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Quickbeam's DOS Film Review: Splendid Smaug Splits Fandom?
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spymaster@theonering.net

Dec 7 2013, 5:14am

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Quickbeam's DOS Film Review: Splendid Smaug Splits Fandom? Can't Post

hobbit_the_desolation_of_smaug_ver16_xlg[Editor's Note: Fear not, dear readers, TORn staffer Quickbeam presents our first official review of DOS *spoiler-free* until loudly noted in the later section (with plenty of buffer space) where inquisitive minds may read further with spoiler-iffic abandon.]
The Great Schism: Splendid Smaug Splits Fandom?

or

Hobbit Version 2.0: Jackson Does it Differently



I know it's been a long year to wait. Ringer fans are going into 'The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug' with high hopes for another thrilling chapter in the ongoing saga adapted by our fellow fan, Peter Jackson. Indeed it is thrilling. And indeed it bears all the hallmarks of a P.J. film, replete with energetic action set pieces and gorgeously realized creatures and places that only cinema can properly provide to our senses.

Be forewarned Book Fans, because of the extent DOS deviates from J.R.R. Tolkien's original, you can bet your bottom dollar there will be a very vocal fan reaction, if not an outright scream of frustration from one or two up in the balcony. The filmmakers have certainly delivered the goods; it is a very enjoyable movie that pretty much blows the audience away with well-crafted storytelling. It is by turns breathlessly paced and frightening and funny and gorgeous (Smaug especially has much of his "muchness"). But by the end credits, it no longer resembles the book you read as a kid, not by a long shot.




Which is something I must mention up front because of the laborious efforts towards fidelity in 'An Unexpected Journey.' In fact, much of the LOTR Trilogy was a concentrated effort to (mostly) honor the source material. True, there were odd bits that didn't ring true to Tolkien; like Faramir dragging the hobbits to Osgiliath and Frodo sending Sam home (piffle) but what happens in DOS is just completely off the rails, especially in the third act.



You guys certainly got a ton of fan-service with AUJ -- you got to linger in Bag End for nearly an hour before the adventure begins, you got Dwarven singing, Chip the Glasses merriment, you got yourself a perfect Riddles in the Dark sequence and more geeky exposition from the White Council. THAT was all fan-service; and undoubtedly those were the highlights of AUJ for me. I guess that tells you Hobbit Sky Movieswhat kind of Ringer fan I am; the meandering and pleasantries that others complained about, well, I was grateful for. Last year I called AUJ "a leisurely Sunday drive, with the top down." But the reverential approach has now left the filmmakers, evidently, as P.J. has been quoted in Empire as saying "I'm quite enjoying deviating from the books!" But I was still a bit surprised at how far afield things actually went here... This stuff *really* deviates. I also found some repetition of things we've seen in LOTR that gave me pause.




What's best about the 2nd Hobbit installment? A script teeming with incident and great characters. An opening prologue that makes you want to read the Appendices in LOTR again. The confident hand of the Editors and the Director while taking these characters deeper into peril. Fabulous acting from several new performers (especially Luke Evans as Bard, Stephen Fry as the Master of Lake-town, and a returning Orlando Bloom, looking beefier actually). A really good and ultimately too brief turn from Mikael Persbrandt as Beorn. Spiders attacking with superb "gotcha!" moments. A rollicking water flume ride with Barrels Out of Bond, executed with precision. Particularly intriguing are Dol Guldur, the Elven-king's Halls and certainly the Lake-town environments; which are all realized with ass-kicking verisimilitude.



 

the-hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-wallpapers-hd-backgrounds1There is so much to enjoy here from the technical side -- the cinematography, music, effects, sound design. You know WETA has the Midas touch -- and all that gold Bilbo walks around on within the halls of Erebor really indicates that Richard Taylor and artists such as Daniel Falconer have perfected their craft. The incredibly appealing atmosphere of Thranduil's halls; the way shafts of light dance among "tree columns" while the rushing Forest River flows right under extended walkways; the noticeable difference between how Dwarves live underground (Moria) versus how Elves do it -- these are the great aesthetic pleasures to be savored.




Special praise where it's due: the animators who worked on Smaug deserve a new award we haven't invented yet. As much fun as we had seeing him on the side of Air New Zealand's jet, the cinematic experience of Smaug is unforgettable. His silky smooth Benedict Cumberbatch-fueled voice is delicious. Witness the greatest ego Tolkien ever created -- and then witness Martin Freeman walking around the dragon's hoard like a tiny mouse. Yet Bilbo has a great deal of pluck and that's why we love him. Again, when he is offscreen you really want him back; the more of him the better. The Dwarves are still getting dialogue at the same level as in AUJ (mostly Thorin, Balin, and Bofur). Alack, poor Bombur has no lines (but a nice shining moment or two) and Bifur doesn't even give us any ancient Khuzdul. Drat..... I really like what William Kircher has been doing.



300891id6a_TheHobbit_TDOS_Tauriel_BusShelter_48inW_x_70inH.indd


I was already comfortable with the addition of new female elf Tauriel (a winning Evangeline Lilly) but I didn't expect the story to go where it did. Her confidence is different than Legolas' bravery, and her willingness to listen to someone from a different walk of life seems to be the key to understanding her raison d'etre. Spoilers will be discussed after a break -- but I expect an eye-opening conversation/ argument will rage within the ranks of Tolkien fandom after this film's release. If you can relax and enjoy the ride -- you'll be fine. The filmmakers confidently take us into uncharted territory, yet still within Middle-earth. How far are you willing to go on this unexpected detour?





DOS is the litmus test that will separate Book Fans from Movie Fans more distinctly than anything before it, or I'll eat my knickers. Casual movie fans will embrace this film rigorously. It's a slam dunk for them. Those Ringers longing for a properly buttoned-up faithful adaptation of 'The Hobbit,' one that resembles the printed page, may have a different response. I quite enjoyed everything I saw (up to a point) and then admittedly found myself distracted by the story changes -- which I suppose couldn't be helped considering my deep involvement with Tolkien since I was young. I had to stop reacting to it like "What a perversion of the story!" so that my thoughts could be more "The Dude abides, and so does Smaug."





If it sounds like I am of two minds about 'The Desolation of Smaug' I probably am. The Smeagol side of me was delighted over and over again while munching popcorn and spilling drinks on myself when action scenes caught me off gaurd (Gakk! Spiders! Aghhh!). But the Gollum side of me came out during the final 20 minutes because of so many deviations. I found myself wondering where the heck we will end up in the final film: 'There and Back Again.' Anything... and I mean *anything*... is possible. Peter Jackson and Co. have shown chutzpah by swerving so far around the bend and being so unafraid to take liberties with the text. But your level of pleasure with what you get may be directly determined by your ability to be flexible.



An interesting time to be a Ringer, that's for sure!



Much too hasty,

Quickbeam



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Clifford Broadway, contributor and Senior Staff to TheOneRing.net, co-hosts the weekly live webcast TORn TUESDAY, featuring live chat with stars, special guests, and fellow Ringer fans. Follow Quickbeam on Twitter @quickbeam2000

Follow TheOneRing.net @theoneringnet

Like us on www.facebook.com/theoneringnet

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This ends the spoiler-free section of the review. Scroll down for more.

STOP READING NOW IF YOU DONT WANT SPOILERS.

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*Last chance!* Do you want to enjoy the movie fresh on its own terms or not?
LAST WARNING BEFORE SPOILER CITY

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Okay here we go. This is where I can really talk about some of the specific glories (and problems) that a Tolkien fan will encounter while watching 'The Desolation of Smaug.'


41yl2AgXxbL



This might sound a bit stream-of-consciousness but bear with me.




The opening prologue features Thorin Oakenshield arriving in Bree and getting a fire lit under his arse by Gandalf. It's purely from Appendix A: Part III, DURIN'S FOLK, pp. 358-359 in the Houghton Mifflin "Red Leather" single-volume edition. This scene surprised me because of all the cool prologues we have seen in P.J's films, this one was dialogue-heavy and quiet. No climactic flashback of a falling Balrog. Then it cuts to the exact spot where we left our characters at the end of AUJ with a title card: "12 months later." This was a really nice bit. There's the same cute black cat in The Prancing Pony as you saw in FOTR but Barliman Butterbur is certainly not there (nor would he be at that time).




The arrival of Beorn in gigantic angry bear shape is quickly escalated to a mini-chase scene: Thorin & Company are quite dangerous over short distances, as any fan knows, they are natural sprinters. They run right into Beorn's house and bolt themselves in for safety. So here is the first of many deviations from the book; wherein you'd get a chuckle at the slow two-by-two introductions of the dwarves as engineered by Gandalf. We see Beorn-as-bear protecting the house all night as the bloodthirsty Azog and his pack watch intently from nearby trees. We get to meet him in human form the next morning - and the brevity of his transformation back to human seems, well, too brief for my taste. I was hoping for something less subtle. He is a really cool character and I wanted to see more of him. I had no fear of "the mullet" that we were warned about many weeks ago, he looks like a towering man with a crazy mane of hair/fur down his back. The over-sized bumblebees are wonderful too.




We move quickly on to Mirkwood which is also splendidly realized. As Gandalf takes his leave of the Company, I expected a lot more angry blowback from the Dwarves, but strangely they don't seem to protest at all. As Gandalf finds the Elf-path and carefully inspects the surroundings, he also finds the Eye of Sauron graffiti from Orcs that have recently desecrated the Elvish sculptures nearby -- a very tantalizing foreshadowing. We don't get the bit where Bombur falls into the Enchanted Stream and falls asleep -- although I have been told by certain unnamed persons that that was indeed shot -- eventually to be cut for the theatrical release. Everything about how Mirkwood and the spiders were handled was a thrilling joy. Especially noteworthy is how Bilbo's use of the Ring imparts upon him a sudden understanding of the spiders' speech.




When Bilbo drops the Ring and then has to fight his way to the forest floor to retrieve it, something alarming happens. A giant centipede-looking thing comes out from under the tree to attack, and then Bilbo goes sort of berzerk. He attacks with blinding ferocity, staring at the downed creature, retrieving his Ring and saying but one word: "Mine" with a desperation that's palpable. Seeing where they are going with this early influence of the Ring is cool.




[caption id="attachment_83181" align="alignright" width="206"]Thranduil, King of the Wood-elves. Thranduil, King of the Wood-elves.[/caption]

 

Enter Lee Pace and his drop-dead gorgeous eyebrows. Actually more interesting is the how the art department came up with a feeling of breathable, hospitable, and artful surroundings in a subterranean area that has been molded by centuries of Elven craftsmanship married to the natural lay of the land. This ain't your typical Dwarven underground hideout, that's for sure. A strange thing happens to Thranduil's face as he leans in close to interrogate / toy with Thorin -- he describes his own familiarity with dragons as half of his face "seems to dissolve" showing a horrifying wound, as if half of his face were completely scarred and gaping, yet he seems to possess some kind of "glamour spell" that makes him look untouched.




Tauriel shows up and we get explicit dialogue letting us know that Legolas wants to get all gooey and sugary with her, but Daddy won't allow it. Reminds me of how a young J.R.R. Tolkien was forbidden by his Catholic priest foster father to start a courtship with Edith, who was Protestant. As Tauriel gets a little closer to Kili (ably played by Aiden Turner) things get radical. The fact is that nothing has ever existed in Tolkien's works suggesting a romance across the races of Dwarves and Elves. We do see very clearly two cross-racial romances between Beren and Luthien to be echoed later by Aragorn and Arwen. But being in this particular zone of strangeness might make some purists cry foul. The two characters get a lot of dialogue while Kili is in his prison cell and she comes to him for extended visits, perhaps all this screen time puts them in danger of upstaging Aragorn and Arwen! It eventually becomes the big romance/friendship (hard to tell exactly) of the whole movie. Legolas is seen eavesdropping on their budding romance, which sets his jaw on edge.







hobbit-desolation-of-smaug-ian-mckellen-gandalfOn the other side of Mirkwood, we get into a really interesting bit where Gandalf intrepidly investigates the ruins of Dol Guldur. We see him casting spells in a way never before seen, and learn that Azog gives orders to his son Bolg like any other soldier. There's extraordinary art design and execution of visual effects here, as our Grey Wizard accidentally bumps into the Necromancer. His physical form doesn't seem to be corporeal or humanoid at all, rather like a flying, attacking wisp of black nothingness. Then suddenly he is morphed into his real persona, the Lidless Eye, wreathed in flame, with a distinct Sauron shape appearing in the pupil. Super coolness galore in how they reveal him! It begs the question, however, that a face-to-face encounter with another Maiar spirit like Sauron would not result in Gandalf's death (just the destruction of his staff) but instead he is left hanging in a cage to watch the newest armies of the Enemy marching away. Of course, Gandalf's still left alive for someone to rescue him in film 3.

 

 

The Barrels Out of Bond sequence is just the BEST THING. What a standout action sequence! Guaranteed gasps and laughs before it's over. Go #TeamBombur! I notice how several "gentle and quiet" moments from the book have been transformed into heightened chase scenes with the Action Volume cranked way up. So many Orcs get killed / decapitated in such funny and innovative ways. The excitement is only somewhat curbed by the fact none of our heroes die. Again a difference between LOTR and these Hobbit films is the lack of any single character facing mortality.




Wait, I spoke to soon, after we arrive in Lake-town a certain arrow wound that Kili suffers is revealed to be poisonous. He will be the one character who's story here actually brings him closest to death (even the others fare better against Smaug). In what seems to me a bit of a needless parallel with Frodo being rescued and healed after Weathertop, this subplot eventually brings Tauriel to Lake-town (amid Azog sending his son Bolg to hunt them all down and Legolas fighting them outside) who then heals Kili with the *athelas* plant. We even hear Bofur repeat the same lines that Sam has: "Kingsfoil? Aye, it's a weed!" She replies as Aragorn did, and uses it to heal Kili with a floating white light around her just like Arwen had. I am convinced that it might not be such a good idea to recreate exact repeats of the same memorable moments from the LOTR Triilogy. Why doesn't P.J. just keep making new memorable moments that belong solely to 'The Hobbit?'




There's also an desolation-of-smaug-dragoneye-opening decision that Thorin & Company are split up! Only 9 of the Dwarves leave Lake-town to go north to Erebor. Fili, Oin and Bofur stay behind (mostly to tend to Kili who is so sick, Thorin refuses to let him come any further). I warned you, this adaptation takes some radical departures. I stopped being miffed by these changes by the time the Company found their way up the secret stairs outside the Lonely Mountain. It made me think to myself while watching: "Ok, just roll with it. This is Hobbit Version 2.0 and it will work out fine."




Well, we do get the best of all possible movie dragons, I have to admit. A great and altogether convincing creature of cinema history, this is a Smaug for the ages. But what made me crazy was the "alternative dragon catching plot" that is somehow concocted by Thorin. Instead of Bilbo learning more useful information and sharing it with the thrush as the dragon flies away, all 9 of the Dwarves elect to go right inside and see what's up while Smaug and Bilbo are still inside. They engage in several minutes of cat-and-mouse dodging while the great fire-drake tries unsuccessfully to fry them all, and then comes a whole crazy scheme involving the lighting of great forges, hundreds of thousands of gallons of molten gold, quick-flash bombs hastily assembled using Dwarven chemistry sets, Thorin running around with his "heroic wheelbarrow," and an attempt to make Smaug the Golden a 100% literal statement. Yes, imagine a gilded gold dragon. It's a large and complicated set piece that left me scratching my head. I mean, nobody saw this coming, I never could have imagined Thorin himself openly speaking to Smaug and taunting him with "slug" and other such insults.




Better check your head at the door, because this last one is the kicker spoiler: Smaug does not die at the end of this film.




DOS is a film that is eager to show how different it is than 'The Two Towers' just by the editing at the end. There are no swooping camera shots to go back and visit with all our characters before the closing nor is there a weeping string section and angelic voices. There is no big, teary monologue from Sam or another character giving us gallons of sentiment, shot in slow motion, feeding us a reason to believe in the Goodness of the Cause. Instead this climactic ending is structured like an action-picture cliffhanger, going and going and going right to the very last shot of Smaug flying away -- Bilbo looks up at the sky appalled and says: "What have we done?" and then BAM -- cut to black. Roll end credits. The audience has just been coaxed to the very edge, only to be forced to wait til next year to see if they even kill the damn thing. A rather frustrating ending for me. I'll admit that seeing the dragon meet his demise was something I felt the story needed for a really satisfactory ending. That was the experience I wanted and expected but evidently it's all about defying expectations.




Perhaps it was the shrewdest thing the filmmakers and Warner Bros. could have possibly done. Throughout the whole year of 2013, Smaug was kept super secret seemingly forever right up to the film's release, until we got such a frightening glimpse in that second trailer. Well, now, for next year it's clear the studio will have all the images of Smaug they want available for marketing purposes. So that's why he is alive I guess.




So for TABA next year, I am going to throw all expectations out the window. The filmmakers have boldly declared they don't mind the risk of alienating Purists or Book Fans by pulling and stretching 'The Hobbit' on a taffy machine until it's almost unrecognizable.




Let's wait and see what mischief they cook up in December 2014.



Much too hasty,

Quickbeam


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Dec 8 2013, 12:49pm)


Arannir
Doriath


Dec 7 2013, 10:24am

Post #2 of 78 (2843 views)
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Very well written. [In reply to] Can't Post

I love how you manage to write down the issues with the deviations and still are able to judge the movie on movie-merits. Also that you speak about flexibility and do not automatically assume that every Tolkien lover will not like the deviations - something that does not sit well with me here sometimes is that some people seem to accuse people having sympathy for the deviations as not being faithful enough for our beloved Professor or not having understood the "real" core of the canon - a notion I really get angry about.

Your review did not go in either of these directions and was a true tour de force of balance without losing judgment, thanks for that Quickbeam.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 10:25am)


NecromancerRising
Hithlum

Dec 7 2013, 10:36am

Post #3 of 78 (2787 views)
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A really really great review [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this is my favourite review so far.Detailed and brilliantly written.Thanks QuickbeamSmile


Joe20
Menegroth


Dec 7 2013, 10:51am

Post #4 of 78 (2779 views)
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Fantastic review. [In reply to] Can't Post

Fair and balanced stuff.

While the books holds a special place in my heart, I am by no means a purist and I am open to changes so long as they serve a purpose. So I'm anxious to see how I react to the film. Smile


poochies
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 11:02am

Post #5 of 78 (2802 views)
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SPOILERS......Then why did they call the movie ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Desolation of Smaug??? If it ended with Smaug not desolated?


BornOutOfTheWest
Ossiriand


Dec 7 2013, 11:03am

Post #6 of 78 (2738 views)
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Great, insightful thoughts, [In reply to] Can't Post

An enjoyable read Quickbeam, thanks! Still looking forward to some of PJ's additions. My only concerns raised by this review and a few others, are a couple of scenes. Firstly, I'm not liking the sound of the Tauriel/Kili/Legolas love triangle - bit generic/cliche sounding. Finally, just concerned about the ending sequence between the Dwarves and Smaug - oh why PJ couldn't you have stuck to the book? Anyway, I'll have to make up my own mind in 6 days time Laugh



Olorin2607
Menegroth


Dec 7 2013, 11:05am

Post #7 of 78 (2727 views)
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Because it refers to the wasteland around Erebor Smaug has caused. [In reply to] Can't Post

//


Olorin2607
Menegroth


Dec 7 2013, 11:06am

Post #8 of 78 (2718 views)
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Really great review. [In reply to] Can't Post

Now I want to speak to dormouse and tell her that I was right. Wink haha


poochies
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 11:13am

Post #9 of 78 (2697 views)
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oh I see ... the desolation could be looked at in two differnet ways :-) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Arannir
Doriath


Dec 7 2013, 11:19am

Post #10 of 78 (2680 views)
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Me too... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... And in the end, the great professor always wanted to create a mythology. And in a way this working with the texts and materials, additions inlcuded, is what humanity has done to its great legends over three thousand years.

I see it as a compliment to Tolkien, even if he might not agree with certain things.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


DavidDevant
Menegroth

Dec 7 2013, 11:37am

Post #11 of 78 (2761 views)
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Jolly good - sounds like some clearer choices have been made here than in AUJ. [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspect this will be a rather more successful film. I do rather wish we could spend a little less time on the reductive lists of spot-the-difference between these films and the imagined films that people falsely believe they have in their own heads. It's rather like constantly going into a contemporary art gallery and constantly being astounded that the sunflowers don't look like the ones in your garden!

Why not chat about what the film has to say about the story? For example, I have read lots of posts, patiently explaining to others that the true villain of the Hobbit is not Smaug or Sauron but greed and pride. So does a film where Thorin seemingly denies the warnings of Thranduil and imagines he will fare better against a dragon, where he buys the support of the Master at the risk of his people, where he confronts Bard (who has his own kingdom he could "reclaim" but also has children to look after as a counterpoint of real vs imagined responsibility) and where Thorin, ultimately, not only awakens a monstrous personification of greed and pride but coats it in gold, armours it and sends it off to kill his heirs in Laketown, have anything to say about the themes of the Hobbit?

Well then again that's probably not awfully interesting compared to the question of whether Bombur falling asleep is in the EE or not.


BartTheBowman
Lindon

Dec 7 2013, 12:00pm

Post #12 of 78 (2638 views)
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Great post! [In reply to] Can't Post

It reminds me of a discussion within art science about Van Gogh's "shoes": There are those who claimed that the painting clearly represented the personal shoes of Van Gogh, there are others who see it as an enunciation of rurality, simplicity, rootednes etc. - What a boring and conservative way of looking at art the former is!
Forgive my bad English Blush


sauget.diblosio
Dor-Lomin


Dec 7 2013, 12:02pm

Post #13 of 78 (2677 views)
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So not only do we get a Tauriel/Legolas romance, [In reply to] Can't Post

we also get a jealous Legolas? Ugh.


Arannir
Doriath


Dec 7 2013, 12:10pm

Post #14 of 78 (2620 views)
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Very good post. [In reply to] Can't Post

I also am astounded sometimes what is deemed "in the spirit of Tolkien" and what not.

As I said above, I think PJ handles this similar to how humanity has handeled its great mythologies, fairytales and legends over the last three thousand years. And he does it much more closely so than most modern versions of mythologies.

Things like the themes of greed and pride who mention are very nicely handeled so far imho... So are the characters. That is imho much more important to me than the imho bizarre and un-tolkienesque emphasis on hierarchies, heritage lines or even some plot details.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Orc Berserker
Nevrast


Dec 7 2013, 12:12pm

Post #15 of 78 (2609 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

You're absolutely right about Greed and Pride being the 'enemy' in The Hobbit. I think PJ, Fran, and Phillipa have stuck to this theme. I can't wait to see Thorin's descent into madness and then his glorious redemption.

Thematically, I don't think they are deviating that much at all. We always knew PJ would expand and create some extra action scenes from what's in the book.

Plus I think we will get more 'book bits' in the EE. There are images of the Dwarves in Mirkwood and you can clearly see some of them carrying Bombur in the background, so they definitely filmed it. I'd put money on that being in the EE.

I hope there is more Bolg and Beorn in the EE, it would be a nice chance for some more development before the BO5A.


TheFlayedMan
Ossiriand


Dec 7 2013, 12:15pm

Post #16 of 78 (2622 views)
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Great review, Quickbeam. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's definitely the fairest and most insightful one I have seen so far, and I can't say I'm surprised. Thanks!

Even the smallest person can change the course of the future.


Eadignes
Lindon

Dec 7 2013, 12:59pm

Post #17 of 78 (2563 views)
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Thank you for this balanced review [In reply to] Can't Post

Great review, i am sad to say it but i did fear this was going to be the case, a peter jackson rewrite to fit all 6 movies into one box.
I did enjoy AUJ and will likey enjoy DOS , because peter jackson is a very good movie maker.
But to me it will not be the hobbit and that is how i will watch it, just a good movie.
All the people posting re the greed theme that Peter jackson has kept from the hobbit could well fit with a film company making three movies out of a small child bedtime tale!
Also i cannot wait to watch Sloth from the goonies riding his white warg!
So thank you quickbeam for the review, one of the only reviews i was bothered to read.


lidlessEye
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 1:20pm

Post #18 of 78 (2515 views)
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yeah...right... [In reply to] Can't Post

then again, another reviewer told, that you won't see the dwarves wandering through the desolated dale.
just a shot down from the hill and balun's quote - thats is
just from the lake to the doorstep in no time.


The Red Avenger
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 1:22pm

Post #19 of 78 (2521 views)
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Good balanced review. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've said it before I'll say it again, what works in a book does not necessarily work in a movie or other adaptation and the key word is adaptation.
I never understand the Purist view - the book will always be the book, Why do you want to see a page by page faithful rendition? It will never be as good as the one in your head. You already have that.
A lot of Purists would absolutely balk at the letter Tolkien himself wrote to the film company that was thinking of making a film version in the 60's. He suggested sweeping changes, cutting out Rohan completely, could you imagine that? So let's be grateful that these films are being made and if you don't like all of them but do like parts, download a free video editor and make your own version from the bits you do like.
I don't want to see a page by page adaptation I want to be entertained and a little surprised. As long as the major beats of the book are there and in the right order it doesn't really matter how we get there. There's still going to be Beorn, Mirkwood, Spiders, Elvenkingdom, Barrells, Laketown, Mountain and Smaug. What more do people want?


drewster81
Lindon

Dec 7 2013, 1:26pm

Post #20 of 78 (2510 views)
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Fantastic Post David [In reply to] Can't Post

I couldn't agree more. From what it sounds like, the filmmakers have truly tried to pull out the theme of greed, both with Bilbo's need for the ring, Thorin's desire for his kingdom destroying the lives of others, Thranduil's own need set against Tauriel, the Master, and so on. I've been thinking about this and appreciate that others have picked up on this, rather than if Bolg is in the movie, or if Smaug has four legs or two.


Bombadil
Gondolin


Dec 7 2013, 1:31pm

Post #21 of 78 (2502 views)
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Agreed You Rock Always, QB...Now [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby finds it
Interesting
that there
ARE...

4 Awesome Archers!
in Laketown,
when Smaug Attacks?

1. A Dwarve, Kili
2. A Man, Bard
& OUR Two Elves,

so it seems that
these Four will
be the ones
who try to
take down
Smaug!

With each on
different RoofTOPS?

AND
of course
Bard's Black Arrow
(W/ ORC poison?)
retrieved by his
son, Bain... (Running through LT IN Flames!)

Finally does the TRICK!

Bomby thinks PJ&Co
looks at all Characters
on A WhiteBoard on a Wall
...in one of PJ's Offices..

Moving them around
until..
the MOST
Satisfactory Story
is FINALLY realized on Screen!

Sorry, if
Bomby is Bump-ing
Too Far ahead...
but heck,
....much of the
ForeShadowing?

Points to this PLOTPoint.


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Dec 7 2013, 1:34pm)


BalrogTrainer
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 2:19pm

Post #22 of 78 (2415 views)
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No lines for Bombur AGAIN?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Poor Stephen Hunter. It's kind of ironic considering that, apart from Thorin (obviously), Bombur had probably the most lines of all the Dwarves in the Rankin/Bass version (with Balin and Dori being the only others who spoke more than once - if at all). Unimpressed
I'm assuming Balin and Bofur are getting the most lines because they're being played by the 2 most well-known actors among all the Dwarves?


Bombadil
Gondolin


Dec 7 2013, 2:45pm

Post #23 of 78 (2381 views)
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Bombur will get his Moments... [In reply to] Can't Post

When the Dwarves
are feeling secure
in Erebor
Smaug
gone...

Discoveries of their Actual Homes
(Thorin, Balin & Dwalin's abobes)

Bombur will discover
the Community Kitchens
of Erebor
and Serve Big Meals
FEASTING
on Elaborate Tables
and SONGS

Maybe Bombur
Recites an "EatingSong"
and Finally
we love his Voice.

Also he should KissASS
in the Bo5A


Glóin the Dark
Ossiriand

Dec 7 2013, 2:50pm

Post #24 of 78 (2372 views)
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Very disappointing not to hear him speak since... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it would appear (from the special features on the Extended Edition DVDs for An Unexpected Journey) that the actor can do rather a good Northern Irish accent.


RosieLass
Doriath


Dec 7 2013, 3:40pm

Post #25 of 78 (2354 views)
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Why do people insist that "purist" means "page by page"???? [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't!

We don't want to see every word reproduced on the screen.

We want a story that is faithful to the themes and ideas that Tolkien wrote. Not a wholesale rewrite full of unrecognizable invented junk that came out of someone else's brain.

I am enjoying these films. I love the bits that are pure Tolkien and I'm taking the non-Tolkien bits and judging them individually on their own merits.

But I will not be "grateful" just because someone is making the films.

And I don't have to "do it better myself" to validate my opinion.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

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