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Expand entire thread Sticky: How Best to Contact an Admin for Help Kyriel 32051 2 Jun 26 2011, 9:29pm Jump to last post in thread (by tolkiennerd)

  Sticky: Thread Locked Welcome to Main Altaira 36144 0 Dec 28 2006, 3:02am Jump to last post in thread (by Altaira)

  Expand entire thread New Line Cinema Sued by Tolkein Estate (over film profits...) JRandomRohirrim 27367 341 Feb 20 2008, 8:23am Jump to last post in thread (by AinurOlorin)

  Expand entire thread Tolkien Estate HATES these movies? DemoElite 36428 244 Sep 5 2012, 5:57pm Jump to last post in thread (by JWPlatt)

  Expand entire thread Gandalf's sexuality? McKellen's comments _V_ 9793 205 Jan 19 2009, 12:53am Jump to last post in thread (by Rivendweller)

Expand entire thread Instructions for ordering Map Prints - deadline October 12 entmaiden 12499 194 Apr 8 2008, 4:18pm Jump to last post in thread (by entmaiden)

  Expand entire thread A Conspiracy Unmasked entmaiden 16688 178 Sep 29 2007, 9:43pm Jump to last post in thread (by Patty)

  Expand entire thread I've got my map! Eledhwen 4717 164 Nov 12 2007, 10:51pm Jump to last post in thread (by entmaiden)

  Expand entire thread **Founders Day - Madlib Oiotįri 2727 158 Apr 29 2011, 12:37am Jump to last post in thread (by GAndyalf)

  Expand entire thread Books or Movie? sphdle1 5270 151 Jul 15 2008, 5:00pm Jump to last post in thread (by sphdle1)

  Expand entire thread How about a Mad Lib? Alassėa Eruvande 2403 131 Jul 19 2011, 1:11pm Jump to last post in thread (by weaver)

  Expand entire thread An Unexpected Party - Chat with PJ and GDT!!! Altaira 14225 131 May 24 2008, 7:51pm Jump to last post in thread (by Gethsemane)

  Collapse *WISE Passage of the Day* No. 3 - The Pity of Bilbo Advising Elf 897 127 Apr 10 2007, 5:12pm Jump to last post in thread (by mae govannen)
       Collapse Pity can be seen as condescending, however. Curious 269 54 Apr 10 2007, 6:41pm
           Collapse Well... Darkstone 238 31 Apr 10 2007, 7:01pm
               Collapse Responsibility and redemption. Advising Elf 223 15 Apr 10 2007, 8:59pm
                   Collapse I have to disagree FarFromHome 217 11 Apr 10 2007, 9:13pm
                       Collapse Wow! A bit harsh on Gandalf, no? Curious 226 9 Apr 10 2007, 9:33pm
                           Collapse Well, yes FarFromHome 211 5 Apr 10 2007, 10:18pm
                               Collapse How about humble himself? Curious 211 1 Apr 10 2007, 11:08pm
                                   I quite agree with you here... mae govannen 83 0 Apr 13 2007, 8:56am
                               Collapse I don't think that it is huiliation Daughter of Nienna 145 2 Apr 11 2007, 6:38am
                                   Collapse Your point is excellent Ugly Troll 102 1 Apr 12 2007, 1:17am
                                       There is no such thing as instant quick fixes Daughter of Nienna 156 0 Apr 12 2007, 3:44am
                           Collapse But didn't Gandalf take the others grammaboodawg 74 2 Apr 12 2007, 4:51pm
                               Collapse Exactly. Curious 67 1 Apr 12 2007, 5:26pm
                                   And Beregond. grammaboodawg 70 0 Apr 12 2007, 6:44pm
                       When the person's problem is primarily pride, mae govannen 73 0 Apr 13 2007, 11:12am
                   Collapse True Darkstone 205 1 Apr 10 2007, 9:22pm
                       And sometimes it is beyond any earthly power / Daughter of Nienna 123 0 Apr 11 2007, 6:40am
                   Quite right; said something similar just now myself, mae govannen 93 0 Apr 13 2007, 11:33am
               Collapse There is some redemption in Tolkien's world. Curious 208 8 Apr 10 2007, 9:20pm
                   Collapse But... Darkstone 200 7 Apr 10 2007, 9:26pm
                       Collapse Not every redemption Curious 186 6 Apr 10 2007, 9:43pm
                           Collapse But... Darkstone 194 5 Apr 10 2007, 9:48pm
                               As I said above, Curious 187 0 Apr 10 2007, 10:11pm
                               Collapse What about Gollum?! ? mae govannen 127 3 Apr 11 2007, 7:49am
                                   Collapse Gollum was never redeemed. Advising Elf 168 1 Apr 11 2007, 1:14pm
                                       Well, it would seem Tolkien had a more nuanced opinion; mae govannen 156 0 Apr 11 2007, 2:18pm
                                   Well.... Darkstone 145 0 Apr 11 2007, 2:26pm
               Collapse The pity or mercy that's given grammaboodawg 70 5 Apr 12 2007, 4:40pm
                   Collapse Well... Darkstone 60 4 Apr 13 2007, 5:58pm
                       Collapse How is that?... Please elaborate, mae govannen 94 2 Apr 14 2007, 7:26am
                           Collapse Clarification? Darkstone 55 1 Apr 16 2007, 1:35pm
                               Please re-read carefully what I said mae govannen 44 0 Apr 17 2007, 11:31am
                       "... willing to offer... " grammaboodawg 88 0 Apr 14 2007, 8:58am
           Collapse A brief reply Advising Elf 211 1 Apr 10 2007, 8:53pm
               The Professor knew his words. Curious 197 0 Apr 10 2007, 10:42pm
               Collapse You should get some perspective before you dismiss this concept a.s. 237 1 Apr 11 2007, 12:26am
                   Collapse See, that's the problem with the Primary World. Curious 183 6 Apr 11 2007, 12:50am
                       Collapse C'me on, in M-e too, 'not all kings and counsellors are wise father figures'!... And even nowadays, mae govannen 137 4 Apr 11 2007, 10:20am
                           Collapse I'm afraid Curious 132 3 Apr 11 2007, 11:43am
                               In your quotes, Tolkien speaks of the Hobbits as a species with visible physical differences: mae govannen 146 0 Apr 11 2007, 1:21pm
                               Collapse Tolkien's characters FarFromHome 138 1 Apr 11 2007, 4:07pm
                                   I'll agree with "idealized." Curious 119 0 Apr 11 2007, 5:26pm
                       "aroused by the misfortune of another" a.s. 150 0 Apr 11 2007, 11:18am
                   Collapse Ithink we're havaing a semantics issue here. Advising Elf 148 1 Apr 11 2007, 1:31pm
                       Collapse no it's not a.s. 150 4 Apr 11 2007, 3:29pm
                           Collapse I take it then, . . . Advising Elf 145 3 Apr 11 2007, 3:50pm
                               Collapse I have already indicated a.s. 153 2 Apr 11 2007, 4:18pm
                                   Collapse I never implied that . . . Advising Elf 171 1 Apr 11 2007, 4:38pm
                                       *readies bucket of water* Ataahua 144 0 Apr 11 2007, 8:50pm
                   Interesting post, a.s. N.E. Brigand 139 0 Apr 11 2007, 7:53pm
           Collapse Perhaps that's why movie-Frodo's pity FarFromHome 213 17 Apr 10 2007, 8:55pm
               Collapse And it is a significant departure from the book. Curious 201 12 Apr 10 2007, 10:06pm
                   Collapse That's true FarFromHome 202 11 Apr 10 2007, 10:30pm
                       Collapse Are heroes unreal? Curious 185 5 Apr 10 2007, 11:38pm
                           Collapse That's an interesting question! FarFromHome 129 4 Apr 11 2007, 6:41am
                               Collapse Tolkien 'telling only one part of the story of the "real world"'?!? mae govannen 90 3 Apr 12 2007, 9:15am
                                   Collapse You're misunderstanding my point, I think FarFromHome 72 1 Apr 12 2007, 9:38am
                                       Sorry if I did, and thank you for the clarification! :-) / mae govannen 56 0 Apr 13 2007, 11:45am
                                   I think Darkstone is on your side. Curious 72 0 Apr 12 2007, 3:12pm
                       Collapse 'Mythic heroes'??? ''Tolkien edited out...'??? What are we talking about?!? mae govannen 176 4 Apr 11 2007, 8:40am
                           Collapse where is Aragorn "flawed to start with"? a.s. 133 3 Apr 11 2007, 11:36am
                               Collapse I agree with mae govannen Ainu Laire 101 2 Apr 11 2007, 11:16pm
                                   Wonderful: you have written for me the post I needed to write !!! :-) mae govannen 79 0 Apr 12 2007, 7:28am
                                   But needing and accepting help isn't a flaw FarFromHome 96 0 Apr 12 2007, 8:58am
               Where does book-Frodo show 'cool, condescending pity'? mae govannen 151 0 Apr 11 2007, 10:35am
               Collapse The film shows the transition so well grammaboodawg 93 2 Apr 13 2007, 8:51am
                   Collapse Movie-Frodo's attitude to Gollum is quite different from the book, I think. FarFromHome 75 1 Apr 13 2007, 4:19pm
                       Perfect! grammaboodawg 49 0 Apr 14 2007, 9:03am
           Collapse Middle-earth is as complicated as the Primary World, mae govannen 86 5 Apr 12 2007, 12:43pm
               Collapse Its not just suffering that makes you great but being forced to Adanedhel 76 1 Apr 12 2007, 1:58pm
                   That's exactly it, I would say!... mae govannen 82 0 Apr 13 2007, 8:47am
               Collapse I think the inner and outer greatness, Curious 86 2 Apr 12 2007, 3:01pm
                   Collapse But WHY do they govern the Shire in the end?... Not just because mae govannen 127 1 Apr 13 2007, 4:32am
                       Well, my other post about WWII & LOTR was actually mae govannen 78 0 Apr 13 2007, 5:41am
       Collapse Moral relativism. Advising Elf 218 60 Apr 10 2007, 9:23pm
           Collapse Exactly my problem. Darkstone 221 57 Apr 10 2007, 9:29pm
               Hmm... Morwen 190 0 Apr 10 2007, 10:03pm
               Collapse We don't know if those stories are true. Curious 185 54 Apr 10 2007, 11:33pm
                   Collapse But... Darkstone 153 53 Apr 11 2007, 12:33am
                       Collapse If Saruman had not gone to the Shire Curious 156 51 Apr 11 2007, 12:54am
                           Collapse You think? Darkstone 143 50 Apr 11 2007, 1:44am
                               Collapse Is Saruman right? N.E. Brigand 130 41 Apr 11 2007, 3:07am
                                   Collapse Depends on who he's talking about. Darkstone 127 40 Apr 11 2007, 1:55pm
                                       Collapse Gandalf as Machiavelli? Curious 198 18 Apr 11 2007, 2:26pm
                                           Collapse Gandalf as Sisyphus? Darkstone 147 15 Apr 11 2007, 2:55pm
                                               Collapse I've enjoyed reading your debate FarFromHome 139 11 Apr 11 2007, 3:50pm
                                                   Collapse It makes more sense in the real world Adanedhel 129 5 Apr 11 2007, 4:23pm
                                                       Collapse That is true FarFromHome 135 3 Apr 11 2007, 4:42pm
                                                           Collapse It didn't happen in Middle earth either. Adanedhel 111 1 Apr 11 2007, 4:52pm
                                                               I'm only talking about LotR FarFromHome 95 0 Apr 11 2007, 5:42pm
                                                           Perhaps great spiritual persons you don't know yet of mae govannen 56 0 Apr 15 2007, 7:53am
                                                       Wonderfully correct... and after all, mae govannen 66 0 Apr 15 2007, 6:47am
                                                   Collapse Thanks! Darkstone 121 4 Apr 11 2007, 4:46pm
                                                       Collapse How about "idealized"? Curious 122 3 Apr 11 2007, 5:40pm
                                                           Collapse But... Darkstone 95 2 Apr 11 2007, 6:02pm
                                                               Collapse Please introduce me Curious 151 1 Apr 11 2007, 7:09pm
                                                                   Sure thing! Darkstone 151 0 Apr 11 2007, 7:22pm
                                               Collapse The 'decline of the world' is only mae govannen 106 2 Apr 14 2007, 10:04am
                                                   Collapse Well!! Darkstone 73 1 Apr 16 2007, 1:28pm
                                                       It's not an attack at all, mae govannen 58 0 Apr 17 2007, 8:48am
                                           Collapse Speaking of Machiavelli... N.E. Brigand 146 1 Apr 11 2007, 7:00pm
                                               To answer your question, no. Curious 135 0 Apr 11 2007, 8:28pm
                                       Collapse So, it seems to all boil down to this: mae govannen 88 20 Apr 12 2007, 3:50pm
                                           Collapse Nope. Darkstone 82 19 Apr 12 2007, 7:25pm
                                               Collapse Sorry, I do apologise for getting all worked up...! mae govannen 103 15 Apr 13 2007, 8:24am
                                                   Collapse No problemio Darkstone 107 14 Apr 13 2007, 2:58pm
                                                       Collapse Thanks for this; but, re. your last question... what say YOU? / mae govannen 52 7 Apr 13 2007, 3:17pm
                                                           Collapse Well... Darkstone 70 6 Apr 13 2007, 4:06pm
                                                               Collapse True enough Adanedhel 88 5 Apr 13 2007, 7:24pm
                                                                   Collapse Freedom of will FarFromHome 62 2 Apr 13 2007, 8:12pm
                                                                       Collapse "Lack of alternatives clears the mind." Advising Elf 58 1 Apr 13 2007, 8:40pm
                                                                           That's exactly my point FarFromHome 72 0 Apr 13 2007, 8:50pm
                                                                   You're getting way of ahead of me! // ;o) Advising Elf 51 0 Apr 13 2007, 8:20pm
                                                                   Perfect reply... I would only add that mae govannen 65 0 Apr 14 2007, 10:54am
                                                       Collapse To be wise is not to be cruel. Advising Elf 79 5 Apr 13 2007, 8:09pm
                                                           Collapse Dunno. Darkstone 66 3 Apr 13 2007, 9:17pm
                                                               Oh my! Saruman relented?! mae govannen 79 0 Apr 14 2007, 6:51am
                                                               Collapse He is deepely affected, but his pride still rears up. Advising Elf 98 1 Apr 16 2007, 12:47pm
                                                                   Well, we're saying two interesting variations of the same thing, mae govannen 234 0 Apr 17 2007, 12:04pm
                                                           Hear, hear! I agree fully. mae govannen 66 0 Apr 14 2007, 7:50am
                                               Collapse {{hugs Darkstone}} Proof! LotR is great literature!!! dernwyn 87 1 Apr 13 2007, 10:54am
                                                   Ooops! Forgot to do and say that to Darkstone myself!... mae govannen 107 0 Apr 13 2007, 11:24am
                                               Yep. Curious 61 0 Apr 13 2007, 10:07pm
                               Collapse It sounds like you're a fan of Bored of the Rings. Curious 157 7 Apr 11 2007, 11:17am
                                   Collapse Gandalf as a theodicean? Darkstone 120 3 Apr 11 2007, 1:37pm
                                       Collapse Yes, they are human Curious 106 1 Apr 11 2007, 2:17pm
                                           Well.... Darkstone 121 0 Apr 11 2007, 3:08pm
                                       Frodo as a Candide figure FarFromHome 94 0 Apr 12 2007, 8:20pm
                                   Collapse That's OK so long as you've got Gandalf's intuition handy. L. Ron Halfelven 173 2 Apr 11 2007, 2:50pm
                                       Intuition is not only for the Gandalfs... mae govannen 85 0 Apr 15 2007, 5:17am
                                       I forgot to add that mae govannen 47 0 Apr 15 2007, 5:31am
                       The apparent result is not the only one... mae govannen 62 0 Apr 14 2007, 8:07am
               That's the exact thing I was avoiding until the next post.// Advising Elf 91 0 Apr 11 2007, 1:37pm
           I'm glad someone is at last saying this... And the kind of hierarchy mae govannen 120 0 Apr 11 2007, 12:08pm
           Or to quote Robert Heinlein, Curious 108 0 Apr 11 2007, 1:17pm
       Collapse ownership Ciars 132 5 Apr 11 2007, 5:56pm
           Very interesting! Darkstone 95 0 Apr 11 2007, 6:10pm
           Collapse I just mean that if I can Adanedhel 108 1 Apr 11 2007, 6:10pm
               Definitely so, IMO. mae govannen 58 0 Apr 12 2007, 12:54pm
           Collapse Bilbo wasn't redeemed by his Pity. . . Advising Elf 128 1 Apr 11 2007, 6:26pm
               Maybe Ciars 116 0 Apr 11 2007, 6:33pm
       Bilbo had the same reaction as Frodo grammaboodawg 66 0 Apr 12 2007, 4:29pm
       Collapse Thank you for this continuing series, by the way. Curious 86 1 Apr 13 2007, 11:58am
           You're welcome. Advising Elf 39 0 Apr 16 2007, 2:06pm
       Collapse "Not to strike without need" linkin-artelf 53 1 Apr 14 2007, 10:18pm
           'You have not seen him.' mae govannen 81 0 Apr 15 2007, 7:13am

  Expand entire thread Middle Earth Theme Park sphdle1 4250 126 Jul 10 2008, 3:56pm Jump to last post in thread (by sphdle1)

  Expand entire thread Christian Symbolism in LOTR arphen 4439 124 Jul 26 2008, 5:52pm Jump to last post in thread (by shadowdog)

  Expand entire thread Christopher Tolkien speaks! Voronwė_the_Faithful 16859 116 Aug 18 2012, 8:05pm Jump to last post in thread (by Bombadil)

  Expand entire thread Meanwhile, at the GDT Personnel Office... weaver 4719 112 May 20 2008, 7:07pm Jump to last post in thread (by Mar)
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