Morthoron 1145 0 Aug 24 2008, 11:19pm
                   Collapse LOL! Aelfwine 1156 10 Aug 24 2008, 11:42pm
                       Collapse Ode dear! Morthoron 1199 9 Aug 25 2008, 4:15am
                           LOL!!! Aelfwine 1159 0 Aug 25 2008, 4:20am
                           Brilliant!! // a.s. 1104 0 Aug 25 2008, 11:15am
                           Now that impressed me! // Dreamdeer 1106 0 Aug 25 2008, 1:38pm
                           A triumphal note in an otherwise endless (but still fun) debate! visualweasel 1132 0 Aug 25 2008, 3:03pm
                           Come on, now you're just being silly, Beren IV 1100 0 Aug 25 2008, 4:45pm
                           Collapse How did I end up in the Reading Room? Magpie 1101 2 Aug 26 2008, 1:20am
                               Collapse The Dark Elf bows... Morthoron 1088 1 Aug 26 2008, 1:57am
                                   *applauds* Peredhil lover 1062 0 Aug 26 2008, 5:50am
                           *applause* Well done! // dernwyn 1074 0 Aug 26 2008, 2:23am
                   Collapse picks up the gauntlet a.s. 1254 6 Aug 25 2008, 12:47am
                       Collapse LOL! (nt) Aelfwine 1142 5 Aug 25 2008, 1:32am
                           Collapse ack!!! Only I would mis-spell a word in a post about linguistics! Help, admins a.s. 1155 4 Aug 25 2008, 1:42am
                               Collapse Ah, magic! dernwyn 1072 3 Aug 26 2008, 2:21am
                                   Collapse no, NEB has not posted his winning entry a.s. 1062 2 Aug 26 2008, 10:59am
                                       Collapse It's not N.E. Brigand 1141 1 Aug 27 2008, 9:30pm
                                           oh stop! It won because it was funny, it was topical a.s. 1111 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:09pm
       Collapse Do Men? Darkstone 1068 55 Aug 26 2008, 2:02pm
           Collapse Wyrd and Fate visualweasel 1074 51 Aug 26 2008, 2:19pm
               Collapse But... Darkstone 1060 50 Aug 26 2008, 3:26pm
                   Collapse No buts ... visualweasel 1069 49 Aug 26 2008, 3:29pm
                       Collapse Yes but a.s. 1129 27 Aug 26 2008, 10:21pm
                           Collapse It would be, but ... visualweasel 1114 26 Aug 26 2008, 10:24pm
                               Collapse I did not say "in Tolkien's legendarium" a.s. 1126 23 Aug 26 2008, 10:42pm
                                   Collapse Well, if you're going to bring the Primary World into this ... :) visualweasel 1112 22 Aug 27 2008, 12:10am
                                       Collapse I officially wash my hands of this discussion. Beren IV 1104 3 Aug 27 2008, 12:48am
                                           Collapse I wouldn't say that. N.E. Brigand 1092 1 Aug 27 2008, 3:21am
                                               Good point! visualweasel 1078 0 Aug 27 2008, 1:45pm
                                           On the contrary! Dreamdeer 1074 0 Aug 27 2008, 4:16pm
                                       Collapse I am going to try this one more time a.s. 1168 17 Aug 27 2008, 11:36am
                                           Getting frustrated? I'm sorry about that ... visualweasel 1082 0 Aug 27 2008, 2:00pm
                                           Collapse This is a sticking point for me... FarFromHome 1083 4 Aug 27 2008, 2:07pm
                                               Collapse Regarding Catholic Teaching... Dreamdeer 1078 2 Aug 27 2008, 4:23pm
                                                   Collapse Maybe but... FarFromHome 1065 1 Aug 27 2008, 5:01pm
                                                       I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to define "free will" a.s. 1063 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:30pm
                                               That was what I thought was meant by... a.s. 1059 0 Aug 27 2008, 5:57pm
                                           Collapse The way in which the Elves arguably do not have free will, then, Beren IV 1059 4 Aug 27 2008, 6:22pm
                                               Collapse if Elves do not, in fact, exist after Arda ceases to exist then, yes, they do not have free will by my definition of free will. a.s. 1062 3 Aug 27 2008, 6:40pm
                                                   Ah, but what about the Outer Darkness? Dreamdeer 1323 0 Aug 27 2008, 7:44pm
                                                   Yes, but there is always a Tolkienic contradiction... Morthoron 1140 0 Aug 27 2008, 9:35pm
                                                   My understanding was Beren IV 1203 0 Aug 28 2008, 2:41am
                                           Collapse That's quite helpful. N.E. Brigand 1154 5 Aug 27 2008, 6:48pm
                                               Collapse I don't think that's an accurate definition of Free Will from the Church's perspective. Aelfwine 1271 4 Aug 27 2008, 9:37pm
                                                   Collapse OK, I can accept that a.s. 1115 3 Aug 27 2008, 9:50pm
                                                       Collapse But, what we really need to decide once and for all... Morthoron 1116 2 Aug 27 2008, 10:27pm
                                                           Collapse And are they *free* to use them? ;) // visualweasel 1126 1 Aug 27 2008, 10:28pm
                                                               Or better, do they have the free will to use them? Morthoron 1105 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:29pm
                               Collapse Men, Elves and the Music Voronwë_the_Faithful 1125 1 Aug 26 2008, 11:03pm
                                   That is exactly what I have been saying a.s. 1123 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:55am
                       Collapse Yes buts. Elves have free will. Darkstone 1093 20 Aug 27 2008, 6:02pm
                           Collapse Although Galadriel's fall Beren IV 1087 5 Aug 27 2008, 6:17pm
                               Collapse The most sinful Elves Darkstone 1068 4 Aug 27 2008, 6:33pm
                                   Collapse So what did the three 'C's look like? Beren IV 1149 3 Aug 27 2008, 6:42pm
                                       Probably still pretty fair. Darkstone 1156 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:58pm
                                       Collapse Yes and No Dreamdeer 1207 1 Aug 27 2008, 8:15pm
                                           What a lovely image visualweasel 1136 0 Aug 27 2008, 9:15pm
                           Well said, and I agree. // visualweasel 1065 0 Aug 27 2008, 6:24pm
                           Collapse if they cannot go to Hell, they do not have free will a.s. 1146 12 Aug 27 2008, 6:54pm
                               Collapse So do The Elect have free will? Darkstone 1275 3 Aug 27 2008, 7:33pm
                                   Collapse I don't know. I think so, but a.s. 1273 2 Aug 27 2008, 11:23pm
                                       Collapse Please don't be so hard on yourself, "a.s."! Aelfwine 1115 1 Aug 28 2008, 12:00am
                                           You are a nice guy, aelf :-) a.s. 1104 0 Aug 28 2008, 12:18am
                               Collapse I disagree fundamentally, but we can still be friends :) visualweasel 1153 1 Aug 27 2008, 9:27pm
                                   it would depend upon how you define free will a.s. 1113 0 Aug 27 2008, 10:42pm
                               Collapse Angels in the apocrypha Beren IV 1076 5 Aug 28 2008, 2:45am
                                   Collapse The Dark Elf recalls his Catholic education... Morthoron 1102 4 Aug 28 2008, 3:51am
                                       Collapse Er... Aelfwine 1233 3 Aug 28 2008, 12:37pm
                                           Collapse To elucidate... Morthoron 1169 2 Aug 28 2008, 4:09pm
                                               Collapse You were quite clear. Aelfwine 1277 1 Aug 28 2008, 6:59pm
                                                   Let's agree to disagree then... Morthoron 1128 0 Aug 28 2008, 9:54pm
           Collapse Aragorn did have free will. Dreamdeer 1112 2 Aug 26 2008, 3:26pm
               Collapse And THAT is the point I've been trying to make! Beren IV 1131 1 Aug 26 2008, 7:38pm
                   Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more... Morthoron 1319 0 Aug 26 2008, 10:06pm
       Collapse It depends on your perspective. Curious 879 3 Mar 22 2009, 5:17pm
           Collapse If I understand you, then I disagree :) visualweasel 880 2 Mar 23 2009, 2:00pm
               Collapse I misspoke. Curious 869 1 Mar 23 2009, 3:15pm
                   Agreed! :) // visualweasel 1042 0 Mar 23 2009, 3:18pm

  Expand entire thread **Unfinished Tales Discussion - Disaster of the Gladden Fields noWizardme 4250 154 Mar 6, 8:28am Jump to last post in thread (by Plurmo)

  Expand entire thread It's Tolkien Reading Day! Post your ABCs of Tolkien here. N.E. Brigand 46613 148 Apr 4 2010, 7:52pm Jump to last post in thread (by Compa_Mighty)

  Expand entire thread Volunteers for next few Silmarillion chapters? CuriousG 2027 141 Apr 18 2013, 10:52am Jump to last post in thread (by Maciliel)

  Expand entire thread **CoH Discussion** I. The Childhood of Túrin: 1. Ancestry squire 8636 134 Jun 28 2007, 5:47am Jump to last post in thread (by Daughter of Nienna)

  Expand entire thread Silmarillion Chapter 13: Of the Return of the Noldor Brethil 7813 132 May 22 2013, 1:10pm Jump to last post in thread (by Brethil)

  Expand entire thread Some confusing (to me) issues about the Power(s) of the Ring and Isildur Brethil 10212 129 Apr 3 2013, 6:04pm Jump to last post in thread (by CuriousG)

  Expand entire thread New Reading Discussion anytime soon? Nuradar 2597 128 Sep 15 2013, 11:19pm Jump to last post in thread (by Hamfast Gamgee)

  Expand entire thread Book I, Chapter 11, “A Knife in the Dark”: Are Black Riders Wimps? Curious 12775 128 Sep 4 2010, 9:40pm Jump to last post in thread (by Elizabeth)
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